Are the Sounders Cheap?

We could use a guitar player though…

It’s one thing to say that a higher payroll has no tie to winning as a general league-wide stat. It’s another thing to say that you want the Sounders, with their competent scouting, to sign a big-name player who would complement the team well. That, I would argue, WOULD have a tie to winning.

I actually had no idea that people accused the Sounders FO of being cheap before I read this post. And now I’m kind of up in the air about it. With all the bragging about where our attendance would rank among the top leagues in the world, and given the rather low MLS salary cap, I am surprised that our payroll is not in the top few in the league.

Who are the Sounders competing against in the USA? There are few, if any, straight forward competes between SSFC and other MLS teams. Oh, we can make a little more money here and there, e.g. transfer fees, gate revenues (which are capped) etc. And we now have the academies, HGP, etc. But competition is muted at best as everyone in MLS is getting money regardless of who wins, sells more jerseys, etc. You asked if the Sounders are cheap. I would say no, especially in view of the extreme revenue sharing. Ask Adrian how much the MLS muzzles or tempers conduct of SSFC, especially with other teams outside the US like Chelsea. He admitted to me that MLS is quite intrusive in those affairs. Regarding a DP, I agree that the beta of a DP added to an otherwise salary-capped team would be small, but it could be significant over a season.

but they still are tied at the hip to MLS. Most of the money from these endeavors goes to MLS and then is paid back to the Sounders as a “management fee.” Overall, operator/investors are compensated by MLS by a "management fee," which is apportioned through 50% of local ticket sales and concessions, the first $1,125,000 of local broadcast revenues, 100% of overseas tour revenues, and 50% of net revenues from the MLS Championship Game. Per the league corporate structure, MLS owns all teams, team equipment, ticket rights, intellectual property and broadcast rights. Each owner/investor is only owns stock in the MLS and is characterized as an “equity holder.” So yes, Adrian and Drew got some coin from the LAG’s recent Asia Tour. Come on, say it with me Jeremiah, there is no spoon—I mean “Sounders.”

Until then: no.

The NFL got tattooed with antitrust last year in a Supreme Court case, and it turns out many scholars think that MLS will get hit too—MLS narrowly escaped it in 2002. It may well be that the MLS 1.0 was necessary to not go the way of NASL, and they haven’t so far. But things are now quite a bit different. Just remember that other leagues revenue sharing and salary caps are part of the “settlement” between owners and players, and are consequently not subject to antitrust scrutiny. In Fraser, soccer players sued MLS alleging that the salary cap was “price fixing” on labor wages by MLS, and the court punted and did not rule on MLS being a single entity or not. Now many think—myself included—that MLS won’t have single entity status anymore because of several rule changes, e.g. DP status, academies, etc., and the new case, and could get hit for price fixing. It’s truly ironic, but the impetus to individually succeed has likely cost MLS it’s single entity status. Middle of the road, squashed like a grape…

Well said.

Part of the Sounders approach should also be considered helping to build a league, not just a franchise. The new teams and stadiums are building the MLS financial stability. This will pay dividends to the Sounders in the long run because it will enable the league to grow it’s cap structure.

Soccer competes for sporting audience in the US in ways that it doesn’t throughout the rest of the world. MLS has taken a very conservative business model to avoid the graveyard of professional soccer leagues that litter the US landscape. By building slowly, the league is positioning itself to have the entire league benefit from the successes of individual franchises.

And when anyone compares the Sounders and MLS to other leagues, remember how many of these leagues have teams that are collapsing under the financial burdens of unsustainable payrolls. How many of the leagues are truly competitive from top to bottom? Do we really want a league where one or two teams perpetually dominate and no one else even stands a chance?

For me I would like to see the MLS continue to build intelligently. I think that a fair goal would be to have MLS build it’s salary structure up to the point that it can compete with Mexico in the North American market. I would also like to see the quality of play build to point that the top developmental teams in the MLS have reputations that rival squads like Porto and Ajax.

It’s still up in the air whether or not Rosales will be labeled a DP if I’m not mistaken.

If what you say is true and Tagoe was indeed the backup plan, then the obvious next criticism is that the Sounders didn’t cast their net wide enough. When the team has a very obvious need (target forward), a very obvious spot available (an open DP slot) to fill that need, and a very open time period to make a move (one full month of open transfers in the summer), not getting the job done is super disappointing and suggests that more could have been done. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but I really hope this doesn’t happen again on Hanaur’s watch.

We honestly should have had 2 or 3 players lined up with contracts to sign and then at the last minute, we break off talks with all but 1 of them and finish the deal. The fact that we only had 1 and it fell through probably cost us in the post season.

This article is all about how the Sounders have more resources available to them than all other MLS teams (except maybe LA) to go out and get talent and to keep that talent healthy and happy. It’s asking the question of whether or not we as fans think the Sounders are using their resources wisely or squandering them. Given that, last season’s summer transfer window, and to a lesser extent, the early transfer window, can definitely be viewed as epic failures. With all those recruiting and scouting resources available, and all that lead time before the transfer window opened, we saw no results, no action taken.

In the same time period, LA, with a much less pronounced need, managed to court and sign Robbie Keane and make room for him by successfully trading away another, less desirable DP. The fact that LA was able to accomplish this and then went on to win MLS Cup is probably the most damning fact of all.

Again, I don’t think 2011 was a failure for the Sounders. I just think we had the resources, roster space, and sufficient lead time to make a move that would have been necessary to win a league championship. The opportunity was lost and we didn’t achieve one of our goals. As fans, we should at least expect that such a golden opportunity is not squandered again.

For 2012, they’ve already indicated that Rosales’ contract could be a DP contract, but they have the resources necessary to buy it down and keep the DP spot available for another potential DP signing. This time I really hope they’ve learned from this summer’s events and cast their net wide in order to given them the best possibility of landing a 4th 3rd DP. If Mauro ends up being labeled a DP, I really hope it’s not because we squandered the opportunity we have now.

They did have one main guy they were in conversations with, and a bunch of guys that didn’t fit as well.

Having seen the Nkufo thing blow up, I don’t blame them for making sure they pick the right guy rather than adding a piece that will corrode everything else they’ve built.

He did cost 400k

I would add tho that the bills and revs probably qualify in my eyes as I see elite as a sustained level of success that doesn’t necessarily require a title although one helps. Elite doesn’t have to equal dynasty. But we’re getting into another whole debate aren’t we?

Elite by itself doesn’t mean the single best, and it doesn’t mean the single best for an extended period of time, it means a special few of many, the implication of the word is plural. Over the last 3 years there’s 3 elite MLS teams, LAG, RSL, and SSFC,

We’re arguing terms here, and there’s no disputing the definition of elite, it’s not singular, it’s not extraordinarily long term.

Dynasty implies a ruler or a sequence of rulers, if you want an exclusive long term word implying dominance, that’d be not, not elite.

Our power and influence can be defined by winning or determining our own fate and the fate of teams we beat, it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with fans, merchandise, free agents, twitter followers, or even attendance, but I would agree that those factors help, and I’d argue that we’re as good as any other in those categories, in MLS.

“in MLS” is the key here which the original poster put in his subject line, coupled with the term elite, means the top teams (plural) in the league. He qualified his statement, and the word elite doesn’t necessitate a pool of 100, or 1,000, or 10,000, to generate even 1 elite. It’s a plural term, and when applied to a league of 18 or 19, it’d mean at least 2, and there’s nothing in the definition that would exclude the word from being applied to a pool of that small size.

I wouldn’t say we’re among the elite clubs in CONCACAF, I wouldn’t say we’re among the elite clubs in the world, but we’re among the MLS elite for sure, we’ve won multiple trophies and competed in multiple competitions for 3 years straight, I think that qualifies.