Cry us a river
by Jeremiah Oshan on Mar 26, 2010 8:34 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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PrintAs mentioned by Sounder at Heart in the previous post, Union coach Peter Nowak was unimpressed by the supposedly floppy nature of some of the Sounders top players.
After reading his quotes, though, I felt it was worth addressing the issue directly.
"From the other standpoint we got to see all this flopping and diving and when you see the stats we have eight fouls and six cards that is too much. There is guys rolling around on the pitch like they got shot. I think we need to recognize there are guys doing this stuff and trying to take advantage of the referee decisions. I expect someone like Freddie Ljungberg who has scored so many goals and played hundreds of games with the national team and won so many trophies would be more honest than he is. He is complaining and whining about missing a goal and trying to push the referee for a yellow card is not up to his standards. I believe and we both played the game and I believe when you play the game you not only try to win but try to be honest with your effort. I think it is below his standards. That is just my opinion."
Obviously, I'm biased, but I felt like I had a pretty decent vantage point and had the benefit of instant replay, and I didn't feel like anything that happened yesterday was at all out of the ordinary. There's a difference between giving the ref a hard sell and just plain acting. No glaring examples of invisible snipers come directly to mind and I think Nowak is pretty out of line here.
I think this is probably a case of "working the refs" and trying to lay groundwork that he hopes will allow his team to continue to play physically and not be punished for it. Nowak realizes his team is not as talented as many of the MLS sides and probably intends to be this physical all season. If that means his squad is playing a man down every game, he knows that isn't feasible.
Nowak has to do whatever he feels is best for his team. I can't imagine how calling out Ljundberg accomplishes that.
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Did he say this after the game or after he'd had a chance to watch film?
I’d sure like to send him the tape of his player “tackling” our guy (forget who) with a studs up challenge halfway up his calf, or perhaps the flying body tackle the could-have-been-last defender put on Zakuani. I’ve seen straight reds given for each of those in other games.
Those quotes are immediately post-game
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Better Calls, Better Game
Last night was a sloppy game on the technical side, but the referees did a good job keeping it under control. Did anyone not expect multiple cards and an ejection after seeing Califfs hard elbow on Montero and then Stahl’s flying body shot? These guys would have been asking to be thrown out of just about any league on the planet.
If the MLS actually keeps up this style of refereeing and punishes those teams that want to make a habit of putting studs through the back of an attackers legs 50 yards from goal, the league as a whole will be much more watchable.
One question for Nowak...
which yellow was unwarranted? Stahl jumping on Ljungberg’s back? Myrie hockey-checking Zak without even pretending to make a play on the ball? Moreno’s (?) late, mid-calf, studs up stab? Stahl simultaneously kicking Montero in the a** and giving him a shove for the 2nd yellow?
On the other side, I can’t recall any egregious missed yellows for either side. Nowak seems to be implying that you shouldn’t have that many yellows for that few fouls. That doesn’t really follow logically – the Sounders committed more fouls, but they weren’t nearly as brutal. There was at least one missed PK that could/should have been called (handball on Fucito’s shot), but overall I thought it was one of the better reffed MLS games I’ve seen.
Sadly, this kind of working the refs seems to be effective at giving us a largely undeserved reputation for diving. We saw it last year and now you can see Ives talking about Freddie diving in his comment thread. I know I’m biased, but Freddie took a beating as the most fouled player in the league last year, and Ives really ought to know better.
Blame the game plan
When your entire game plan is to get physical with the other teams playmakers you can’t complain about being given more yellows then the other team. What a joke.
There's a difference between diving
and having your players lying facedown on the pitch for what seemed like an eternity. The Union are going to have to learn the art of a subtle foul as opposed to recklessly toppling our players and earning cards. Yes, Seattle may have a reputation for diving (deserved or not) but when a player is unable to even twitch after being taken out, it’s not diving, and it’s likely a deserved card.
7500 to Holte - American footy fans are slightly unprepared
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Mar 26, 2010 9:24 AM PDT reply actions
Don't Forget The Ref!
Does the name Salazar ring a bell from last year?
This is a ref who was – in my opinion – notable for his partisanship, his desire to determine the game and an utter inability to control a game except through throwing cards by the fistful.
Interestingly the Union’s comments could have been made by the Sounders last year. I wonder if Mr. Salazer is just asserting his dominance once again and letting the new kids know who’s in charge.
I don’t disagree with the fact that the Union played dirty. The fact that they thought they could get away with it and continued playing dirty despite an early yellow, says alot about the quality of the refs.
by Stephen Nesbitt on Mar 26, 2010 9:56 AM PDT reply actions
It has been said before, but I will reiterate.
If MLS doesn’t crack down on dirty play like we saw from the Union last night then this league will always be difficult to watch. Nowak should be fined for even making comments like that because it is completely unprofessional considering the way he coached his team up for this match.
I agree. The refs should be overly harsh early. It is easier to back off than to start enforcing
Get the thuggery out of MLS. There were several other plays that could have been given yellows. There was one replay they showed that in the background (away from the ball) you clearly saw a Union player absolutely take out one of the Sounders.
Give it time
Nowak’s complaining will be very hard to hear all the way from the bottom of the table.
I think Novac is going by the theory that if you hack a lot, the ref will stop calling the fouls and stop giving cards
How Novac gets off calling out Freddie when Freddie had to leave the game because of injury just beats the hell out of me.
It looks like the Sounders have another rivalry game.
Totally unprofessional
Send this clown back to Poland. I think it’s completely unprofessional for him to be calling out players personally and accusing them of diving. You will never see Sigi, Arena, Kreis, etc doing this. We’ll see if there’s anyone listening when he’s at the bottom of the barrel with his team of hacks. I’m glad Steve Davis wrote that article. How pathetic that you have to insult others to cover for your bad job of forming a team that can win.
I appreciated the early yellow.
Hopefully it is the refs and the league saying, “No, you can’t beat the crap out of the Freddyain this year.”
You can’t argue much with their fouls-against numbers.
by Cornchops on Mar 26, 2010 3:08 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I agree, but I hope they call it tight early league wide
I hope the league makes a statement early that the thuggery will not be tolerated in any game.
I'm fine with tactical fouling
But it’s not ok to foul to intimidate or injure.
by Graham MacAree on Mar 26, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Or because you're a crappy defender.
by Cornchops on Mar 26, 2010 6:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Economics
I really am not a big fan of tactical fouling at all. If it is a non-soccer related foul (arm tackling, etc) then it should be an automatic red card.
You really have to make sure that any tactical foul is at least carded. The whole point of that kind of foul is to allow teams or individuals who have less ability (physical or technical) to stop goal-scoring opportunities to players who have them beat. But better teams should beat weaker ones. In a game where there are only about 2.3 goals on average, taking one away through an intentional foul needs an equal punishment.
One thing everyone seems to be missing - 6 reds in preseason
I have not seen it mentioned here yet but Philly managed to accumulate 6 reds in preseason, including 3 in one game against Dallas. This is simply the kind of game that Nowak has them playing right now and it really has nothing to do with Seattle. If they continue to do this they are going to see red all season, and it will be deserved.
by brokejumper on Mar 26, 2010 5:31 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I am kind of getting the notion that the Union franchise is a little arrogant.
Don Ruiz (of the TNT) did an interview with the Union’s GM and he lessened the amount that they learned from Seattle. Commissioner Garber did an interview and said the Union came out to Seattle SEVERAL times to learn from the Sounders. Conversely, last year Adrian gave Toronto a lot of credit for the early off the field success of the Sounders.
Then we see the extremely physical play both on and off the ball and afterwords Nowak goes out of his way to criticize Freddie, the ref and the crowd. The Union definitely are trying to play up an “us against the world” and “woe is me” attitude.
Ugh
Makes me sick with lost Le Toux to them. Such a classy player on such a dirty, arrogant team.
by chrisperry1983 on Mar 26, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
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