Benny Feilhaber to MLS is Great Next Step - Just a Dozen More Nats Needed

by Dave Clark on Apr 15, 2011 6:00 PM PDT in Sounders: MLS Regular Season

This was Benny Feihaber at the World Cup, and it will be him in MLS. It could be so many more from the USMNT. Bring 'em back home.

With the news that Benny Feilhaber is coming to MLS, likely with Chivas USA, this seems an appropriate time to remind everyone that there are a dozen or more national team selectees in leagues of lower quality than MLS, or playing irregularly. It is time to bring 'em back home.

The names are well-known. Some are making the most of their circumstances (Jozy Altidore - now), but others are struggling and starting to look back to MLS with alert eyes. Whether it is Freddy Adu watching the league with interest, or Altidore stating that he could come back to New York Red Bulls. The league is starting to interest those young men who once left.

For players like Jay DeMerit, the league is also of interest. Brad Guzan or Brad Friedel or Marcus Hahnemann could use the League as a step. These players in their prime, or just out of it, need to play. They need to help train their replacements, and they need to inspire Americans here.

MLS was set-up to be a training ground for the United States National team, and it should return to that. Currently only 54% of the League is American (4.6% Canadian), so bringing back higher-end talent would help.

This may be a familiar refrain, but today Garber and company snagged one. This summer they have 16+ Designated Player spots that can be used. Names made famous in the Gold Cup (here on our shores), or the World Cup would be perfect targets.

Bring 'em back home. Pay them. Play them.

Flex the MLS 3.0 muscle. This is not the league it was 5 years ago, and certainly not what it was 10 years ago.

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Preach Preacher!

by Daniel Guerrero on Apr 15, 2011 6:02 PM PDT reply actions

Ryan Guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqIJSzOf7bM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSTvgFHVytA

He left St. Patrick’s Athletic in January and is looking for a West Coast MLS wide mid gig. Haven’t heard a peep.

by pdublu on Apr 15, 2011 7:06 PM PDT reply actions

Too bad we're stacked in the midfield

Chivas or Vancouver could probably use his services.

by Dizzo on Apr 16, 2011 9:41 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

26 years old, still has a lot of soccer left in him. Hope the MLS serves him well, look forward to seeing him on a more regular basis.

I agree, let’s bring some of these guys back home, we love them here and we will appreciate them here.

@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."

Blueshirt Banter

by Dig Deep on Apr 15, 2011 7:20 PM PDT reply actions

Well, Friedel has pretty much said

when he’s done in Europe, he’s done. And Villa is happy to have him starting, so scratch that one. Guzan going to a club where he’s backing up one of the best keepers we’ve ever had did him no good. But he’s getting good time on loan at Hull.

A DP spot doesn’t mean a salary comparable to what a player can make in Europe, even at a mid-tier league. And while I agree we should have more domestic players in our domestic league, that’s not going to change anytime soon.

One might also note that this isn’t a particularly unique problem to the US. The EPL has only been comprised of 35-38% English players for ‘years’ now.

by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 15, 2011 11:33 PM PDT reply actions

That's only because

there are more roster spots available in the EPL than there are good English players. Every player on the English national team is in the EPL, which is not true of the US.

That’s not to say every nat should be in MLS. Obviously Timmy Howard is beyond that. But a number of players moved on to mid-tier European leagues because the MLS wasn’t good enough, and MLS has gotten significantly better since they made those choices.

Then again there’s always an Edson Buddle, who doesn’t even need a mid-tier league to draw him away.

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Apr 16, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions

The EPL keeps all those players

because it’s the richest and most competitive league in the world. That’s never been the case with Brazil, or Germany, or Holland. The only 3 countries that merit consideration in the footballing world that keep the overwhelming majority of their players home are, England, Spain, and Italy. And even Italy is having a harder time doing that now, with the drop in quality of Serie A.

MLS for most of its history has, IMHO committed the opposite error, not letting its elite players test the waters and grow (see Taylor Twellmen for a prime example). There needs to be balance. But really this number is more an indictment of the quality of NCAA soccer than the ability of MLS to keep its national team players at home. Especially since keeping them home when they could play abroad dampens their development as internationals.

by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 16, 2011 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions

Germany keeps almost all of its players

Your second paragraph is written from a typical euro-fan angle.

The idea that players get better by not making the 18 in Europe when they’d be starters here is laughable. The idea that NCAA soccer is harming soccer players is provably wrong.

Earlier you stated that a DP contract wouldn’t mean as much money as a contract in Europe. Considering there is no limit to a DP contract this is false as well. Also, Beckham, Henry, and Marquez all made the same amount of money here as they do there.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm not a "euro-fan"

So please stop with the ad hominem.

It’s not “provably wrong” NCAA soccer is worse than playing professionally. The simply fact is, overseas, 18-22 is when players start breaking into the 1st team in most other leagues. You can’t seriously be trying to tell me that the NCAA is better than playing as a dedicated professional. Flat out, the NCAA with its hideous substitution rules, limited practice times, and roughhouse style are POOR preparation for the professional sport.

And there are limits to DP contracts, they just don’t count against the salary cap. Every team still has a budget. And Beckham did not make the ‘same amount’ with the Galaxy he did with Real Madrid. There’s no one in MLS that can make the 100,000 per week money that elite players in Europe make. DP contract or not, they still have a budget. The reason why players like Cooper and Buddle ‘went’ overseas is they were getting more money, even at a lower division.

by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 18, 2011 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions

To be clear

I’m not anti-MLS. And I’m for developing the domestic game. But I reject the idea that we have to ‘bring home the National Team’ to make MLS viable. I think nothing displayed the growth of MLS better than Donovan’s successful Everton spell as opposed to his 2 Bundesliga disasters.

by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 18, 2011 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Your eyes are clearly on Europe first

Noted here

It’s not "provably wrong" NCAA soccer is worse than playing professionally. The simply fact is, overseas, 18-22 is when players start breaking into the 1st team in most other leagues. You can’t seriously be trying to tell me that the NCAA is better than playing as a dedicated professional. Flat out, the NCAA with its hideous substitution rules, limited practice times, and roughhouse style are POOR preparation for the professional sport.

As many major professional atheletes throughout the world have developed through NCAA as have become regulars on the first team with significant teams in the world. There is reason that US soccer isn’t as good as it could be has nothing to do with the NCAA. Those unique rules for college athletes aren’t harming athletes in dozens of othe sports. So things certainly start before that, not during.
And here

And there are limits to DP contracts, they just don’t count against the salary cap. Every team still has a budget. And Beckham did not make the ‘same amount’ with the Galaxy he did with Real Madrid.

There aren’t limits to the contracted amount. A team can spend what it wants, and through creative structuring can offer more. Again, Beckham got a larger offer from MLS/LAG than he did from any Euro team.

There’s no one in MLS that can make the 100,000 per week money that elite players in Europe make

Except that there are at least 3 players making exactly that – Beckham, Henry and Donovan.

Below you bring up Donovan to Everton as a supposed refutation for MLS and USSF getting players out of the non-Big 4 leagues. You do realize that Everton plays in the EPL a Big 4 League?

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 19, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Where did you get this?

Below you bring up Donovan to Everton as a supposed refutation for MLS and USSF getting players out of the non-Big 4 leagues. You do realize that Everton plays in the EPL a Big 4 League?

Or did you just make up what you want? First you accuse me (utterly falsely) of being obsessed with Europe, when I’ve supported MLS ever since it STARTED, and was a fan of the league and DC United (when they were fumbling in last place before their late season charge the opening season) before the Sounders were even dreamed of.

Then you say I’m so dense I don’t know where Everton plays. I think the real point is, you want to ad hominem those who disagree with you, and can’t tolerate an honest discussion.

Thank you for the clarification.

by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 19, 2011 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions

For someone who claims to follow MLS you miss some obvious facts

Not disputable items, but things that are clear facts.

There is not a limit for DP signing value. At least four players are making more in MLS as DPs than they would in Europe (I forgot Marquez). You denied this. The only way you could deny this is by not actually paying attention to the league.

You offered Donovan to Everton as a refutation of a post where I frown on the concept of USMNT players going to minor teams. This is a clear red herring. I am clearly NOT calling for players that get playing time in the Big 4 to stay. I am clearly calling for players who ride the pine in Turkey 2, or Norway, or Bundes 2, etc to come to MLS. You created the herring and painted it red.

You are bearing the traits of someone who looks to europe first and the us second for soccer. This is not an attack, but a recognition of a certain, large and quite reasonable view of the American soccer fan that wants to support the best rather than the local. Common traits are to not know the roster rules of MLS, to think that the NCAA somehow prevents world class athletes from developing, and to think that being on a roster anywhere in Europe is better than being a starter in MLS. You have put forward all of those views.
I called that a euro-fan, as a recognition of that.
I did not call it a euro-snob, which is a prejoritive for the same behavior.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 20, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Here's a fuller list of the type of guys about which I'm talking about bringing back

Yelldell
Lichaj
Chandler
Edu
Kljestan
Diskeruud
Buddle
Whitbread
Agbossoumonde
Goodson
Parkhurst
Bedoya
Beasley
Findley
Original Eddie Johnson

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 9:21 AM PDT reply actions

Buddle playing in Bundesliga 2 seems like a bit of a step-down for him in terms of exposure and playing on a big(ger) stage.

Would really enjoy Lichaj coming back home, he was very intriguing playing for the UMNT. Really I’d like to see any (or all) of these guys come back home to play, it certainly would add some talent to the league. The other thing it would bring is character and marketability, I don’t know if it is an issue with all teams around the MLS but I get the feeling that the lack of a face for a franchise on many clubs is an issue. It is hard to cheer for a team that has very little history, having some more talented players that have dressed on the UMNT or are good candidates to do so might make a big difference.

@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."

Blueshirt Banter

by Dig Deep on Apr 16, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions

Good list

But I disagree on Edu. SPL is certainly of dubious quality after the obvious two teams, but playing for Rangers means playing in the CL and also gives you mucho exposure to the EPL.

by deeplennon on Apr 16, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Fair point. If he was playing for a club other than the Rangers (or Celtic) he would definitely be one of the guys I would much rather have here. Especially because he is one of the more talented players on that list.

@DigDeepNYR
"I like a man who grins when he fights." -Sir Winston Churchill
"It's just pain." -Brandon Prust | "In Prust we Trust."

Blueshirt Banter

by Dig Deep on Apr 16, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions

At least he's a regular this year

Last year he was not. He may have turned the corner. I may have to remove him from my dreams of the American Soccer anti-diaspora.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions

Indeed

important is the fact that he is playing.

Not to mention his transfer fee at 24 with two years left on his contract is likely to be around $5 mil.

by deeplennon on Apr 16, 2011 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Why would Lichaj come back?

He’s a prospect, he’s been getting steady time with Villa’s reserves all year and is a starter at Leeds. It wouldn’t make any sense for his career.

by Aaron Campeau on Apr 16, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Because I want him!

I’m unconvinced that the English Championship is better than MLS

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions

It's probably not a whole lot better, but it's a loan deal.

He’ll be back in the Premier League next season, wouldn’t be surprised to see him loaned or sold to a lower table team. Germany also seems a possibility.

by Aaron Campeau on Apr 16, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd take him on loan

Charlie Davies style, or just buy him.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

A quick read of the book...

…Soccernomics would shed some light on a couple of items. For instance, England has suffered internationally due to their insistence on having a high percentage of English footballers in their top-flight football.

Good read, anyway.

by bmvaughn on Apr 16, 2011 10:33 AM PDT reply actions

I don't think the case here is at all comparable

Not playing in Norway can in no way be better than PLAYING in MLS.

About 90% of Japan’s national team play at home. About 80% of Mexico. Turkey is basically at aroun 75%. South Korea, same.

The USA can’t base what it is off of the top 10 nations in the world.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, it's not even close to the same

England, geographically and population-wise, is very small compared to the US. And they have a lot more non-EPL professional opportunities for English players to prove themselves.

I’m usually not in favor of arguments insisting a place is unique, but I just don’t see anywhere else that is like the US. It’s a large country in geography and population, which makes it difficult to find the best talent in the country. Even if the “right” percentage of English footballers in their domestic top tier is something like 10% of a 20-team league (which seems low to me), then the “right” percentage of American soccer players in a 20-team MLS should eventually be something like 60% of a 20-team league, since the US has a population 6 times that of England.

Think about how hard baseball works at getting the top talent to MLB. First, there is an extensive local high school system, and summer leagues, which are scouted by major league teams, colleges, and junior colleges. Some of those high school players are drafted, some go to college or junior college. The drafted players then go through an extensive minor league system. Then major league teams scout colleges and junior colleges, drafting some of those players, and putting them into the extensive minor league system. Even then, there are domestic players like Mike Piazza, who only got drafted in the 62nd round of the draft because he was related to someone from the Dodgers organization. He turned out to be one of the best-hitting catchers in baseball’s history. Even now, MLB isn’t entirely satisfied that they are finding all the best talent in the country and are setting up urban academies to develop more talent from communities that otherwise might be overlooked.

I don’t think that kind of extensive scouting system is going to develop unless there is pressure on MLS teams to develop domestic players for their rosters.

by ubelmann on Apr 16, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Soccernomics

I don’t know that the book really was particularly effective in showing that point, although they made it seem that way. Even if you don’t believe the EPL has the most talent of any league, everyone agrees it’s in the top 2 or 3.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter

by Jeremiah Oshan on Apr 16, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Here's the Leagues that I clearly accept as being better than MLS at this time

and wouldn’t mind USMNT players being in on ANY quality team

EPL
Bundesliga
La Liga
Serie A
Fr Lg 1
Russia
Turkey

In this next group I’d be cool if a USMNT is playing for one of the top quintile of teams in the league

~~Mexico~~
~~Japan~~
Netherlands
Greece
Ukraine
Portugal
~~Iran~~
~~Eng Champ~~
~~Honduras~~
~~Ecuador~~
Norway
~~Australia~~
Israel
~~Egypt~~
Belgium

I struck through a few of those, as I don’t think second division nor leagues outside of UEFA will help development anymore than playing here. Oh, and I want MLS to catch Mexico.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 10:56 AM PDT reply actions

Good list

I would just add a caveat to the list that if a player can start for any team that consistently plays UEFA Champions League or Europa League, they are probably in a good spot. Even if many of their league games aren’t as competitive, those competitions give them an opportunity to move to a bigger club.

by ubelmann on Apr 16, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Playing a great opponent a few times a year

Is better than playing regular competitive matches for the entire year?

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Apr 16, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Don't disregard who you play with.

In addition to against.

Though I’m of the mind that the MLS is somewhere between League 1 and the Championship. With a team like RLS ‘11 vintage likely able to compete for a Championship playoff spot. Based on your previous comments I’m pretty sure you have a higher opinion of the MLS.

Salary wise though, my estimation is probably a stretch in favor of the MLS.

by deeplennon on Apr 16, 2011 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions

One thing I think Adu's comment highlights...

…is that the more popular MLS is, the more domestic players are going to want to play in it. The opportunity to play for the team you grew up supporting has its own allure that playing for a miscellaneous team in Europe (even if it’s a good team) won’t have.

by ubelmann on Apr 16, 2011 11:36 AM PDT reply actions