Full League Plus/Minus

by Dave Clark on Dec 7, 2009 6:21 AM PST in Sounders: MLS Regular Season

It uses a different methodolog than I do (only counts 11 v 11, no extra penalty for Own Goals), but it does it for all 15 teams in League play. He provides the counting and rate stat, as well as adjusting for the team to reduce the impact of being on a great team.

Most notabaly different player due to methodology is Seb Le Toux. Seven Sounders are in the pure top 25 rate stat. Steve Zakuani is 25th in the adjusted stat.

Here is the data from scaryice.

Below the jump you will find the data that I reached which includes man down situations, but is for the Sounders only.

Player	Plus/Minus	Minutes	P/M per 90	Clean Sheets
Levesque	3	260	1.04	2
Scott	5	492	0.91	3
Marshall	16	2166	0.66	11
Gonzalez	7	979	0.64	6
Sturgis	3	440	0.61	1
Vagenas	5	740	0.61	1
Riley	15	2334	0.58	12
Keller	15	2549	0.53	12
Jaqua	13	2278	0.51	10
Ljungberg	10	1836	0.49	8
Evans	12	2294	0.47	10
Hurtado	12	2334	0.46	10
Montero	11	2217	0.45	10
Le Toux	7	1457	0.43	5
Alonso	9	2207	0.37	11
Ianni	4	1102	0.33	4
Zakuani	7	1993	0.32	9
Nyassi	1	305	0.30	2
Wahl	1	892	0.10	0
King	-2	433	-0.42	0
Dragovan	-1	61	-1.48	0
Eylander	-2	90	-2.00	0

To me the big questions for next year are;

What is the best way to handle Own Goals?
How should non-11v11 be handled?
Since the stat gains more usefulness with greater level of substitution, what competitive matches should be included besides League Play?

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Comments

Why don't you count own goals?

by Graham MacAree on Dec 7, 2009 8:44 AM PST reply actions

I only counted OG to the player that "scored" it

I did this because I thought that the player who put it in his own goal is more responsible than the rest of the team. scaryice at Climbing the Ladder feels that the other players are responsible in ways for getting the ball into that situation.

I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Dec 7, 2009 8:50 AM PST up reply actions

Most own goals seem to me like unlucky deflections and whatnot

Anyway, you’re counting individual mistakes as part of the opposition scoring goals anyway. Might as well just add OGs to the mix too.

by Graham MacAree on Dec 7, 2009 8:53 AM PST up reply actions

11 v 11

Should not included at all, just like in hockey. I would think that the stats that pile up when down or up a man would corrupt the original values. But if you wanted to make a whole separate category, I think that would be interesting to look at and compare, just like Power Play Percentage and Penalty Kill.

by deepsouthsoccer on Dec 7, 2009 11:14 AM PST reply actions

would agree should only be 11 v 11

Including other situations seems to punish those who didn’t get sent off, while not affecting those who do.

by PeterJH on Dec 7, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions

+/-

back in the days when i truly cared about the NHL, i always though +/- was the ultimate stat for judging anyone who wasn’t regarded as a “goal scorer.” I was always dismayed that the writers seemed to ignore the seemingly vital stat when assessing who should win the best defensemen or defensive forward awards (the exact names of which I can’t recall at the moment.)

Given the structure of hockey, with the constant shift changes, smaller number of players involved at any given moment, higher number of goals per game, and larger sample-set of games, it strikes me as a more applicable stat to hockey than soccer, where a hard-working Alonso type can be undone by a gaffe from a right-back on a play he had no chance or responsibility to cover.

As always, however, it seems a stat that can only be improved over as large a sample-set as possible (like so many baseball stats, like BA and ERA that only really have meanings over the course of seasons). I’m certainly not a stat-o-phobe, and I’m a “numbers guy” to boot, so its at least interesting to include this in the “list of arguments.”

...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!

by malcontentjake on Dec 7, 2009 11:22 AM PST reply actions