Review: Sounders lose to Red Bull 1-Nil
MLS classifies every goal scored into the following categories - Open Play, Cross, Rebound, Own Goal and four types of set-play - the Corner, the Penalty, the Direct Kick and the Indirect. About 22% of all goals came from what could broadly be labeled Set-Plays.
Seattle, last year, was actually a good MLS side in those situations. They scored 7 goals on Set-Plays (all corners) and gave up two (1 Penalty, 1 Indirect Free). Sounders scored on corners at twice the league average; 4.19% v 1.98%. Many thought that Seattle had a Set-Play problem at the end of last season, and they see the coming of Blaise Nkufo as the answer. I saw a team that was much better than its contemporaries, one that followed a non-traditional path to scoring on the corner and while not satisfied, I did not see the lack of "Target" as large issue.
Sigi, in the short term, will be working on Set-Plays after last night.
It's the beauty of the game for the fans that statistically sometimes you can dominate the game and you come out with nothing at the end of the day that's the way soccer is more so than any other sport. For sure I thought we had some good opportunities. Coundoul came up with a couple of big saves, the one on Zakuani and the one that he went up to his left. Ljungberg had a good opportunity with the header. We had a ton of corners, we had a ton of free kicks, we need to be more effective on those things so that's something we've got to make sure we go to the training ground and make sure we become more effective on that. I'm not displeased with our effort, I'm not displeased with our ability to get forward but I am displeased with our ability to finish.
I'm actually not worried about the Set-Play situation. If the Sounders get 10 corners a game they will win a vast majority of those. If they give up four, they are highly unlikely to have the opposing team score. So while yes, that was why the Sounders lost last night. That was not the biggest problem of the evening.
Lack of Discipline on Offense Late
Seattle has a few players who can beat a guy while they have the ball at their feet. If this sounds familiar it is because you read this site. Steve Zakuani is amazing, as is Ljungberg. Alonso, Gonzalez and to a lesser extent even Evans and Montero are capable of the technical and creative work that means they can make a 6 on 6 a 6 on 5. They can reduce the amount of men behind the ball, and usually do it at speed.
But, as the game got on in time Seattle's Defenders, and even Central Mids stopped passing the ball forward in the 1-2 technique which we all love, and instead turned into the direct game by passing the midfield. Yes, Zakuani was up top, as were Ljungberg and Montero with a dash of Levesque/Noonan, but the Sounders are strongest running an Arseanl/Barcelona style ball on ground offense.
Instead they turned into Hull City, punting and praying. The punt and pray has its place, but is usually most effective for a side that is outclassed, lacks midfield talent or with about 10 minutes left in a match when the team is down. The Sounders turned to this strategy early and those 50/50 balls just weren't won with enough regularity.
Montero's Work on the Left
When Zakuani is on the left we have come to expect magic. While it may not always wind up with a goal, or even a shot on goal, we know that he will penetrate and threaten. Last night, after Zakuani left we were subjected to Fredy Montero working the left wing. It wasn't pretty, and that isn't just because of the change of styles of player.
It seemed to me, and those around me (Aaron), that Montero kept folding too far centrally. This meant that the Red Bull defense could cover two men with one, because the distance between Montero and Nyassi just wasn't great enough. Several switches from right to left sailed over Montero's head as the passer had to get the ball to a position where it was not to be contested.
Montero doesn't have these positioning problems when on the right, and until he figures out how to convert his ability to shift his style to the left side in practice I hope I don't see long periods of it in matches again.
Quest for a Right Wing
It is still going. Roger Levesque had a decent game one and missed two clear scoring opportunities. Last night he was less effective. Pat Noonan had his opportunity, and while some are considering it good I saw a clogged right elbow with Ljungberg, Noonan and Riley too tight. The plays just broke down as the lack of space meant that passing lanes were shut down.
Hopefully that is just chemistry, as Noonan is new to the club. He also knows that he had an issue with it.
It's a learning experience. Before the game, I was kind of asking around, seeing that there was going to be some movements and adjustments. Freddie [Ljungberg] likes to hop out wide so just trying to get into that rhythm of finding holes and getting out of the way when Freddie comes out wide or whatever it might be. You try to go out there and try to be creative and I was trying to get some crosses in, maybe get some chances, and get some shots on goal or something
But there is tight competition there now. A battle between an MLS veteran, a former USL veteran, a young international, a 2009 4th round pick and a 2010 1st round pick. All have different strengths, all bring different skills. All have certain weaknesses. All will likely start in the Reserve Game on Monday.
Stats
Goals by Period 1 2 Tot New York Red Bulls 1 0 1 Seattle Sounders 0 0 0 Scoring Summary: New York Red Bulls -- Bouna Coundoul, Jeremy Hall, Mike Petke, Tim Ream, Roy Miller, Dane Richards, Seth Stammler, Joel Lindpere, Sinisa Ubiparipovic (Danleigh Borman 79), Macoumba Kandji (Conor Chinn 89), Juan Pablo Angel. Misconduct Summary: SEA -- Freddie Ljungberg (caution; Reckless Foul) 10 NY -- Mike Petke (caution; Reckless Foul) 35 NY -- Macoumba Kandji (caution; Reckless Foul) 62 SEA -- James Riley (caution; Unsporting Behavior) 63 Referee: Referee's Assistants: 4th Official: Attendance: Time of Game: Weather:
Substitutes Not Used: Andrew Boyens, Austin Da Luz, Tony Tchani, Juan Agudelo, Greg Sutton.
TOTAL SHOTS: 10 (Juan Pablo Angel 3); SHOTS ON GOAL: 4 (Macoumba Kandji 2); FOULS: 22 (Macoumba Kandji 6); OFFSIDES: 3 (Macoumba Kandji 2); CORNER KICKS: 4 (Sinisa Ubiparipovic 2, Joel Lindpere 2); SAVES: 5 (Bouna Coundoul 5)
Seattle Sounders -- Kasey Keller, James Riley, Jhon Kennedy Hurtado, Tyrone Marshall, Leo Gonzalez (David Estrada 83), Roger Levesque (Pat Noonan 56), Brad Evans, Osvaldo Alonso, Steve Zakuani (Sanna Nyassi 76), Freddie Ljungberg, Fredy Montero.
Substitutes Not Used: Patrick Ianni, Nathan Sturgis, Zach Scott, Terry Boss.
TOTAL SHOTS: 17 (Fredy Montero 5); SHOTS ON GOAL: 5 (Steve Zakuani 3); FOULS: 9 (Sanna Nyassi 2); OFFSIDES: 1 (Freddie Ljungberg 1); CORNER KICKS: 12 (Freddie Ljungberg 11); SAVES: 3 (Kasey Keller 3)
Notes
Nearly 40 people showed up for the prematch gathering as we watched Butler beat Michigan State, talked about the upcoming match and shared beverages. Thanks to all that came.
I will be doing a Klieg Light on Steve Zakuani
Seattle is tied for 7th on a single table by Points Per Match. Real Salt Lake and New England are the other clubs with 3 points in 2 played. RSL has a +2 GD.
There were far too many announcements, commercials and other audio/video interruptions during the run of play last night. Those events need to be tighter in time, lower in volume and have their timing of airing controlled by someone who actually knows the game.
Once a Metro's match review "Defense and Kandji's Timely Goal Have RBNY off to a Dream Start"
What are your thoughts on the match? Did you see the new formations graphic that debuted in the gamethread last night?
Lastly, what tier would place the Sounders in at this point?
Tier One "Teams Contending for a Cup"
Tier Two "Teams Likely in the Playoffs"
Tier Three "Teams on the Outside Looking In"
Tier Four "Teams that suck"
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Comments
Fix the Midfield
I think the continue success on the pitch for Seattle relays on getting the midfield fixed. Even if that means moving players around.
Noonan/roger – montero
Steve – Alonso – evans – Ljungberg could get better results then what we saw yesterday.
Punt and pray was frustrating,
but we were having issues on the ground, too. Lots of errant passes, lots of aborted attacks thanks to a pass to no one, a pass to RBNJ, a bad touch out of bounds. I noticed it from Riley a lot. Maybe he was rusty.
We got away from Sigi’s Game, in a game where the opponent was playing into our hands, keeping the game open, looking to score rather than defend (even after they went up by one).
Disappointing.
“Good teams win at home, and tie on the road.”
I hate that saying.
Disappointing is the right word.
I felt, for the most part, that our guys played the better game, especially in the second half. The first 45’ were frustrating as many of our shots on goal seemed to be taken in desperation from maybe 20 m out.
I am one who felt Noonan brought something to the table. After he came in we got much better penetration and closer shots on goal. Once he has some time to play with the team I think he will acclimate nicely.
In contrast, Leveque was disappointing to say the least.
I saw it mentioned in last night’s thread, but why was Zakuani brought out so early in favor of Nyassi? Zak was having a good game, and it seemed like he had more to give.
Our problem
Our problem continues to be scoring against teams that bunker up. If we don’t score first, then we really struggle to punch through the 11 man fortress. Last night was just the latest example of the other team scoring that first goal and then daring us to come take one from them. Yeah, they kept coming forward for a bit, but after half time, they pretty much parked the bus in front of the goal.
I understand the critique of route 1 ball, but I’m not sure what the alternative to it was when they jammed 11 guys into the spaces between midfield and their own box. While we are good at exploiting space, we lack the strength to create chances when the defense isn’t giving you any space.
I’m starting to believe that either Evans or Alonso has to be moved from central midfield. We need some size there to be able to push people around a bit. The midfield of Zak, Alonso, Levesque and Evans is just to small to play in a game with big guys in tight spaces. Noonan helps a little, but when Freddie drops back to mid field to make room for Blaise, we will be back to the mimi me midfield.
I agree with the Times
Alonso was the MVP last night. He was everywhere. But he needs a running mate that can provide size in the midfield.
I agree
but I don’t think RBNJ started to bunker until about the 70th minute. They scored in the 21st. There was a lot of open play in between.
I'd have to disagree
We basically camped around their penalty are for huge stretches of the game, while they occasionally made a counterattack. I never saw the Red Bulls sustain attacking pressure on us.
Oh, I wouldn't say it was sustained, either.
Both teams had a good time punting the ball back and forth.
I wouldn't say they FULLY bunkered
but they didn’t really attack after half time besides the occasional counter. Most of those were barely anything. Our defense did good shutting most of the good chance from those counters down. Just one unlucky goal from them.
Thanks for the stats.
Wouldn’t have thought the Sounders FC to be twice as twice as productive as the MLS in set plays.
I liked what Seattle did with their corners last night, even though they weren’t successful. They mixed crosses to the far and front posts, and even played one short to Evans for the better angle. I don’t remember them doing that last year. However, with the lack of a target forward, the corners needed to find their way towards Marshal’s head. I only rembember him getting one crack last night, and instead of heading toward goal he tried to nod it down to an attackers feet and failed miserably.
Noonan was far better than Levesque, who’s shitty give-aways and slow footed defense should see him out of the 18 for a while. Noonan nyassi and dare I say Fucito bring more to the attack.
Even in tight quarters Noonan made some nice passes and turned a defender or two. The spacing will come in time. Shit he kept great spacing one play, Montaro just got selfish and didn’t play him in for a one on one with the keeper.
Even in a loss I liked what I saw out of the Sounders FC.
He didn't go.
How was Riley's yellow classified as Unsporting Behavior?
So weird. He didn’t grab a handful of jersey nor did he hit Angel in the face. Nothing seemed ‘unsporting’ about it. He just made contact. Maybe I’m reading too much into it. But it was no less unsporting than Kandji punching at Leo.
He didn't go.
Or how was Nyassi can getting pulled down by having his hand grabbed not a card?
I had the misfortune of timing when I used the restroom and got to hear Arlo’s radio call. He made statements about uncalled handballs at least 3 times.
I HATE talking about referees though
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Arlo's call's are great
But he is definitly home-ing it up a bit.
I still have to rewatch it
I felt there were handballs in the box that prevented goals, but let’s see what its like when I’m not in the moment.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
There was one that really looked like a handball on intial viewing.
If it’s the one you’re thinking of, it looked worse the first time then it did on the replay. On the replay you could see that he had his hand in against his stomach. Yes it hit his hand, but 99/100 the ref won’t call handball on that.
It definitely wasn't.
You can’t call a handball on that. It was the right call.
I remember that one
and remember thinking that if we had been the defending team and a penalty had been given I would have been pissed. Good no call.
34th minute?
That’s the only one during the rewatch today that I thought was questionable. Mainly because the defender used his arm to change the path of the ball, though it could have been that he was trying to get out of the way.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I have no memory of specific minutes
and their respective handballs.
The one I’m thinking of he had his arm/hand tight to his stomach, and that’s where it hit. If his arm wasn’t there, it just would’ve hit his stomach the same way.
The Riley Yellow
Was a perfect example of what everyone is complaining about Ljungberg and Montero doing. A BLATANT DIVE. Seriously cry foul on the Sounders but ignore everyone else. I love how people do that….
Initial reaction: meh.
Twenty-eight games left and all we have to do is be in the top eight. It’s hard to get too worked up about games this early, either way.
As for this last game, a fluky goal against the run of play and another session of trying to bust the bunker. I do think that a true target man like Nkufo could help, especially on corners. I know we’re pretty good by MLS standards on corners, but that’s because MLS is generally crap on corners. Our biggest problem with corners isn’t our size or anything like that, it’s placement and positioning. I can’t recall us ever scoring a direct corner, as in ball comes in and the player puts it directly into the goal. It’s possible that we may have, but it hasn’t been a lot.
As for what tier we’re in, I’d say Tier Two, at a minimum. I don’t see us missing the playoffs, and then you just need a run of four decent games and some luck to pick up an MLS Cup.
We had a few directly off the corner last year.
Marshall in Chicago comes to mind, but I know there was one or two more.
Have you come to terms with the MLS Cup and our wacky American ways, Carlos? It seems like it. Maybe.
It is what it is
I think of it as a bizarre tournament with a ridiculously long group stage. The Champions’ League has six games and we have thirty. Like the Champions’ League, it doesn’t really matter where you end up, as long as you get to the knockout rounds.
I find them of equal importance
and it is key to get in the top 6 US clubs so we don’t have to go into the qualifying rounds of the US Open Cup.
Finishing 8th and going to the East would suck too.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Crossing over has been a ticket to the finals the past two years
Red Bulls the year before and RSL last year. It might very well be the best thing we could go. In fact, if we can work it so that we don’t risk dropping out of the playoff spots altogether, sandbagging it so we cross over might make sense.
It makes sense if you think about it a bit. The division that is sending the crossover is usually much stronger than the one receiving it. That means if you’re the crossover team, you probably have an easier time through the playoffs than in your own division.
Two years is not a trend
Also, in those years the unbalanced schedule meant that the top of a conference got to dine on its weak sisters more than the other top of conference. That won’t be true for this year, and this year only.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
It does show that crossing over is not the end of the world
Get into the playoffs and you could win the MLS with four draws. Getting there is much, much more important than exactly where you end up.
Gah, I left out Cup after MLS
I personally hate the phrase “The MLS” because it sounds weird when you expand it: “The Major League Soccer”.
It would be fun
to have at least one Eastern Conference Champion trophy in our case, though. Just because.
by Cornchops on Apr 4, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You might be
But it doesn’t mean you’re wrong. Unfortunately, RSL is the one that gets to carry around the “defending champs” label this year, not the Crew, so the setup is definitely that the MLS Cup is the Championship, not the Supporters’ Shield.
Anyway, that takes a lot of pressure off of the regular season. Just stay in the top half and anything could happen.
I think it's a thing in American sports
to put more weight in the person who wins in the playoffs over the one that has the best record. Really they should be like I said relatively equivalent. Partially because the lower seeded team might be the one team who’s style plays the best against the teams they play in the playoffs. So that could slightly skew things
Playoffs are a randomizer
According to the Soccernomics guys, without playoffs the NFL would look as unequal as the EPL. Dave and I have talked about their methodology, which might be a little suspect, but I’m looking to do my own analysis soon to see if I can replicate their results using a different method.
Billy Beane has also said that he sees the playoffs as a crapshoot.
I haven't read Soccernomics, so I am not sure if I can make an intelligent comment regarding that point
But, I am going to try to do it anyway. It is so much more complicated than the point Soccernomics makes regarding the NFL. The NFL has a hard cap, billions of dollars in revenue sharing and players are not sold in the NFL to make money like is done in soccer.
It is something like 90% of the teams in the last decade or so that lose in the Superbowl do not even make the playoffs the next year. The NFL has a model that actually preaches mediocrity.
That's consistent with the playoffs being a crapshoot
If what’s basically a midtable team makes it into the Superbowl and loses, it’s not so surprising when they don’t make the playoffs next year, being a midtable team.
Except that some of those SuperBowl losers
were top 4 teams
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
It is a bad premise. A midtable team does not often make it to the Superbowl.
A very good team makes it to the Superbowl and with all the added games they tend to wear out during the next year.
That and they tend to lose some of the players that helped get them there.
But they don’t replace them adequately.
Now with more lemon bars!
Well, that's why I'm looking to do the analysis
I’m wanting to compare finishing position over many years in both the EPL and NFL (regular season only) and see what kind of variation is actually there.
But because of division, mediocre teams do get into the playoffs
If you’re the crappy team at the top of a crappy division, you’ll get into the playoffs, maybe ahead of a team with a better record. But like I said, I have to do the analysis to see if what the Soccernomics guys said makes sense.
Yes, mediocre teams do make the playoffs. But, they do not tend to win championships
Mediocre teams in the NFL tend to lose early in the playoffs. Last years Superbowl was played by the two best teams in New Orleans and Indianapolis. Two years ago, Pittsburgh was very very good and they won the Superbowl.
To back up a bit
The Soccernomics guys did an analysis and said that, just like in the EPL, in the NFL there were a small subset of teams that consistently won a majority of the points from year to year, and that the playoffs were the main mechanism that the NFL used to add in a greater appearance of parity.
What I want to do is to see what would happen if the NFL crowned its champion at the end of the regular season. Would we see as much parity as we do now. I suspect now, but how much less is the question.
To back up even further, as I said I had not read Soccernomics
The model of how the NFL is set up is to have mediocrity. It is currently a league more than any other in the US that actually has real “revenue sharing.” (BTW, some owners such as Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys want to change this). They also have a hard cap that makes it hard for good teams to hold onto all their best players.
Great players sign with lesser teams all the time in the NFL for the payday. Every team in the NFL makes money. A team in a small city like Green Bay can compete at a high level.
I think there are more similarities to the top football leagues in Europe and major league baseball. In baseball there are feeder teams that lose players to the top teams all the time. In Soccer, there are teams that lose players to the top teams all the time.
The big difference
Is that no matter what past standings tell us, the reality is that NFL teams do not treat winning the regular season the same way they treat winning the Super Bowl. Just look at the Colts essentially writing off a perfect record to stay healthy for the playoffs. Those kind of strategic moves kinda makes any comparison flawed, imo.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
There's strategy in European soccer as well
If the race at the top isn’t tight, a team might be willing to drop some points in the league to rest players for European cup competitions or vice versa, if for example qualification out of the group stage is already sewn up.
My main point
Is that it’s hard to compare leagues that treat their regular seasons differently. In the NFL, there are no illusions about what having the best record means. It’s just not as important as staying healthy. Europeans, whether they ultimately end up resting guys or not, start the season with the goal of winning the regular season. Maybe the Colts were a bad example, since they already had home-field advantage wrapped up, but it’s not unheard of for team’s to choose resting players over playoff positioning if it means the difference between a 3 and 4 seed or a 5 or 6, for instance. Just the fact that most NFL fans couldn’t name the team with the best regular-season record most years, but always know the SB champ speaks to the difference.
I’m not saying the comparison is totally irrelevant, I just don’t know that it lends itself to direct comparison. I’ll be very curious to see the results of what you find either way.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
More to my point
Since the NFC and AFC each have a regular season “champ” it makes it even harder to compare the regular season winner, since those teams don’t even bother worrying about the other’s record since there’s no tactical advantage to having the better one.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions
All very true
At the same time, a team has to be in one of the playoff spots before they can take their foot off the gas, so they’ll still be in one of the top finishing spots. That’s a problem with the Soccernomics methodology that I hadn’t even thought of. They were looking at the portion of points won, and teams in the NFL might be more willing to let points drop than a team in Europe would be.
The iffy nature of the “points won” calculation is one of the reasons I wanted to take a look at the issue through another method. Teams might be willing to give up a game or so here and there or even let their finishing position slide a bit, but if there’s a trend of certain teams finishing in the top spots consistently, then that should average out. If one year a team is willing to slide to fourth because of resting players, then they’re probably the beneficiary of that kind of calculation by another team another year.
If, of course, the Soccernomics hypothesis is true
And there is a set of teams passing the top positions around among themselves.
I haven't read Soccernomics
So, I’m working at a bit of a handicap, admittedly. Totally anecdotally, I have to believe that taken as a whole, regular-season records in the NFL are much more proportionally spread out since 1994, when free agency really began, than in almost any other league.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Did a very quick, very dirty look at NFL standings since 2002 (expansion)
Basically, you have four teams that averaged more than 10 wins per season (Colts, Patriots, Steelers and Eagles) and 16 that averaged at least eight (.500).
Of those first four, they had the best record in the NFL in six of those eight seasons. The other two were by the the Chargers and Giants, who averaged 9.875 and 8.625 wins, respectively.
Of the 16 teams that averaged fewer than eight wins, they won 13 division titles (out of a possible 64) and won at least 10 games 22 times.
Only the Colts have won at least 10 games in every season during that span and only the Lions and Bills have failed to do it at least once. (Oddly, though, while the Lions are last in average wins with 3.875, the Bills are much farther up the standings at 24th with 6.875 wins.)
The only teams to fail to win at least one division title in that time are the Bills, Lions, Redskins and Texans (who have only existed for those six seasons).
What’s it all mean? I have no idea. But it certainly looks like you can see this in different ways. You can either see an even tighter concentration of power than in the EPL or a much more generally spread out level of success.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Think about how it would look if there were no playoffs
It sounds like it would be a race between those four teams and a couple outsiders. Sounds a lot like the EPL to me.
I guess the question becomes
How deep the parity, or lack there of, runs in EPL. The top of the NFL standings definitely has a EPL look to it, I imagine the difference comes out in the overall competitiveness of the league from top to bottom over a multi-year period. I don’t have the answers, just posing what seems to be another level of comparison.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I thought about this a little last night and I even think there is a bigger difference than I even thought
In the EPL, a team will play every other team twice, both home and away. Therefore, no team has an advantage of playing say Portsmouth an extra time.
In the NFL, teams play an unbalanced schedule. Teams play every team in their division twice and then play one game against a different division’s teams. Teams that play in weaker divisions tend to have great records.
San Diego has had great records, but they also have been in a division with three weak teams during that period.
Also, before this last season (or maybe it is the last two seasons), Seattle would have been in the top four teams, but during that period they played in a division with three weak teams.
It is not the randomness of playoffs, it is all about the schedule that can create superteams.
Only problem with that
Is that the four teams at the top of our eight-year table are playing in what could be deemed as the toughest divisions in football. The Colts’ AFC South is probably the weakest, top to bottom, of the bunch and even they had the Titans, who averaged almost nine wins per season during that eight-year stretch.
Here’s the collective average wins of those divisions:
AFC South: 8.78 wins
NFC East: 8.625
AFC East: 8.40
AFC North: 8
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 5, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Does it really?
It explains the Colts, but the rest of the division have mostly been also rans. The Colts being extremely dominant along with average teams can skew the results.
Do you notice that three of the divisions are from the AFC? The Colts had the leagues best record, yet they played the NFC west, perhaps the leagues weakest division. New Orleans played the AFC east, one of the better divisions.
New Orleans destroyed the Colts in the Superbowl and were the better team. Going just by the records (or top of the table), the Colts should have won. But, their schedule wasn’t the same.
Looking at the last 8 years of MLS, there are almost always Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal in the top four teams. There is a year here and there where ONE of those teams falls a spot or two.
In the NFL, it looks like this (in order of finish):
2009 – 1. Colts, 2. Saints, 2. Chargers, 4. Minn
2008 – 1. Oilers, 2. Giants, 2. Steelers, 2. Panthers, 2. Colts
2007 – 1. Patriots 2. Cowboys, 2. Colts, 2. Packers
2006 – 1. Chargers, 2. Bears, 2. Ravens, 4. Colts, 4. Patriots
2005 – 1. Colts, 2. Seahawks, 2. Broncos, 4. Jaguars
I could go on for all eight years, but the results are the same. Since 2002 to 2009, there have been a total of 20 different teams that have finished within (or tied with) the top four record in the NFL. In the EPL (not counting this year, as the season is not complete) there have been six teams that finished with a top 4 record (the big four plus Newcastle twice and Everton once).
In addition, the Eagles have one four best winning records during that time, yet the last time they finished with a top 4 league records was back in 2004.
I love the EPL and I love the NFL and they both have their strongpoints, but they are nothing like each other.
I cannot believe I wrote MLS when I meant EPL above
SO SORRY
30 lashes for me
Equal makes sense
Because they both get slots in the group stage of the champions league.
He didn't go.
Except that the MLS Cup is more equal
Because if you win that, you’re that year’s champion.
I wish I could take credit
But it’s Orwell’s line.
This season is a little different.
As everyone this season is playing a balanced schedule. Maybe Im a little euro-centric when it comes to football. All I know is the Arsenal would much rather win the Barclay’s than the Carling Cup. Maybe that’s not a fair comparison but I see the MLS cup as just a glorified league cup, with luck playing a big roll.
He didn't go.
I'm glad someone else thought that goal was fluky
I realize the defense wasn’t great, but watching the replays the ball came off his foot really funny (almost like a double-hit in tennis) and aside from not letting the offense even touch the ball that close to the goal, there’s not much else that could be done.
Because if it's not Love
Then it's the bomb ...
That will bring us together
by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 4, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions
And don't forget that the ball hit the crossbar as well
I am disappointed in the loss, but I really thought that Seattle was the better side. This team was not going to win all 30 games, so even if they won this game, there would be another game later in the season that they lost as the Sounders regressed to what their win total should be.
Tier 1.5
I watched every game this weekend, and have to say that the Sounders are one of the top teams in the league, regardless of last night’s result. Maybe I’m biased because I’m a huge fan of their style of play: long, effective crossing balls mixed in with fast sideline runs and power and muscle in the midfield.
The Sounders should be fine if they find that finishing touch, that hunger to put the ball in the back of the net. And they will. At least we know NYRB all for real now.
Co-Captain of Green Street Elite
by deepsouthsoccer on Apr 4, 2010 10:40 AM PDT reply actions
I already sent in my rankings
Some major shifts based on this weekend.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I definitely think Red Bulls are one of the best teams this year. I would agree that watching the other games the last couple weeks most of them look mediocre to bad. Sounders just need to find the net and they’ll be fine this year. It’s unfortunate the Red Bulls got that nice (relatively flukey) goal, because they didn’t produce anything else really.
I think
I think we are crossing the line between unlucky and something is wrong with our finishing.
We've known that for a while
What to do about it is a more difficult proposition. I think a big part of it is that individuals are generally trying to do too much. They need to be a little bit more focused and precise and that makes every part of the game easier.
Well it doesn’t help where we lack a couple key ingredients a true TF, Set piece specialist on both free kicks and corner kicks.
Teams win without those players all the time
The issues are deeper than just what types of players are on the team. It is more about an ability to maximize the talent already there.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
It seems Seattle had an issue doing that yesterday then. But if Seattle is going to be fouled so much or get so many corner kicks it would be nice if Seattle had an specialist to take those.
While I agree to a point
You cannot argue that Seattle was one of, if not the best at scoring off of set pieces. We all would love to have a specialist, but then we get to the same thinking that fantasy league players do. We want this player that can do this and that player that can do that. But, with a salary cap and with players being under contract to other teams and other leagues, it just is not easy.
Oh I’m not disagreeing that Seattle is the best off of set pieces but those were only on corner kicks not free kicks. And in that case of scoring on corner kicks the players were in the right spot at the right time. Trouble is Freddie can’t see to pinpoint the ball to where Seattle can easily put it in the back of the net or try to put it on frame.
He was the Corner Take most of Last Year
I doubt he lost that skill during the offseason.
If you look at the corners last night, they really mixed it up quite a bit, which has been mentioned. If Coundol had merely been average last night there probably would have been a goal, and the point would be moot.
I am certain that if Seattle takes 300 corners on the season they will get at least one trophy.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Sigi said something in the post-match interview
That when the service was good the runs seemed to be off. And with the runs were good the service was off…
Nkufo is supposed to be the former
I’d really like to see the new DP slot to address the latter. My fantasy would be Juninho, because he’s one of the best deadball specialists of all time, but we’ll see what we can do.
Thanks for the post Dave, you are a voice of reason
I thought the Sounders were the better side yesterday. Over on GS, the consensus appears to be the world is falling. Yes, Seattle has trouble finishing, but we knew that. They had the same problem last year and still won the US Open Cup and were two points away from the Supporters Shield.
Does this team need to improve, yes. Will it? Yes. It was one game. Heck, RSL has already lost a game and they are the defending champs.
The sky is always falling
at GS. And Jaqua has no talent whatsoever, Fredy should be benched, etc. Thank god for a reality-based Sounders community.
My opinion actually improved of the Sounders after this game.
We have the same weaknesses we’ve always had (I always felt our passing was suspect last year) and we had some simple bad luck. It happens sometimes. But this last game’s play by Zakuani has me excited. He has clearly improved by leaps and bounds over last year. And Noonan looked to have some chemistry with Ljunberg, giving him a few chances at scoring late in the game.
Now with more lemon bars!
Agreed with you on Zakuani
I thought Noonan was an improvement over Roger last night, as Roger had a horrible night.
It didn't take much to improve over Roger.
And there were definitely some clumping issues on the right side. I thought Riley looked terrible the whole game, I assume it’s rust. But Noonan made a few nice moves, a couple nice passes inside to Ljunberg, and generally seemed to play well with what he was given. I’d like to see another game from him, see how he does in an expanded roll.
Now with more lemon bars!
While Noonan was an improvement
Is he the answer at Right Wing?
Maybe after the Reserve Game we’ll take a look at the depth chart with particular focus on the right side.
I am not a Supporter
I am not a Fan
I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Maybe, maybe not.
But he definitely deserves an expanded look in an upcoming game. He was only on for about 25 minutes, maybe he just got lucky. I want to see if he can sustain his play over 50-60 minutes.
Now with more lemon bars!
I don't think you could make a scouting report based on a week of practice and from watching 20 minutes last night
He did make an outstanding cross right on head to Freddie that a good finisher would have put away. Last year in the beginning, Freddie played out wide and Nate played inside. I wonder if Freddie can go back out wide and move Noonan to forward, if that might work.
I love Roger
But I hope we don’t have to see him start again. He makes a great 89’ sub, but gives the ball away far too easily.
Roger doesn't equal goals anymore?
He is at his best as a super-sub.
I did not follow the USL Sounders
But this is what I think of Roger from seeing him the last two years. I know he was a successful player in USL and I think his talent level was above average for that level. In MLS, his talent level is below average and he gets exposed when he starts.
He is not technically sound, nor physically gifted, but he is a very intelligent player that is usually in the right position and he has a great motor.
However, when he starts, his limitations get exposed. Perhaps his greatest asset, his hustle, gets nullified in a game he starts because the player marking him has fresh legs. However, when he enters a game in the second half when the player marking him has tired legs, he is able to do some good things.
Sadly not, it appears
At least not when he starts. He hasn’t been sharp so far. That was okay in the first game, but we really could have used more out of him last night. We’ll see, maybe he find his way if he gets another start and if not, that’s Noonan’s opportunity to justify his roster spot.
some stats I'd be curious in
If available, how often the Galaxy are fouled in the attcking third with and without Beckham in their lineup.
Beckham
In the games I saw last year, Beckham rarely ventured into the attacking third. He’d hang around mid field and try to drop balls onto long runs, but not much else.
It's not Beckham being fouled that I'm interested in
It’s the other team’s fear of what he might do as a result of them fouling one of Beckham’s teammates.
The point was made in this post that there isn’t a real need to improve on set plays. Folks like Ljungberg can “bulk up” but I doubt that is really going to scare our opponents off from fouling us. Now if we started doing something on free kicks in the attacking third, then maybe they’d start thinking twice about it…
We start improving on set plays and it’s going to start opening stuff up for us during the run of play, as well.
Visiting RBNY Fan
I was in Seattle for the game on Saturday – probably the only Red Bulls fan in attendance (I don’t think many wanted to return after last season). In any case, I had a great time chatting with Sounders fans and loved every minute of it.
My report (with pre-match video) is here: http://www.thevipersnest.com/2010/04/vipers-nest-invades-seattle.html
by Matthew Conroy on Apr 5, 2010 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

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