Would it frustrate you if I lumped you in with other bloggers.
Who have little to no analysis of their own and routinely, and half-heartedly plagarize from MSM?

You clearly disagree with the way we choose to support our club. Or maybe you have an issue with drinking, whatever.
For you to disregard the enthusiasm and dedication we put into each game day as simple hedonistic frenzy akin to 21-year olds out for their birthday, is totally uncalled for.

Sorry you got some beer spilled on you once, but don’t judge the entire organization by a few upstarts.

Graham, you don’t know what you’re talking about and you’re coming off like an ignorant jackass…

I totally agree, we have much to learn about dealing with other fans.

However, the roughly 3% that’s designated as a supporters section, ECS (being by far the largest supporters club and the only one that’s in that designated section) does think that our desires on how things are going to go within that section are the desires that should be heeded.

I know, that’s terribly selfish of ECS, to believe that the supporters should decide for themselves how things go within the supporters section, and I can see how people in the other 97% of the stadium might think that means ECS thinks it owns the stadium, but I guess we’re just terrible people that way.

This isn’t rocket science, folks. If you don’t like how things go in the supporters section, where ECS sits, then see if you can’t find a ticket in the remaining 97% of the stadium to sit in. Odds are your friendly Sounders ticket rep will be able to work something out for you.

Then you can be happy watching and cheering and supporting the Sounders, and we can be happy watching and cheering and supporting the Sounders, and everyone’s all happy and shit. Life is good.

ECS has never, ever tried to run the entire stadium, and people who make this claim are engaging in a classic form of a strawman argument.

We do not get to decide who sits where. We WANT people to decide on where they want to sit. And if they sit in the supporters section with us, we expect that means they’re going to go along with what comes with that choice- acting like a supporter. In the supporters section. With the other supporters.

Don’t want to do that? Pick a seat in the rest of the 97% of the stadium, KTHXBYE.

As far as the original bit in this post, the Timbers trying to get all attitude-y and stuff, whatever. Scoreboards say more than billboards and our history shows far more talking with the scoreboard than any marketing campaign those methheads can dream up.

For the record, I was arguing that as a whole, the ECS is not just a useless mass of binge-drinking college students.
I wasn’t saying that some of our members don’t have binge drinking tendencies.

But we’re stuck in what amounts to one seat as a season ticket holder. Yes, it’s a huge stadium, but it’s also a huge, sold-out stadium. There’s no real options to move for others, either.

I like the seats we’re in. I like the angle, the view and I like being near ECS. The flags are fine most of the time. It’s only a limited amount of time where they obstruct views outside of the GA. That limited amount of time also happens to be one of the more important times during the run of play. At the same time, I understand that the time it obstructs the views of others is also the time ECS would most want the flags up (play right in front of the section).

I don’t know that there’s a solution to it all. Move isn’t one (for either side) and take them down isn’t really one, either. Matthew probably has the most realistic middle-ground.

However, this quote seems aimed at me.

complains about supporters encouraging them to participate

… I’d never hate you for that. I’d shrug and say “he didn’t get what he wanted from ECS leadership, he’s got a right to complain to the owners, let’s hope they tell him to pound sand.” :)

(And I’ll freely admit that I’m much grumpier right now than normal, but being in the middle of a divorce will do that. Not an excuse, just a reason. I’m also far less tolerant of people who have alternatives whining about the effects of their own choices. It’ll wear off, give me a few months.)

The question of ECS trying to exert its will upon the people in the designated supporters section (since, after all, ECS’s last name is “Supporters”) is a good case study… for pondering the notion of social norms, mini-societies within greater societies, how social behavior expectations are spread to others; and what things are implied and what are (or should be) specifically spelled out in the business transaction of selling someone a ticket to view a sporting event.

And I can yammer on with the best of them on that stuff, but it’s boring even me, so it’s probably boring the hell out of others. :)

But what it boils down to is this:

The idea that it is more important to wave flags than to actually see the players, you feel that is not a legit complaint?

If… IF the person buying a ticket did so with a reasonable expectation that their view would not be blocked by flags, and their views WERE blocked by flags, then I’d say sure, it’s a legit complaint.

But is that the case here?

IMO, it’s not legit when the person complaining has an extremely easy avenue to avoid the problem entirely, and knew ahead of time that their view might occasionally be blocked.

Anyone who was a season ticket holder or attended a match in 2009 saw those flags up in the ECS section. They knew those flags were going to be up. They could have gotten seats somewhere else. They didn’t. End of story, in my book.

What’s more, the ownership of the SSFC sells those tickets and supports/allows/tolerates the flags being up. In fact, more than that- they expressly created that section for exactly that kind of thing to happen.

We can argue about whether the entire GA is a supporters section, and who was responsible for it, and so forth, but that’d be a waste of our time; the reality is that there’s signs above it saying that it’s a supporters’ section and that the gameday experience there will likely reflect that. The club’s ownership has set it up that way and told the supporters they can do that stuff.

So it’s in how you frame the question. You tell me, is it a legit complaint for someone who knew the flags were up, who could have easily moved to a seat where their view wouldn’t have been blocked, and who willingly enters into a financial transaction with a business that has expressly created a flag-waving zone?

I say “nope”.

Saying it’s not a legitimate complaint does NOT mean I think they don’t have a point. They have a great point- they wanna see the game! I don’t blame ’em one bit for THAT desire.

But dang it, they chose to sit there, the club’s ownership has made it reasonably clear that they permit flags, the ECS has made it quite clear that flags are part of our gameday experience, and that’s just how it’s going to be. Thus, the continued complaints about it aren’t very valid when you consider the overall situation.

Frankly, I personally don’t like the flags during the run of play. I want to see the game and would rather we be more of the kind of group who stands and sings and chants; I like the overhead choreos; I like most of what we do. I don’t like the flags during play.

But I don’t bitch about them now because ECS has had that discussion, internally, and those of us who don’t like the flags lost. I can use a ticket elsewhere in the stadium, or even start my own supporter group, if I really want to. I don’t.

If, after the season when we review things, the flags come up again (and I bet they will) I’ll make my case again, but I’m not going to continually bring it up because I knew how things were going to be.

And that’s all I hope for from fellow fans of the club. You lost, the flags are (for now) a fact of life, you could have moved, deal with it. Dang, there I go being blunt again. :)