GameThread Match Day 6: Seattle Sounders FC at Toronto FC
by Dave Clark on Apr 25, 2010 10:30 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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PrintWIth just about a half hour until kickoff we open up the gamethread. Keys to the Game, and the Scouting Report are both up for you to review, but now its just abou the boys on the pitch and what they can do to pull 4 points out of the Double. Oh, and as always with a TFC match, Duane will have sober second thoughts tomorrow. Today we only wonder if he can survive the day.
If they get 3 Seattle will be in a solid position with Red Bull and the Galaxy. Getting zero puts them in the middle of the pack. Oh, and if you think the West continues to be better than the East, you are right. Standings.
Sounders lineup has a series of much more significant twists than I thought
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Ljungberg |
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Nyassi |
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Evans |
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Alsonso |
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Sturgis |
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Vagenas |
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Wahl |
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Riley |
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Marshall |
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Ianni |
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Keller |
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The late significant changes means that we won't be having pretty here today, and how the Central Mids play is really up for debate at the end of the match.
Subs: Hurtado, Montero, Zakuani, Levesque, Gonzalez, Estrada, Boss
KING5 with the broadcast of Arlo White.
Your thoughts, and live analysis in the comments.
284 comments
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Will we see Leo as a Midfield sub today?
I could see it happening, because it would add to the attack.
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Pre-game is stating that Evans will be up top
Its been a long time since he’s done it, but it would help Sounders efforts at high pressure.
With this lineup though I just think that post-game will be a better time to assess formations. There should windup with a lot of shifting.
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Late arriving crowd in Toronto today
Heavy rains and winds.
Or is the shine coming off?
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The shine is coming off.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
by SSreporters on Apr 25, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Missed the pregame
Is Fucito too hurt to play and that is keeping him out of the lineup/subs or is that just Sigi’s decision?
Odd
The Sounders crest that King 5 is different from the one on the shirts.
Can controlling the crowd really be a key?
Do they score or prevent goals?
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Translation: TFC is pretty much just DeRosario
But we had to come up with something else to say, otherwise it would have been the Key to the Game.
by CarlosT on Apr 25, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm... Sturgis out wide.
I don’t know enough about Sturgis to know if that’s good or bad.
I would expect a much flatter wide play
really only 3 attacking players on the pitch.
In pre-season Sturge was complimented by Sigi for improving his game, particularly in the attack, but he didn’t much time wide.
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Arlo really is English isn't he?
Hor-gay as a pronunciation for Jorge?
5th Minute
Sounders have had stronger passing sequences so far, and the only threat on goal.
Just like last year, the Sounders are better at the short pass, while Toronto has spent time with long balls in the air during crappy weather.
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Terrible crowd
Torontonians are weather pussies.
Good luck Sounders, although I fear a whipping from you guys on TFC.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
6th minute
Nyassi’s run there was solid, but his pass was just poor. So much potential that is yet imcomplete.
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7th minute
Saric with a foul on Ljungberg.
Not the best call, but Seattle must take advantage. Shame that Montero isn’t playing. Nice sportsmanship. from Saric.
Drop ball?
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Guess that was just an injury pause?
No foul?
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9th Minute Corner
Ljungberg to provide service
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Ianni had a strong run
and a decent shot. Just missed it.
I really like what Ianni brings to the match. Just a touch more offense from the back.
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Wow, that was a well taken corner
Just couldn’t get above it, but nice cross in and nice run by Ianni to get there first.
13 minutes in and a well called match
I can’t really argue with these calls.
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Well, advantage should have been played on that Riley foul
There’s no way there’s more benefit to a free kick next to your own penalty area is better than your winger with the ball on a break.
In this league though?
If this is the worst call of the day the referee deserves a doubling of salary.
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Oh, definitely
Not playing advantage when it’s due is one of my big pet peeves.
14th minute and a Yellow
TFC CDM Saric earns his 3rd yellow of his season.
I don’t know if that was worthy of a yellow, but with a history like that he isn’t goign to get the default.
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Where to watch the game...
hey, does anyone know where I can watch the game? I live in Sweden so ever since MLS reformed the whole online video package deal its been a constant struggle to find the Sounders games on Justin.tv and similar sights and I can’t seem to find one today…
Its only 30$ US or so
Not a huge cost, and the video quality is good.
You can even watch 3 matches at once if there are overlapping matches.
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Yeah but
the problem is the player only works within the US and Canada, otherwise there wouldn’t be a problem.
by AdamTheLord on Apr 25, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
didn't know that
I’ll let the Sounders know that said policy destroys the concept of being an international club.
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The annoying thing
Is that I know the Sounders could do streaming much better than MLS.
18th minute and another Yellow on TFC
Seattle didn’t take a good play on goal, but eventually wins the corner.
A lot of clutter in the box, but no real threats.
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Nice sequence there before the corner, though
Hopefully they can make that kind of thing pay off.
Certainly strong pressure
but pretty passes mean little to me
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You have to finish them, sure
But you have to get there first. The Sounders have struggled to break down bunkering teams, and good passing is key to that.
A huge list
Atlantic Crossing
George and Dragon
3 Kings
College Inn
Doyle’s Public House
Fado
Elysian Fields
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By the end of the match which TFC player
WON’T have fouled Sturgis?
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Maybe he voiced South Park episodes?
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You can really tell this is a Preki team though, can't you?
Thuggery is just a passion for him.
The more I see Ianni
The more I like him. He’s definitely our defender for the future.
by CarlosT on Apr 25, 2010 11:31 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
26th minute
and Ljungberg gets knocked into the boards by the Keeper Frei
Isn’t worth a foul, but still not pure play
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Liking the KING broadcast
Excellent commentary. Do they show every Sounders’ game, or only a few?
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 11:35 AM PDT reply actions
All the ones that aren't nationally broadcast
So, if it’s not on ESPN or FSC, basically.
KONG normally has it with the same broadcast team
KING only 2 times a year
Arlo White was brought on this year to replace Calabaro.
and good to see you!
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don't konw that I loved the angle
Maybe a pass to the runner in the box
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28th minute
Seattle has clearly controlled play, but with this US Open Cup lineup they just aren’t getting the chances that they need.
Too many turnovers.
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I wouldn't worry too much
This Toronto lineup isn’t too impressive, either, and Seattle’s creating chances. Think they’ll take this one pretty easily.
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Seattle has given up 4 goals from PK/Corner this year
So I’ve been trained to not feel safe
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All those that love grass
Check out how poorly the brand new field looks only a handful of matches into the season plays.
Large chunks of field missing
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Indeed
I’ve never been a grass at all costs guy. It can work well, but you have to do so much maintenance to keep it in good shape, especially with the kind of weather you get in the early season in places like Toronto and Seattle, and the problem is that bad grass tends to be pretty awful. In my mind, good turf can work just as well; it’s not as great as perfect grass, but it’s not as bad as bad grass, and you can’t usually have perfect grass all year. Also, turf tends to be better in bad weather (at least from my playing experience). Think the grass movement is more of a way to attract international players/a PR move to appeal to the fans than anything to do with the actual quality of the playing surface.
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
38th minute
Ljungberg to Evans seems to be working, except for the lack of finish.
That service was great. Excellent ball movement.
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welcome
Love when the other WA SBNation blogs stop by
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evans is good at giving up headers but not finishing his own.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Apr 25, 2010 11:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What did Nyassi do?
how was that a Yellow?
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started moving to block the shot before the ball was touched.
proud 4th line advocate
resident master jinxer
It was for encroachment
Even though he didn’t encroach. Just another MLS refereeing moron moment.
45th minute
Seattle looks strong enough with the ball that they are on a fast break even with the numbers against them.
That was a 3 on 6 and I thought the Sounders were likely to score.
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Anyone else wish that Montero would consistently work as hard as Ljungberg?
proud 4th line advocate
resident master jinxer
TFC just looks hesitant on the attack
They can’t get anything going and seem almost afraid to swing the ball in.
Corners
They’re creating corners, though, and as Dave pointed out above, those can be dangerous. Not doing much from open play, but they’ve actually looked better than I would have expected.
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep
Right as I said that they went on a strong attack.
by Brian Floyd on Apr 25, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
0-0
This game may be 0-0, but it’s already more interesting than Vancouver – St. Louis (Div II) was last night. At least both teams are going forward here; St. Louis didn’t record a single shot on net in that one.
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 11:53 AM PDT reply actions
that late corner had every sounder back
they’ve learned.
No need to have an outlet pass when time could be called at any moment.
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Halftime thoughts
Though Seattle has a US Open Cup Lineup they are dominating play, though not the score. Seattle for the most part has controlled the run of play through delicate short passes with a few good connections that could have wound up as goals.
Brad Evans in the forward role has had his chances, but the years since being expacted to score might be a reason that his two clear opportunties haven’t scored.
Ianni, Evans, and Ljungberg have all been very strong this match.
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I've been really glad not to see any punt and pray
There have been some clearances, but they have been trying to actually make intelligent passes and patiently create opportunities.
Great point
the long ball has been very rare from Seattle, and the times they use it they are connecing.
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Possession has been nice to see
They really seem to be linking passes together nicely. Even their switches have been on target for the most part, from what I saw.
by Brian Floyd on Apr 25, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Nyassi got a yellow for being fast
It looked like he started after the ball was touched and the ref was surprised to see him there.
That's what I thought seeing the replay
He didn’t move until the first touch. Man, he accelerates fast, though.
by Brian Floyd on Apr 25, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone expecting a half time sub?
Zakuani is really the only speed on the bench, but Seattle could use a little bit right now.
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Nothing yet
60th minute maybe? Depending on what happens between now and then.
by Brian Floyd on Apr 25, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone ever pick their dentist based on their sports sponsorship?
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All my health care decisions are based on sports sponsorship
No, not really.
Damn Sturge
two opportunities from great play but no result
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Gotta finish that
That’s as good a long as you can get.
by Brian Floyd on Apr 25, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice run, though
And a good through ball.
by Brian Floyd on Apr 25, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Toronto may need to rename themselves
The Yellows
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Is anyone else concerned about our ability to generate all these chances and not convert?
Against a better team…
proud 4th line advocate
resident master jinxer
That's the Sounders #1 problem
And has been since last season.
55th minute corner won by Riley
That string of play was great, but a goal here is necessary.
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The credit for this corner goes to Ljungberg, great effort to regain possession
proud 4th line advocate
resident master jinxer
stupid.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Apr 25, 2010 12:22 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Wow, that was incredibly weak.
That was all on Alonso.
clear the damn ball
that was purely on the efforts on Alonso and a lack of clearence.
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Indeed. Will be interesting to see now if TFC sit back with the lead or if they keep pressing for a second.
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
If we lose we beat ourselves. cant finish and sloppy clearing
Sometimes things never change
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Apr 25, 2010 12:25 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Nkufo better be damn good...
It would be nice to have a more than one healthy striker on the roster.
Zakuani's pass was great
and Evans just can’t finish AGAIN.
The earned corner results in a deep throw
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On a similar note...
Would we have scored today if instead of a goalkeeper, Toronto had fielded a 4×4 sheet of plywood in the center of the net? Sadly, no.
Alonso is having some problems today
Good job taking the ball away, bad job giving it right back.
sturgis fouled from behind again
this time not called.
kid has just been hammered today
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they have to call that when it immediately turns into a counter.
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Apr 25, 2010 12:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Punt and pray is starting to creep in again
And it’s unsurprising that Sturgis is hurt. They’re really going after him for some reason today.
I think he was just a bit slower in possesion.
Toronto has been looking to take out anyone with the ball and Sturgis was a bit slower to get rid of it.
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
71st minute
Attakora’s clearence was awful.
Seattle has to take advantage of this, and doesn’t
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painting pretty pictures indeed
I love the metaphor
sadly seattle painted those pictures in the first half, but didn’t get anything for it.
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We don’t deserve this game.
Lazy plays in the midfield.
proud 4th line advocate
resident master jinxer
Midfield?
Two really bad defensive plays by Alonso and Tyronne….
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Marshall gave them that goal
the Sounders retreated into giving Toronto the ball
The Reds just took advantage of that gift
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Just like Alonso gave them the first
Horrible ball control both times gives Toronto the ball on a silver platter.
Estrada for Riley?
That makes no sense
Vagenas has been CRAP
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Right wing
2 goals down Riley would be simply running the right wing anyway so you might as well have a true right-winger out there. But yes, Pass-back has been poor.
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Riley is a better defender than Vagenas though
could have gone 3-4-3 with the change
but this does nothign to add to the attack
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I guess I see this as a 3-4-3 now
And I do see Estrada as better in attack than Riley, but oh well.
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Finishing
We have three open chances with only the keeper to beat and either miss the net or hit it straight to the keeper. Problem is we did not have a single striker on the field today until Montero and he is not exactly showing much this year in terms of movement.
True enough, but you can't just hand people goals like this
TFC has done basically nothing to earn this.
I agree...
But really, what is to be said about Alonso playing Coerver drills on the top of the 18 and Marshall working as Toronto’s CAM?
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
84th minute and only Montero and Ljungberg play with urgency
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Nice to see Montero moving well though...
He needs this urgency from the opening whistle. It is really unfortunate Fucito is down because I think Montero needs some competitive pressure to improve. Maybe he thinks the summer transfer is already done but he does not seem to play with much fire this year.
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
He had that one good one earlier
But yeah, after that it’s been all low.
Corners
I have never been too impressed with his corners going back to last year. I would rather have him in the box and I think Le Toux completely outclassed him last year.
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice work by Zakuani
But the cross wasn’t quite good enough.
Can't watch (out of region)
Is it seriously still 0-0?
Don't we wish
No, two stupid errors gifted Toronto two goals.
One of my biggest problems with the Sounders
Often when we are given the same gifts, we can’t make the results.
That was Jaqua's role
Basically, these goals we gave up today were “garbage goals”.
I think it's about another month or so
The surgery was around two or three weeks ago and they were talking about seven weeks or so.
no it isn't
Toronto got 2 goals off of Sounders miscues
This was gifted to them
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On the positive side...
I believe these will be the first assists of the year for Alonso and Marshall!
by brokejumper on Apr 25, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
92nd minute
Another Seattle corner
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Ducking their heads
Both Evans and Sturgis had their chins on their chests when heading open looks and the ball predictably went over the net. U-12 stuff there for my money.
Well, that sucked.
Our level of play was definitely higher than theirs, but you can’t just hand goals over like that.
True. Those turnovers were costly, and there wasn’t much finishing. Thought this game reflected better on Seattle than Toronto for the long term, though; they played pretty well for most of it, except for those defensive mistakes. Correct those and they should be in good shape.
Editor of www.sportingmadness.ca and www.canuckpuck.com.
by Andrew Bucholtz on Apr 25, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Except that these are the same mistakes we've been seeing this year
Seattle is prone to errors, and especially prone to wasting quality opportunities.
The passing of the sounders in the Final third isn’t the problem.
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"If you missed any portion of this match or just wanted to see it again...."
Stick it up your @$$ Arlo! :)
I thought the :) made it clear he wasn't serious.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
Whoa....I did not see that coming. I'm not even sure that was indeed Toronto FC out there.
Some terrible defending by Alonso as well as the gaffe from Marshall. Sounders looked off today, but we were great in the 2nd half.
Oh well, tough luck on the loss, I still think the Sounders are a good team and had a lot of chances to score. Stefan Frei stood on his head.
Good luck the rest of the season.
The Seahawks have traded my signature to the Detroit Lions for a 6th round draft pick.
It could have been a U-9 team
We might as well have kicked the ball into the goal ourselves.
Really?
If the midfield was the problem than you are advocating that Alonso sits?
Vagenas had some poor passes, but this loss wasn’t his fault. Alonso and Marshall screwed up with poor outlets and Evans wasted opportunities, but the midfield itselft played very well.
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Agreed, the problems were elsewhere this game
Not finishing is classic Sounders, but the horrible defensive mistakes where the whole story of this match. There’s not really anything else to say about this game. Any other problems we might have seen we see in each and every Sounders match.
Your right this loss wasn’t his fault but the line up thought like i said i am surprised Seattle went with a 4-1-2-2-1 line up. Leaving Freddie up alone thought wasn’t a good choice.
Plenty of offense was generated
Ljungberg by himself was fine.
I would be willing to see that happen more often.
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Blame the line-up
The sorry excuse for today’s line-up was primarily the reason for our loss. Yeah, Marshall and Alonso made some stupid mistakes, but they are solid players. The mistakes were made later in the game, and due in great part to the fact that we hadn’t finished on multiple chances. Those mistakes are a whole lot more tolerable if we’re up 1-0 or 2-0. Still not excusable, but a lot easier to deal with and come out of with at least one point or maybe even the full three.
Alonso flubbed the ball because Evans didn't get his header in the net?
What?
I love Alonso, and I think he doesn’t get nearly enough credit for the great work he does, but this game he flubbed it big time, and Marshall shares in that blame.
Exactly
This isn’t a game to be pointed at Sigi, nor at Chemistry
It rests on three players. Two on defense and one on offense.
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Today's formation would work really well with a forward who can finish chances
Nkufo is supposed to be that guy, but we’ll see. It might even be the solution for when Jaqua gets back.
Weak starting line-up means...
…weak performance overall. Not really sure why we had to sit our best goal scorers, but Brad Evans is NOT a suitable alternative. I’m sure either Zakuani or Montero could have finished on at least one if not more of those chances, and that definitely would have changed the tone of the match. Instead, Toronto capitalizes on our defensive mistakes, and we can’t score. The exact OPPOSITE of our strategy on the road to be the first to score, and put the home team on the defensive. Really damn frustrating if you ask me…
Sturgis played well
You would be hard pressed to show that he wasn’t a solid addition to the lineup.
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Especially since Preki put out a fatwah against him
I mean, seriously, what was up with that?
by CarlosT on Apr 25, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll admit sturgis played well i just don’t think 4-5-1 is a good line up or at least in the way sigi had it today.
Except that there wasn't a strategic or tactical decision that was wrong
Today’s loss rests on the players.
Not the coach.
Evans had several clear opportunities. Sigi can’t make him score those.
Alonso and Marshall blew two clearences. That isn’t Sigi’s fault.
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you can’t tell me some of the blame doesn’t lie with Sigi… he chose the damn lineup! What was he thinking with four of our best starters off the pitch?? Maybe it could have been Gonzalez or Hurtado making one or two of those clearances? And Montero or Zakuani finishing on one of those chances? Sigi himself doesn’t play, but he dictates the tone of the game from the start with the line-up he choses, especially one as wildly different as this one!
It might have been theoretically possible
But Gonzalez or Hurtado wouldn’t have replace Alonso or Marshall, so they both would have been on the field.
You’d have some argument if it were Wahl and Ianni who handed the match to Toronto on a silver platter, garnished with lemon zest and rosemary, but they both played really well.
Actually they played pretty well for a good part of the game
If we don’t gift them those two goals, right now we’re talking about a workmanlike road draw, and still wondering who’s going to actually finish.
we shouldn’t be satisfied with “a wormanlike road draw” against teams like Toronto, especially after having to suffer a ref-induced disgusting draw against Dallas. Unless we step up the play, especially on the road, this season may start slipping away.
Toronto has the 3rd best home record over their life
A draw would have been a great result.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
a draw right now sounds great, but trust me, we should be WINNING games like this. Use the previous draw as motivation, go with the same team from last game, and come home with 4 points on the road trip rather than a lousy 1 point.
Um, yeah...
I’m pretty sure the draw wasn’t the plan, especially since Ljungberg was talking before the game how they wanted six points before they left on the trip and that after the Dallas debacle they wanted four.
Note that the two players who gifted the game to Toronto were regular starters. Some times this stuff just happens.
of course this stuff happens, but with a different line-up, that may have never been the case. Everything changes if you can score on one or two of those chances. Fact is, I was extremely suspect of the line-up when I first saw it, and I honestly believe that the coaching staff thought this might be an easier game and put in a sub-par line up to try it out and give some guys a rest. The experiment FAILED pretty miserably if you ask me.
I don't know if you've noticed
But we don’t have Lionel Messi on the team right now. All of our players have trouble finishing, no exceptions.
I think Sigi’s been around MLS long enough to know that anyone can beat anyone at any time, and that Toronto, for all their problems, are usually hard to beat at BMO.
Messi isn't a Sounder?
damn….
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
you don’t need a Messi to win in this league, but you do need a solid starting XI. That’s all I’m trying to say. This line-up versus our traditional line-up leaves much to be desired. It has to be a factor in the loss, that’s all.
Why?
Alonso and Marshall are part of our solid starting eleven. So is Evans, even if he was out of position today. All of our players waste too many chances. Look at pretty much any game starting from the second half of last season forward and you’ll see missed chance after missed chance.
If you think Montero would finish a gimme goal then you are dreaming.
But this was a frustrating lineup.
by LonelyintheBleachers on Apr 25, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
quit the Montero bashing already… the guy can score, plain and simple. His absence was a huge factor in the loss today.
He didn't do much today as a sub
But the only real factor in today’s loss was the boneheaded mistakes.
he wasn’t even playing his normal position anyhow. He could have had a goal there, if it weren’t for a great save by Friel. In any case, this sorry excuse for a line-up should be taken out to the back-yard and shot. I would not miss it if it NEVER showed up again, unless it’s a meaningless scrimmage…
That lineup would beat most Open Cup lineups
at least in the first two rounds.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Answer me this… would you pick this line-up over our traditional one for future games? Would you honestly sit ALL of these players at once: Montero, Zakuani, Hurtado and Gonzalez? Who would you have in their place?? This line-up was a failed experiment, plain and simple.
Lineup was forced due to fatigue and injury
It certainly wasn’t Sigi’s first choice.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
And more to the point, not a factor in this loss
The starters blew this one, not the replacements.
Sigi didn't have that choice
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
What do you mean??? The only player who was considered an injury possibility was Keller, and he started!! All the other players starting the Dallas game were healthy enough to be available as subs!
You do recognize the difference
between starting and subbing? I don’t know that guys fit to play 15 minutes are automatically assumed to fit to play 75+
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 25, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
All FOUR of them though? Were so fatigued by Thursday’s game that NONE of them could start on Sunday?
You make it sound
Like Sigi tanked the game. If we had won on thursday, I could maybe see the tactics in sitting four starters. But do you honestly think he just sat them out of what? Spite? Being too clever? He obviously knew the team could really use the points.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 25, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
what I’m saying is that he took a risk with this line-up and it didn’t pay off. He was hoping to rest some of his better players, both due to perceived necessity, as well as perceived evaluation of the Toronto team. I’m saying that it was a mistake, and he’d probably agree. It’s not one you can prove as easily as missed clearances, but that still doesn’t mean its not a mistake.
And the replacements did well, for the most part
Ianni was great, Wahl did fine, Sturgis actually played pretty, despite being marked for death, and Nyassi was a speed demon (he even got carded for being too fast). Vagenas should be retired (he 932, after all, poor guy), but he was the only new starter I thought did badly.
But did they do enough to justify not having started the people they replaced is what I’m saying. Let’s say they didn’t score, would you really have been satisfied with the draw? YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, to use a football quote… hehehehe
How do you know the people they replaced wouldn't have done worse?
We don’t know and can’t know. Maybe one of them would have given up a goal and gotten a red card.
Like I’ve said many times, the replacements were not to blame. If they were, you’d have some sort of case, but it was players from our best eleven that lost the match for us today.
I can’t believe you’re still pulling for this line-up… which of those replacements would you like to see made a starter then? There’s a reason why they ARE replacements and aren’t starting the game! Yeah, anything is possible, but with your best people out on the pitch, you have the best chance to win, it’s just that simple!
In light of fatigue and injury who would you have started?
Seriously
Zakuani and Montero weren’t fit. Noona, Hurtado and Fucito weren’t healthy.
So who woudl you drop and start?
The quick review is up. Let’s move the post match conversation there. Because the server is going to get cluttered.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I don't think you understand this and you need to get it
You cannot play all your best players every single game, especially in the back half of a double after an intense first game. You think these guys are horses and they aren’t. We had to play the lineup we did because of the situation. This isn’t a FIFA game.
OK fine, you rest some players, but you don’t take out four of your starters and expect to come away with a win. Wether by necessity or by choice, this is not in any ways a preferable line-up and I am confident it had at least some affect on the result, obviously! I’ll take my comments to the next section then…
I’m sorry but i am frustrated and even more after todays crap (followed it online) If we can score with this line up i don’t know what will.
This is definitely NOT a scoring line-up… what can you expect with your top two goal scorers missing? And it’s definitely NOT a defensive line-up either, with Gonzalez and Hurtado missing… I honestly have no idea what kind of line-up it is, aside from a LOSING one.
Honestly, this lineup looked more fluid than we usually are
We dominated the game before Alonso gave up the first goal. After that we went into shock a bit and the second goal finished us off, but we looked good for about the first hour.
because Alonso and Marshall wouldn't have passed to guys in WHITE?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
bleh NVM. Probably should take a break from watching the sounders until i can no longer be frustrated.
sports will always frustrate
but let’s just be honest about the blame.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Possession
this lineup was all about possession
blaming the lineup means you didn’t watch the game.
3 STARTERS are to blame. Not Rotational guys. Not Substitutes.
This match was lost by Evans, Alonso and Marshall. No one else. Most certainly not by Sigi.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I’m sorry but I watched the ENTIRE miserable game in HD. The line-up is a huge reason for this result. Evans was not playing his normal starting role, and I agree possession was a huge problem… but that involves the ENTIRE team. Alonso shouldn’t be the one having to clear a ball that deep! What we’re saying is that with our standard line-up, not only could we have possibly scored on missed chances, but we could also perhaps have prevented those defensive mistakes as well.
Alonso does that kind of thing all the time
It’s part and parcel of being a defensive mid. He just did it incredibly badly this time.
so did he do badly enough to justify sitting him during the next game? What I’m saying is that I can bet we won’t be trying this line-up next Saturday vs. Columbus that’s for damn sure!
Of course not
He played well for most of the game, and he’s far and away our very best defensive mid. But defense is cruel: one mistake and all your good work is wiped out.
As for the lineup, yeah, you’re probably right that we won’t see it next week, but that doesn’t mean it had anything to do with this loss.
to quote the Shawshank Redemtion, “How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate??” What do you MEAN that the line-up didn’t have ANYTHING to do with this loss???
Alonso, Marshall and Ljungberg are all regular starters
The first two would still have been there to pass to TFC and Ljungberg would still have been there to whiff on his goals and send corners in to the shins of the TFC defense.
Evans played up front and whiffed his headers, but he’s an attacking central mid and gets those kinds of opportunities in a normal game too. Like I said, it’s the starters who cost us this game, not the replacements.
by CarlosT on Apr 25, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
but you still don’t think there could have been a different result had we had 4 of our regular starters in??
Of course it could have been different
But it wouldn’t necessarily have been better. Maybe we lose 2-1, or if we’re really lucky we draw 2-2, but any time you hand the opposition two goals like that you’re going to have a bad day. And the players who handed them those two goals would still have been there and in the same positions and maybe one of the starters we rested gives them a third goal.
and just why did we hand them those goals? Why was the ball there in the first place? Alonso should have cleared that ball, and maybe Gonzalez would have been there to do it! If we would have scored early in the game, it would have been Toronto under pressure, and then we could have scored again! It could just as easily have been 2-0 Seattle… the Toronto goals came later in the game…
I think you misunderstood
This lineup was about possession, and that part of things worked really well. We didn’t get into punt and pray in a serious way until the end of the match after it was essentially already lost.
I honestly felt that our possession during this game left a lot to be desired. There were quite a few missed and bad passes, as well as mistakes that gave the other team the ball, especially deep on our side.
We always have plenty of missed and bad passes
We just had a lot less than usual this game. Pete Vagenas was insanely bad today though. I would have loved to have seen him come out today.
maybe I was just frustrated by all the missing starters out there, but I felt a heavy feeling throughout the entire game, from the very start. It just did not seem like the kind of Sounders play that I’ve come to love these past two years… I’ll take equalizers in injury time, because that tends to be influenced by the refs more than anything, and at times it benefits us as was seen vs. KC. But its losses like these, where 4 out of our best XI are missing but completely able to play, that really frustrate me.
Except that it wasn't the replacements who were the problem
It was two individual mistakes by starters who cost us the game. Those guys would still have been out there in the “normal” lineup.
of course not, but what I am saying is that IF we can SCORE, those mistakes might not cost us as much, or even have been made!! So Alonso has to make a clearance in the penalty area, that’s pretty basic. Marshall made his mistake with most our players pressing forward due to the 0-1 score. Perhaps the ball wouldn’t be so deep in our territory as often with more of our starters in there!
The experimental line up dominated the game up until the goal
And it’s not like our regular guys don’t miss chances like it’s going out of style either.
dominated the game my ass. I don’t consider scoring ZERO goals as dominating ANYTHING. I’d rather have our starters out there missing chances, than sitting on the bench. Cause more than likely they will SCORE on one of those chances! It happened enough last year, didn’t it??
Yet did you ever see them make a line-up change this drastic last year?? Seriously, we scored enough to make the playoffs! And but for one or two more scores, we would’ve had the top seed! You talk as if we were dead last! Trust me, this team can do well enough if it puts it all out on the pitch… plus we’re getting ANOTHER scorer in the summer! We don’t need to SIT our best guys in order to WIN!
I'm pretty sure that if we went back we could find one or two instances
Fatigue accumulates and you have to rotate some times. I’d give your argument more credit if the replacements had lost the match, but it was two starters playing in their regular positions that cost us today. Sorry, but the lineup changes were not the problem today.
Yes, dominated and did you notice I said "until the goal"
The Sounders were controlling possession and had create the most dangerous chances by far until that point. Which makes the mistakes all the more heartbreaking.
What best will prove where mistakes were made...
… will be what the starting line-up for the NEXT game is. If this same line-up is chosen, or if either Alonso OR Marshall are taken out, then maybe I’ll not blame the line-up primarily for the loss. But that will NOT happen. I bet Sigi choses a more traditional line-up for the next game with both Alonso and Marshall still on the pitch at the starting whistle.
So you blame Sigi and not the players who made the mistakes
The lineup was odd. It had everything to do with the double and injuries, but to blame the coach in this case just seems to be fishing for marlin in Lake Huron.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
once again, I’m not placing the entire blame on Sigi… but you can’t tell me that this, “ODD” as you put it, line-up didn’t have a large reason on why we lost the game? Do you really want to see this line-up again? It was a mistake, just like Alonso and Marshall’s … the line-up is a huge factor! If we had won, and scored several goals, I’d be the first to recommend giving it a try several more times… but we LOST…
I wouldn't mind this lineup again, actually
We produced some quality chances out of this, and we avoided punt and pray, which is something this team falls back on way too much. I’d sit Vagenas and put Evans back into central mid, and then scour the world for a forward who could finish.
This game wasn't lost today
It was lost during the off-season, where no effort was made to strengthen the squad. In fact, this is a weaker team than we had last year.
We just don’t have the personnel to convert scoring opportunities into goals. Which is why you wind up starting the guys who started today.
Which is not to excuse the two little-league defensive plays that led to both Toronto goals.
This game was lost when Alonso tripped on his own feet and gave the ball up to DeRosario
And when Marshall completely mishandled a pass and gave the ball to DeRosario again.
Other than Le Toux, this is pretty much the exact same team as last year. How are we weaker?
Take a step back people. This loss was basically down to two plays. This kind of thing could have happened which anyone on the field.
Who would have helped
Maybe I missed something, but we probably acquired the best available striker out there (N’kufo). Who else would be an improvement that was actually available?
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 25, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you talking abou this game though?
Because I would make a case that having Zakuani and Montero out there the full 90 would probably have helped us deliver on more of those chances, and having Hurtado and Gonzalez out there could have possibly prevented one or both of those missed clearances. That’s all I’m saying…
How could they have prevented the missed clearances?
By shoving Alonso and Marshall out of the way and cleared it themselves?
then you wouldn’t mind seeing more losses apparently. Cause that’s what a line-up which sits FOUR of your best players does.
I know Dave said this, but it bears repeating
This lineup, whatever you think of it, was borne out of necessity. We had numerous injuries and I’m sure we can chalk Zak and Fredy’s limited roll to longterm decisions. You take away those two huge mistakes and ask Evans — a player being considered for the USMNT at one point — to finish and this is not a game we lose and is probably one we win.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 25, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Apology
Would like to apologize for my behavior today. I’ll definitively be taking a break from watching/following the sounders and visiting the sites. It just the results/performance the past few weeks too much that i can take with the frustrations. Maybe one to two week break would probably be good.
You seem to handle it well, then
I wouldn’t call anything you said out of line. We understand fandom, after all. But don’t torture yourself, either. I know I’ll welcome your return.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 25, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
thank you. It just its more than just results rather than we get 0,1 point or 3 points its excitement of being able to enjoy a good game on performance of watch/following each game. Yes we got points in the past 4 out of 6 games. The performance isn’t up to where i can enjoy it. That’s why the break.
It just getting to the point I’m no longer excited and need the break. Its one thing if these were spread out through the season its another when its back to back to back etc of poor performance based on my own opinion. I’m still new to the sport.
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