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Unloved Rotationals: Vagenas and Ianni

The first two rotationals were loved companions from an old club in a minor league. The French Connection was the Sounders connection between old and new. One has been taken from us. But these two are a Peter and a Patrick. One constantly derided on forums, and the other seen as surprisingly protected over a loved MLS Sounder - James Riley.

But Vagenas and Ianni are also the connection between the Sounders and the League in which they compete.  They are some of the strong attachment to the League's past, and its future.  Each was also adequate as an infrequent starter on a good club, but their futures are very different.

Star-divide

 

Peter Vagenas - Long valued by Sigi Schmid, Vagenas is the classic connector.  He is no longer agile, nor a threat on offense. His defense is primarily based in what is in his head, and not in his physical talents.  He's a solid lateral passer, a short passer.  He will not start the counter and his vision of the upcoming play is not part of "Sigi's Game" if that is defined by the rapid counter.

What he does do though is calm the team down. He starts processes, not attacks.  His vision is of a calm game - both in speed and in the attitude of the team on the pitch. As a Central Midfielder he is a decent defender.  Vagenas disrupts the long passes through the central third, and he blocks the primary lane of the opponents attack. He will never be glamorous and with his current physical skillset he is no longer a true box-to-box man, but purely a central third man.  At a time when the offense was struggling, Peter Vagenas' defense in that third enabled Osvaldo Alonso to get forward a bit more often and enter the attack.  It was a skill that was necessary and useful. When Freddie Ljungberg received a hard foul that was uncalled it was Vagenas who became the enforcer. In practices when there was a question of tactics or technique it was Vagenas who assisted the coaching staff.

Vagenas is the perfect example of a player who is all about leadership and attitude.  He is about clubhouse and coaches favorites, and yet, those skills also manifested in small ways on the pitch.  Sure he's overpriced, but sometimes a young team needs a man who has been around, who has seen the battles, and who has survived.

Peter Vagenas had a +5 in his 740 minutes of league play (0.61 per 90) but only 1 Clean Sheet (min 60 minutes played). This was actually the highest of the 3 players who started matches at the Central Mid (Alonso and Evans).  He assisted on two goals (1 on a set play) in league play, nothing in non-league, for a 0.24 in league and a 0.18 in non-league.

Short Term Peak -Vagenas is already a past-peak player but will likely start all CCL matches next season, and late round US Open Cup. While he should be healthier he will likely not be a threat to get more playing time. Within two years expect him to become an assistant and a good one.

Patrick Ianni - A solid young centerback is hard to find. Hard enough that Houston picked him 8th overall.  But breaking into their starting lineup is difficult, and Ianni lost his GA status.  Houston's loss, was Seattle's gain.  Ianni has over two dozen caps with the U-20, and received the call with the U-23s. Priced appropriately his future in MLS is solid.

Normally offensive skills of a Centerback are ignored, but Ianni is one who gets forward both in run of play and in set-play situations. Skillful at winning the offensive header on the set, and being a decent passback target during the switch Ianni in that final third can provide that 8th man that overloads the opposition. His footwork and passing are good enough that he won't be the source of the turnover that starts the counter. His speed will let him be one of the first back on defense.

Ianni is not the best defender in one on one situations (Hurtado). Nor is he the best at winning that first ball in the air (Marshall). He does not see the build-up of the play best on the team (Graham). Patrick Ianni though is probably the second best in all of those, and still young.  He can become the best as he continues to get playing time, and especially while coached by Sigi the Educator. There is likely not another player on the team who will wind up playing in the league another 10 years besides Patrick Ianni.  He earned 4 Clean Sheets in his 10 starts and 6 significant appearances, and had a +4 in 1102 minutes (0.33 per 90). He scored 1 goal and earned 2 assists for a 0.33 in League play and 0.26 in non-league play.

Short Term Peak - Starting Centerback in 20 or so matches. Regular starter in non-league play.  Possible future All-Star if his learning path is maximized.

Past player recaps/expectations are here

  • Rights Controlled Players - Parke, Karkas, Smith
  • Lightly Used Developmental Players - Neagle, Brown, Fucito
  • Other Keepers - Boss, Eylander
  • Reserves - Graham, Sturgis, King, Scott
  • Subs - Nyassi, Wahl
  •  

    Thoughts on Vagenas and Ianni's past season and what we can expect from either within the next two years?

    0 recs  |  Comment 9 comments |

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    I don't think Ianni is unloved

    Especially by the end of the season. I would especially have loved to have seen him in the second match against Houston, in place of Marshall.

    by CarlosT on Nov 27, 2009 11:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

    More as a reference to the protected list debate

    Much of the focus was on why Ianni and not Riley and/or Le Toux. I think the answer is simple, in that he’s younger and more likely to be an All Star in this league.
    But compared to Vagenas Ianni is much loved.

    I am not a Supporter
    I am not a Fan
    I am a Sounder
    Sounder At Heart

    by Sounder At Heart on Nov 27, 2009 11:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

    Ianni's place on the protected list always made sense to me

    He’s young and showing improvement and growing confidence in himself. He was beginning to show attacking prowess from defense, which is a powerful weapon to have.

    The one I questioned protecting was Marshall. I didn’t see any risk of him being taken and his spot could have been taken by someone more likely to be taken. And in all honestly, had Marshall been taken, I think Ianni could have taken his place fairly comfortably.

    by CarlosT on Nov 28, 2009 12:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

    Vagenas may indeed become a fine assistant coach...

    …so let’s start the process right now, and get him off the pitch for 2010.

    by regnaD kciN on Nov 28, 2009 3:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

    Vagenas and the Depth Chart

    He currently sits third behind Alonso/Ianni at CDM and second behind Evans at CM. HIs influence on the pace of a match is stronger than any other player, and while he does not enter the attack, he enables who ever is the other central midfielder to do so.

    Who else could do what he does?

    I am not a Supporter
    I am not a Fan
    I am a Sounder
    Sounder At Heart

    by Sounder At Heart on Nov 28, 2009 9:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

    To provide an example of why game management matters

    Next year Sounders will be on the road in a place like Costa Rica, El Salvador or Honduras for the Champions League. Vagenas’ leadership and game management will be highly necessary, because almost zero of the Sounders players will have experience in those kinds of environments.

    Having that player/coach on the pitch is more significant in soccer as the coach can do so little during the run of play, but Vagenas knows Sigi’s system, and so can be that conduit to the rest of the team.

    I am not saying that he isn’t overpriced. I am not saying that he is a great talent. I am saying that he has a very useful role on the club and one that can’t be replaced on the transfer or trade markets.

    I am not a Supporter
    I am not a Fan
    I am a Sounder
    Sounder At Heart

    by Sounder At Heart on Nov 28, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

    Fair enough, but...

    he can’t cover enough space defensively and is frequently physically over-matched. At some point the coach value doesn’t compensate for the gaps on the field.

    by Wiesel on Nov 28, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

    It's a little to early to say that Vagenas couldn't be replaced

    We don’t know yet who’s going to be available this offseason. While a potential replacement might not know Sigi’s system as well as Vagenas, he’s still replaceable by the right player, even if that player might not know Sigi’s system as well.

    by CarlosT on Nov 29, 2009 4:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

    Yes, all players are replacable

    But Vagenas strongest skill set (tactical knowledge) is something that is only likely to be replaced in house, not from the outside.

    He is the perfect type of player to be on an expansion side, because of the amount of time he’s been around this league. Only Marshall really compares.

    But as more players learn the system Vagenas becomes less important.

    I am not a Supporter
    I am not a Fan
    I am a Sounder
    Sounder At Heart

    by Sounder At Heart on Nov 29, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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