Thoughts On Depth Of Seattle Sounders
by Dave Clark on May 16, 2011 11:40 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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Remember back in the pre-season when we were praising Adrian Hanauer, Sigi Schmid and Chris Henderson for the depth that they had assembled on the roster? When we talked about a team that had nearly 20 players who could start at the MLS level? Those seem like long lost days now, but this is not because the depth vanished, well except for that Blaise Nkufo guy. That's one down.
The depth we talked about has been destroyed by injuries and injury recoveries that diminish overall fitness. Those injuries and lack of fitness have effected tactics, substitutions, formations and even Reserve Team roster availability. Yesterday there were four guest players on the Reserves roster because Seattle couldn't field a full roster from its own players.
Steve Zakuani's double break of the lower leg will never be forgotten. O'Brian White's significant issue with a blood clot will be addressed for an unknown time with blood thinners and so can not play competitive sports until he is off those drugs. That's two more.
Two players are available to play 90, but they certainly aren't healthy. Both are playing with a cast or brace - Fredy Montero and Taylor Graham. On the opposite end are players that recovered from health issues but are not yet fully fit in Nate Jaqua, Mike Fucito and Pat Noonan. That's five more.
Then there is the situation of the somewhat injured. Those guys that have had relatively minor issues recently with hamstrings, groins, ankles, and quads. This set of injuries has occurred to players who are all attack minded midfielders as Brad Evans, Mauro Rosales and Erik Friberg are out for a short, but indeterminate time. Another three.
Seattle Sounders FC has been decimated by injuries, but this does not mean they are not a deep team. It is precisely because of their depth that they have been able to play some decent soccer and get a few results. The worst part of it though is that Seattle no longer has the pieces to trade for immediate help. Their options are left to players within the USSF system's lower levels, and it remains doubtful that one or two players from the NASL or USL Pro are going to make a difference coming into MLS.
Long term the ability to add a significant player (DP or max contract), as well as a secondary addition, during the Summer Transfer Window will help, but that time is 60 days out. Probably the best news is that the shorter term injuries should be resolved by the time the US Open Cup and CONCACAF Champions League start play. But these next dozen or so MLS matches will be a strain on the roster, but the depth is precisely why the Sounders will be in position to make a late season run and deep pushes in the non-league competitions.
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It is really crazy to know that at this point in time
we have a little over 1/3 of our roster unavailable due to injuries.
a few weeks ago I wrote...
that I thought an attacking 4 of Zakuani, Montero, Rosales, and either OBW of Jaqua would put fear into many MLS defenses. I still feel that way…
losing OBW has hurt Jaqua, which is a little abstract, but with both of them available we had two different types of players to use at that position. Even though they were rarely on the pitch together, they still “complimented” each other in a way, and I feel that by trading off and rotating the two both would be fresh, hungry, and strong throughout the season, especially given Jaqua’s injury concerns.
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 16, 2011 12:25 PM PDT reply actions
I think it still does
only now its just their nightmares, not actual fear.
Jaqua and OBW were a fantastic pair to have, hopefully OBW can come back very quickly. Each provides a different skill-set, in turn allowing not just rotation but tactically adjusting the starting line-up to lean it in one direction or the other (speed threat v flick-ons and control).
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on May 16, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Its absolutely mind-boggling to me
that we’re able to still field a truly competitive team. I don’t see a single team (outside maybe RSL) who would have been able to do this. We are still able to walk in to games with the expectation of a win, and play true attacking football.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
This really puts Saturday in perspective (both the result and the play itself).
I can’t wait for Rosales to be back and Montero to be 100% though.
by Philip Mueller on May 16, 2011 12:38 PM PDT reply actions
Mauro Rosales
When is this guy set to come back? He changes everything when he is in the game. We need this guy on the field. Anyone know when he’s coming back?
by Pauly "Pablo" Morris on May 16, 2011 12:39 PM PDT reply actions
With his issue being day-to-day
No one knows, nor can they. It is minor but lagging.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Fucito
What’s his problem? Sorry, forgot.
by Pauly "Pablo" Morris on May 16, 2011 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Not injured
Just hasn’t gone 90 yet.
Probably could at Forward, certainly couldn’t at Left Wing (he’s second best role)
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Does Sigi have an issue...
with Fucito? Fucito is a stud! Fast with awesome ball handling skills! Why hold this guy back?
by Pauly "Pablo" Morris on May 16, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's less that Sigi has an issue
and more that the fans embellish his skill set. With the amount of people and their fervor in calling for Fucito to get more minutes you’d think the guy was the second coming of Messi.
by TheTank123 on May 16, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just a reminder
Harvard’s best player when Fucito was there was Andre Akpan and he’s done nothing so far…
Tom Brady wasn't Michigan's best player at the time either
I don’t think success in college can be drawn conclusively across to the pros.
Matt Cassell backed up Matt Leinart at USC, and we all know who is better now….
by ABTsportsline on May 20, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
for me fucito is better then levesque and neagle
i want to hear an argument from sigi as to why he isnt playing fucito over them..
I agree people embellish his skill set, i was not set on protecting him last year. but with our options right now he should be playing
My theory: Sigi plays Fucito as a Withdrawn Forward
And he only gets some action when Montero isn’t. There’s been three games when Levesque or Neagle played while Fucito was also on the bench.
@DC: Jaqua (Levesque 64), Montero played full 90
@CLB: Levesque started and played full 90, Friberg (Jaqua 66), Montero (Fucito 84), Fernandez (Neagle 89)
vPOR: Evans (Levesque 42), Jaqua (Neagle 79), Montero played full 90
Based on this small sampling of substitution patterns, I don’t think Fucito plays the role that Evans or Jaqua plays.
Truth
As he gets more fit there are chances at LW/RW but not yet. He’s clearly the #2 at the WF.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Unfortunately with Rosales
He tried to come back too early once and aggravated his injury. I am guessing they will not make the same mistake twice. Even when he does feel better, they will be extra careful with him.
Team Looks Old And Slow
Our situation is worse than it looks. Because we’ve played more games than most other teams, our point total looks mediocre — but it’s worse than mediocre. Ranked by points per game we’re 12th — four spots out of the playoff zone. And the problem is clearly SCORING GOALS.
Montero is the kind of striker who needs a partner. If that partner is Jacqua, we have a problem. I don’t know what the deal with him is, but he looks awkward, confused, out of position, and frankly unskilled. He can’t pass or receive the ball. Actually, no one on the team can pass the ball right now — the Portland game was a travesty of mishit long balls to nowhere, almost always reaching a red shirt instead of a green.
Our injury problems are causing us to put guys on the field who are simply not up to this level. Carrasco, Neagle, and Jacqua looked awful the other night. And even our “good” players are getting beat for pace right and left. How many times did Riley get juked down by the corner?
But even before the injuries hit we weren’t scoring goals. Opposing teams know now that if they mark us close, we have no ideas, no pace, and no passing ability to get out of trouble.
Seattle outpassed Portland by 11%
Completely 74% to their 63%
His name is Nate Jaqua by the way, and if he isn’t MLS quality, you just haven’t watched enough MLS. He has a long history of success in the league, and is a solid complimentary player. His positional sense is a strength, he’s well known for effective passing and his footwork regularly complimented.
As for the team being slow, yes it is. The fastest players on the team are injured, whether measured in raw speed, or with the ball at their feet.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I've been defending Jaqua for a while all across the interwebs
but i’m not going to lie, he has been very disappointing to me. He really needs to score. There were a couple of plays against Portland where his first touch completely blew an easy chance to score. I have a feeling his drought is effecting him.
I think Jaqua's been rushed back to some extent
Nothing’s certain, but I’d bet that if OBW hadn’t had a blood clot, Jaqua would have been a sub in all of his appearances so far this season except the Columbus game, where he probably would have started since it was a quick turnaround. In minutes, he’s only played the equivalent of 3-4 games so far this season. More than anything, I think Jaqua hasn’t had a lot of game time since his injury and might still be shaking off the rust. Or maybe that’s just what I hope.
Sorry for Spelling His Name Wrong
Jaqua USED to be a solid player. He’s pushing 30 now, and has been niggled by injury for two years. I don’t see players like that coming back and dominating again. He hasn’t scored a goal in a long time. What we could use is a version of Jaqua who is five years younger.
I’m a little suspicious of passing-accuracy statistics, because they don’t distinguish between pointless tossing it around passes in the back and penetrating passes. We’ve done lots of the former and very few of the latter in recent games. 74% is three 10-yard back passes in the defensive half and one way-off-target bomb into an unpopulated area of the final third, which sounds about right.
I also doubt that passing-accuracy stats count times our guy was just flat-out stripped of the ball.
The fact remains that Seattle has played two good games and a ton of mediocre ones. We were mediocre or worse when Zakuani and Evans were fit. I think we had a problem even before the worst of the injury wave.
The problem is our forwards are too selfless
Both Jaqua and Montero are trying to look to hold-up the ball or pass it to another streaking player. When BOTH of your forwards do this, it’s a problem. We don’t have Zakuani or Rosales on the wings to pick up play and we don’t have Evans making those runs up the middle right now.
Ergo, no scoring.
I hope Montero and Jaqua start taking more shots, although I think a part of all this problem is the midfield. Carrasco and Alonso are both very good, but too similar in skill sets. When your midfield is Alonso & Carrasco, its harder to push the ball forward and so the Forwards hang back a bit more. I think this has stymied the attack somewhat.
by ABTsportsline on May 20, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Also one more point of clarification...
There are 10 playoff spots this year, not eight. So we’re two spots out of the playoffs in the theoretical PPG standings (of which we’d be just fine with a single win).
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 16, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
General question regarding injury information
This may be a stupid question but I’ve been confused by the lack of information coming from the Sounders (and the MLS in general) regarding injured players. In other pro sports leagues (and even in college), the information about injuries is typically very detailed and includes a best guess for when the player will return. If a running back in the NFL gets a hamstring injury, the report will indicate that it’s a grade 2 strain and the player will return in 4 to 6 weeks. If a basketball player turns his ankle, we’ll hear that it’s severe high ankle sprain and he could be out 8 weeks. Along the way, these reports are constantly updated and a more accurate timeline for return develops. We’re also told how the player’s recovery is progressing and what kinds of activities he is doing to get healthy. Frankly, it’s probably overkill, but it’s sort of what I’ve come to expect.
In contrast, soccer injuries are a comparatively a mystery. Of course, we are told in general terms what the situation is but we’re rarely informed with the kind of detail we see in other sports. For example, we know O’Brian White had a blod clot in his lower leg and we know he was just released from the hospital last week after undergoing surgery. I just now read in this thread that he’s still on blood thinning medication and can’t return until he’s off of it. Beyond that, zilch. No explanation for the clot, no timeline for return. I suppose that’s an extreme example but even with a guy like Frieberg who "had a bit of an ankle" (in Sigi parlance), we don’t know what that means. I remember a few weeks ago when Sigi said Evans "caught a bit of a quad." What the hell does that even mean?
I’ve asked Joshua Mayers via Twitter a few times for more detailed injury information but he doesn’t seem to know. Is this typical in soccer in order to not let the opponent game plan too much or is this more a result of there being less media scrutiny than in other sports?
MLS releases a twice weekly injurty reports
and follows the same standards as the NFL in grading the probability of a player being available.
As for OBW, blood thinners were mentioned from the beginning, Sigi in fact mentioned it.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Fair enough.
It’s more the detail regarding the injuries themselves that is often missing and is what I’m accustomed to seeing in other sports. Jeremiah’s point about the betting implications makes sense to me.
Injury reports
Are really something leagues do for the benefit of Vegas oddsmakers. So, there is a lot more action on NFL and NBA games, so the reports tend to be more detailed. As for the injuries on the Sounders, here’s what we know:
OBW: Out indefinitely
Zakuani: Out indefinitely
Friberg: Sprained ankle, could be back this week
Rosales: Strained hamstring? day-to-day
Evans: Strained Groin, day-to-day
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 16, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
With these injuries...
who do you think our line up will be knowing that Sporting Kansas City has only 4 points? Will we rest most starters for the next week FC Dallas?
by Pauly "Pablo" Morris on May 16, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I think SKC's point total is really misleading
For one, they’ve played all their games away from home so far. In those games, they’ve got 1 win and 1 draw. In the other 5 games, they have 3 games they’ve lost by just 1 goal and played a portion of the game a man down, and other two losses were against NYRB and LAG.
I think they’ve been unlucky to see 3 red cards in 7 games, and it’s hard to play on the road in MLS. I don’t think the Sounders should take them lightly based on their 4-point start.
by ubelmann on May 16, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They've Also....
…played fewer games than anyone else (except RSL). And as you point out, all road games. While their record is terrible, they have bizarrely scored more goals per game than any other team in the league — and allowed FAR more! The question for our game is, what happens when a stoppable force meets a moveable object?
The average team takes around 1 PPG on the road in MLS
SKC’s sitting at around 0.57 PPG- 57% of the points they’d be expected to claim. If they’d had 4 home games so far (knowing an average team takes 1.5 PPG at home and assuming SKC would take 57% of that figure), they’d be only at 0.73 PPG, or just barely ahead of the Whitecaps at 17th best in the league.
They’re not as terrible as their record says, but they’re still probably tier 4.
The season is so young that using PPG is also misleading
If you turn one SKC loss into a win, they go from 4 points to 7 points and are essentially a league average team on the road. They’re one result away from league average. I’m not saying they’re great, but I am saying that we don’t really know how good they are and we’re in no position to take them lightly and start a bunch of reserves. Also, it would be silly to start reserves against SKC to have more starters against Dallas, since that lines up the reserves to be playing in the game at Salt Lake.
A win is a win is a win...
…whether against the ex-Wizards or FCD.
I’d expect us to go all out against SKC. This is the sort of game where we can’t afford to pick up less than the full three points — a draw or a loss to them would be devastating, even if we pick up a win against Dallas next. However, I would expect that, if we get a big lead against them, Sigi will substitute for some of our key players early.
Sigi seems to operate on the Bill Belichick theory of injury reporting
With so many possible lineup permutations, there is some advantage to being opaque with that information.
by lemonverbena on May 16, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I think to large degree they legimately don't know
Sports medicine’s not an exacting science. But I suspect that you are right and there is some gamesmanship involved as well.
Michael Seamon's status?
Who has it? Isn’t he also recovering from injury? I seem to just see his tweets about being out shopping.
he has played 90 minutes in the past 2 reserve games
so i think his injury has healed
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's healthy...
He’s been playing as the more CDM in reserves, which leads me to believe he’s just behind Carrasco on the depth chart.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 16, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Last year i seem to remember him filling in as the Box-to-Box role and playing moderately well
He seemed to like coming forward more then Carrasco. They might make a good pairing for Open Cup/CCL in the Alonso/Evans type pairing.
I love fredy montero
im glad that he is getting better, he should date me and he is hot :) <3
by Jillian Kreider on May 24, 2011 3:34 PM PDT reply actions
fredy i think is the best player on the sounders team
by Jillian Kreider on May 24, 2011 3:34 PM PDT reply actions
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