Grass vs Plastic
It's considered good form around the league and among many fans at home to criticize the Qwest turf, as if soccer/football played on FieldTurf is somehow tarnished. Currently Seattle and New England are the only teams to play on artificial turf, though if the Whitecaps play at BC Place, which seems to be the plan, they'll be the third team in the league on plastic.
Opposition isn't limited to fans, of course. More importantly, players seem to be generally opposed (though they will be much more circumspect in their opposition, as they naturally won't want to criticize their own employers or potential employers in public). And such coaching luminaries as Bob Bradley ("FIFA should not allow artificial surfaces") and Martin O'Neill (FIFA officials should "have their heads examined") have come out strongly against plastic turf.
Opposition to turf is generally based either on aesthetics and nostalgia or on more practical injury concerns. Injury concerns are, of course, quite serious to both players and fans alike. And those who complain on the basis of tradition or aesthetics will tend to reinforce the argument with injury concerns, as it's much harder to argue against. The hard research on turf has a mixed record. FieldTurf seems to lead to different kinds of injuries (more ligaments, fewer concussions), but it's not clear whether it leads to more overall.
Of course, this is a matter where the truth may be less important than perception. If players are worried about playing on turf, the facts are irrelevant. Free agent signings will be made more difficult. Resigning players will be more difficult. Players may choose to retire earlier.
On the plus side, turf has three traditional advantages. It's evidently cheaper to maintain, and that means extra money available for signing better players, chartering flights, or giving season ticket holders refunds after bad performances. Secondly, FieldTurf can handle much colder weather than grass, so games are more rarely called off in cold climates (like Russia, where plastic pitches are extensively used), though Seattle almost never freezes over during the summer MLS season. And thirdly, the plastic turf is more resistant to twenty thousand U2 fans wandering around with their bongs messing the place up.
But there might be a fourth advantage. I was struck while watching Tottenham play Young Boys in the Champions League today just how much the announcers were using the Boys' LigaTurf pitch as an excuse for the Spurs' terrible play. It's entirely possible that they simply didn't want to admit (as English announcers) that the Spurs just played horrible defense through much of the game and hit on the turf as an excuse. But it's also possible that they're right, and that teams that play primarily on grass are at a large disadvantage when they move to turf for occasional games. If true, this represents something of a home field advantage for turf teams. After all, if the difficulty of playing on turf can reduce a top Premier League club to the level of a Swiss club side, what could it do for the Sounders against other MLS competition?
Then again, the home field advantage for the Sounders (or New England, for that matter) hasn't been tremendous. Los Angeles certainly didn't seem to have any trouble adjusting to the plastic pitch. In the end, I suspect the British announcers were simply looking for any reason to diminish Tottenham's own role in their poor play.
So that leaves the only advantages of FieldTurf the lack of summertime freezing, the maintenance cost, and the revenue from concerts. So how much is it worth?
FanPosts only represent the opinions of the poster, not of Sounder at Heart.
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Portland too
According to this, the Timbers will be on FieldTurf, too.
As for your fourth advantage, I feel that no matter how bad the surface, the worst thing a surface can do to a team is to get in its head. The more time a player is thinking about how bad the surface is, the less time they are thinking about how to win the game. It’s probably a bigger adjustment for a team coming from an all-grass league to play (more or less) a one-off on turf than it is for an MLS team to play a couple of games a year on turf. There are probably a few teams in the league that even have some turf in their practice facilities.
Here in the Pacific NW, it seems like we have two choices: a) consistent FieldTurf surface or b) grass that is pretty dry in the summer and a risk to be a mudpatch in the beginning on end of the season. In the past, I’ve noticed that even in Safeco, they have trouble keeping up the grass around where Ichiro stands in RF. And I would presume that it’s easier to maintain baseball grass (which doesn’t get wet during a game) as compared to soccer grass.
I love it
TA rags on Seattle mercilously for playing on plastic. If they play on it too, I will laugh.
by chrisperry1983 on Aug 18, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Option 3 shouldn't even be an option
Try getting the Seahawks to convert to grass and see what happens. The field would be absolutely unplayable.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 17, 2010 8:55 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
spending $1M would need to be justified. how would the FO recoup this cost? it certainly isn’t going to be through ticket sales
possibly, the long term hope woudl be to attract a more talented squad…
Sounders turned a profit in 10s of Millions last year
they have money
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Still
Reducing profit through extra expenses when not necessary hardly seems like good business sense.
by chrisperry1983 on Aug 18, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
The Sounders do not have an advantage playing on this surface because most of their players came
from grass surface backgrounds. The advantage comes through extensive experience on the surface which I am not sure we have just yet.
Dave has said multiple times that the FieldTurf surface has not shown itself to cause more injuries than grass. I can accept that for the most part as I have played on every surface known to man and FieldTurf is second only to grass in my opinion as far as playing surfaces go.
The biggest reason I have for not liking it though is that it plays way too fast. This is even worse when the field is wet. When athletes are trained to just let their muscles react such a difference can cause problems. A pass that may well be perfect on grass becomes an ugly overpowered pass on FieldTurf. A player expecting a ball to go to one spot looks like he was lazy because the ball shoots past him.
This may seem minor to some, but it is the biggest reason players and managers at the highest level will complain about the surface.
The players have requested the wetting of the field
They like it better.
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they did it on 8pm starts
The players feel safer on a slightly damp field, and they like the way the ball plays better as well.
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Media excuses for poor play
Tottenham plays on Desso GrassMaster, which is a partial (admittedly only 3%) artificial surface. Still, if you’re in a glass house…
You will hear us.
No fan of turf
I think the different type of injuries is a valid issue, also according to players at RSL who played at Rice Eccles the severity and recovery was harder on the turf. I don’t believe one causes more injuries than the other, but there must be a reason why TFC chose to spend the money to go with grass, and not a single SSS in the US is turf?
I do think the bigger issue is the impact on play, and you can simply ask anyone who came to Rice Eccles to play a match if there was a difference playing on turf from grass. Even the best turf out there will be subject to the ball playing differently than it will on grass, of course the ball also plays differently on various lengths of grass, so of course it is fairly subjective.
I was a bit confused by your option 3, as concerts and other events have long taken place in stadiums with grass fields, why would installing grass at Qwest prevent concerts or other events?
The real issue is the smell of freshly cut grass on game day, there is nothing like it.
TFC has a bunch of puritanicals
And Rice Eccles did not have the generation of FieldTurf that Qwest does.
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FieldTurf may play differently
but it does play consistently. A ball played in the corner will interact with the surface more or less the same as a ball played at mid-pitch. Even a well-maintained grass field will have irregularities: low spots, divots created during play, worn grass in the mid-field and in the box. Anyway, the Seahawk and Sounder front offices are committed to it, so it’s not going anywhere.
You will hear us.
Grass at Qwest
I just can’t imagine Qwest ever permanently moving to grass at this point. Most of the people that make decisions here, I think, are pretty convinced the benefits outweigh any negatives.
The one exception I could foresee is if the World Cup comes here. In that case, I think they’ll bring in temporary grass, but it would only be for the summer of the tournament.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 18, 2010 10:08 AM PDT reply actions
I think that was a requirement from the day they pitched building Qwest
They would convert to grass in the event that FIFA regulations declared it so, or if MLS required it for a team, or for international teams coming to play.
by chrisperry1983 on Aug 18, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Well when the idea was pitched they got the local soccer community on board by telling us it would be grass.
Then after they won the vote they changed their mind. I spent many volunteer hours helping pitch that stadium that I was rather bitter about as we waited a decade for an MLS team to get awarded. Part of why we waited for so long to get a team was the surface.
The larger reason was their wasn't large investor until Roth got involved
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Concerns with Turf
I’ve never been concerned with the turf all that much. I would prefer a perfect grass field of course but good turf is better then bad grass. I’d rather play on Turf then that field we played on for the CCL for instance…
However, i’m a little concerned with how quickly the field looks to be being worn down. I think the turf in Qwest is supposed to only be a few years old and it already looks a little worn out. It may just be the color getting scrubbed out but there are times it just looks ugly and old.
I would like the idea of the removable tray system where a replica field is growing off site and you can replace sections of the field by removing them and bringing in their replacements. Probably pretty damn expensive though. Is it worth it? maybe. I think yes, but then again i’m not the one cutting the checks.
New turf
was installed at Qwest in 2008, so while it might be fading, it should have several years left on its life. As the article touches on, the Seahawks aren’t too likely to tolerate a sub-standard field for long, so if it is getting worn, they’ll address it. I suppose that’s one positive to sharing with an NFL team.
You will hear us.
artificial turf fields...
…are going to become more and more accepted and the traditionalists will never stop crying about it, its just the way it goes. Frankly, grass in tip-top condition will always be the superior playing surface, but keeping it in tip-top condition is actually virtually imposible, and that’s just the way it is as well. I’ve always said, i would rather play on artificial turf than a grass field in poor condition…
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
There is no 'superior playing surface'
Grass fields encourage skill, turf encourages physical ability.
It’s pretty clear that MLS and turf are unique suited.
by Graham MacAree on Aug 20, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Field Turf is the future...
the soccer purists need to accept it. Look at (American) football, they had this same argument 10 years ago. Now, almost every NFL stadium has FieldTurf, almost every college stadium has FieldTurf, high school stadiums all across the country are converting to FieldTurf.
Now that field turf has been around long enough, we will start to see a crop of players who has grown up playing on the artificial stuff, and there won’t be as much complaining from the players.
A crop of players who are worse technically than international players because they grew up on a surface that encourages non-technical play
by Graham MacAree on Aug 21, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Except that many training facilities worldwide are converting to artificial surfaces
It makes me laugh that so many teams practice on artificial, but play on real.
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Club training surfaces might be, but the vast majority of kids are playing on grass
by Graham MacAree on Aug 22, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
That would be an intriguing number
Under 12s what surface do they use
Dirt
Asphalt/Concrete
Grass
Turf
In the PNW it used to be almost every field was dirt, some intended to be grass, but I remember a lot of dirt and gravel.
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As a kid here I mostly played on grass.
Then as I got into junior high the dirt fields started popping up. My first high school played at the old Fort Dent location in the 80’s and that field was crushed red rock. Then my second high school played on Astroturf. I think having played on so many divergent surfaces can be a hindrance to skill development.
If the whole world started playing on Fieldturf I’m not sure it would destroy skill based soccer, but I guarantee you would see peak ages drop by a year or two at some positions.
We should also recall that in many Lesser Developed Countries
grass is not the norm.
Dirt/Gravel/Concrete etc
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