Seattle Sounders' Three-Year Window - It started in 2010
There's been a ton of talk about how Sigi Schmid won the MLS Cup and Supporters Shield in his third year with both the Columbus Crew and the Los Angeles Galaxy. There is a simplified version of this tale that implies that year three for him is a magical year, that Seattle should be in the MLS Cup Final or have to break up the core. But that ignores that Sigi was unjustly fired from LA in what should have been the middle of a great run (in year 2 there he won the US Open Cup and appeared in the MLS Cup Final). In Columbus their 2009 team was essentially built by Sigi won the Supporters Shield and was knocked out of the Playoffs by eventual Champions Real Salt Lake.
In both of those cases the other teams had a core upon which to build. In Seattle he started from scratch. While those other two cores were young, they existed. Here Sigi was building on Sebastien Le Toux, Roger Levesque, Zach Scott, Taylor Graham and Sanna Nyassi. If we consider this year's team, none of those will be part of the core.
How does Seattle's 2011 squad stack up to the players in LA and Columbus? Sigi answered during his last conference call with reporters.
The Seattle team is still younger than the other two teams. The nucleus is a little younger; [both] in terms of years in the league and even chronological age. When you’re looking at crew, Marshall was in third or fourth year in league. Gaven was sixth year in league. Those were young players, but vets to the league. In LA it was kind of same thing. We had Ezra and Enfuego and Jones who had been in league for a while. Here our age within the League is not as great.
Average players are only in the league for 2 or 3 years. Good players for about 6. Great ones for a year or two. That pretty much puts a team in a situation where they can only have a core around for about 3 years or so. Seattle's core players, or as we say here their starting caliber players are in their third year, but not the third year of their championship window. Expecting them to be an MLS Cup power in year one is revisionist. That was year zero. This is year two, and in a more competitive league.
Sigi also talked about how the three window relates to the strength of the league now.
It’s still a realistic window. The league has improved and gotten better; as much on the team management side as anywhere else. Early on, teams struggled - there just wasn’t enough planning or enough knowledge to move quickly. Most teams are pretty solid in one or two positions now [and] can use allocation money wisely to get the team moving forward, every team has someone to do that. A three year [window] to come back, is still possible. What we’ve been able to do in Seattle and hopefully we can push our three years, being able to stay at the top from get go is pretty unique.
But with the age of Seattle's players it is hard to think that they are in year three.
| Player | Age | SSFC | MLS | Pro |
| Fredy Montero | 23 | 2 | 2 | 6 |
| Blaise Nkufo | 35 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 18 |
| Nate Jaqua | 29 | 2 | 9 | 9 |
| Steve Zakuani | 23 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Alvaro Fernandez | 25 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 4 |
| Michael Tetteh | 22 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Osvaldo Alonso | 25 | 2 | 2 | 3 |
| Brad Evans | 25 | 2 | 4 | 4 |
| Erik Friberg | 25 | 0 | 0 | 6 |
| Leo Gonzalez | 30 | 1.5 | 1.5 | 11 |
| James Riley | 28 | 2 | 2 | 6 |
| Jeff Parke | 28 | 1 | 6 | 7 |
| Jhon Kennedy Hurtado | 26 | 2 | 2 | 7 |
| Patrick Ianni | 25 | 2 | 2 | 5 |
| Kasey Keller | 41 | 2 | 2 | 19 |
| Average: | 27.33 | 1.43 | 2.37 | 7.13 |
| Next Year: | 26.33 | 2.46 | 3.63 | 5.92 |
That average looks even smaller when we take out Gonzalez, Keller and Nkufo as is certain to happen next year. This is year two of Seattle's window. The core has really been together barely over a year. Several core players missed more than half a season in either 2009 or 2010. If it does take three years for Sigi's teams to peak, then the peak will be 2012.
That season they will be younger, but will have more experience together and in MLS. Adding in a player or two from within to the core, plus a different DP in the current mold of Montero/Fernandez should maximize the chances of maintaining the window for trophies.
Of course the target is more than just a US Open Cup this season, but to let's not get crazy with the MLS Cup or bust mentality. This is only year two of the three year plan.
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I was thinking the same thing when he
said something along the lines of ‘its time to win this year or else.’ I think that is a little extreme considering, like you said, we had to start from scratch. Even still, this team may do it this year, and we might find out right away. Its getting exciting, thats for sure. Great stuff as always, Dave.
by south sound supporter on Feb 12, 2011 3:36 PM PST reply actions
If break up the core
means Nkufo, Jaqua, Ianni, Gonzalez, Scott, Graham, Levesque, and Keller (which I think you could make that argument) then maybe it’s not so radical to bust them up… or at least threaten to. That said, I do agree that the playoffs are too much of a crapshoot to take mean anything significant.
I also think that the process of breaking up our “year 0” core (Nyassi, Le Toux, Marshall, Sturgis, King, and that Swedish guy) generally yielded positive results, and if another “blow up” yielded a similar improvement… then great. In any case, I get the vibe that many minds around the SSFC blogosphere have gotten much too worked up and worried about that early season Sigi sound bite.
If nothing else, the phrase “early season Sigi sound bite” is fun to say out loud.
Scott, Graham and Levesque don't play enough to be considered the core
Ianni is pretty young (25) v Parke (28)
Even Jaqua is on the “right side” of 30.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Agreed
Good write up. It’s amazing the difference our 3 oldest players make on the average age across the team.
My only reservation with what’s presented here is that I don’t want to start making excuses now for why we might now win the MLS cup. Despite the fact that this is really “year two” as you point out, I still think we have a good shot at winning it all this year. That’s what I’m going into this season expecting from the team.
Yes. but...
If we can’t put at least a league-average keeper on the field next year the window will slam shut abruptly (paging Marcus Hahnemann).
by bauckus on Feb 12, 2011 6:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Oh, I'm about to look at that
Keller may have been league average in 2010
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
No argument here
(Although one would think we could spend less on a league-average keeper — no disrespect to Kasey intended.)
by bauckus on Feb 12, 2011 8:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Didn't he already say
he was going to end his career at Wolverhampton?
by B-Lot tailgater on Feb 13, 2011 7:52 AM PST up reply actions
he lost the starting job
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Feb 13, 2011 6:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
good article!
i love how our core is young! other then a select few!
do you have any idea who will be cut before florida???
and also as of right now who do you think for sure has made the team??
The battles are simple right now
Ford v Meredith – but this cut won’t happen until the last possible day.
Neagle v Prieto v Bah – Right now I think one of these players makes the roster as Jaqua goes to the IL. For two to make the squad both would have to beat out Estrada who I think is the most easily replacable of everyone on the team. If I had to pick it would be Neagle that makes the team.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Do you think there's any chance
of Noonan being cut? (crosses fingers)
by bauckus on Feb 12, 2011 10:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
1 extra senior player on the roster
I believe there’s 21 senior players currently and only room for 20. So, one would have to be cut unless the Sounders play with the IR list. I think Noonan is the most likely to go.
yeah i think your right
and honestly i dont see a reason for keeping noonan..
he wont play and he takes away from getting younger guys with more upside on the roster.
do you think the rest of the draftees
other then the two goalies will make the team?
Calling 2009 "year zero" is what's revisionist
On one hand you say that Sigi has some kind of magical ability to win in his third year with a team, and then you say that 2011 is actually just year two. That doesn’t quite add up.
I get the point of the story – that this is actually the second year with most of your current core group of players. But some of your best players (Montero, Alonso, Zakuani, Keller) where on that 2009 team. Are you trying to say this is actually just their second year with the club?
And if 2009 was year zero, then can D.C. United have their Open Cup trophy back?
Sigi didn’t start over from scratch in 2010. This is year three, bro.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekend Writer for SBNation DC.
I didn't say what you claim I said
one hand you say that Sigi has some kind of magical ability to win in his third year
That never appears. In fact I have been denying that very statement for over a month.
And the fact that you lost the Final to a team that was clearly not as good as it would be later doesn’t mean you get the trophy.
Unlike when Sigi was in LA and C-bus in year 3 his core hasn’t been together over two years yet. Those teams had more experience together, were older, wiser, more veterany.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Who is your core then?
Yeah, your team has lots of youth, and so there are of course some differences between Seattle and LA/Columbus. But a good 75% of your core has absolutely been together for two years. To me, the three-year window implies that it takes three years to build a championship caliber team. Sigi started building this team in 2009, hence 2011 is year three.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekend Writer for SBNation DC.
by Martin Shatzer on Feb 13, 2011 10:43 AM PST reply actions
It's looking at it from a three-year window perspective...
Point being that the Sounders will still be very young in 2012 and that whatever window existed should still be open. I’m not personally worried about this being year 2 or year 3, as much as I’m interested in how long this current group of players can reasonably be given to win MLS hardware.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, North American soccer editor SB Nation and of course follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 13, 2011 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
That actually makes more sense
Arguing year two vs. year three is just semantics I guess. If the point of story is to say that this Sounders team has a longer window than just three years, I can agree.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekend Writer for SBNation DC.
by Martin Shatzer on Feb 13, 2011 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
So you expected the 2009 Sounders to be a trophy contender based on talent?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
FWIW, I did
before the Hurtado, Jaqua, Evans, Alonso injuries decimated the spine of the team.
You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. We are all around you, there is no escape.
My three year window is NOT that it takes three years
I say exactly that it is NOT.
But that a team has a three year window in which to succeed, before it gets broken up and no longer exists.
As to who the core is, there’s a big old table right there with the core. Six of the 15 players (two of them DPs) listed were not on the team to start in 2009. Next year the number of players without 2+ years of experience will be between 1 and 3.
It takes 3 years to build is clearly defied when the average player is in the league for less than 3 years.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Also 4 or 5 probable first XI players don't have 2 years on the club
Leo, Parke, Friberg, Nkufo and Alvaro
3 of those without a year
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
The table
Maybe we have different definitions then. I consider your core players to be the guys who you count on to win every single match. Not necessarily your entire starting lineup and regular bench players. Not role players who are virtuatlly interchangeable.
Managing Editor for BlackAndRedUnited.com. Weekend Writer for SBNation DC.
by Martin Shatzer on Feb 13, 2011 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
I don't have a single role player listed
I have listed only players good enough to be starting on an average or better MLS team
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Our Core
Perhaps this is what we should really be taking away:
We haven’t had, nor will we next year have, a true core of players. If I can be affoarded the liberty to call a “core” 7 players, then if you asked who our core was in ’09 it would be something like Keller, Hurtado, Alonso, Ljunberg, Evans, Jaqua and Montero.
In ’10 it was something like Keller, Parke, Alonso, Sturgis, Zakuani, Nyassi, and Montero.
In ‘11 I’m guessing something like Keller, Hurtado, Alonso, Zakuani, Fernandez, Nkufo, and Montero.
In 12 Keller and Nkufo are likely gone.
In any case, there certainly hasn’t been as consistent a core as Sigi had after 3 years with the LAG and Crew.

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