The Search for a DP: Why Not Japan?
by Codemos on Mar 21, 2011 9:42 PM PDT
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Why has the MLS not penetrated the Japanese market? This is one of the biggest questions that I have had about the league, mostly because we have all seen how Japanese baseball players have affected the MLB. Hoping for a similar impact on the MLS is just silly (although Kosuke Kimura is apparently big in Japan), but it does make one wonder what Japanese footballers could achieve in a market such as Seattle.
So I reached out to J-League follower and budding Sounders fan Ben Maxwell (@benjmaxwell) via twitter asking which Japanese players would be a DP possibility for Seattle, in hopes of shoring up the Rave Green's scoring issues. He gave me the names of a "target man" and a "poacher" that would fit the mold of a DP (emphasis added and explained later) for the Sounders.
The Target Man: Ryoichi Maeda
The 29-year old Maeda stands at 6'0", which may or may not be enough to match up with the center backs of the MLS. However, the target man label relies on more than just size. From watching video on him, he is very skilled with his feet and many of his goals come from tricky misdirections of low crosses. Maeda has played his entire professional career for Júbilo Iwata, where he has scored 101 goals in 232 matches (43.5%).He has also earned 12 caps to the Japanese national team, scoring five times for the Blue Samurai.
The Poacher: Hisato Sato
Sato is the same age as Maeda, but stands at a much shorter 5'7". Despite his small stature, he has a tremendous nose for goal (which some refer to as "poaching"), scoring 101 goals in 200 matches (50.7%) for his current club, Hiroshima. He has also played for Vegalta Sendai in his professional career, netting 29 times in 74 appearances (39.2%). He relies on his speed, agility and positioning to score his goals, which he does at a very impressive rate.
So there you go. Two players that seem like tremendous fits for a goal hungry Sounders squad. But the reason why I emphasized that these players fit the mold of a DP is because that is all they do. It is difficult to call them DP possibilities. After giving me these names, Ben added that Japanese players "want to go to Europe or not [leave] at all." Well why not? Ben explains, "I could be wrong, but I just don't think the Japanese players would see moving to the MLS as a step up in their careers."
This reasoning does make sense. In a lot of ways, the J-League is very similar to MLS and football in Japan is at a very similar level to football in the United States. So if a Japanese player wants to leave, why do it laterally? It is hard to give these players grief over this. After all, former MLS players would rather dwindle in the second division of prestigious European leagues (Edson Buddle, Robbie Findley, Freddy Adu, etc...) than play in their home country.
The thought of a Japanese player coming to the Sounders is nice and one that I personally would like to see. It is not completely out of the question. If a Japanese player has ties to the United States or wants to live here or if Seattle can buck up a satisfying contract it could happen. But for now, a DP from Japan seems unlikely. Rather, Hanauer and Co. will likely continue on with our South American pipeline. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
FanPosts only represent the opinions of the poster, not of Sounder at Heart.
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Word this carefully
What I don’t want to do is sound like I want to capitalize on a tragedy. So let me say it again- I’m not calling on the Sounders to exploit the disaster.
Now that said, the reason J-Leaguer’s might want to consider a lateral move is so that they can play. All games in Japan are canceled through mid April, and I’m pretty confident in saying that it will probably be extended. Foreign born players have been sent home, stadiums are in absolute ruins, and many market bases have significant other problems to deal with before getting the league going again will be a concern. Sendai’s stadium is no more, the Japanese national team is canceling its matches, and the Earthquake and Tsunami warnings haven’t gone away.
It is a sad situation. But it is a reason for good players who might not have previously looked elsewhere to do so. Seattle would be the prime location for a Japanese star in the league.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
Exactly. When you come down to it, players want to play.
If a loan move, or a straight acquisition, allows a talented player to continue to do what they love to do despite an ongoing tragedy, I can see nothing wrong with that.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on Mar 21, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Loan agreements
Trying to poach players would be a very bad idea, but a loan agreement might be a win-win-win for both clubs and a player. Still, until the crisis is officially over, I’m sure most players would want to remain close to friends and family.
by Dizzo on Mar 21, 2011 10:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Good suggestion
I’m very hopeful the Sounders are indeed seriously looking at signing another DP, or just another Forward in general to fill the hole at that position. Japan is a great market to tap into, I see parallels with Ichiro in a move like this.
Except that MLB is the best baseball league in the world
Ichiro left to prove he could do it against the best.
As mentioned in the post – J-Leaguers are likely in the same mold. This means they’d leave only to go to the top European leagues, not MLS.
Is it likely
that a player from Japan would need to be a DP? What are salaries like there? I guess with a transfer fee, maybe DP would be required, but it’s already been stated that J-League to MLS would be a relatively lateral move. Would this be a case of DPing a Jaqua-level player, just because of transfer fees?
Salaries
J league salaries are substantially higher than MLS, even in the second division. MLS is considered a step down from J League generally, i.e. outside the US.
by SamuraiSounder on Mar 21, 2011 10:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
At 29?
Is it wise lock up a foreign DP for a long term rate. They do have nice stats, but unless it is for a short contract, then I would rather see the team staying as is.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"- Qui-Gon Jinn
I so respect your point of view, but...
I am all for Japan and love the J-League, but my humble opinion is that as a league it is a skosh-too-slow and (hate to say) not physical enough to the point where a star from there would not make it in MLS play. Ryoichi Maeda is a top player in their league – but (again) I feel he could be marked effectively and negated as a factor by most MLS defenses. Same holds true for Australia-New Zealand, and all of Asia soccer-wise. Its still a gentlemen’s game there. Love their game – its just not ours. If Maeda had been brought here as an 18 year old and developed for North America, now that’s an entirely different story. We should develop some more talent from Asia instead.
by P. Scott Cummins on Mar 21, 2011 10:28 PM PDT reply actions
Hanauer quote
Somebody asked in a live-chat with Hanauer back in December, “In the past, the ownership has mentioned targeting Asia as a market they’d like to be a part of. Are you looking at bringing in any Asian players in an attempt to tap into that market?”
He replied, “Our league recently retained a consultant based out of Japan. We will definitely be spending some time with him to explore opportunities.”
Japan or China? Interesting that this is the topic.
Not only is this the topic on this blog but also on http://seattle.theoffside.com/
I have a feeling someone has inside info and we could be seeing something happening in the near future.
by Pauly "Pablo" Morris on Mar 22, 2011 12:38 AM PDT reply actions
Whoa, completely coincidental
I swear!
Writer at seattle.theoffside.com
Twitter: twitter.com/dendennny
by dennyoffside on Mar 22, 2011 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW, check out the article
I think every single player I pointed out is under the age of 24, with the exception of Jong Tae Se who is 27 and Zheng Zhi who is 30. There are definitely good youth prospects out there, just have to find them.
Writer at seattle.theoffside.com
Twitter: twitter.com/dendennny
by dennyoffside on Mar 22, 2011 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Culture
The other issue is the cultural. The reason why Japanese baseball players want to play here is because MLB is the best in the world. Like many have said most outside Japan and the US would say both leagues are close to the same as far as overall level. Because of that most player wouldn’t want to deal with all the cultural differences. Having lived in Japan and married to a Japanese woman and growing up in the states and been stationed around the Pacific in the Navy I would think the only place Japanese players might want to play would be Hawaii if they had a team because here they can get many things from Japan because of the high concentration of Japanese. It is to the point where if they are willing to pay more for some things they could virtually never have to speak English here and have many of the comforts of Japan. But with the logistics of having any team here in Hawaii there is almost a 0% chance of there being a team here there will not be many players going from Japan to the US for more than a short term loan.
There are two ways of being happy: We must either diminish our wants or augment our means - either may do - the result is the same and it is for each man to decide for himself and to do that which happens to be easier.
- Benjamin Franklin
I love the idea of bringing in J-League players
but not as a DP solution.
To keep ringing that old bell: The Sounders need to make a splash with their final DP option and invest in a world-class player that can link up with Montero flawlessly, buy into Sigi’s coaching style, and be leader a the field—and hopefully be under 30. A tall order but that’s why they get paid the big bucks.
The J-League opportunity is indeed interesting. It seems like it would take a special kind of player to thrive in the Sounders culture. I’d think there would be some solid fullback options available there. Forwards, perhaps less so.
The kind of player you're advocating the Sounders sign is just not realistic.
Why would a splash-making, world class player with a fantastic attitude that is under the age of 30 come to MLS? The Sounders don’t need to make a splash with their final DP; they need to sign a good player.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 22, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd for truthiness
I don’t care what kind of “splash” they make with a signing. I care if they sign a player that is good at soccer, and fits well with the current team.
I would take a team full of Osvaldo Alonso work-horse types rather than one big-time Euro Superstud.
by jacobcda on Mar 22, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I couldn't agree more with these last 2 statements
I could less about a “splash”…. just unearth a good quality player that justifies the price tag that accompanies a DP. If he’s good and a splash, great. If it’s a lesser known player but he’s an impact player, great as well. Some of the players suggested to replace Nkufo on this site just aren’t likely to happen.
Writer for SB Nation's Manchester United blog, 'The Busby Babe'
http://twitter.com/#!/Tui11BRoy3
"ROOOONEY!.... It defies description. How about spectacular?...How about superb?"
and by "splash"
I do mean goals, goals, goals and/but DP money should bring a some buzz and a level of name recognition with it. The result must be Immediate and significant. Pretty good examples seem to be Hassli, Charlie Davies, and Omar Bravo. Nkufo wasn’t it. Ljungberg almost was.
fair enough if...
those are the sorts of players you meant. I guess I’m not fully aware of the caliber of players you mean.
However, transfer fees are a consideration and hindrance as well. For world-class players in their prime, it’s nearly impossible for MLS teams to not only afford a salary that’s competitive, but also having the financial strength to cover a transfer fee (which I believe is tied into the salary cap… I think?). This would be only feasible if a player is out of contract, but again is he really world-class if a club lets him go without at least receiving some sort of financial compensation in the transfer market?
Writer for SB Nation's Manchester United blog, 'The Busby Babe'
http://twitter.com/#!/Tui11BRoy3
"ROOOONEY!.... It defies description. How about spectacular?...How about superb?"
DP do not count against cap
So, the size of transfer fee has no relationship to salary cap. A team could decide to spend millions on a single player, particularly a rich team
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Mar 22, 2011 9:19 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Hassli has little to no name recognition
He has a worse resume than Nkufo, by quite a bit.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Hassli
needs more than a single good game before he can be declared a complete success.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Mar 22, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
That said
ow many minutes did it take him to find the net? And Blaise? And who had the better supporting cast to boot?
Just trying to stir up trouble…
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
You're nothing but a troll ;)
I recently had a hat trick in my pub league, but I’m by no means any kind of offensive threat for our team (aka, even blind squirrels find nuts once in a while). If the squirrel keeps finding nuts, then I’ll believe it has eyes.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Mar 22, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
A pleasant troll
I swear. And cute. Like with the jewel belly button and Rave green hair.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
In Fact...
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Nkufo
Would did good with 5 goals in the last half of the season. With more rest and knowing the team better I am certain he would have had ~15 goals this season had things worked out.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
That old argument
that no world class players want to come to MLS… I don’t think that’s the barrier that it was in prior years. Money can make a big difference.
Money can certainly make a big difference.
MLS teams don’t have as much of it as teams in top leagues that would be interested in the services of that kind of player.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 22, 2011 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn't seem to stop LA and NYC
from forking out 2 of the highest soccer salaries in the world. You’d think Seattle could muster up the dosh, with their higher ticket sales and strong (so far) brand equity.
Easy for me to speculate about.
Certainly we’re all hoping that the office is able to get it right this time.
Right, but those players are at the very end of their careers.
Seattle doesn’t need to bring in fading European stars as a plea to improve attendance.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 22, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
This
A retiree to drive jersey sales is useless here.
There is one point, and one only. Wins. Specifically in Mexico and in the Playoffs. That’s all Seattle needs.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
all too true about fading stars
but I’m just talking about the payer not the payee.
Seattle has mustered up the cash
Ljungberg was 3rd or 4th highest paid
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
but why not muster up the cash and get messi?
what it would probably only be 200 million for the transfer fee and a measly 100 million dollar over 4 year salary…
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Mar 28, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
the nature of a MLS DP
There have been a few noticeable DP signing flops which have received media attention for obvious reasons. I also think some DPs that are seen as failures or flops aren’t necessarily that… I think context plays a part. But in general, the ability of the MLS to sign players as DPs has been inherently risky. Many players are being brought into the league in the latter half of their careers and some fail to make an impact for reasons that are typically brought up (motivation, age, cultural adjustment, etc). I like that the Sounders have taken a more practical approach. I had no problem with the Ljungberg signing at the time nor do I now. That certainly was a “splash” signing for an expansion club. I think Nkufo actually did contribute quite a bit in our season turnaround last season and for that, I’m grateful. Who knows how Flaco will turn out, but I like this varying approach by the front office to use a DP on a player they perceive to be an up-and-comer. I also applaud their usage of a DP on an established impact player in Montero.
The way the DP is used, and is reasonably able to be used right now has its risks… flops will happen. I do like the attempted practical and different approach the Sounders have taken with their latest 2 DPs. Creative approaches are a must for a league that just can’t compete for a top 100 player in the world who might be 25 years old. Money is an issue, but it isn’t the only one… so is the individual player’s ambition and perception of the MLS.
The league still might be a decade away or so (possibly more) in being able to bring over a top 100 player in the world who is in their prime. A perfect storm of unique circumstances has to happen for an exception to happen. If you perceive Landon Donovan to be that caliber of player, well his is an unique exception. One, he’s American. Two, he seems content living his life here in his homeland despite his numerous attempts to find his niche in Europe.
Writer for SB Nation's Manchester United blog, 'The Busby Babe'
http://twitter.com/#!/Tui11BRoy3
"ROOOONEY!.... It defies description. How about spectacular?...How about superb?"
well said
What do you think are the milestones to hitting that prime Top 100 signing/transfer zone?
wish I knew that answer...
The league just needs to continue to improve and grow it’s fan base…. it’s been doing that. Perhaps the league has been too conservative with its finances; maybe its being too ambitious with the liberalization of the DP rule, I’m not really sure. I just don’t see the possibility of the MLS attracting world-class players in their playing prime on a consistent basis any time soon. But as long as the MLS continues to have a positive trend in growth and perception, maybe we can get there someday. 10 years? a generation? Ever? Too many variables… I’m not sure if anyone can reasonably answer that.
Writer for SB Nation's Manchester United blog, 'The Busby Babe'
http://twitter.com/#!/Tui11BRoy3
"ROOOONEY!.... It defies description. How about spectacular?...How about superb?"
I think the DP rule will ultimately be the hinderance
It percolates the idea that players of the level necessary to earn a DP slot are a step above the league, which in my opinion limits the number of players willing to come here (basically to greedy b*st*rds more interested in $ than testing their limits). I’m all for the liberalisation of the DP rule (no, I’m not arguing for total deregulation), but slowly – for all of the MLSsoccer.com foibles and inane playoff structures, the business side of MLS has been handled quite well, and the DP rule has been a necessary evil to allow continued growth without becoming another NASL.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Mar 22, 2011 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand...
the necessity in the beginning of the DP rule. I don’t think we will see it go away until the league decides it has enough teams and quits expanding.
Then, after a few years of not having expansion drafts, as rosters settle, teams stabilize…the league might consider axing the DP rule.
Although, they could surprise us, the allowance of 3 DP’s was a shocker last year, so maybe in a couple years they will have another rule change?
I don't
think MLS will get rid of the DP rule.
Hmm...
That’s an interesting idea. Do you know if MLS would be considered a step down/lateral move from the A League?
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 22, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
A-league?
I thought he was with Nagoya in the J-league now.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Mar 22, 2011 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
He is, but because that league is in so much flux right now he might be available.
If he’d be making a move to a league like MLS, it seems that the A-League might also be in the discussion as well.
by Aaron Campeau on Mar 22, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I see what you meant
misread you’re intent. At least according FIFA’s rankings, for what they’re worth (not the pixels they’re being displayed with IMO), MLS is slightly better. This jives with my very limited viewing of a-league matches, so more or less a lateral movement. Maybe its homerism, but I think MLS has a little more respect in other leagues however, as you certainly don’t see players moving their to try to restart their career.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Mar 22, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Fifa has rankings of league?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Nope
I thought I had found what I was looking for but I just didnt look close enough; it was just national team rankings. I’ve seen a similar ranking setup for leagues, perhaps it was just a wild post by some half-assed blogger somewhere.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Mar 22, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
A league < MLS
I can not find it but I remember reading an article where the A league commisioner (or equivalent title) was basically upset that his league was paying more for players that performed worse than the MLS. If the guy in charge admits it it must be true.
Also their attendence is averaging less than 10K per game.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Maybe I'm biased, but...
when I have seen a couple A league games on FSC, I came away thinking, “Wow, this is a major step down from MLS.” Stands make Dallas look like Old Trafford, skill seems to be way below… I can’t see an A leaguer jumping in and making a difference.
Looking at the world cup squads, the Socceroos (who didn’t advance past group) had two A league players (one a keeper who I don’t believe played), and the US had four MLS guys, three of whom regularly featured (granted, two were not that great), and all of whom were outfield players. (And the socceroos’ other guys came from roughly similar, if not lower, leagues, as ours did…. so it’s not like they didn’t have many A league guys because everybody else was in the EPL.) This may be an odd comparison, but that’s one of the ways I look at league strength… nobody would expect A league players or MLS players to load up other countries’ squads, but if our national side (which I may be wrong in believing is stronger, but they do seem to be roughly the same level) has more guys from our league than theirs takes from their domestic league, that says something to me.
Again, major bias on my part, but all those things lead me to believe that the A league < MLS conclusion is absolutely correct.
Since we're on the topic of J-league
I see they’re planning on restarting matches 4/23, but I dont see news on what the teams who’s home fields are ruined are doing. Anyone know the plans? These seem like teams which might be looking to loan out players, particularly the higher salaried ones, to try to minimize costs.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
Restart
Or just not yet postponed? New news pop up somewhere?
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh
And Senai is a shattered city, let alone stadium.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Sendai
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep, new news
League announced it today (ignore the date, its just tomorrow there already). I have a friend currently living in Sendai (fortunately he made it through everything unscathed), so well aware of the situation in that area. Hasnt been an announcement regarding what teams like Sendai will be doing, wondering if anyone had heard any rumors to stoke the fire.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
Good for them
Sports can do great things for a city. Or a country.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Mar 22, 2011 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Dp target man from japan
Maeda is not a target man. Would rather see a Sota Hirayama or Mike Havenaar if we are spending DP money to replace NKufo.
by SamuraiSounder on Mar 22, 2011 8:01 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Foreign players in J-League
Surely there might be some young talented South Americans who were going to play in Japan who may be reconsidering that idea. Any chance one of them might appeal to the Sounders?
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