Expect Lineup Changes In Quest For Miracle
by Dave Clark on Nov 2, 2011 9:56 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Cup Playoffs
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Our various writers here had a little discussion about what lineup changes we'd want to see. The thought was to make a lineup card for you that would show a Sounder at Heart preferred lineup and a Real Salt Lake likely lineup due to the injuries to Jamison Olave and Nat Borchers. With Jason Kreis not sharing the status of those two besides the decision being held until tonight their side of the card would be incomplete. The lack of consensus within the staff made picking which direction to go difficult on the Seattle Sounders side of the card.
There is a bit of a guide from past games where Seattle has done what it must do at a minimum. In four games they won by three or more goals - against Toronto FC, the Columbus Crew, DC United and Comunicaciones. Starting in all four of those games were only two players - James Riley and Fredy Montero. Two others took the pitch in those four - Alvaro Fernandez and Mike Fucito. A full 18 players made appearances in two or more of those matches. Needless to say, the lineup was only one of many issues on Saturday night and it won't be the solution in Leg Two. At least not on its own. Everyone that takes the pitch must be better.
Staff here agreed on one change. Fucito needs to start, while Sammy Ochoa returns to the bench role where he's done quite well. The addition of speed and greater physicality will help, whether Fucito scores or not. This move also adds a left foot to serve the ball on corners and free kicks, another area where the Sounders had issues. Fucito started 3 of those games and was the first sub in the other. He netted 4 goals and assisted on two others in those blowouts.
Nearly unanimous was a desire to see Tyson Wahl. His on-ball defense may not be as strong as Leo Gonzalez, but the general thought here was that his greater offensive prowess is more needed than the on-ball defense, particularly when RSL is likely to sit back until forced to push forward. But, it would leave the Sounders more vulnerable to the counter. Giving up one goal before Seattle grabs at least two ends any attempt at this miracle. Wahl started 3 of those 4 games.
Opinions start to diverge here. The debate between which two of Lamar Neagle, Brad Evans and Erik Friberg starts to address what we saw as the biggest issues that crushed Seattle on Saturday. Those that through possession and passing were the biggest problems want to see the a return of Evans and Friberg in joint CM/RM roles. This was the formation used in the Toronto game, a game where Evans would net two goals and gather an assist. But it would also miss out on Neagle's ability to have a goal explosion, a feat that the Crew know too well. Evans had 3 starts in those games, Neagle had two starts and a sub appearance and Friberg 2 starts
Mauro Rosales will certainly be missed. He was great in blowouts as are needed this evening. In his two starts and appearance as the first sub he helped the team with a goal and three primary assists. To do without his dribbling, vision and passing ability will need a group effort from Seattle. Alonso will have to return to the player he is over the full season, not one game. The same goes for Fredy Montero and Alvaro Fernandez. Those three had 3 goals (all Flaco) and 4 assists among them. Whenever one of the Latin stars goes down, the pressure is on the remaining ones to be even greater.
If you think the lineup decision is going to fix everything, you're probably wrong. Does just the lineup help get one or two goals on its own? Probably. But the fault was not all on Sigi, so the solution is not all on him either. The stars need to step up. The supporting cast needs to step up. Everything must be perfect in a game just after one where nearly everything was wrong.
If you want a lineup card, here's last week's projection. But tonight isn't about a lineup, or shape, or tactics. It is about everything.
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If things go well...
…it seems like the best we can hope for is a three-goal lead in tonight’s game by the end of regulation. At which point it would go to extra time. To me, it seems likely that Evans starts and plays the whole game, whether at RM or CM, and if Friberg starts, Neagle will probably come in eventually and get a lot of minutes. (Again, assuming things go well, which probably means we’ll see 120 minutes of game time tonight.)
If Fucito gets the start (I agree that this is both likely and seems like the right call), then for him to play as physically and hard as he needs to, I’d guess that Ochoa’s going to get a lot of minutes off the bench.
Basically, I guess my point is that even if, say, Fucito and Friberg start over Ochoa and Neagle, we’re still going to need to get good minutes out of Ochoa and Neagle, and for things to really work out, we’ll need positive contributions from all 14 players who see time tonight.
I've felt better about Friberg than Evans lately
Evans’ touches lately have been poor in the final third, going back to the Philly game. I’d go with Friberg.
No matter what, we need to see balls kicked on frame. Mauro is out, Fucito in is a good move, but leaves us without an obvious cross-to-header target. We need guys in the box driving the ball at Rimando – well, somewhat to the side of Rimando.
I figure if we generate 25 shots, 50% on frame, at least 3 go in. And yes, I think we need that many.
I think I'd still take Evans over Neagle, though
Friberg in the center of the pitch might be the right answer at the moment, but Evans seemed to be working his way into more dangerous positions at the end of the last game than Neagle had all game. I think that Neagle is one of our best players at beating a defender on the dribble, but I feel like he’s often a little disconnected from the offense, and I think that showed on Saturday to some degree.
What about lineup?
I’m expecting to see something radical tonight. Something new that reflects the all-or-nothing tone of tonight’s game… Anyone with more tactical domain expertise than me want to submit options?
Changing what you know works isn't a good idea.
The tactics weren’t the problem the last time out, the performance was. Adopting a new formation this late in the going is close to suicidal.
by Aaron Campeau on Nov 2, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed..
…as the saying goes, dance with the one who brought you.
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Staff writer for Managing Madrid
by Timm Higgins on Nov 2, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Right, and there were four games where they did what they need to do tonight
This is a great team, and has been for so many games this season.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
In these situations...
…the common request from fans always seems to be that the coach should play a formation with more players up front. Even if a team is used to playing with that kind of formation, it seems like this doesn’t really work too often to generate more offense. More often than not, just throwing a bunch of guys forward seems to plug up space, almost doing the defense’s job for them, without leading to additional scoring opportunities.
The big key for me is just that we need to dominate possession. If they have the ball, we need to take it from them. Once we get the ball, we need to eliminate careless turnovers. If there was any lesson to be learned from the Manchester United game (and there really wasn’t much to take from that game), it’s that you don’t want to cheaply give away the ball to a team that can keep the ball from you, and when RSL gets the ball, they are pretty good at holding on. If we can get the possession, then we can get the shots, and we’ll see what fate has in store for us at that point.
Especially since
If RSL get a single goal, and I mean 1 goal at all, it’s over. mark my words. the life will be sucked right out of the stadium and it will be over. If Seattle, on the other hand, can get a goal early, the crowd, the players, everyone will start to believe it’s possible. But ya, defense in the first 30 minutes or so, as far as I’m concerned, is ALMOST more important than offense.
by CapHillSounder on Nov 2, 2011 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually in an odd kind of way I'm almost confident we'll get either 2 or 3 goals in this game
with RSL’s CBs in question. But asking for 3 or 4 goals AND a shutout? Our defense better be playing out of their minds. RSL will come out at 110% gunning for the first goal to try and shut the fans up and suck the hope out of the Sounders.
Fucito will be the most important person on the field
I think he should have started last match because he gives big center backs a lot more problems then big forwards.
I’ll go out on a limb and this is my prediction is if Fucito gets a minimum of 2 points i.e 1 goal or 2 assists, we come back and win.
When the 2nd forward is on and it creates space for Fernandez and Montero is when we put 3 goals up in 30 minutes or 2 goals in 30 minutes, or whatever those ridiculous streaks are that we’ve had. I know Ochoa was more on form lately, but it still seemed risky to have him start the playoff match.
I’ve been critical of Fucito, but think he does hold the key to the victory.
Not sure if I'd say he's the most important...
…but he’ll be a big part of the game. (I think with Beckerman/Morales in RSL’s midfield, we really need our center mids to step up and that’s going to be a huge part of the game. If our midfield can’t win the ball, there’s nothing Fucito can do to impact the game.)
I totally agree that Fucito needs to be dangerous enough to draw attention from the defense away from Flaco and Fredy. Even going back to Nkufo’s brief stint with the team, the reason he helped the offense so much wasn’t that he was a big target guy, it was that defenses had to pay attention to him. It was basically the same when we paired Mauro with Fredy up top at points during this season. Even though neither is a hold-up player and both are pretty small, the defense has to respect both of them as dangerous players and that opens up space for each.
Tonight
At first I thought, I don’t want to go to a game where we are down 3-0.
Then I realized there will be a sense of we can do this after the first goal….
And it is going to be VERY exciting ( and nervous for SLC ) when we score two goals….
After three it will be one of the greatest Sounder’s games I have ever been to ( and I have been a LOT of games )…………and four will cinch that title.
Lets call it a 5% chance of being one of the greatest games ever, 1 in 20 (might be too optimistic, but I am a diehard fan) and better than 50/50 after that of winning.
I AM JAZZED FOR THIS GAME !
1 in 20?
That’s a critical hit
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Nov 2, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I hope Fucito brought his vorpal sword
The SAH Links Guy
by Dizzo on Nov 2, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Critical Hit Table for Sounders tonight
After rolling crtic hit. Roll d20 for result
1-12 Seattle manages 3-0 with the help of an offside goal not called for Fucito, a ricocheted own goal off the back of Rimando’s leg and a screamer by Alonso in the 3rd minute of stoppage time to force ET. Seattle wins 4-2 on PK
13-18 Friberg scores 2 and Montero has three assists in a 5-1 shoot out
19-20 Seattle gets 2 PKs, converts them both (!) and Montero and Fucito each end with 2, Seattle 4 RSL 0
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
by chrisso on Nov 2, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Okay, now you guys are making me think ...
… that I really, really need to introduce y’all to that soccer boardgame I’ve been designing. I’ll make plans to bring it to Blue Highway Games in Queen Anne next month.
by The King of Norway on Nov 2, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Consider my interest piqued
I love board game adaptations of sports. I’d play more Blood Bowl if the figurines weren’t so damn expensive
It's been a long project
First started working on it about two years ago, have playtested it at a couple of cons and gotten some interest from GMT Games.
I used to play a lot of Pursue the Pennant, Statis-Pro and Strat-o-Matic Baseball back in the day. This game is an attempt to capture the statistical realities of those games but it also use an interactive card play engine to give it more of a proper footy feel … you’re not just rolling dice and consulting charts.
by The King of Norway on Nov 2, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Blood Bowl is awesome. I used to have an all-pewter Chaos Dwarves team, WAY back in the day.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
well with home field and late game modifiers
At least we won’t need a natural 20. Too geeky?
-Ben R.
by reesebw on Nov 2, 2011 1:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Your projections give us a 9% chance of victory
Clearly the Sounders equipped a longsword, with that tasty tasty 19-20 crit range.
You know, there was one other time in history when a team faced these kinds of overwhelming odds, when the stage was set for great achievement, and the overwhelming underdog prevailed.
Tonight, we need this level of drama:
Oh hell yes
Goosebumps everytime.
‘And gentlemen in Seattle now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Honey Badger’s day.’
He that shall live this day and come safe home, shall yearly on the vigil feast on Timers and say, tomorrow is St. Keller’s day!
by CapHillSounder on Nov 2, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
St. Cripspin's Day was only a week ago.
That lifts my spirits.
The Seattle Sounders are just reDQulous
Seattle not Constantinople
Maybe now isn’t the time to roll our a new formation, but if we’re going t,o I’d like to see a mirror of RSL’s 4-skinny diamond-2 with Ochoa and Fucito playing the 2, Fredy playing trequartista, Alonso at the base and Flaco and Evans/Friberg shuttling. Without Zak or Rosales, Neagle is the only true winger available. Flaco and Evans/Friberg both drift inside, making the narrow diamond a natural fit and allows Montero to do what he does best, pick smart passes and ghost into scoring positions. Attacking width would have to come from Wahl and Riley, which they can do if they don’t keep sending in useless high crosses to Ochoa.
Bring on Neagle for Evans/Friberg if we’re still chasing the game, or for one of the forwards once we have a lead to defend from a our conventional 4-4-1-1
"Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sounders 'til I die
On a second look, the quote is properly attributed to Confucius.
This is what happens when I believe what I read on the internet without triple-checking.
Sounders 'til I die
This is my favorite of all time
Insulting just about every nerd culture possible.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 2, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope that
If Neagle starts or subs that we can chalk some of his performance on Saturday up due to nerves and playoff experience. Now that he has one in him, I hope he he has that “got something to prove” attitude.
As well, the Honey Badger knows what he did last game and I expect him to be awesome.
Same as many other opinions, I am thinking the changes will be Flaco, Alonso, Friberg, Evans in the middle and Wahl for Leo. Plus Fucito starts.
I could see the subs being Neagle and Ochoa and then maybe throwing in Rodger for Riley if we still need one more goal towards the end.
Don’t hate me because I can not get off work to go to the game but I want to hear you people screaming you @!!ing heads off over the TV. This needs to be World Cup final volume.
Inspire our team!
Sounders!!!!
by fcjake on Nov 2, 2011 1:26 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
If we're still tied at halftime
Do you think that we would change to like a 2-5-4 formation? That would be awesome to watch :)
I think you had it right.
If we are still down 3 I’d like to see the 2-5-4. Keller in the midfield. VICTORY!
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
I like the idea of Wahl
He has the best left foot for corners – no Fucito corners please.
by m_b on Nov 2, 2011 6:21 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
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