Sounders Have Commissioned Study on Viability of Permanent Grass Pitch
Very interesting article by Joshua Mayers at the Times. Looks like the Sounders will be playing on either grass or a new field turf surface before too long. A grass pitch would be fantastic if they can find a way to drain it adequately.
about 1 year ago
MicahRowe18
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Drainage isn't the only problem
So is natural light
and of course wear (remember fall 2012 there will be 3 teams)
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I keep forgetting about the Huskies
So in a 13 week or so span between mid-August and mid-November 2012 (beginning of Huskies regular season/Seahawks preseason and end of Sounders season) there will be roughly 5-6 Huskies games, 6-7 Seahawks games, and 5-8 Sounders games at Qwest. That’s quite a bit of wear and tear. I am not a field turf hater, I actually enjoy playing on the stuff. I just think it would be neat to see our guys playing on a well-maintained grass surface some day.
by MicahRowe18 on Apr 12, 2011 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a lot of games
It’s nice to see they’re looking at it, but I just think with all the games on that field, it just can’t be maintained well enough. Good field turf > bad grass IMO. I’d rather see that high-quality artificial stuff like they used in spots at the World Cup.
Standard grass turf wouldn't handle the use
I don’t remember any artificial pitches during the World Cup. But one stadium and a bunch of the EPL stadiums have a reinforced grass turf such as this:
http://www.dessosports.com/en/desso-grassmaster/
It is supposed to handle many more hours of use than just standard grass.
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Says in your link...
that some of the World Cup stadiums used this surface.
I am not at all convinced by any of the grass snobs arguments that field turf is so terrible. But, this hybrid surface does look pretty cool.
There were two, )
detailed here (and lots of other places).
Those two were grass
Those two used the reinforced grass that I was talking about. It’s 97% real grass and 3% artificial blades that are injected into the soil. Definitely not an artificial surface such as Quest.
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Could we...
So that means we could do 97% real and 3% artificial here too. Or 90/10, 80/20, whatever. It’s not as if England gets a ton of sun…
It's about more than sun.
It’s about abuse as well.
by Aaron Campeau on Apr 13, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Part of it is sun though
look which directions the roof is in
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Oh, btw.
If cost is an issue, Landon Donovan has said he’s willing to pitch in financially: http://twitter.com/#!/landondonovan/status/47906344287731712
Not sure...
…if the heat lamps would have to be used every day. Can’t imagine that’d be the case. I don’t know though. Suppose that’s why they commissioned a study on the issue.
Direct sunlight only gets onto the field for about 3 hours
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
How much direct sunlight does a grass turf need?
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Kentucky bluegrass and others can grow well in shade...
but warmth is the other major issue. Here is an article from 1999 Seattle Times back when Safeco was being finished. With two and three tier stadiums the challenge of getting sunlight, managing drainage, keeping roots warm is an expensive science to keep these plants (turf) living. Hopefully I linked this right…
The first thing to understand," Wilkinson said, “is that a baseball field is not a natural situation.”
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
take two
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990525&slug=lawn25
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
And another other question...
How does that compare to other stadiums that do have the reinforced grass that I mentioned? Denver and Green Bay are pretty open stadiums that I’m sure get plenty of sunlight, but what about Tottenham’s? Or Arsenal’s?
I’m just asking because I really don’t know.
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Qwest has a lot more stands covered
Invesco and Lambeau Field are more open than Qwest. White Hart Lane and Emirates are definitely MORE open than either Invesco or Lambeau.
Another observation is I can see the area where the Seahawks and opponents set up and stand on the sidelines of the narrower grid iron. The damage to the center of the field appears less than those sidelines.
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
I did say that Invesco and Lambeau were pretty open stadiums, and it’s because they don’t have a roof covering any of the seats. But White Hart Lane and Emirates have roofs that cover more of the seats than Qwest does. How could they possibly be MORE open?
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 14, 2011 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
They use the same surface at Wembley.
Wembley’s grass is awful.
by Aaron Campeau on Apr 13, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
particularly after the NFL game there
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Well sure.
But you can always find solutions; the issue is that at a certain point the solutions become more trouble than they are worth.
by Aaron Campeau on Apr 13, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Rows of rolling heat lamps?
Would something like this work?
http://ookaboo.com/o/pictures/picture/32837/Heat_Lamps_to_aid_grass_growth
sweet AFL reference
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Apr 12, 2011 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
They ought to just demolish KeyArena and put in a SSS. It’d be a sweet spot right in the shade of the space needle
It's just that simple, folks
by Aaron Campeau on Apr 12, 2011 11:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Who cares
Oklahoma city, of course
by Aasenb on Apr 13, 2011 12:36 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I care, do you want to make something of it?
My nieces love the Storm. You can also pay for the hundred million or so to pay for a new SSS stadium, because I am sure you have it lying around.
The field turf at Qwest, of course
They play some NCAA games at football stadiums. Come on, it’d be great!
Hec-Ed
Sidenote – Women’s basketball and college basketball teams play in nicer facilities than the NBA D-League. Happened to watch a D-league playoff game the other day, it looked like a high school gym with like 50 fans inside. Pretty lame.
by chrisperry1983 on Apr 13, 2011 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Not really
This city has about a 14 million dollar shortfall for 2011. The mayor is going to cut the budget, people are going to lose their jobs and services will not be what they were. In light of that, I really don’t want to pay for another stadium especially after we all have to pony up way too much money just to cross the 520 bridge. However it’s a great dream and maybe in the future we can make it work.
by fcjake on Apr 13, 2011 9:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Screw That
I love Qwest as a soccer stadium. And we’re already outgrowing the lower bowl. How many seats do you propose we put in the footprint of the KeyArena? There should be a demolishing, but of the north parking lot to make room for a modern NHL/NBA arena.
Yeah, if the Key's footprint is too small for the NBA, it's WAY too small for MLS.
A redone Memorial Stadium could work, but the whole idea is a pipe dream given the economy.
Should a pipe dream in any economy as far as I'm concerned.
Qwest isn’t perfect but it’s pretty damned good. There’s just absolutely no need for a new stadium in Seattle when we have one that works perfectly well.
by Aaron Campeau on Apr 13, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I agree 100%.
I like watching both football and soccer at Century Link Field. Besides, it is not as if there is a Hundred Million plus sitting around to build a new stadium.
It has also been stated by Dave that all soccer stadium have “other uses” to generate revenue. Is there really enough “other uses” to fill both a football stadium and soccer stadium to make the economically viable?
Actually dual purpose
It’s not really a SSS because it was built for both Soccer and American Football. But I like the fact that the Google Maps view of Quest is when it was lined for the Sounders. :-)
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Then there is NO SSS in the USA
because they are all used with other sports in mind
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Really?
No one wants a stadium to be sitting idle when other events can be held there to generate revenue. But that doesn’t mean that they were not built for a specific purpose. It was my understanding that Quest was built specifically for both sports.
You have certainly done more research on this than I have and I will admit that you are significantly more knowledgeable about it than I am on the subject, so you won’t get much argument from me. I would like to know what you consider a Soccer Specific Stadium though.
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Crew stadium was built knowing tht they would do soccer and high school football
same with PHP. JeldWenn will have college.
I don’t like the phrase SSS.
I prefer Revenue Controlled Stadium. As in that the team in charge controls the revenue from all events, and the stadium was built with soccer in mind from day one
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I know its dual purpose...
but i just bristle when people suggest Seattle should build an SSS, when in fact, we have a stadium built with soccer in mind. I’m with Dave and don’t really care for the term “Soccer Specific Stadium”
There is NOTHING wrong with Qwest as a stadium. Forever there will be people arguing about the surface, but the stadium itself is just fine, and there is no reason to think the Sounders can’t call it home for as long as it is standing.
by jacobcda on Apr 13, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I would agree as well.
I personally really like Quest. And it’s not just from the really comfy seats in my suite, since I have sat in various places in the stadium and I have to say there just isn’t a bad seat in the house there. Access to the stadium has improved and continues to get better.
There really is no need for another stadium that we can’t even afford to build anyway.
by Christopher David Maddux on Apr 13, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
My seat is bad.
but I go down a row and over about 5 and everything is fine.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Call me crazy...
…they’re putting in grass for ManU. I would imagine three months is more than enough time for a group of sports turf folks to figure out at least a temporary drainage solution. Without a nightly freeze in the winter, I would think aside from drainage, this isn’t out of the question in the long term, three teams or not.
removable turf
At some dual use hockey/basketball arenas they leave the ice surface in place and install an insulated basketball floor over the ice surface. I’d love to see something similar at Qwest. Take out the field turf, install world class drainage, irrigation, and nutrition systems for grass and design a synthetic turf field system that can be laid over the grass for Seahawks and Huskies handball games.
I am sure someday in the future that there will be removable turf or grass that meets all requirements
Unfortunately, the day is not today
500 million for a retractable roof
why not a few million for a retractable artifical playing surface? :)
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
During the friendlies, I believe they bring in large panels of grass that the Sounders have installed, much like tiles
If I am not mistaken, the problem right now is that the grass dies and it slips a little within the panel. In the future, I am sure that they will be able to grow grass that doesn’t die and be able to anchor it better with the panel.
This seems like it should work (in my completely layperson opinion)
Football doesn’t require the same quality of surface that soccer does. As long as it’s consistent and will absorb a little bit of impact it seems like it should be fine. We know they can use a “tray” system for natural grass, why can’t they have a natural grass surface as the permanent option and use a tray for an artificial one.
Again, I know nothing about any of this and I’m sure the logistics are not as simple as I’d like.
Whatever happens I’m just happy that there’s finally a serious discussion happening about this.
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