Cascadia Away Ticket Allocation; We Want More
by Dave Clark on Nov 22, 2011 2:06 PM PST
in Democracy in Sports
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Today in his Q&A with SoundersFC.com Adrian Hanauer talked about away allocation for Cascadia Cup matches. He notes the success of the first year, but is hesitant to think that more seats are needed due to the new hyper-unbalanced schedule.
We have had early discussions about it. We haven’t made any decisions. It’s probably important to see where the schedule comes out and who we’re playing how often. If we play more games against our Cascadia rivals, I don’t know whether a bigger allotment is necessary. It’s a piece of information we need before we move on with the rest of the discussion. We were happy with the way it worked out this year. There was great atmosphere produced. But at the same time, Portland got to fill their stadium with Portland fans, Vancouver got to fill their stadium with Vancouver fans and we got to fill our stadium with our fans. It will still be a few weeks to a couple of months before we figure that piece out.
And while the schedule wasn't out when the Alliance Council passed a resolution recommending expansion, my reasons for voting in favor are not reduced due the number of games being played. Things were successful, the "trial" period worked. Both the Seattle Sounders and Portland Timbers expanded seating for 2012 by a couple thousand. The Vancouver Whitecaps are in their permanent downtown home and won't have 1000+ unsold seats that were bought by Seattle fans.
The thing is that part of the reason justifying the new schedule is that the regional rivalries can help power the league's growth. Part of what makes those regional rivalries so powerful are the visiting fans. The Alliance Council didn't ask for 5%, or a thousand more seats. There is an understanding that things are more complicated than any ideal. But the schedule doesn't make me want an expansion of Away Allocation any less.
TV ratings for those games are higher for a reason. The atmosphere is part of that. With expanded general seating the seating for away fans should increase as well.
Here's the resolution;
RESOLUTION TO THE CLUB
The Sounders FC Alliance Council urges our front office to actively work with the Portland Timbers and Vancouver Whitecaps to increase the number of tickets available for games in Portland and Vancouver. The 2011 Sounders matches in these cities were extremely successful and popular amongst Sounders fans. We feel that greater success and enjoyment would be shared if the number of available tickets were to increase.
In accordance with standards around the world and our own desires as fans of our club, the Council finds it in the best interest of its constituents to strongly recommend that the largest ticket allotment possible for traveling Sounders fans be pursued for each Cascadia match, in all competitions, each season.
The opinions expressed by myself in the above post are only my own, but should agree in general with that resolution.
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I know one of the issues brought up this year was the amount each team allocates
Seattle has many more seats to work with. Has anything been mentioned on if say Seattle allocates 2,000 seats, would Portland and Vancouver do the same? Personally, I want more allocation overall and am not hugely concerned with a like-for-like allocation if they are not able to…but I just remember it being a heated topic that we shouldn’t allocate more than they are willing to.
In my opinion
If VAN decides to open the second level of BC place for Cascadia matches a serious discussion about more tickets being allocated can begin. There is no reason for us to open up our house for them if they wont do the same for us. As for PDX, they’ve expanded season tickets in their already crowded stadium so I dont see how/why they could allocate more tickets for traveling supporters.
Go banana!
They expanded TOTAL seating
not just season tickets.
We’re also asking for more. 500 more, or 1000 or 250. Just more.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Dont get me wrong
I would expect a 1:1 ratio for all three teams, but I don’t think we should hold back just because the others might not be able to match.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 22, 2011 4:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not knocking the idea
I just havent seen anything that would indicate the dispersal would be anything close to even for all three teams. Our capacity is 38K with the ability for 60K+, BC can fit 52K, but PDX can only fit 20K when they’re busting at the seams. Just because we can doesnt mean we should.
Go banana!
Last year was ~500 for each team
We’re not trying to reinvent the wheel
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I get it
But we shouldnt sacrifice our home field advantage, I still dont know where PDX would put an extra 250/500/whatever traveling supporters for 2/3/4 games.
Go banana!
I realize that
However the seating was primarily expanded in the area around the TA. Based on the % of season ticket hodlers I imagine the 500/1000/250 seats around the traveling supporters section are occupied. If they have the space, great. But they’re not going to kick out their fans to make room for us.
Go banana!
"Vancouver got to fill their stadium with Vancouver fans"
That’s a matter of perspective, I guess.
Sounders 'til I die
by SounderJunkie on Nov 22, 2011 3:18 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
As we were singing
“Our house…in the middle of BC”
“Our house…cause your stands are all rave green”
“Our house…now give us our trophy”
“Our house…in the middle of BC”
On a somewhat unrelated note,
it will be interesting to see how the timbers address the capacity with their stadium over the next few years. Considering that they just remodeled the stadium (and went $5 overbudget in the process), they are going to have a hard time expanding in the near future.
Sounders 'til I die
A whole five dollars?!?!
This is madness!!
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Nov 22, 2011 5:26 PM PST up reply actions
:-D
I suspect he forgot the “mil”, as in “$5mil”. Which just happens to be how much over budget the remodel went.
(still laughing)
This. Is. SPARTAAAAAAAA!!!!
Sorry. Couldn’t resist.
One could argue the plan this year worked.
Especially based on Vancouver away. 500 hardcore fans got to sit together which is a pretty good number, and tons of other fans got tickets through normal means and still got to go to the game, all without major incident.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t be good to allow more then 500 to go as a group, but I am pointing out the plan worked this year pretty well.
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
Tickets
I don’t think it’s really necessary. Supporters groups are making this 10x of a bigger deal than it really is.
I went to both Portland and Vancouver away games. The Portland tickets I bought late and had to get off StubHub at 2x face value. The Vancouver tickets I bought through ticketmaster at face value. Both games were awesome. If someone wants to go to either game it’s easy and nothing is stopping you. Just buy a ticket like everyone else.
Sounders fans could easily pack 2k faces into Jeld-Wen. I don’t want 10% of CLink to be Timbers and they don’t want 10% of Jeld-Wen to be Sounders. Perfectly reasonable.
If you buy tickets in a section that is not designated for away supporters
and you wear your team’s gear to the match, they can remove you from your seat, and even from the stadium. They make an effort to fit you into the away section, but they can remove you from the stadium. That’s far from the ideal situation when more than 500 from each city want to attend the away matches.
by Randy Meeker on Nov 22, 2011 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
Right they also limited quantities sitting next to each other
If you wanted a group of fans, i’ve heard stories as small as 10, they refused to sell to addresses in and around the Seattle area.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Rubbish
Seattle jersey wearing fans were spread wide and far within the stadium in both Vancouver and Portland. There were easily 1000+ Seattle fans in Vancouver with no major issues.
I’m hard pressed to care strongly when supporters groups get all the tickets. How big is the ECS are other supporter groups sections at CLink. Around 2000 maybe? That’s about 5% stadium capacity, and yet they get 100% of away game tickets? No thanks. Create a fair distribution via lottery and my interest levels may rise. I’ll buy tickets either way.
Don’t get me wrong on any of this, I’d love to sit in the core Seattle section and for those tickets to be easier to get. Who wouldn’t? But I can also understand the situation through the eyes of each team’s front office and I can’t get particularly upset when their decisions are perfectly logical and fair. I’ll grab my trusty pitchfork and torch as soon as I’m unable to acquire tickets but until then I’ll keep buying tickets, keep travelling, and keep having an awesome time cheering for my team on the road.
by lordcecil on Nov 22, 2011 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Dozens of fans were escorted into the Away support section
It is the formal policy of all three clubs
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Incomplete Story
What’s the full story? Sounders fan were scattered all throughout both Jeld-Wen and Empire Field. I sat far opposite the Sounders section at Empire Field and have a friend who sat behind the goal opposite Timbers Army at Jeld-Wen. Why were “dozens” moved but hundreds left alone?
If it’s a simple seat swap then that sounds good to me. Buy a ticket anywhere and get moved to the Sounders section? Yes please.
Yes, quite simple to pay for sideline box and be moved to a upper corner
why not just expand the away seating?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
No Cheating
Did someone actually get moved from a sideline box to an upper corner or is that conjecture?
In Seattle
I have season tickets four rows from the field at about the 25yard line (football). There were three distinctively Portland supporters in the first row. They never got moved. They were singing the songs and nobody told them to stop. I have to wonder if anyone ever got moved.6+
I know the policy
Enforcement varies, that shouldn’t be a surprise
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I think the point is that they reserve the right to remove you..
…if you turn out to be a problem for any reason.
The issue
The issue for the supporter groups is that they want to stand together in order to maximize their ability to support their team.
Watching your own team play and not being able to support to the fullest is a frustrating experience.
It should be noted that even non-affiliated reps voted for this resolution
inlcuding myself. It passed with no votes against.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I don't know how hard this would be, but even more than more supporters seats, I'd like to see gameday trains to and from each Cascadia match.
Its seems like common sense. Each stadium is conspicuously close to the main train station, and would be perfect for 500+ fans making their way too and from matches. It keeps overzealous drinkers off the streets, keeps troublemakers on a schedule to get back to the train after the games.
I would have done the train for the two Vancouver matches I went to this year (Their opener, vs Seattle) but the times make it completely impractical without hotel reservations.
This has been investigated by somebody who is in the industry
There is no equipment for this. The Sounder train is not allowed to go all the way to Portland. If I remember correctly, Amtrak has one train available for charter in the whole country, and it usually resides on the east coast.
The ECS would most likely be going by train if it was possible and economically viable.
Do you happen to remember what the reason for them not being allowed to go all the way is?
(bow chika wow wow)
Doesn’t it run from Portland on Seahawks gamedays?
I’ve got to think that Amtrak would take advantage of 500+ riders. I mean, what are those trains doing when they aren’t on their routes?
Exact info
I dug up the post on the ECS board, and it seems I exaggerated the situation a little bit., but the bottom line is still that a train trip is next to impossible. Here’s the link to the post where you can find details: http://weareecs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=8402&p=156847#p156847
But in short: the equipment that they have does not have downtime during which they could make a chartered trip instead. They have two trains, and each have capacity for 250 people, which is not enough for a Cascadia away trip.
If they could time the matches to allow the "chartered trip", or reschedule their normal trains,
They could simply attach the two trains together, making it more than enough for those who aren’t traveling in other vehicles.
God, I know there’s technical issues, but the train just seems so obvious…
As for number of visitors allowed, I maintain that the goal should be 5% of capacity, Fifa regulations.
That’s 1000 seats for us in Portland, 3500 for them up here, 2600 in Vancouver.
Except that it isn't a FIFA regulation, but a recommendation
And it results in thousands of unsold seats in most situations
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Worst case scenario they can have a cutoff date for finding those tickets homes.
If the visiting team doesn’t pick them up, the remaining seats go on sale in the home market.
Oh the horror!
Empty seats at a stadium, how can we survive?
Anyway, I don’t think this would be an issue in Cascadia matches.
The horror comes from the fact home fans of the team would want to buy those seats
but they would have to sit empty. Serve your own fans first and foremost.
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
The way it should be looked at
is that you are serving your own fans by offering them a chance to buy tickets at away matches. And not just any fans, but some of your most passionate fans.
Also, since we do not have permanent arrangements for away sections (unlike in many European stadiums), unsold away tickets can be sold to home fans. This is indeed commonly done n Europe. Typically when you see half empty away sections, the stadium is not sold out otherwise either. Not always of course, but typically.
Every stadium is required to have 150 seats set aside for away fans
On average those get sold three days prior to home fans.
The only reason Cascadia Away Allocation is an issue is because this is the only current region where each team in a rivalry sells out.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I travelled to both Portland and Vancouver last year
From my perspective, the FO’s decision about how many should go has been over run by demand. At each stadium, almost twice as many people came and sat outside the supporters sections as came and sat in the supporter section.
I’m no security expert, but it seems to me, you would rather have the away fans sequestered in one section than have them mixed in with locals through out the stadium. At Vancouver, I saw security get called to several of these small pockets of Sounders support during the away game, where as the supporters section was pretty much event free.
So, the question isn’t should 1500 tickets be allocated, but does the FO want to hire the additional guards to “keep the peace” everywhere in the stadium, or provide a supporters section large enough to hold the current demand?
Or to put it another way
I would rather give Portland 1000 tickets vs have some prick take the Stubhub seats next to me… please.
Percentage is fairer
It should be proportional to thje side of the stadia, with the visitors getting always the same percentage of tickets.
I would increase it a bit every season until manage to give/get 25% of tne tickets.
This how a stadium looks like with a 3:1 ratio in a derby: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QqCY8Hy1E&t=4m44s
That would require each team losing season ticket holders
which means fewer in attendance for every other game.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Why?
It could just create cheaper Cascadia-less STH.
Those could even have preference for the away tickets…
If you know people that want tickets to every home game but Cascadia I'd love to meet them
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I also said to increase it slowly
If teams decide that less is better, no problem. But still, it should be as great as 15%, IMHO.
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