Searching for a Sounders Icon
by Dave Clark on Apr 30, 2010 6:00 AM PDT
in Life in the Sound
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PrintWith the news about Walter Jones (FieldGulls with all your news/reaction) retiring it started me thinking. Me thinking can get scary. In this case, I just started to disappoint myself.
You see Jones is certainly the greatest Seahawk of all time. He is also certainly the greatest offensive lineman of his era. But it gets even crazier he might be the greatest NFL player of all-time. He was the best at what he did. The League and its fans have a greater appreciation for the position due to Jones.
Jones isn't the only Seattle icon that will be calling it quits this year though. Ken Griffey Jr (The best AL player of the 90s) will be done at some point this year. He also is a Seattle icon. If you think Mariners there are only two names that come to mind. Edgar and the Kid.
In all three cases the players started their careers with a Seattle team, and all three will end with Seattle as well.
But in Major League Soccer we have unique challenges. It is a league where good and great players move on to leagues in Europe. Average players rarely become icons. Landon Donovan, DeRo, Twellman, and Moreno are icons. But none are in Seattle. Keller is famous, but his stature has nothing to do with his time in Seattle.
There are a few players for the Sounders who could become that icon, but it would take a unique set of circumstances. First, it will take 3-4 years in Seattle at the start of their career and later a return for a few years as well. I don't think the Sounders are likely to keep a player for a decade. Maybe with the new DP rules that may change, but it is so hard to convince a player to forgo Europe and stay in Seattle, in a league that is doing so poorly in its continental championship that it has formed a committee to increase the chances of winning.
Currently the Sounders have a few players who could become this type of person. But it takes more than one good season. It takes years, and years, and years. It takes highlight reels.
Could Steve Zakuani become great? maybe, but would he really return to Seattle to end his career with a heart that lives in four different communities on three continents?
Osvaldo Alonso is a solid to great player as well. Could he define the the Defensive Midfielder in a way that even non-soccer fans appreciate it? Can he score enough? His language skills wouldn't be a problem. Jones never talked to the media. Griffey didn't really talk much either.
Can the Sounders ever have the type of player of a Walter Jones, a Griffey, an Edgar? Can they even have the next Landon Donovan?
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Nail on the head
I think you hit the nail on the head right here. There are so many out there that WANT the players to go to Europe. You should have read the blogs about Landon. It is BETTER for the MLS if he leaves !?!?!
We need to be able to keep those players here. Having a McBride here ( I realize he played in Europe for a while ), is a big key. Zakuani is the perfect choice.
ps. you forgot the SuperSonics players? Downtown Freddie Brown !?!? Are you kidding me ? I will never watch another minute of NBA action, but most of the icons ARE SuuuuuperSonics !
Freddie Brown is nowhere close to Walt, 'Gar, Kid
I love the Sonics (I worked for them for a while), and they too have a pantheon
But Walt is possibly the best player to play the game – EVER
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I think it will be Alonso, if we're seeking someone from the original MLS squad
He is excellent at his position but not so wonderful that he will likely move away from the country soon.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 7:41 AM PDT reply actions
It will take time but
it will be interesting to see what happens as this club (and MLS) continues to grow to see which players will become the icons. I think the Sounders have a few potential players Zakuani and Alonso are two… Depending on what they decide to do later in their careers Hurtado and Montero (if he ever fills out his potential) are also possibilities.
If he ever fills out his potential
Montero will be playing far, far away from Seattle.
More than likely which is why I said depending on what he decides to do later in his career. Or maybe even depending on how much the MLS can grow during his lifetime…. I mean he’s only 22 still so there are still a lot of decisions he has to make and a lot of growth the MLS could potentially go through.
Although I’m sure you’re right if he can get a decent club in Europe he’s leaving and more than likely never coming back.
Not possible in MLS as is
Most sports in the U.S. are played at arguably the highest levels of that particular sport. This is not true of soccer. As long as MLS is not a ‘destination’ for players like Europe is, it is simply impossible to have a player who is at the peak of the sport playing on an MLS team, even for 3-4 years IMO. Some good (even the occasional very good) player will spend time in MLS – hopefully increasingly so – usually at the beginning or end of a career, but with any player who has the ability to be talked about as being among the best in the sport will be in Europe, where the history, fame, and money are all greater than here.
The best the Sounders can hope for IMO is a player who is consistently the best at his position in the MLS who stays for a long period of time, through the peak of his career. Alonso might get there, but I don’t see any other current Sounder that could fulfill that. IMO the best hope for the future is another American icon from the local area, a la Keller, who ends up staying home and playing for a while rather than going to Europe.
Do you really think Lando will be here next year, though?
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
No, for the people that say it isn't possible in MLS
They are ignoring that not only is it possible, it has happened in MLS.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
So do you think he will be Galaxy's icon, even if he goes off to the EPL next season?
Or do you think the Galaxy will view it as traitorous?
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Similar to Griffey
Many fans won’t appreciate it.
If he comes back and ends his career in LA all will be forgiven
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I don't see why they'd have reason to complain
He’s given them more than he should have already.
Donovan is good, but
not on a comparative level to the players you’re talking about in other sports. He’s very good, no question, I’d say the best player in MLS, but among the best in the sport? I’m not sure I’d agree with that.
I do think the Sounders could eventually have a player who’s as good as Donovan. It’s hard to say if they will.
For whom?
I think Donovan is an icon for the US team for sure, and for LA, but also for San Jose i’d guess. Donovan reminds me of Randy Johnson, Tremendous iconic player for one team, goes to another team and is even better (Mariners/Diamondbacks; San Jose/LA Galaxy)
Oh what could have been...
As I was reading through this the player I felt best represented the Sounders was Le Toux. If he was still here and producing as much as he is for Philly I could see him being the face of the team. Sure he may not be the best player but his heart is what Sounders fans seem to love about their players more than their skill.
Zak or Alonso
I can see Zak or Alonso becoming this. Maybe Hurtado as well. The catch is they all would have to stay here instead of going on to bigger leagues. I have a feeling Alonso will be here for as long as we want him. Zak maybe, I think Hurtado will be gone at some point sadly.
Zak is too good
My completely uninformed opinion is that he will be an MLS superstar next year and be gone to Europe the year after.
Agreed
I completely agree that this is possible. However, i have hope that he likes it here enough to take a dp contract and stay. Montero would be in this list as well except he consistantly says he wants to go to Europe. I haven’t heard Zak say his dream is to transfer to a bigger club. Plus I think Zak will be the better player, esp if he can get in better shape and play for the full 90 minutes for once. haha
Maybe Alonso, but I think it's more likely no one
MLS isn’t and will never be a destination league. I usually don’t like to make such absolute statements, but the fact is that even if the level of investment in MLS skyrocketed, the best it can offer is play against other MLS teams, and maybe some play against CONCACAF competition, in which high caliber competition is sparse.
On the other hand, playing for any team in Europe, on the other hand, could put you up against the best players in the world, and against the top clubs in the world. Even CSKA Moscow, all the way over in Russia, has the opportunity to play against such teams as Man U, Sevilla, and Inter. Because of this, players are getting seen by the likes of Alex Ferguson and José Mourinho, and maybe they could join one of Europe’s superclubs.
%
What percentage of their games are against the competition you are talking about ?
My guess very little.
Most of it is against teams that are not going to win anything, not going to even Europa, (and quite frankly it shows. ESPN2 showed a game Sunday AM, I don’t think either team gave a hoot)
IF MLS can get even close to the salaries those secondary teams are paying, the talent will all leave to come to MLS. Why wouldn’t they ? So they can finish in 8th to 12th place every year and hope they don’t have a bad year and get relagated ?
Was there ANY doubt at all which teams had a chance to win LaLiga ? Playing for the other 18 has to really suck. MLS has a lot to offer. Unfortunately salary isn’t part of that.
Wait, what? Are you talking about the Everton v Fulham game?
Are you seriously suggesting that the team which came back multiple times to make it to the Europa League final didn’t “give a hoot”?
Dude, I understand that you have some issue with overseas football, but back up your statements.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
that is exactly what I am saying
Neither team gave a hoot.
Sure they cared in a game that meant something. Who wouldn’t ?
But the EPL season has meant nothing for Fulhman for a long time now….and it shows.
You seriously thought they were trying ? or you didn’t watch ?
I watched.
They sent out a weakened side—because they DO care about Europa.
The point you made made it sound like they didn’t give a ^&%) about Europa, and it also made it sound like Everton doesn’t care about the league—even thought they’re fighting like hell to get to seventh.
Stop letting your anit-EPL and anti-Euro bias color every statement.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Please say that to others
Fair enough, but what about the anti MLS guy above ?
He backs up his statements at least.
I can respect people who have reasonable arguments
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Must
have missed the part where he backed up the 6,000 people in Dallas and getting booted when you complain…
When was the 6,000 people in Dallas ?
Wow, you have a serious bias and then accuse me ? WOW.
Are you missing the part where all you do is look at a screen and say that people playing are playing for nothing?
At least attendance is googleable:
FCD drew an announced 8,247 Saturday night after pulling 15,905 fans in the home opener and 6,524 and 6,813 in the previous home matches.
It is insanely well-known amongst anyone following the MLS that Dallas has ridiculously low numbers. What is not known among fans of other football is how one can qualify “giving a hoot”
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
You know what, let's drop this before this thread really goes off the rails like yesterday.
I feel bad for the poor authors of this site.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
This one's not as entertaining
Can you two get a little more riled up please?
Plus
the point was the competition was so great in Europe. I said it really wasn’t…now you say, you are right it wasn’t they played a bunch of subs….but I am anti Euro ?
It seems like I was right on.
I said they played a few subs domestically so that they could compete IN EUROPE.
Where they get noticed by other teams, as was pointed out below.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Stand firm
What percentage of their games are against the competition you are talking about ?
My guess very little.
I stand firm. 1/2 of the teams in the EPL have zero chance at anything from the first kick-off and the second quarter of them are fighting to make the secondary playoffs for part of the season, then don’t care much in the end.
Considering the fact that I just wrote about how every game save one involved relegation or European play this year
I still completely disagree with your EPL stance.
To answer your other question, I believe that a team entering in the first qualifying round of Europa and progressing all the way to the final plays 19 games, which is about 50% of what they play in domestic leagues.
by Kirsten Schlewitz on Apr 30, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The World Cup is a tiny percentage of a player's game over his career
But that hardly matters, does it? Same for the Euros, but ask Andrei Arshavin how many of those games it took to put his name on the list of major European clubs.
What are these things that MLS has to offer? Playing in Frisco in front of 6,000 people? Getting fouled constantly, and then getting booted from the game when you complain?
From an individual player’s career standpoint, it’s stupid to leave a mid-table La Liga team to come play for MLS. You’re basically dropping yourself completely off the radar of any major teams in Europe. Playing for a mid-table (or even lower) team can get you noticed by good managers and that can pay off enormously later on. Here’s a concrete example: when Mourinho took over at Inter, one of his first targets was Frank Lampard. After a long period of “will he go, will he stay”, Lampard finally signed a new contract with Chelsea. Immediately afterward, Inter signed Sulley Muntari from Portsmouth.Muntari was known to Mourinho because of the time he spent with a mid-table team, a team that’s currently imploding and going to be relegated this year. A few years later, Muntari could very well play in the Champions’ League final. What do you think he chances of playing for Inter would have been if he’d been playing for San Jose?
On the other hand, Beckham had to arrange loans with Milan for Capello to even consider his inclusion in the World Cup squad. Playing here in the US just wasn’t good enough. Even if the salaries increase, the level of exposure to top managers will always been much, much lower.
Good example
Bad commentary on the MLS, but good examples.
Still seems a little pie in the sky, but maybe a very small chance of getting to play for one of the elite teams makes it worth all the losing.
Chances of playing for Milan from MLS ?
IF you are Gooch and it is AC, pretty good.
Point proven
Maybe I am helping your case, as gooch didn’t start in MLS. ;-)
Best ever?
I don’t think you have to be the best in the world at your position to become a team legend. Moreno isn’t the best striker in the world but he is a legend in DC. NKufo isn’t the best in the world but he is a legend for FC Twente. The same could be said about a lot of players. Seattle has a great example in detlef schrempf. He was never the best player in the league but he is tremendously popular in this city.
icons
DC fan here, agree that Moreno is an icon. Another player who is a DC icon is Ben Olsen, more for heart than world-beating skill. Think that kind of player can develop a following in Seattle too. There are a lot of players who are good MLS players who aren’t good enough to make the jump. Think Donovan is an enigmatic exception to the general rule that big talent doesn’t stick around.
For the Seattle players… Montero won’t be around probably plus he seems to be lacking in the character dept. to be an icon. Keller already is an icon but not because of Seattle. Maybe Zakwani? Don’t know much about his personality though. Think an icon has to have personality.
Too soon to say
Walter Jones was 2 years old the day the Seahawks entered the NFL.
Griffey was 7 and Ichiro 4 when the Mariners entered MLB.
Gary Payton wasn’t even born when the Supersonics joined the NBA.
It is way to early to be thinking about who “Mr. Sounder” is.
Of course...
There were other Mr. Seahawks and Mr. Sonics before the people who currently occupy those thrones. I’d argue that there’s at least a decent chance of someone from the inaugural team becoming an icon (and it could have as much to do with longevity as it does with how great they are). Eventually, that player will be surpassed by someone else who is probably a great player, but for the immediate purposes, I see this as reasonably likely.
Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 30, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
That's true.
Steve Largent, who is every bit the icon Walter Jones is, was on the team from year 1. Also, while maybe he’s not remembered as fondly as Griffey or Edgar, Alvin Davis, who joined the team 7 years after it was formed, was nicknamed “Mr. Mariner” and was a big Seattle icon back in the day.
So it is possible that someone could step up and play that roll for the Sounders, but I do agree that it’s probably unlikely. Fredy Montero could become that guy, if there was a way to keep him around, but it sounds like that’s just not going to happen. I base that on “the mom test”, if even my mother has heard of him, he’s making a name for himself.
by Mind of no mind on Apr 30, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
If it's the same reason
that my mom has heard of him, that’s nothing to be proud of.
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