Politics aside, Celtic is still disappointing
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 7:55 AM PDT
in Sounders: Friendlies
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Reaction was swift, opinionated and generally pretty negative regarding the Sounders' announcement Wednesday that Celtic FC would be one of the team's "friendly" opponents this year.
Reaction was far less heated about the other friendly opponent, Boca Juniors of Argentina (i'll get more into that later).
Sounders GM Adrian Hanauer told Don Ruiz of the Tacoma News Tribune, as well as others, that he and the team were taken by surprise that people would be upset about any of this.
"I caught wind of (the controversy) this morning. It was the first I heard that there were people upset at their coming. Soccer has been a political game over the years and just about every team we could think of to bring has some political baggage that it carries. I was thinking of Barcelona coming last year: There is a strong movement and conflict between Barcelona and Real Madrid, and that is deeply rooted politically. Celtic’s been here numerous times. The fans have been great. The games have been good. We try not to get too deeply involved in politics: Sounders FC. We’re working on other games in other regions of the world, and I guess I can say the Middle East, Israel, where we’re exploring some possibilities there. That’s deeply political as well. We’re just here running a soccer team and not taking sides. We just want to provide our fans with some good entertaining football."
For the sake of this article, we'll take Hanauer at face value, and assume this decision was made in good faith. We'll even ignore the fact that Celtic is a polarizing club, regardless of what side of the fence you're on.
Instead, I'd like to focus on something more straightforward: I'm just a bit disappointed as a soccer fan.
I know Celtic has as long and storied a history as just about any club out there (founded in 1888). I know that they have an enormous fan base (supposedly millions worldwide). I even know that as recently as 2003 the team was among the world's best, earning a spot in the UEFA Cup final.
But let's not kid ourselves about who the Sounders will be facing on July 18.
This is a team that is currently ranked 72nd in IFFHS, which ranks clubs around the world, and failed to advance to the knockout stage of the Europa League.
While there is no doubt that the club's supporters will turn out, I know that as a relatively casual follower of European football (a classification I think I share with many Sounders fans) this match seems like a significant step down from last year's friendly opponents Chelsea (currently No. 4 in IFFHS) and FC Barcelona (No. 1). Granted, almost anyone would have been a step down from those two, but with teams like Manchester United (No. 5 in IFFHS), AC Milan (one of the most internationally decorated clubs in the world) and Tottenham Hotspur (currently one of the top four teams in the EPL) all visiting the U.S., one can't help but feel disappointed.
Back in January, our own Dave Clark created a ranking system that assigned points to leagues based on the number of players which received at least 10 national team caps (Dave tells me he'll be updating this soon once actual rosters are announced). Using this system, the Scottish Premier League, of which Celtic is one of the two dominant teams, was ranked 26th with three players. MLS, the English Championship and the second level of the German Bundesliga were among the leagues with more likely World Cup representatives.
Robbie Keane, the Irish National team captain who's currently on loan from Tottenham, is probably the best known player on the squad. As good as he may be, no one is going to argue that he's the kind of player who transforms casual soccer fans into die-hard footy fanatics the way players like Barca's Messi or AC Milan's Ronaldinho have certainly done.
I'm sure Celtic will represent a brand of football that is above most, if not all, MLS sides. The Scottish League is considered the 26th best league in the world, according to IFFHS, while MLS is ranked 46th. I have no doubt that the Sounders will have their hands full, even if starters log significant minutes.
It's just that the Sounders have been telling us that they want to be taken seriously, not just as a good MLS side, but as one that has some aspirations of becoming world class. The entire concept of friendlies rubs many serious soccer fans wrong, as it has the feeling of a cynical ploy to sell a few thousand extra tickets. In this case, it comes essentially in the middle of the season and only seems to distract from the goal of winning multiple trophies.
At least with Boca Juniors, fans will be exposed to a different style of soccer than they've previously witnessed at Qwest Field. The team is among the most decorated in the world and is considered one of the top 15 teams over the past two decades. Sounders management deserves credit for going a bit outside the box with this selection, although it's unfortunate the game will be played on a Wednesday, May 26. (Sigi Schmid made a comment Wednesday that this game allows the team to not have a reserve game that week and would likely feature "some different people.")
It's harder to find the same kind of thinking with the scheduling of Celtic, which will play on a Sunday (and after a Thursday game). Not only have Celtic visited Qwest Field twice since 2003 (they also played there the following year), but the style of football will essentially by EPL-lite.
I'm sure Celtic will draw plenty of fans, and the atmosphere will undoubtedly be festive. At this point in the Sounders' young top-division history, I'd just like to think that mid-season distractions should be saved for special occasions. Right now, this doesn't feel like one.
UPDATE: Pre-sale for the Boca Juniors game has started.
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spoiled
Sorry, I know your heart is in the right place but are you honestly expecting the Champions League winner and a EPL top 4 team every year? Really?
Your first year was something special, but honestly you have to start learning to deal with reality. Yes the MLS officials suck, no you won’t get the best matches every single year (there are other markets in the US). Be happy you are getting one of the top known teams in all of Europe (I would bet 70-80% of people there know who Celtic is) and one of the best known teams in South America. Don’t forget you will also have CONCACAF Champions league matches.
You could be RSL and get a snowy day appearance by the USWNT (a depleted roster) and that followed up by the Mexican U21 team playing your bench players.
Most clubs would happy to have US Open Cup matches, CONCACAF Matches and two good international friendly matches. Yes, I know Seattle isn’t most teams, blah, blah, blah. Love you guys but come on are you really complaining about this?
Actually
I’m saying that I’d rather not have friendlies than have teams that aren’t clearly world class. Heck, I’d be OK if they only brought in one or even no friendlies if the reason for it was that they didn’t see any situations that warranted it. I’m not saying that Seattle deserves the best friendlies every year (although, let’s be honest, it’s almost all about money and Seattle can afford the better teams). What I am saying is that games like this provide an unnecessary distraction.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Seattle do deserve the best friendlies
Until the other teams can boast the amount of support that the Sounders do, they should be the 500lb gorilla of the league.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough
But it isn’t always about money, it is actually more often about open dates and available teams. Take a look at your schedule at the end of July and into early August, when most teams from Europe make trips to the US.
7/11- FC Dallas, 7/15-@ DC United, 7/18 Celtic, 7/25 Colorado, 7/31@ San Jose, 8/8 Houston, 8/14 @ Chivas. The premier league started on August 16th last year. Welcome to fixture congestion. Plus you will have a couple CONCACAF matches during that same time period.
I apologize for my use of the word spoiled, it was meant to reflect the menatality of many Sounders fans, not the author of the post.
Which would have made it perfectly acceptable to forgo friendlies
For all the reasons you pointed out, I would have had nothing negative to say if the team had instead moved two of the friendly dates to other games like U.S. Open Cup or CCL. And I’m guessing one of them already has, which I think is great.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I think what we certainly have to take into consideration here is that it is a World Cup year
Celtic coming mid-July? Well, who on the team is playing for their countries? A cursory glance at the list tells me that maybe the Korean is going. But most of those who are capped are capped for nations not going to the World Cup.
You can argue that Milan is coming to the DC, but on May 26, how sure are we that they will have their stars? You can also argue that the Mans and possibly Spurs have said that they are coming, but are they confirmed?
Let’s face it—we were lucky last year. Teams are not going to want to take their clubs on parades around the states if they are also watching most of their players go to SA. Let’s be happy with Boca Juniors and Celtic and look forward to the next announcement. But even more so, let’s look forward to June 11!
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 29, 2010 8:11 AM PDT reply actions
You seem to make a good case
For not bringing them in at all. If we’re going to ask season-ticket holders to pay full price for these games, they at least deserve to see MLS quality sides.
We were definitely lucky last year, but it’s also where expectations were set — rightly or wrongly. I’d have been perfectly fine with them saying “There were no teams we felt were worthy of using up season-ticket slots on, so here’s your money back.” And, yes, I realize that’s pretty naive.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I don't feel sorry for people buying the season tickets at all
You buy them very cheap compared to the other major sports. You buy them knowing that you are paying for three games that are exhibitions. You buy them knowing that the team could be anyone.
If you are worried about having to pay for a substandard team, don’t buy season tickets in the first place.
World Cup Year
But look at the caliber of teams coming to the States anyway.
How many would you say are of a lower caliber than Celtic?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
But I also said that so far, none of those have been confirmed, right?
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 29, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope
’Spurs are 100% certain to be in San Jose and New York.
AC Milan and Fiorentino are going to be in Montreal, playing the Impact
Manchester United will be at the All-Star Game
Man City has been confirmed on US Soil
Benfica, Sporting Lisbon
the list goes on
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I was thinking about that
If the goal is to just beat a European team, I suppose this gives us a decent shot.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The Sounders are going from a expansion team one year to the fans feeling some sense of entitlement the next
Unbelievable and disappointing. The NFL charges full price for preseason games that mean nothing and are against teams that we see all the time. There is more whining in one day regarding this than you hear all year about the Seahawks.
Even when the Yankees were awful, they were still the Yankees. Sports are always cyclical and Celtic will improve again. It would be a shame that someone would miss this game and years from now when Celtic is back on top think, I should have gone to that game.
NFL fans should be pissed, too
Paying full price for preseason games has always been one of the biggest ripoffs in all of sports. If Seahawks fans aren’t complaining about that, it’s only because they’ve been beaten into submission. I’d hate for MLS to start taking for granted its fans in the same way.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
More on NFL preseason
Fans know exactly what they’re getting, they buy those tickets never believing that the games will be anything but preseason games (still a ripoff, but one that is clear as day).
More to the point, that relationship is recipracory. Unless there’s something I don’t know, no such relationship exists here. If this were part of some kind of home-and-home exhibition, I’d be far more understanding. If we find out Sounders FC are being paid to play a preseason game against Celtic next year, I’ll happily lower my (already measured, imo) rhetoric.
I get why most teams need to schedule these kinds of games. The Sounders don’t strike me as needing the extra payday, though. If this is part of the plan to raise our global brand, it would be nice if that was how they were selling it. It would make the decision much more understandable.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, I can't spell reciprocity
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I know NFL exhibition games are ripoffs
But, that is the price of buying a season ticket. The price of buying a Sounders season ticket is that they may bring in a team that you are not happy with. It is not like the Sounders are bringing in a 2nd level club team from Qatar.
It is like getting a gift from a friend on your birthday. Are you going to criticize her if you don’t like the gift? Or are you going to be happy that she remembered?
This isn't a gift
People are paying real American currency for this game. The preseason NFL was a much better analogy, and articulates my point. If the Sounders had said “don’t expect Chelsea or Barca this year” when selling season-tickets, I’d have no argument. (And I must admit that I don’t have season-tickets, so maybe I’m a hypocrite…) They set the expectations, not me. I speak for me, and not Sounders fans in general. If other fans are disappointed, they have that right as well and we all have the duty to speak up when we don’t like what we’re seeing. We’re not entitled to anything, and it’s well within the Sounders’ rights to schedule whoever they want. It’s just that if they want to be treated like a world-class organization, they need to act like one. Something tells me Celtic FC wouldn’t schedule the Sounders in the middle of their season.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
So your definition of a world class organization is scheduling exhibition games?
I understand that everyone can have an opinion. But, lets get real. It’s an exhibition game. People are outraged over an exhibition game. Both sides (The Sounders and fans) have expectations. Adrian obviously thought that he met the expectation of what the Sounders promised.
ripoff
When I was buying season tickets this year (for the first time) I asked why the season ticket prices were being increased from $288 to $400. Their reasoning was that the exhibition games are expensive to put on. I have a hard time believing that Boca, Celtic, and TBD are more expensive to put on than Barca and Chelsea. I live in Spokane and my only purpose for buying season tickets wasmostly for the international games and some of the regular season games, and to sell the rest. So this is a HUGE let down for me. When the FO says they are raising prices for great exhibition games, then that is exactly what I expect. So yeah, I do feel ripped off. Now Im left to hoping that the third exhibition game is wayyyyyyyy better. It should be noted that in the season ticket package that games A and B are priced at $20, and game C is priced at $60. maybe that is some indication of what their intentions have been all along.
by River City Ultra on Apr 29, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
IIFHS Methodology?
The Uzbekistan League is ranked 33rd? Really?
It's definitely controversial
But it’s also the best available, as far as I know.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I like my system better
Uzbek clubs have done well in Asian Champions League play, better than MLS sides have in CCL
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Celtic are better than Boca Juniors at the moment
Celtic are being painted in bad light here, Celtic fans are amongst the best fans in the world…
Joan Laporta, Barcelona – “Celtic supporters are the best in Europe”
Xavi, Barcelona – “Celtic like Barcelona are more than a club”
Clarence Seedorf, AC Milan – “Celtic fans are some of the greatest supporters I know,”
Carlo Ancelotti, Chelsea(AC Milan) – "This was the essence of sport. To hear the Celtic fans singing and chanting after the game was incredible."
William Gaillard, UEFA – “Every team should follow Celtic’s fan behaviour and that mentality”
Sky Sports Commentator – “You may think your fans are good but take look at these, you may have it good here at Anfield but the Celtic fans do it best! Superb stuff.”
Jose Mourinho, Inter Milan(Chelsea) – “When I was at Porto my team also played in the UEFA Cup final against a Scottish side – but it was Celtic. I’ve never seen such emotional people. It was unbelievable!”
Cristiano Ronaldo, Real Madrid(Man Utd) – “The Celtic fans are incredible. It is always great to play there.”
Also people talking about our style of play, Celtic play nice football, passing on the ground with many flair players – watch the star player McGeady on youtube and they have a history of playing attacking football known as “the Celtic way”.
They are also seen as the 2nd biggest club in the UK along with Manchester Utd and have the 2nd biggest stadium in the Uk behind Manchester Utd.
It is an honour to play this team.
Why exactly do we care about other teams' fans when playing at home against them?
I’m not planning a holiday to Scotland here.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
You do not know Celtic fans then!
There will be atleast 10,000 Celtic fans who will go to this match. Celtic have a convention that supporters can attend each summer in Las Vegas which is uaully attended with 15,000 supporters – tickets to go cost around £2,000 which is about $4,000. 100,000 Celtic fans travelled from Scotland to Seville in the south of Spain in 2003 and were awarded the FIFA and UEFA for the UEFA Cup final. 15,000 Celtic fans attended the Wembley Cup in london last year in two friendlies. 15,000 went to Manchester for Roy Keanes testimonial, 15,000 went to Newcastle for Alan Shearer’s and Peter Beardsley’s.
Celtic are also chosen for most players testimonials such as Bobby Moore, Tony Adams, Roy Keane, Alan Shearer, Ryan Giggs, Alfredo Di Stefano etc etc etc as the huge number of fans that travel.
Celtic will have more fans in the USA this summer than any other Europea or South American team who go.
If Celtic is the second biggest club in the UK
They certainly don’t have the income to show it. They didn’t make the top 20 by Deloitte, nor by Forbes.
As for the stuff about fan behavoir, this isn’t the time or place for that discussion.
This discussion is purely about the level of competition.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
This because of Television money
English clubs get between £30m and £48m a year from Sky TV to show their League on TV. Celtic and Rangers get £1m from Sky TV, which is why Celtic and Rangers have both tried to be allowed into the English League before but smaller English teams do not want Celtic and Rangers in because they will go to the top end of the League and it will be worse for their clubs.
I'd also like to welcome you to the blog
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
The biggest clubs in the UK are
1. Man Utd
2. Celtic
3. Liverpool
3. Rangers
4. Arsenal
6. Chelsea
Chelsea have only become bigger because of their money which has attracted new fans.
How are you judging "biggest?"
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Biggest
In that the size of the club, the fanbase of the club and history of the Club.
Obviously there are better teams but this comes down to Sky TV money.
Only Manchester Utd sell more Merchandise than Celtic out of all british clubs.
Out the 25 richest clubs in Europe, Celtic bring in the highest % income from Merchandise sales because of the fanbase. Where as the other clubs get all their money from TV companies and sponsorships because they are from bigger countries,
Newcastle has to be on that "biggest" list
because they are in the top 20 for revenue as a CHAMPIONSHIP team
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Yes they are one of the biggest clubs
They probably come 7th now after Chelsea ahead of Everton and Aston Villa after those teams there are no other big clubs there are just normal ones like Sunderland, West Ham and Tottenham.
Its not all about money eiither
If Celtic played in the English League we would be probably the 2nd richest club in the League behind Man Utd in terms of turnover as we would get the £30million from Sky, which would automatically make us probably the 5th richest, our sponsorship deals would probably quadruple because we’d be playing in the English League and on TV across the world and we would end up 2nd richest possibly even richer than Man Utd.
You shouldnt underestimate the size of Celtic, they also have the most supporters clubs in USA of any soccer team!
So now let's arrange this in order of squad talent:
1. United
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Manchester City
5. Liverpool
6. Tottenham
7. Aston Villa
8. Rangers
9. Fulham
10. Celtic
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably correct
However Rangers do not have talent, they are a solid team based on a defensive formation with experienced players, in terms of talent and talented players theyre not up there.
Defence actually takes talent, which is something the flair teams love to forget
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
If you knew Rangers you would know what I mean
They have a 40 year old player in defence that says it all lol
Inter Milan start a 36 year old left back
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Javier Zanetti
I know he’s a great player, he is not Davie Weir though, Davie Weir is rank rotten lol
Zanetti is not a normal human being
He hasn’t slowed down at all. He just keeps putting in great performances year after year. I’m almost convinced he’s an Immortal in the style of Highlander.
Did I miss something?
Are Rangers also playing the Sounders in a friendly this year? Because I’d be disappointed if they were coming too, at least if that was one of the games in the season-ticket package.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Money, money, mooooney
But it is relevant in that the stadium needs to be sold out by the Sounders for these games.
Lets face it they are trying to maximize revenue from this. 30k extra tickets to be sold, who can they sell out with, but not have to pay a ton of money to.
Barca = a lot of money to come here, Chelsea too.
I really don’t care much about these friendlies, I want to win MLS Cup and CCL if we try.
But if this helps us by having 10k Celtic fans pay enourmous ticket prices, cool.
Celtic player McGeady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN-nGDRIduE
Celtic fans last year at a friendly in England
A list of players we saw last year who are better than McGeady:
All of Barcelona
Most of Chelsea
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Donovan
maybe Ljungberg still
Keller
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Beckham played in the MLS final, did he not?
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Javier Morales as well
and I think is a damn fine player
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
True
However Chelsea are a more boring team than Celtic with rubbish fans.
Chelsea have scored ninety three goals this season
I don’t give a damn about the fans. Celtic are a second rate team in a fourth rate league.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Why? its only a friendly match
You will be playing Chelsea Reserves if you played them, Celtic Reserves beat Chelsea Reserves 5-4 in January!
Chelsea started their typical lineup
Not Reserves
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Not quite
Deco was holding, Sturridge paired with Anelka
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
This is a World Cup year!
Big teams with all their players at the World Cup will be taking their Reserves and resting their players until the start of the season.
Celtic will only have 5/6 players at the world cup.
We saw every first team player except Essien, Mikel, and Drogba last year
They were given the week off because of WC qualifying duty, if I remember correctly
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Essien played
I beleive he and fucito swapped jerseys IIRC
I have the pic at home
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Not in a World Cup year though
Look at the friendlies your teams played in 2006 it will be the Reserve teams of the likes of Barcelona and Man Utd.
Dozens of clubs with World Cup players are visiting
your theory will be tested
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Nope
Essien definitely didn’t. Turns out Mikel did though.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Essien was on the bench and Fucito sought him out afterwards. He clearly had that man’s jersey in his sights. I thought it was pretty hilarious.
I talked to him about it
You are correct, he was targeted.
It looks like that photo died when I came to SBN
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Don't understand the disappointment.
Celtic is a great club and no more polarizing than Boca. I assume you’re aware of “events” that usually correspond with the Boca v River derby. Plus, I can’t see anyone complaining if England came to the US for a friendly… same political conflict, different side. Sounders have a lot going for them (great supporters, great coach, great city, etc), and playing top clubs who will push the team to greater heights and improve the quality in the side. I say well done, and I’ll be in Seattle for the match!
So, let's be super crystal clear
This has nothing to do with politics. I’m pretty sure it’s in the title. If you want to debate the quality of the team, by all means I’m all ears. Let’s at least try to keep it on the field, though.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
What do you mean politics anyway?
What do you think Celtic are?
Celtic have the most friendly fans anywhere I would say, there is never any trouble and we support our team greatly with several supporters groups like the Green Brigade, Comrades, Jungle Bhoys etc
Rangers are the club with bad history.
Celtic were started by an Irish Catholic immigrant of the Irish famine who set up Celtic to raise money for food for the poor people of Glasgow, the poor people were other Irish Catholics who moved during the famine and couldnt get jobs because they were Catholic in the UK.
Rangers were just started like other Football clubs but Rangers the other team in Glasgow then took the stance of “us against them” and would not sign Catholic players, this went on until 1989, only 20 years ago did they sign their first Catholic player.
Celtic have never discriminated.
I mean let's keep politics out of it, that's what I mean
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Ok
Just that politics over here concerning Celtic can mean any amount of stuff.
There is a lot of politics involving Celtic and Rangers.
Celtic are left-wing
Rangers are right-wing
Celtic associate themselves with Palestinian Freedom, Irish Freedom, Basque Freedom, Catalunya etc
Rangers associate them selves with loyalist beliefs about Britain, Northern Ireland and have been known to support the nazi’s, their fans do the nazi salute at matches etc
Most Celtic fans are Catholic, most Rangers fans are protestant
Celtic fans are anti-fascist and anti-secterian
Rangers fans are bigots and secterian
Which is the exact point
Rather than wasting our time discussing the various politics of either side, something as a football fan that interests me very little, I’d much rather discuss whether Celtic players are worth getting excited over. So far, I’m unconvinced.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Its only a friendly though
I guess both teams fans have different thoughts about the match.
For Celtic fans, its a chance to go to th the USA and party with another teams fans.
For your fans lt looks like you want to see big teams players.
That's fair
And I’m sure Celtic fans will find many like-minded fans here that are happy to have a good time with you. Heck, I’ll probably be one of them. This isn’t about the fans, which I think I made pretty clear are large in number and enjoy a good time.
Let me ask you this: How excited would you be for a MLS team to visit Celtic Park, while paying full price for the ticket and not being given the choice whether to buy it or not?
This is honestly not meant to denigrate the team or its fans, but merely to express disappointment and a lack of excitement.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
When you live about 5,000 miles
away from the best teams in the world, people get really excited at the prospect of playing a big name. For many of us, teams like ManU and Barca are teams we will only see on T.V. unless they come play a friendly here. When you live closer to those teams then I do from say NY (living in Seattle) then I’d imagine it’s not as uncommon to watch in person that caliber of play.
Calm down Seattle
Sounders fans are hilarious! Who do you think you are after 2 years? Celtic are a massive team ( in a bad league, not their fault) who any North American team should be honoured to have. McGeady, Keane, Boroc, Kamara, Hinkle, McCourt, Brown……great players amazing history, one of the top two teams in the UK. (it’s a fact)! Seattle doesn’t even have the top fans in the MLS! That trophy still rests in Toronto and guess who’s playing in Toronto on July 16th? Celtic vs. Man U! There’s a reason why! Then Celtic play Rangers at Fenway Park on July 21st, an event which is expected to bring over 40 million to Bostons local economy. Then when they decide to honour your little franchise with their presence during their tour, you complain? Hilarious! Take your heads out of your you know what! Be happy anyone knows who you are!!!
Thanks for blessing us
But we don’t have any problem selling tickets.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
If Celtic are one of the top two teams in the the UK you'd imagine that they'd be better at football
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Celtic are one of the top 2 clubs not best teams
We’re not better at Football because we come from a small country Scotland with a population of only 5 million. It doesn’t help that the UK links Scotland and England and England have a population of about 50million 10 times bigger than us which means all their clubs are rich and buy any of our best players.
If Celtic played in England then Celtic would be as big or bigger bigger and better teams than Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool as would Rangers.
But we dont.
Celtic make around £20million a year on selling merchandise which is more than all other clubs in the UK except Man Utd. It’s also something like the 7th most in Europe and yet we are only a team from one of the smaller countries in Europe.
But all the other teams get more money from TV and because they are on TV across Europe or the World they get more money from Sponsorship and even being on Tv etc more helps them sell more merchandise.
Celtic and Rangers are big clubs trapped in a small League in a small country similar to Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV. Trying to stay the same level as teams from Spain, England, Italy, Germany, France, Turkey and Russia which all come from big Leagues, in big Countries that give those teams more money.
It is a good thing that Scottish and Dutch clubs have remained a fairly good level when you consider the siz\e of our country and the TV money we get compared to other Leagues. We should in reality be as bad as Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Croatian, Czech teams yet we have remained above that standard.
I accept that it's difficult to maintain a standard of play in an awful league
However, it’s not my problem. What I care about is the standard of play that I pay to see. I expect the Sounders to be a mediocre side compared to teams in top leagues. Fine. It’s MLS.
When ‘big’ sides come to town though, I don’t care about history or fandom or whatever. I care about the on-field product. Yeah, Celtic are at a disadvantage, but that doesn’t make up for the fact that I’ll be suffering through worse play that I did last year*.
*Actually, I won’t, as the ticket will be given/sold away, but you get the drift.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
P.S.
Politics should have nothing to do with anything anyway. There are reasons for them on all sides and those reasons go so far beyond the realm of sport that nobody hidden up in the north west, not to mention anywhere else in North America, could begin to understand the history of them anyway! Well just keep on living our stress free little lives over here and try be humble when legend try to play with us. At least we will in the rest of the country. I guess the great Seattle Sounders are a little different?!!! Wow!!!
The Sounders are different from the rest of the country
The fact that supporters from everywhere else don’t realise this is mind-blowing. There are only two MLS teams that anyone outside North America knows: The Galaxy and the Sounders. The rest of the league is essentially meaningless to anyone except MLS fans.
And yeah, I have massive difficulty understanding the history of football teams, what with being all English and all.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
PS the next person that posts about politics in this thread will have that post deleted
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Better team????
The only reason Celtic are not a better team right now is because of the league they play in, which they’re trying to get out of. But let’s look at that a little closer. I. The past 3 and a half years I. The Champions League, they have wins over Man U, Benfica and AC Milan. And they have ties against Man U and Barcelona, and have made it out of the group stage to the final 16 twice. That’s pretty damn ‘Good’!!! And the only reason they were knocked out tbs past year was when they came up against Arsenal who they put up a good showing agai st but came up short. (they eventually went to the quarter finals). So I think they’re good enough for some wanabees up in Seattle. Trust me, they are!!!
Seriously dude. You just joined SBN to come in and do this?
Learn the reply button. Also, we understand that Celtic used to be good. They are not exciting to us though and you are the one who needs to accept that your precious Scottish side is boring.
We have got worse over the years though sadly.
But like you said we are still one of the biggest clubs in Europe and regularly play in the Champions League and do ok.
In the last 10 years we have beaten Juventus, Man Utd, Liverpool, Barcelona, AC Milan, Valencia, Ajax, Benfica, Lyon in Europe and have reached the UEFA Cup Final(now known as the Europa League) and reached the Last 16 of the Champions League twice. We also once reached the Quarter Final of the UEFA Cup. We knocked Liverpool out of Europe in 2003 and knocked Barcelona out in 2004.
And Barca trampled Arsenal this year and Liverpool falls to seventh.
History isn’t what anyone is arguing here.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 29, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
By the way
The Sounders are one two teams people know outside the US. Hahahaha where do you get this crap, nobody know and trust me nobody cares. My wife’s from the UK and am over there quite a bit and trust me no one knows the ‘Sounders’ exist and anyone who’s telling you they do mr. ‘English’, is putting you on. No one knows about the great Sounders except the great North American fans, and aside from David Beckham, nobody know the Galaxy either! And as much as you don’t like to hear it, Toronto FC have been sold out every gae since they’re first, and have a 7 year waiting list for season tickets. So lies about them aren’t gonna make you the greatest fans, unfortunatly that’s been claimed. And since they’re the sole team from a country, the 5 th biggest market inNorth America, they have opportunities that the ‘great’ city of Seattle could only dream about! Celtic, Man U, July 16th. Good for them. Truth hurts?
Well done on marrying far above your station
Why is ‘English’ quoted? I’m lying about my nationality now? What a bizarre argument to make.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Your accent gave you away
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
they didn't sell out last game
Announced crowd of about 18,000. Capacity about 21,000. They’ve got great fans, but there’s no reason to make them out to be any better than they are.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
No, they don't
Not in MLS
Tickets SOLD for ALL MLS sides
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Dude, I was just in England and everyone who was a footy fan responded with "Sounders!" when I told them I was from Seattle.
They are impressed by our club.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 29, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what makes Celtic - Celtic
Last night Celtic fans corteo to Hampden Park for the Celtic V Rangers under 19’s Scotish Cup final – 8,000 fans went to watch the under 19s team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4tPTVjp3zQ&feature=player_embedded
Fans again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FUrRgxrimQ&feature=player_embedded#!
You’ll Never Walk Alone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awositUJYLM&feature=related
We love you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59e2Np0IFgU&feature=related
Your fans our great, I'm sure
I don’t think we’re being asked to pay to watch them, though.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
you should lol
The fans are the life and soul of football.
Jock Stein – First British manager to win the European Cup(Champions League) with Celtic “Football without the fans is nothing”
Especially for friendlies you need to have a good atmosphere as the players never get out of first gear.
I can honestly say that Celtic have wonderful fans
I can also honestly say that Celtic don’t have a particularly good team, and that my priority is on watching the game rather than the fans. Sorry.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesnt matter sometimes your good soemtimes your not
“We only know that theres going to be a show and the glasgow Celtic will be there” – as the song goes.
Sure
I’d still much rather play Celtic when they’re good than when they’re bad.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Its irrelevant though
I know your from America and dont get many chances to see all the star names of world football but friendlies dont matter to these star players anyway, all you do is watch them stroll about the pitch for sometimes only half the match. They dont try friendlies are a rip-off.
You should only care about going to see your own team.
Celtic have played Man Utd countless times in friendlies in the last 10 years myabe about 6 times, we’ve also met 4 times in Europe and will be playing another friendly again this summer and the friendly matches themselves are boring but the fans always have a good time.
My team is Chelsea and I am 'from' Milton Keynes
I have season tickets to the Sounders because I live over here. I don’t get to not buy friendly games.
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
So answer me this
How excited would Celtic fans be about hosting Sounders FC and our fans during the middle of a season in which they harbor hopes of winning a title or two?
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I know what you mean here
Celtic played a friendly last night against the Dutch team AZ Alkmaar and it was boycotted by fans, only 2,000 went and it was the lowest crowd in our history lol It was free to season ticket holders and we have 45,000 season ticket holders yet only 2,000 people turned up.
8,000 fans went to watch the Youth team instead.
So I can see why your not too bothered epsecially in the middle of the sesson but youve ust got to make the best of it it wouldnt matter if you were playing Arsenal or Portsmouth the match isnt going to be good.
Thank you for acknowledging my point
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You take your team seriously
And are insulted by senseless friendlies. That’s what world-class fans do. Maybe we’re not there yet, but if we want to get there that’s the attitude we need to take.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just the way the article at the top is written though
Why are you not interested in playing us but dont mind Boca Juniors, we are a better team than them they are rubbish struggling in their own League, we are a bigger club than them, we will bring more fans etc
It's a novelty
We’ve never seen Boca. they play a different brand of football than we’ve been exposed to in person. Celtic was here a few years ago (2003 and 2004). It’s nothing new.
It’s the senselessness of the game that I object to. The only reason for playing it seems to be that Celtic fans will watch anything, at least from what you guys are saying. The stadium will be full, I’m sure. That’s just not a good enough reason, imo.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like the Boca Juniors game either
by Graham MacAree on Apr 29, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather have neither than both
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Which reminds me
During the last World Cup, I was in Europe and was talking to semi-drunk Englishmen while watching a game. Argentina was playing someone. They asked who we wanted to win. I said I didn’t care. Their reply?
“Don’t care! Haven’t you heard of a little something called the Falkland’s War?”
Oop. Politics again…
Happens all the time, that’s what happens in football in all leagues. It’s the way it is. Trust me Celtic aren’t begging Seattle to play. Playing a team like Celtic who have a higher calibre then th Sounders will probably help to improve their game. It should be a possitive for the team on the field as well as make the franchise a little money and a little more of a name for themselves in Europe. Win Win!
Sounders in just over a year
Are the most profitable team in the history of their league.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
who said that?
We’re not running around claiming 25 consecutive sellouts. Your “facts” were wrong. It’s OK. Just acknowledge it and move on.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Celtic hold the 2 crowd records in European football
Biggest crowd at a European match, and biggest crowd at a domestic match.
European was 136,000 against Leeds Utd in the 1970 European Cup semi-final
Domestic match was 146,000 against Aberdeen in 1937 Scottish Cup final
How can I put this more clearly?
This isn’t about your fan support. How do you not get that?
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
was only saying
I know our team is not up to your high standards you demand only the best players in world football to grace your stadium for frendly matches
are we up to yours?
something tells me no
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
it doesnt matter to me
for Celtic its only a pre-season friendly we play all kinds of teams
we’re playing you, St Pauli(have you heard of them?), Arsenal, Lyon, Man Utd and maybe Rangers.
Last season we won the Wemblley Cup which was us, Barcelona, Tottenham and Al Ahly we also played Cardiff(have you heard of them), Sunderland and Benfica.
Preseason being the key word
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
We were there in preseason
I have no idea what kind of crowds showed up.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Montreal, Seattle, New York, San Jose
Have all played in Europe
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
We were just in Spain a couple months back, right?
I fucking hate you Mariners
by kentroyals5 on Apr 29, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, they are
Part of why Montero is in the eyes of some Euro clubs
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I happen to know for a fact there is a 7 year wait for season tickets in Toronto. Wherebare my facts wrong?
You said they sold out every game
Toronto FC have been sold out every gae since they’re first.
That’s demonstrably untrue. And the fact that they have 17,000 waiting list doesn’t necessarily mean it’s seven years long.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Not Canada... Same for all sports up there.
And yes that true, Tickets sold does not mean people show up to every game especially when the season starts at the end of Canadian winter.
who's touchy again?
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Uninpressive
Yeah impressive untill you realize they play in a 67 000 seat stadium. Once you take that into account they’re not even half full. The difference with the teams in Europe that you ‘stack them up with’ is that almost all of them less or more than Seattle are filled to capacity. Talk to me when the stadiums not half empty!!!
This thread is hilarious.
Keep it up boys! You’re doing great!
Hate to put a damper on things
But I’ve started hiding comments that just trail too far off. Feel free to debate the merits of this issue, but it’s started to descend into the personal and nonsensical. It was fun, but I think it has to stop.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
it was my accent, wasn't it?
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
laughter is the best medicine
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
What!?
Personal, sure, but the nonsensical ones were the best!
Censorship!
Unfortunately
The tools at my disposal are more machete than exacto knife.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 29, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
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