Open Flavor Fridays - Start Me Up

by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 11:43 AM PST

Sure, it's midday Saturday, but that doesn't mean the week should go without an OFF-topic post.

The theme this week is the starter/appetizer/amuse bouche/small plate/tapas, by now I think you have the point. Some day, after winning the lottery or finding some rich patron, I would love to do a soccer & beer bar that only serves starters. The portions may wind up larger, but the idea would be that small sizes mean that you get more variety and that guests would share.

I'm particularly fond of any thing in a thin dough. These little nuggets of goodness, either baked or fried, make for easy serving, though they do prevent blogging while eating. Greasy keyboards are no good.

Here's your OFF-topic post for the week for all the non-soccer stuff that you want to share with the community? Input on favorite small plates is appreciated.

FanPosts only represent the opinions of the poster, not of Sounder at Heart.

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Homebrew question

So I just bottled my IPA after about 3 weeks fermentation. Two in primary one in secondary. Large amount of extra fresh cascade hops were added in the secondary, in addition to the hop pellets used throughput the recipe.

During bottling we tasted it, and it had a glorious hoppy flavor. Very smooth too. The problem is, it feels like there isn’t really any “body” to it. I would maybe compare it to tasting like a hoppy lager, rather than a hoppy full bodied ale. Or another description was it tasted like it was watered down, but we used the amount of water it called for.

I’m wondering a couple things. First, why is it like this? The recipe was a kit we put together following the directions at Homebrew Heaven. Second, is there something we are lacking that is causing no body? Do we need a longer boil with the grains or something like that?

Brew process was boiling with propane burner, chilled down at the end by pouring the three gallon concentrate over two gallons of solid ice and one gallon refrigerated water. Kept out of light the whole fermentation. In the last couple days, crashed the temp down to 36 degrees in kegerator to drop everything, transferred to bottling bucket, then bottled. Bottles are currently conditioning. The beer tastes good, just seems to be missing something. We used six gallons of spring water from the store.

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 12:13 PM PST via mobile reply actions

Full grain or extract?

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by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions

Extract

Haven’t made the jump yet

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 1:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions

Did you take measurements

of the specific gravity before and after fermentation? Are you doing purely malt extract alone, or are you also steeping specialty grains?

-Ben R.

by reesebw on Dec 17, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions

It's a malt/grain mixture

We also steeped grains with it, but the extract is the bulk of it. Did not measure gravities before and after, never have. This is the first time I’ve had a batch turn out like this. But then again this is only the second IPA I’ve done, this one being a different kit than I’ve used before.

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions

One thing you could start doing

is measuring the specific gravity one you have the wort set before you pitch the yeast. I am usually too scared to contaminate my beer by measuring it again after fermentation, but it will help you see if you are close the the recipe and give you an idea of how much “body” and alcohol the beer contains. Also it is good to note if you want to modify the recipe.

-Ben R.

by reesebw on Dec 17, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions

Taking the measurements is really the only way you get repeatability

You can still make great beer without all the data, but you may not be able to get it again.

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by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions

I really should get a hydrometer

I’ll add that to the list next time I head over there. I thought it was just to see when fermentation was done.

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 4:32 PM PST up reply actions

My understanding is that both your malt and your grains will relate to body

You can move to a heavier malt, but probably steeping grains longer should help

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by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions

That's gotta be it

I’ve been afraid to steep longer than directed, because I’ve heard that too long and the grains start to break down and you get some weird flavors that way. But the way this went I’ve gotta believe it needed to be done longer. It’s such a weird result..it really does taste good, but it just doesn’t have that fullness that it should.

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 1:45 PM PST up reply actions

Also, was the recipe

for a 5 or 6 gallon batch? Most extract recipes I find are for 5 gallon batches (despite most carboys being 6 gallons). If you literally boiled three gallons of water and then topped it off with three more gallons of water/ice you are probably at something like 5.5 gallons total after subtracting the volume lost to evaporation. So if it was a 5 gallon recipe it would be diluted with the volume of water you added. If the people at the store told you to buy 6 gallons of water you were not supposed to use all of it, the 6th gallon is there to make up for what you lose in evaporation. I’m not sure how much experience you have, sorry if those are too basic of concerns. It just seemed odd that you mentioned using exactly 6 gallons of water.

-Ben R.

by reesebw on Dec 17, 2011 1:44 PM PST up reply actions

I was thinking that at first...

But I re-read the directions and they specify a starting volume of 6 gallons, with a yield of 5-5.5 gallons after evaporation, trub removal, etc. I’m thinking next time I try this IPA I might start with 5 and just add a little to top things off a bit at the end of the boil?

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions

You should

create a 5 gallon mark on your primary so you can top off with a bit more accuracy. Do the wort and ice, then,after it’s in the primary, use the refrigerated water to top it off to the markings on your primary.

I am not that keen on the science of it all, but 5.5 is 10% volume than 5 gallons and that could make a decent difference in the gravity of beer if I’m not mistaken. Also, since you did a partial boil, I’m not sure you actually ever lost as much water as the full boil anticipated so you may have ended up diluting it a bit more than you expected. If you have the capacity to boil more than 3 gallons though you should. I am under the impression that you should boil as close to the full amount as possible. If you don’t want to by a wort chiller I hear it works just fine to freeze water bottles, sanitize them, and then toss them in to chill your wort.

Also did your recipe give you a target original gravity and final gravity? That can help us know what the recipe was shooting for.

-Ben R.

by reesebw on Dec 17, 2011 6:41 PM PST up reply actions

Just brewed another batch with a friend yesterday

It was a much different process, but I took your advice into account. At the end we topped the fermentor off to 5.0 gallons. We also did an ice bath in the sink to cool it down, although it took a lot longer. I think I’m gonna go with ice gallons still. Works much faster.

It does have the original and final gravity, although I’m at work at this moment and don’t have them with me. I’m gonna try and swing by Homebrew Heaven in Everett to grab a hydrometer. My buddy has one and we used it on the batch we did yesterday and it measured a touch lower than the original said it was supposed to be.

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 19, 2011 7:43 AM PST up reply actions

A few thoughts

1. You may have picked something up in the ice or refrigerated water that acted as a contaminant.
A chiller coil has the advantage that it can be sterilized and the cold water doesn’t touch the wort.

2. Is the mouthfeel off or is more a case of it lacking depth in the flavor profile? From your description it sounds like its more an issue of the density of the mouthfeel. The simple answer would be to up the quantity of extract slightly. You could also steep longer to allow more of the elements from the grains to seep in. One grain that can be used in steeping to impart more body is toasted flaked oats. Might seem strange for an IPA, but I’ve had good luck with it rounding out the mouthfeel in my extract brews.

3. Sometimes a judiciously used spice can also add to the mouthfeel. Put the hops you want use under your nose along with your malt. Now bring a spice under your nose and see how it impacts the balance. Grains of Paradise or Orange peel might round things out for you. By the way, buy these at the grocery store rather than the brew shop. You’ll spend less.

by Abbott Smith on Dec 17, 2011 3:21 PM PST up reply actions

A reply to your thoughts:

1. That is possible, but as far as I know the water in the jugs are sterile and food grade. We just used 1 gallon jugs of water from the grocery store, froze two inside the jugs and fridged the other, then cut the plastic off the frozen ones using a clean razor.

2. Not sure exactly what you mean by mouthfeel. I think I can identify the issue better with lack of depth in flavor profile. But if mouthfeel = “fullness”, then I suppose it’d be mouthfeel. The “beer” flavor is there, it’s just weak. I will definitely steep longer next time, and probably go for some extra grains or add some of the flaked oats – I like the sound of that.

3. Good call on the orange peel. I’ve had a number of IPAs with the orange peel added in to complement the hops they used. I believe it’s chinook that has the citrusy notes.

Thanks for the thoughts!!

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions

mouthfeel should equal body

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by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions

thanks

by chrisperry1983 on Dec 17, 2011 4:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions

OK

Sounds like the water to grain bill ratio is probably the culprit. If you use the oats you can toast them on a rimmed cookie sheet in your oven. Just shake them once in a while. And hey you get to drink your experiments.

by Abbott Smith on Dec 17, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions

Only massive failures are really failures

Like my attempt at Honey Badger Wheat….sad

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions

I get to crack open my latest batch on Monday.

It’s a Boddingtons style beer fermented in the same carboy I used for hard apple cider a few months ago.

Smelled delicious when I bottled it, just a hint of tart apple.

Food wise: Tapas is the greatest culinary invention but I love pupusas too!

by DaveValleDrinkNight on Dec 17, 2011 6:04 PM PST up reply actions

Tapas and Peruvian food

Absolutely love Spanish, Basque and Peruvian tapas like dishes. We never go to Portland without stopping for dinner at Andina’s in the Pearl District. Empanadas, grilled bits of heart, scallops, olives and asparagus. Yummmmmmmm.

by Abbott Smith on Dec 17, 2011 3:27 PM PST reply actions

I grew up in Peru--AMAZING food...

Although we don’t have anything like the excellent Andina (anymore—since Mixtura closed in Kirkland) there are a couple Peruvian places in town. Pollos San Fernando is a rotisserie chicken joint with two locations, Lynnwood and Rainier Ave. In addition to chicken they’ve got a number of other Peruvian classics. http://www.pollossanfernando.com/index.html

There’s a new place in Bellevue called Amazon Grill. I haven’t tried it yet, but I’d be interested in hearing about it if anyone else does. The seem to specialize in ceviche with a few other Peruvian foods as well as the Brazilian meat-on-a-stick experience: http://www.amazongrillbellevue.com/

by asimismo on Dec 17, 2011 10:15 PM PST up reply actions

Today I made homemade squash soup

Ok, i cheated on the stock/broth part, but the rest was homemade.

There will be soup at the bar. Soup and tapas.

And beer

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Dec 17, 2011 5:17 PM PST reply actions

I really need to start getting bones from a butcher

It’s really hard to schedule stock making when the majority of my chicken bones come from the left over carcases at work that they are going to toss (we only keep enough for one batch of stock at work at a time). And I haven’t had a good veal stock since I left culinary school.

by Derek R on Dec 18, 2011 4:14 AM PST up reply actions

Have you had success with grocery store butchers or just specialty stores?

by yuniform on Dec 21, 2011 8:44 AM PST via Android app up reply actions

Fish Frames

The thing that drives me nuts around here is trying to get fish frames. Every fish monger either buys their fish already filleted or they lump all of their fish frames together with the salmon. When I sweat fish frames, I don’t want salmon in the mix because it overpowers everything else.

Finally just started buying whole fish when I want to make a Boulliabaise so that I can clean my own frames. Unfortunately, the whole fish options are also limited on the East side of the lake.

by Abbott Smith on Dec 21, 2011 9:00 AM PST up reply actions

I know this is South Seattle but

Mutual Fish is about 3 minutes south on Rainier Ave from Exit 3 off I-90. It’s an institution been there for like fifty years. Great people.
Still not on the eastside but free parking and occasionally they have frames and heads. I would call ahead because a lot of chefs order from them, too.

Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!

by chrisso on Dec 21, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions

it might be exit 2.

Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!

by chrisso on Dec 21, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions

Chilli

I made a pot of chilli. Threw in a hint of backstrap molasses with the warm spices. Man did that work well. By the way saw my first Southern Tier Blackwater Chocolate of the season this weekend for anyone was interested in trying it.

by Abbott Smith on Dec 17, 2011 9:28 PM PST reply actions

My mom earned her way through the UW as a baker

So I have had flour under my nails since I was 7 or 8.
That is a long way of saying I like making small baked goodies. Savory for starters.
Cheese rolls made with a homemade egg bread recipe.
Tiny calzones and open faced thin crust pizzas the recipe is so simple it is memorized.
Calzone or thin crust recipe:
1 cup water 100 to 105 degrees (not too hot or cold for max yeast happiness)
1 T yeast
1 T sugar
dashes of your preferred seasonings (I usually do equal parts oregano, basil, red pepper flakes but sometimes I change it up depending on your toppings)
mix to get a cloudy mixture and let the yeast start to lunch on the sugar
add 3 cups white flour about a 1/2 cup at a time
Adding the last 1/2 c of the 3 is usually done on a nice flat surface (a cookie sheet or cutting board usually works fine) work the dough into a ball.

Let the dough rise in a warm corner of your kitchen for about a half of a soccer game (or two FIFA 11 games depending on time of day)
Punch down your dough and cut your dough into 6 to 8 small pieces.
Roll them out, and make your pizzas (toppings are totally up to you).

You can make 2 9 × 12 pizzas thin crust with this dough, one medium thickness crust
or about 8 small pizzas that can be cut into smaller mini zas.

Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!

by chrisso on Dec 17, 2011 10:28 PM PST reply actions