Nyassi Scored, Moreno Didn't - What next?
by Dave Clark on Apr 13, 2010 8:28 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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PrintThis isn't a standard complaint about referees. Those are too frequent in sports, but recently with the USSF ruling that Nyassi was in fact onside against the Union and should be credited with a goal (who had the non-assist?) and today's notice that Jaime Moreno should have been given a Yellow Card and not a goal things get interesting.
What should be done? Should the official stats be changed? Should independent sites change their statistics?
In neither case would the W-L-D results shift, but tie-breakers can and often do come down to a single goal differential. Oddly enough, the Union both lose a GD and gain one in these two incidents.
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Unfortunately
I don’t think you can do anything, except what officials have done and admit mistakes. Unless you’re going to have replays to correct these kinds of mistakes in-game, I think you just accept the human errors, try to do better in the future and move on. You’re right, you can’t change the standings. If you can’t do that, I don’t see why you should change goal totals, either.
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Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
I’d like to see these things changed, but I’m not sure it’s possible. Not only would it make a difference in the GD (which might theoretically be important), but it could make a difference in the career of someone like Nyassi. One goal doesn’t sound like much, but the difference between Nyassi getting 1 or 2 goals on the year in MLS play, for example, could be a big deal for him.
The problem, I guess, comes later down the line when a goal like that could affect the outcome of a game. What if Houston’s goal vs LA in the playoffs had been allowed to stand after a review (and I’m pretty confident it would have)? Do you credit the goal after the fact? Then what happens to the result of the match? Do you keep the same result even though it ‘should’ have been a draw? Do you just give it as a ‘ghost goal’ to the player and rule that since it’s after the fact it doesn’t really count in affecting the outcome? Too complex to do, unfortunately.
Along those lines
And what if officials rule that RSL should not have been awarded a corner at the end of Saturday’s game? I still haven’t seen an explanation for that, but if officials say it was a mistake, would the Sounders get two extra points? I’d say no, which is why you don’t want to go down the road of awarding goals (not just who scored them) after the fact.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
Montero
does exactly what Moreno did, all the time. The keeper just hasn’t dropped the ball yet.
Last year he got the card, but he had headed the ball out of Reis’ hand.
How long until he gets a card this year, especially after the Moreno goal?
Um…Sigi? Time to have a chat?
slightly different take
from my perspective, it appeared the goalie “let up” defending the cross/Nyassi shot when the offside flag went up (or perhaps he heard the ref’s whistle?) , so you really can’t award a goal in this instance if the key guy involved thought the play was dead…no matter how bad the call…
don’t misunderstand, i’m not saying he would have made the save.
by the same token, if they determined later there was a handball on Fucito’s shot, i don’t see how you could go back and award a pk…
rather you can really only grade the refs based upon replay, and incentivize them accordingly, so they may put even greater effort into getting it called correctly in the future..
I have to agree unfortunatly
I did look like the goalie heard the whistle from the referee and was at least slightly impacted by it.
By that same logic, I find it hard to retroactively change a score after the game is over. Neither team has a way at that point to change their game dynamic to better their results (as the game is already over).
An example would be if the sounders were down 2-1 and right scored right before halftime. A mistake is made and the referee decides there was no goal (when there should have been). Fast forward to 10 mins left in the game and the sounders are still down 2-1. Sigi gets worried and throws out another forward who then goes on to score a goal before the closing minutes. Referees go back to the game a realize the score should have been 2-3 in favor of the sounders and change the gd accordingly (possibly even the result of the game based on how extreme you want to take it).
Now that example works out great for the sounders, the retro active change makes us better then we would have been. But at the same time had that first goal counted then and there the whole game dynamic would have changed and because of this I can’t support retroactive changes (with the exception of cards).
Instead of this if we were to implement some sort of replay system for the ref or a review specific ref, I could easily support it. Immediately after the goal is scored if there is any sort of controversy the ref could quickly check the play (while the other team is celebrating and the lines are setting up) and make sure that the ruling was correct.
kinda like time travel
you change one event, and it effects a series of events. good example derek…
by roadrunner11 on Apr 14, 2010 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes to discipline, no to goals
I think it would be good to enforce discipline after the fact, at least with respect to card accumulation, but goals are too complicated. What I really like is that the referees are dropping the facade and admitting when they make mistakes. Decent replay technology might be an answer, but it would need to be very fast, because soccer is even less tolerant than most sports to long delays for officiating.
I agree on postmatch discipline.
I don’t think they could institute replay in a way that would keep it fast enough for me.
I, too, have been pleasantly surprised by this year’s “Referee Week in Reviews.”
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