Sounder At Heart: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Cowboy Altitude for Wyoming Fans!

Performance Analysis and Soccer

I get gruff from many football/soccer fans for my fascination with data based analysis. They claim that I focus on the wrong things, that statistical analysis of the sport is impossible. These are often the same arguments that applied at various times to baseball, basketball, hockey, football, rugby, cricket, etc.

And, more impressively is that some of the world's most famous teams aren't listening to the naysayers, but instead talking to the very people that made Moneyball famous, and a man who gets much of the credit in the leaps in baseball back in the 80s. Chelsea has a stats guy.

Recently, though, Forde has been studying basketball, a sport more like soccer. "Basketball is ahead of us," Forde admits. However, he says England’s biggest football clubs now have people in roles like his. "We as a nation are probably more open to the American experience than maybe the French are, the Italians are. Maybe we will be quicker to adapt the Moneyball ideas because of that."

Adapting those ideas began a decade ago, when clubs started to buy data on the number of passes, tackles and kilometres run for each player. Forde remembers the early hunt for meaning in numbers. "Can we find a correlation between total distance covered and winning? The answer was invariably No."

Star-divide

Rather than assume, he ran the numbers, but more significant to me is that he is following statistical analysis and how it is applied in basketball and baseball and rugby. He then tests the systems that apply in those sports to see if they apply in soccer. He visits the Red Sox and Athletics in baseball, and learns. His mind is open, and his team is starting to make discoveries.

Certainly this kind of activity is not limited to Chelsea, nor is it limited to the EPL.Sunil Gulati is a guest at the Sloan Sports Analytics conference, hosted at MIT. The conference has many other sports covered, but has possibilities for more soccer, to include a conference on"Emerging Analytics." The previously mentioned Forde will be there joined by Simon Wilson of Man City, as well as two guests from the other football.

Howard Hamilton of the blog Soccermetrics, has applied for time to talk about Pythag and how it could be used for soccer.

Forde talked in the earlier link about how England is more like America and so more likely to accept statistical analysis than other footballing nations, but you know what country is the most like America?

America

Our league, our fans, and our bloggers should be leading this charge - never discounting it.

0 recs  |  Comment 12 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

The more stats

the better, I say.

I don’t get all crazy about it, but it’s fascinating when it applies significantly. And when it’s wholly insignificant, that can be entertaining, at least.

Also, the challenge of applying it to true team sports is quite interesting.

It will still be a beautiful game, no matter how many stats we pile on it.

by Cornchops on Jan 7, 2010 9:12 PM PST reply actions  

just an analogy

I was a geology major in college, and I once had someone tell me that they didn’t like geology because “understanding the science takes away from the natural beauty. I’d rather just enjoy it than figure out how it was made.”

There’s a word for these types of people…

...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!

by malcontentjake on Jan 7, 2010 10:12 PM PST reply actions  

That's funny. But, there is nothing wrong with that way of thinking.

People have a right to stay ignorant. For some people, that is being happy. Luckily most people don’t feel that way and we have technology that for the most part improves our lives.

by Coug1990 on Jan 8, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

We began to have a discussion about this subject a month or so ago

Statistics are very interesting to me and they only help enhance my enjoyment of sports. It is not for the fantasy leagues either. I played once three years ago in baseball and was bored.

by Coug1990 on Jan 8, 2010 9:19 AM PST reply actions  

The problem with stats in soccer

is that all of the ones that could truly help us understand and evaluate players are proprietary. I applaud your efforts, but stats like shots on target and +/- are very rudimentary and I am skeptical about how much we can learn from them.

That said, I’d love to know what Adrian & his staff have access to and how they use it. Maybe someday things like distance covered and the player by player results of each touch, pass, and tackle will be publicly available for MLS teams, but I have a feeling that day is a long way off.

by bauckus on Jan 8, 2010 12:12 PM PST reply actions  

Shots on Target

This may be a stat that is a “skill” and thereby repeatable, which should help us judge if a player can regress to the mean, or if they are fading.

I hope to have this answered.

I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jan 8, 2010 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

It may be a skill… but it may have more to do with where a player plays on the field, the types of shots they tend to take, their role on the team, etc. If you get an answer or input from someone who has insights on its utility I’d love to hear about it.

by bauckus on Jan 8, 2010 1:03 PM PST up reply actions  

When I run the numbers

I will take into account rough F/M/D definitions

I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jan 8, 2010 1:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Distance covered

Is not that interesting to me, but I know refs are evaluated based on average distance from the ball. For certain positions that could be pretty interesting and revealing.

by Cornchops on Jan 8, 2010 7:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

I get gruff from many football/soccer fans for my fascination with data based analysis.

No, Dave. You get guff from many football/soccer fans for your fascination with data-based analysis. You act gruff in response to the guff.

by regnaD kciN on Jan 8, 2010 12:23 PM PST reply actions  

I learned two things today

the difference between guff and gruff

And that spell check doesn’t like invented words, even when mispelled

I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jan 8, 2010 11:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I like baseball, so I like stats

Too bad I don’t know about football/soccer stats at all. Does anybody have a link to a primer?

by magistermilitum on Jan 8, 2010 10:27 PM PST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Sounder at Heart is a blog about the Seattle Sounders FC, with occasional forays into Democracy in Sports, Roster Management, Soccer Statistics and Life in Puget Sound.
Start posting on Sounder At Heart »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Img_0349_small
A look at the playoff chase (and PPM standings)

Recent FanPosts

Small
Semi - OT: pickup games in Seattle?
Small
T!mbers Sponsorship Deal
Tv-head_sm_small
US Open Cup Final Ticketing Cluster [  ]
Sounder_4_small
Site Survey Going Into Year 3
Img_0349_small
PPM [and whatnot] standings
Small
Did anyone notice...
Img_0349_small
alternatives to friendlies?
Sounder_4_small
CONCACAF Champions League Group Rd 1 Open Thread
Seattlesoccerscene_small
Grass vs Plastic

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

LOS ANGELES, CA - MAY 01:  Head coach Lane Kiffin talks with quarterback Matt Barkley #7 during the  USC Trojans spring game on  May 1, 2010 at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum in Los Angeles, California.  (Photo by Stephen Dunn/Getty Images) link

In Progress: Lane Kiffin Era Begins As No. 14 USC Opens Season At Hawaii

CHICAGO - AUGUST 28: Matt Leinart #7 of the Arizona Cardinals walks in the bench area during a preseason game against the Chicago Bears at Soldier Field on August 28 2010 in Chicago Illinois. The Cardinals defeated the Bears 14-9. (Photo by Jonathan Daniel/Getty Images) link

Leinart Playing Perhaps Final Game In Arizona As Cardinals Finish Preseason Vs. Redskins

New York Mets starter Johan Santana delivers to the Atlanta Braves during the second inning of a baseball game Thursday, Sept. 2, 2010, at Turner Field in Atlanta. (AP Photo/Gregory Smith) +1 updates

Mets Lose Johan Santana To Pectoral Strain, But Hold On To Beat Braves

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Sounder_4_small Dave Clark

Editors

World_small Kirsten Schlewitz

Fight_club_small Jeremiah Oshan

Authors

Small CarlosT

Weaint_small Graham