Seattle Sounders Vs. FC Dallas: Worst Loss Of The Year? Sure Feels That Way
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 12:10 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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Honestly not sure what to say about this one. I guess you need to give Sigi Schmid some credit for trying a pretty drastic lineup change. Mike Fucito got the start alongside Fredy Montero at forward, Zach Scott was given a rare opportunity at right back and the midfield featured both Mauro Rosales and Erik Friberg.
Most of those changes yielded positive results, at least in the sense that the Sounders created plenty of opportunities, dominated possession and probably deserved a better result than a 1-0 loss to FC Dallas. But that's what they got, and, frankly, it feels pretty awful.
I didn't attend the post-game press conference, but it seems pretty clear that the Sounders were pretty frustrated themselves, which maybe is a good thing. Schmid seemed to be particularly frustrated with Montero, who has just two goals through 11 matches, and seems to have turned more into a creator than the scorer this team really needs him to be.
"He needs to score. End of story. He needs to score," Schmid said of Montero. "That's what he's paid to do. He needs to score. He's a good enough player, and he knows that. He can play-make, he can set things up, (Mauro) Rosales needs to score the goal off Fredy's pass. That was a great pass. That's one that's got to be in the back of the net. How many clean chances did they have? Not many and they scored. It's the difference in the game. That's what you get paid to do. It's a difficult task, but it's the task at hand."
Outside of Rosales' 43rd minute chance, which was probably the cleanest look the Sounders got all night, there were several other good chances. Friberg had a shot that was cleared off the line by Zach Loyd and Fucito had one shot tipped over the crossbar by FCD goalkeeper Kevin Hartman and put another shot off the post. Fucito also seemed to draw a penalty that went uncalled.
Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter that the Sounders outshot the Toros 19-7. It doesn't matter that they possessed the ball 66 percent of the time or that completed more than twice as many passes. All that really matters is Brek Shea managed to finish FC Dallas' one good chance, and the Sounders couldn't finish any.
There might be reinforcements coming at some point, but that's still months away. The Sounders are going to need to turn this around with the players they have here. Let's hope they can.
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I'm wondering why Fucito hasn't started a match until tonight
yeah, I know about injury and fitness concerns, but based upon what i saw i would find a way to get him into the lineuo more often
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 26, 2011 12:27 AM PDT reply actions
My inclination is to think that...
…if we’d seen Fucito before tonight, he wouldn’t have been as impressive. I don’t think we should so easily cast aside injury and fitness concerns. I’m pretty stoked that we took it slow with Fucito and since we took it slow, I have some optimism that he’ll stay healthy for the rest of the season.
Interesting player, but . . .
I like Fucito a lot. He, Rosales, Alonso, and Flaco were the only guys out there who looked like they wanted to win the game.
The problem with Fucito is that he just doesn’t have the size to play effectively in the MLS. Guys of his stature can get away with it if they are extraordinarily talented like Messi, but otherwise they are just going to get swallowed up. Fucito and Montero looked like the JV team playing the Varsity tonight.
As I said, I like Fucito’s. Great energy, great drive, and some good skills. He’s one of the better options that Sigi has to work with. But that’s not saying much.
I haven't seen enough of Fucito to dismiss his skills
You don’t need to be Messi to be short and succeed in MLS. He’s got speed and he has a lot better tactical sense than, say, Sanna Nyassi. I don’t envision him making the MLS Best XI, but I’m excited that he’s healthy again because I think he can help the team out a lot, especially when USOC and CCL games start coming at us.
You and I were clearly watching a different game. Fucito does an amazing job with his height. Christ, he almost scored on a header off a corner kick. I’m not sure what more you expect from him? He may not be able to out jump a George John, but he can and did outbody him on a number of occasions and he still did win a few flick on headers. I disagree with your assessment entirely. I think that, especially when paired with someone tall who can pass it to him when he makes runs, he can be extremely effective in MLS.
Boo! Tomorrow AM. I want all things now!
by Perrinbar on May 26, 2011 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
From what I saw
which was the last 40 minutes or so. Fucito was the only one really getting any shots that were goal dangerous. He forced Hartman into at least 3 very good saves while I was watching. I don’t think I saw anything from anyone else that looked even close to scoring aside from what Fucito did.
Rosales corners
Were horrible. after 3 bad attempts thankfully he gave up (or was told to not take em anymore!)
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
The whole team did
The only reason we got as many chances as we did in the 2nd half is because Dallas hunkered back and dared us to try and score, knowing full well we couldn’t.
by B-Lot tailgater on May 26, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Josh Wolff is a good comparison
You don’t have to be tall to have a successful career in MLS. Josh Wolff is a good example of a short striker having a good career in MLS. They have similar builds, skill-sets and play the same position. The key is to be tough enough to deal with some of the abuse that the CBs in the league deal out. Judging from the picture above, and last night’s game, that shouldn’t be a problem for Fucito.
He's listed at 5'8" 165lbs
That seems pretty close to average. There’s about 200 active players who are that height or smaller (I don’t know how many are starters, though).
"He, Rosales, Alonso, and Flaco were the only guys out there who looked like they wanted to win the game."
Can we please stop doing this?
Please?
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
What's the problem?
Are you insinuating that all 11 players on the field actually wanted to win? You clearly aren’t from America, where only a small fraction of players (who all happen to have played well in the preceding game) “want to win”.
by TheTank123 on May 26, 2011 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
That sucked. Like LA and Houston, but worse. Brek is a great player and a douche. The #HarvardHero is awesome. Fredy needs to do better, and Ozzy is amazing. IMO Alonso is among the best CDMs in the Americas.
But mostly- that sucked.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
Who is feeding Fredy?
Fredy had that good pass in to Rosales, who should turn that into a goal more often than not. But where was Rosales to send Fredy a pass like that?
Right now it seems as though no one is drawing defenders away from Fredy and no one is getting him service in dangerous spots on the field. I think Fredy’s capable of scoring nonetheless, but whether it’s the system, the ever-changing lineup, or whatever, he’s not getting a lot of help these days. Every time I see him fending off a centerback to win a header, I get flashbacks from the beginning of last season when he was stuck up top and wasn’t all that effective.
One take-away that I get from this game is that the Sounders (maybe more than anything?) could really use a better player to take their free kicks for them. At this point, who hasn’t taken a free kick? How many different guys did we use just tonight for corners and free kicks? The service into the box seemed terrible for the most part.
It’s a tall order, but I think if I could have anyone for our third DP, it would be a better Brad Evans. I don’t think Evans is bad. I think he would have helped a lot tonight, in fact, but I think that’s a position which can have so much influence on the game. Get someone to do the Evans stuff, with a little bit more ability to make clever passes into the attack and who can consistently put dangerous free kicks into the box. Maybe that’s too much to ask on our budget, but if we had any ability to score on set pieces, I think the game would open up a lot for us. Defenses would have to be more mindful of physical play and that would help create some space. Plus, we’d conceivably punish teams more often on corner kicks, something which we seem to get a lot of when we have possession. This is probably largely what Ljungberg was supposed to bring to the table, but I’d guess there’s someone out there with similar skills who’d be a better fit.
Fredy would need to run off the ball to get a feed.
You will always look bad if they only move you have to get open is drifting back 30 yards from goal. The walking back from an offsides position is also not the greatest offensive move in history. Fredy just doesn’t put in the work off the ball he needs to be fed the ball in a dangerous position.
by blakec on May 26, 2011 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for saying
what needs to be said. He lacks the speed to gain separation in this league. He does have the skill, but players have been playing slightly off Montero (when he turns), waiting for that first touch, then they pounce and take the ball. He doesn’t present well off the ball, but my wife and I have started a count on Montero. In the first half, of his first eight touches (all of which were crisp passes to his feet and perfectly weighted), he turned the ball over 6 times, 5 times with no pressure, just simply either had a bad touch or made a poor pass and, finally, what my friends and I have come to call the Montero three touches and lose it mode (twice in the first half). Montero has become a playmaker, I believe, because he simply doesn’t believe he can create enough space to get his shot off (three shots blocked last night).
I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the Montero era. Sigi simply doesn’t make statements like he has about Montero unless he is wearing extremely thin. Montero will undoubtedly go on a little run at some point this season (because he really is THAT skilled), but consistency comes from having more than one weapon in your arsenal and without a reliable free kick, he’s only got the skill and no pace to counter with. I don’t believe it’s lack of hustle (although he has his moments)…. I saw him pressuring a lot last night. Okay, I’ll go duck out of sight now for the inevitable Montero backlash. One wonders how long our superstar DP will have to continue his, at best, mediocre ways before folks finally recognize that it’s not lack of hustle, it’s a lack of tools.
If we've reached the end of the Montero era then I hope to God the end of the Sigi Schmid era is not far behind.
If he cannot figure out how to use a player as good as Fredy effectively then I don’t want him anywhere near my team.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
This makes me fear for the democracy in sports thing
Sigi’s led us to the most successful expansion team of the modern era, and he has the mls cups to prove it wasn’t a fluke. One frustrating run is not worth jeopardizing this team’s future over.
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 10:21 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
For god's sake...
Sigi benched Fredy at one point last year. I honestly can’t imagine this is a sign that the Fredy Montero era is close to an end.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
He's one of the team's few offensive threats
Getting him in a position to be more successful is now Sigi’s conundrum. Maybe we end up seeing more of the 4-3-3 from the other day with Evans/Rosales/Friberg/Fernandez in the LM/RM roles and Fredy in the center withdrawn forward playing behind Fucito/Jaqua/White. This would give Fredy more space and allow him to both distribute and get off his deep shots when the goalie is looking elsewhere.
On the other hand, I’ve heard Arlo interviewed about which Sounders he could see making the jump to the higher level European leagues and the names he has consistently said are Zakuani, Alonso, and normally Hurtado. Montero isn’t always part of that list. What I can’t tell is if he believes it is obvious or because Montero doesn’t have the ability to flourish as a Forward there.
I've said all along
that if Montero is Europe-bound, it’s likely to be the Dutch league or something similar. Personally, I just don’t see it happening.
Yes, I think it’s the beginning of the end. Think about it from another angle: will Montero want to continue to play for a team that isn’t playing in his best interest (I don’t believe this, but it’s floated around a lot in the blogs) and isn’t really empowering him to be his best? It really does work both ways. Personally, I think Sigi and the front office have very strong concerns about their investment. But it’s just an opinion.
This is entirely unfair
You can slag his lack of consistency all you want, but someone who has registered an assist or goal in 5 of. his last 8 and who is good for 10 and 10 year in , year out definitely has the tools to succeed in mls.
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 10:18 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Fredy was the worst player on the field last night
Save for a few moments of individual brilliance (the chip to Rosales) he was ineffective and turnover prone.
The Chip
Rosales puts that in and today we:
Don’t hate eacother
Don’t hate Fredy
Don’t hate Sigi
A few moments of brilliance is what this club is lacking above all else (other than finishing).
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on May 27, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Fredy played poorly any way you slice it
Too many turnovers, even in a win.
If I remember last year correctly
Montero really started scoring as soon as NKufo was on the field….as if maybe he pulled some defenders off Montero. If Fucito can keep playing this well (which I think he’s obviously going to show better when a team is shelling on defense after their goal) then he’ll start pulling more defenders off Montero and Montero may have some open shots.
The note above about Fucito is a major one. Fucito looked great last night, but at the same time, we were playing a team that was only on defense. When your team has 66% of the possession and 19 shots, your offense is typically going to look good. One thing that I loved from Fucito being on the field was to see someone actually catching up to a ball played through, since it doesn’t seem like anyone else has the speed to catch them anymore (i.e. Jaqua and Montero).
I thought we looked good before they scored
Much better then against SPKC on Saturday. The only thing that I didn’t like was how far apart Parke and Hurtado were playing to cover the wingbacks. Left a big gap down the center of the park behind Alonso and Breck exploited it for a goal.
They caught us on a counter
The reason the goal happened is because the CB’s were out wide covering the flanks that had the charging forwards while Dallas had Shea run up the middle. Our fullbacks were too far up field because they had pressed forward on the Sounders’ previous attack.
I watched the goal about 20 times last night on replay. It’s hard to assign fault to a single Sounder; it was really a great play by Dallas. If anyone could have a culpability, you could assign it to Alonso for “releasing” Shea to the CB’s before they had a chance to close Shea down. The through ball came right as Ozzie released Shea. It was just a perfect play by Dallas, really. Credit where it’s due.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm going to give Montero a pass on this game
He had a pretty awful game, but I’m not going to jump on the anti-Montero band wagon just yet. Here’s my reasons:
1. We’ve had a lot of fixture congestion and with the injuries there have been a few players that are just being run into the ground. Montero has played every game I can remember since he came back from the broken wrist. He’s played the full 90 or close to it for every game and he’s still struggling with the wrist injury. The guy is due for a break.
2. Montero needs a big guy up top to be effective. It’s not a lack of hustle. He just needs someone to create space for him to be effective. Fucito was great in this game, but he just couldn’t do what Montero needed for Montero to be effective. Also, the midfield was crowding up the top of the pitch forcing Montero to come back for service…not ideal.
3. The fullbacks were not as effective this game on offense. There was a real lack of width in our attack further congesting the space Montero needs to work. I’ll give props to Leo for a really solid defense effort though. Scott…not so much.
Bottom line is Montero is being asked to do a lot in less than ideal circumstances. I honestly think the best thing is to put Montero on the bench for the RSL game in favor of Fucito. Sigi can call out Montero all he wants, but it won’t do much if Montero is flat-out exhausted. Fucito is more than capable of handling 60 minutes on Saturday while Montero gets a breather.
by Dizzo on May 26, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
well stated
Montero fatigue tends to be streaky.
yep i agree
montero and alonso are the only 2 players to start pretty much every game this season.
and montero did it while being injured.
Well...
Other than the two Montero missed with said injury, you mean?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Do the two games Fredy missed fall under 'pretty much'?
Also forgetting Keller. And Hurtado has more minutes than Montero. Friberg is 50 minutes behind him.
Nos Audietis
There are at least a couple of our players that can take free kicks/corners
I think the biggest problem is that our players just aren’t good in the air offensively for the most part. 99 times out of 100 balls that are placed right where the need to be, and should be put on net, are put over the net, over and over again.
99 out of 100?
That’s really just absurd. Rosales in particular last night had some dreadful corners and Friberg had some duds, too. We’re not even giving the guys in the box a chance a lot of the time.
Rosales hit two
At knee hieight and one launched all the way past the goal about 30 yards up.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Absurd is a good word
I agree that this is absurd. I think about 99 out of 100 balls aren’t placed correctly. They are driven in low and get taken by the first defender MOST of the time.
I might have been the president of the Stevie Z fanclub before the injury
But now its even more stunning what a gifted soccer player he was and what an important part of this team. When his leg was broken, the left leg of this team was broken. We’re slow and with Fredy struggling there’s no creative finishers on the pitch right now.
by ClosetCoug on May 26, 2011 12:43 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
THIS
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 26, 2011 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions
We actually have
a decent replacement for Zakuani. That guy that spun Lahoud and ripped a goal against Chivas. And in his few brief moments in MLS this season drew a yellow against Becks. We call him Squiggle.
Instead of bringing in Levesque— old, unsharp, and unrested— at left wing, we could have brought in a natural left winger. At some point, somebody has to demand an answer. On its face, it just looks like sheer coaching incompetence, then add to it the result— 4 points in 3 home games. 2 goals. 1 in stoppage.
Not what fans paid to see.
Oh snap
A guy scored a goal in a reserve game? He clearly deserves to be starting.
When a guy doesn’t even make the 18 there might be a reason.
Agreed.
You mean that guy that got red carded in 26 minutes against Dallas last year? The guy who almost picked up a red card in his last reserve match despite only playing for a half? I’d love to see Montano succeed as well, but it doesn’t sound like he’s earned his chance.
by Kenneth Jung on May 26, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
At this point I’d take Tetteh over Montano on the left.
If one player has earned a chance based on Reserve games
It’s Tetteh. Montano, unfortunately, has probably played his way off the 18 by his play in reserve games.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Any inkling of who they take down to Portland?
You’d think with HS soccer being over and some schools finishing this week we’d get to avoid seeing “Random Soccer Player Sigi Knows” in the 18
the semifinals and finals for high school are friday and saturday
so some players might not be available. (because they need a break)
since if you make the final you play back to back days
No Academy players that train with first team are left
other than Michael Gallagher. Garfield, Odea, Beamer are all out.
I'd like to see Fucito on the left, honestly.
It’s not like he’s somehow worse defensively than Zakuani.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
not to nitpick
but would be better on the right as an inverted winger, mirroring Zakuani
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 26, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Frustrated with the whole team
It’s too early to make any definitive judgments about Sigi or the Front Office. Again, the injuries make it hard to draw firm conclusions. And there is still time to turn things around, but it is getting late.
Outside of Alonso the team isn’t playing well right now. The constant line-up shifts, necessitated by the injuries, were really evident today as the guys were disjointed. Passes to players making runs were missed time and again. The lack of organization is, ultimately, on Sigi. Certainly having Zak and Evans would have helped. Still, what we’ve seen so far this year just isn’t acceptable.
As for the FO and their ability to bring in players, it is pretty obvious that Dallas had the better horses. Dallas was bigger, faster, and stronger, and they had better ball skills than us. It must be frustrating as heck for Sigi when he looks at his bench and sees a team of hobbits like Fucito, Friberg, and Montero or creaky old men like Jaqua, Rosales, and Levesque.
The vote on Hanauer is coming up next year. Unless the FO has multiple tricks up its sleeve to make wholesale changes between now and the start of next year that vote is going to be really interesting.
Agreed
but I suspect the FO has seen the folly of its ways (trying to bring in impact players AND get a bargain). Adrian has downplayed it, but I really do believe they’re going to do everything they can to get an immediate name and impact player in July for us. I think they believe their jobs depend upon it (exactly what you just said). Even more, I think they feel the same level of frustration that our best DP and next best (Fernandez) consistently underperform (although Flaco has strung together some solid performances lately). But I’ll say right now, I hope Adrian gets a chance to make this right—he deserves it for his years of dedication to the team and community.
Beef should be less with Adrian and more with Sigi
Injury issues aside, I’m seeing coaching & tactical errors over the wrong personnel. Adrian’s job of putting a solid group of talent together has been pretty good, considering what players he’s brought here. Getting the players to perform as they should is up to Sigi.
I’m not calling for Sigi’s head though. Not even close.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Having OBW back would help as well
It’s interesting that everyone is pinning the dramatic drop-off offensively on Steve’s injury, which to be fair is a huge issue.
But I haven’t seen many people mention the drop off at TF from White to what Jaqua has provided. And even more than Jaqua, the fact that Levesque has played so much is directly due to the lack of depth at the position without OBW.
It's a good point
Steve has had a huge impact, but it’s also been the niggling injuries that have hamstrung Sigi’s coaching options. They go hand-in-hand this season. As it says on the carton “when it rains, it pours.”
IS he coming back?
When? Such a weird injury problem, and surgery, and a longer than usual recovery because he couldn’t move during his hospitalization.
Could be under two months at last report
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
The news last week was that he should be off the blood thinners in ~4 weeks (so 3 from now)
And then he’d have to get back to match fitness before he started playing again.
Yeesh
That scares me, frankly. “Blood thinners”, yeah, that’s not a common thing. And he’s super out of shape, more than a regular injury, because he was basically immobilized. That all just makes me nervous. How do they check him for recurrence of the problem? I guess it’s just the oddity of it that scares me.
I've seen and played in many games like this
where you play, feel, and look like the clearly better team. I’m not gonna beat myself up too much about this loss, as I felt like we were fingertips and inches away from taking 3 points ourselves.
Brek placed his shot absolutely perfectly to split our defense, unfortunately we didn’t get one back right away. If this had felt like a repeat of the SKC game, where we barely created any opportunities, I’d be worried. However, tonight’s lineup played well, despite the lack of finishing.
If this is how we play, with all our injuries and fitness issues, against a team in top form who is almost certainly destined for the playoffs, I like our chances to make the playoffs and come away with some silverware.
by agtk on May 26, 2011 1:20 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
If Dallas is a playoff team
How does that equate to us having good chances, considering we haven’t beaten a top tier team yet? We’ve lost to NYRB, LAG, and Dallas, among others. I know those are some of the better teams in the league, but if you want to talk about silverware and playoffs, you have to be able to beat those teams.
The Sounders haven’t shown they can do that.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Look at it this way
Sounders have lost to FCD, LAG, and NY, all of which I’d put in a Tier 1 w/ RSL right now. And randomly lost to DCU. We “deserved” at least a point against both FCD and NY, but perhaps our fortuitous win against SKC made up for it.
We have beat SKC, TFC, CHI, and CLR, all of which were games a playoff team should win.
We have tied fellow likely playoff teams CLB, POR, HOU, and PHI, and got a point on the road in SJ.
This looks like the resume of a likely playoff team to me. If the team plays as well as it did against FCD, it is going to get a point or a win on most nights. The results will come, and the transfer window will bring relief. As I said, this team will have a good chance to earn some silverware, either through the playoffs, or through another Open Cup run. I am confident that Sigi understands the stakes, and will do what is necessary to make it happen.
Exactly
I think it’s appropriate to tone down expectations in light of injuries and recent performance. The sounders aren’t competing for the shield this year. We’re a mid to upper mid table team that should make the playoffs and has a chance to go on a run of good form to claim an MLS or US Open Cup.
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 10:29 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't forget the summer window
We have the cap space and the slots to make some improvements over the summer. We just need to stay competitive on points until the F.O. can bring in some help. Hopefully a target forward!!!
Is S@H going to identify some potential Striker options in the upcoming window for us?
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
There have been some names on frees that have been floated around S@H
It’s definitely a good idea for an article. I might take up the task especially since I’m curious myself. Thanks for the suggestion. :-)
Yes.
I’m not feeling down about this game. If the Sounders can continue to perform at this level, the season is looking much brighter. Credit to Sigi for finding a solution—though I’m a little taken aback that he’s calling out Montero publicly. That didn’t work with two previous DPs.
A couple thoughts
One, the stats are almost always going to be tilted in your favor if your opponent scores early in the match and then plays bunker ball for the rest of the match. The way they were sitting back possession means nothing.
Both Rosales and Friburg looked a little off tonight, overweighting passes and dribbling into trouble, but at least you could see a little passion. Both have flashes of brilliance and the passion that makes me trust their next games will be sharper.
Montero is a joke. Say what you will about his streak last season, but I’d gladly take someone with more consistency and heart in their game over what I’ve seen so far this season. Biggest mistake our front office has made in the past two years was signing him DP. Thought it then and continue to think it now.
I tend to agree
Look, I think we all know Montero is a quality player, but up to this point so far he’s completely ineffective. Is it his fault? Maybe, is it other players fault for not getting the ball to him properly? Maybe. No matter how you look at it, he’s just plain ineffective. We either need to find a way to make him effective or get him off the pitch and figure out a way to win without him….oh wait we did that once already this season. Funny how our unbeaten streak started with Fredy off the pitch and Rosales in his place.
Broken record here
he’s simply too slow to get separation in this league consistently and a forward who can’t do that, simply will not score consistently. Period.
Ditto
I’ll see your “period”, and raise you an “!”
Will agree on the broken record part
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
The unbeaten streak started w/o Montero
And of course, the unbeaten streak went four more games with him … so the correlation is obvious?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
We agree on this
I’m not a Montero supporter at this point and you are, that’s clear. But I’d totally agree with you on this…. it ain’t up to one man to win or lose a game (even though they sometimes do). I’d also agree that there’s a reason why all-stars always give credit to their teammates, because they are very much a part of any success an individual has.
There's no question that Montero needs to score mroe
But this team has a lot of problems and Montero is simply the easiest one to point at. I just can’t believe that this team is better without him than with him.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not really getting that
since Ichiro has produced at an astounding level his entire career. One could reasonably argue he’s been the best player in baseball for the past five seasons. At least from my perspective, it’s an apples and oranges kinda thing.
Foriegn player, highly paid, expected to carry the team, is at his best with good parts around him
But can’t do it all by themselves like a home run hitter or stud striker.
Because of this people want them gone because they can’t “carry” the team. Instead they’re both solutions in need of more supporting parts.
by CMC_Stags on May 26, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
maybe not the popular opinion
I think, especially since Zak’s injury, it’s pretty clear they’re a much better team with Brad Evans. Since the 2nd half of the Portland game – Flaco’s early goal aside – the midfield pace has been bad.
Ozzie is working his tail off cleaning up, at least.
by jayw913 on May 26, 2011 6:52 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
How long can Ozzie last?
The guy has played a full 90 for almost every game. Like Riley, he’s going to need a rest soon.
by Dizzo on May 26, 2011 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
a while (I hope)
If he’s been fatigued, I haven’t noticed, but, yes… seems like sooner or later he needs a break. Carrasco might be able to get the job done back there for a night, provided he makes good decisions.
Not just 90 minutes
But a HARD 90. Alonso was running the show all night — the only guy making accurate passes, the only guy receiving well, the only guy breaking up Dallas action, the only guy setting up plays. You couldn’t ask for more —if there was more he’d be a star for Barca or Man Utd and he wouldn’t be in MLS.
The guy is amazing
He does that every game for a full 90, yet somehow still manages to get up for the next game. His fitness level is off the charts. Still, I’d rather he get a rest some point soon. Alonso picks up an over-use injury and we could easily lose the next few games.
Well, you could have asked that Ozzie not release Shea
on the through ball that lead to the goal. Parke was still out on the flank covering a streaking Castillo because Zach Scott had pushed forward on the last Sounder attack. By the time Parke could release Castillo (I think it was Castillo, might have been #18), Shea already had a full-speed run; Parke couldn’t swivel and accelerate to catch up in time.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Ozzie plays in his zone
You can see him laying off both forward and back. It’s part of what makes him so effective IN that zone. He’s never going to track back with Shea all the way to goal; it’s not his job. The only thing he lacked there was teammates.
hmmmm
Castillo and Chavez had both pushed out wide, covered by Hurtado and Parke. Leo and Scott were both tracking back from the other side of the field because the Sounders had just finished an attack of their own.
When Dallas was on the counter, only Parke & Hurtado were back deeper, with Alonso just ahead of them. Alonso released Shea to go after Jacobson – the assist player – who was already being hassled by (I think it was Friberg). Unfortunately Alonso released Shea to go after Jacobson before he had any support behind him, and Parke and Hurtado were both pushed out wide due to Castillo and Chavez doing such a great job of stretching the field and playing wide – something we weren’t able to do.
I’m not saying we need to start pointing the finger at Alonso as being AT FAULT for the goal; just saying I don’t think he should be releasing streaking attacking players without support, especially on the counter.
In normal run of play, yes, he plays zone and that is fine. I just don’t think his zone play on a counter is a good idea.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm also now realizing that Ozzie might have thought
Parke & Hurtado were playing higher than they were, so perhaps he was expecting Shea to run offside…
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd like to think Evans appreciation has finally begun
Team has definitely been worse without him
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
wish I had the time
to pull the stats, but just off the top of my head the W-L, GF/GA stats with and without Evans make a pretty clear case. I think we have 1 GF w/o him (apologies if this is wrong)?
This far into the season that cannot be called coincidence.
team hasn't been playing toronto...
…and pulling any of Rosales, Fernandez or Friberg to put him back in will have some offensive drawbacks.
That said, I’m looking forward to having him back for selected starts and a good alternative when any of the above are out of form.
I think Evans should be starting every match if fit
He’s the best box to box CM for “Sigi’s Arrow” when the full team is available.
He’s the best fit for a box to box RM/LM in a 4-3-3 or 4 <4> 2. He provides more offense than Carrasco and more defense than any of Rosales, Fernandez, or Friberg. If the fullbacks are going to be providing width to the attack, another midfielder besides Alonso has to be able to defend.
with the impact...
that the team can’t effectively work the ball through the middle. Use Friberg/Rosales/Fernandez when you need penetration through the middle. Use Evans when flank play is enough for the offense. Do not rely on flank play when you don’t have an effective target at forward.
Last night all of those guys were playing and we had nothing through the middle
When did the team move the ball effectively through the middle last night? None of Friberg, Rosales, or Fernandez were there when Ozzie won the ball and needed to move it up the field last night. Ozzie would win the ball, dribble around for a while looking for someone, no one would show, he would give up and boot the ball forward. We were better at playing the ball through the middle with Evans around, or even Sturgis as someone else mentioned. Especially when Rosales was central, he’d get pushed really high, leaving a big void in front of Ozzie, and Montero would often react to that empty space by dropping back to get the ball because there was no one in the middle to provide the link to him.
That's what I saw too
If guys weren’t opening up wide, it was only Montero who would finally track back to pick up the ball. Rosales did not seem good linking from defense to offense. I can’t wait until Evans is back.
as CMC_Stags alludes to, "width" is the key
when we have our fullbacks pushing up to provide width, we lack the speed to be effective against the counter.
when the fullbacks don’t push up, we’re in a position to defend, but we don’t have width and our opponents can stay tight at the back cutting off passing lanes.
flank play and attacking through the middle are not mutually exclusive.
our lack of speed is really hurting us
by PeterJH on May 26, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't this argue for having Montero at CAM?
…and Rosales in front of him?
At full fitness, besides Zak, I'd like
OBW-Montero
Flaco-Evans-Alonso-Rosales
Wahl-Hurtado-Parke-Riley
Keller
The stats...
with evans: 3-1-4, 11 GF, 7 GA
without evans: 1-3-1, 2 GF, 4 GA
This far into the season, this means something, and not just that he had a good game against Toronto. Five games he’s been out and only two goals in those? I tend to not overemphasize stats as games don’t play out on paper.
But this is a pattern that has to be considered. This is a third of a season and a clear pattern within that.
by jayw913 on May 26, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on Evans
Not only have we realized how much we miss him, I think we just added another necessity to our wish list along with a striker: a true box-to-box CM. We have one in Evans, but with injuries and fixture congestion, we could use another.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually a nice compromise
would be a Dempsey-type of player; someone that can be that true box-to-box CM, but can also move up top and finish some chances for you as a withdrawn striker.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
The one thing that concerns me about Alonso
Is how many shots he takes. Guy has two goals in 3 years and leads the team with 22 shots. That’s not who you want shooting, especially when a shot usually means a turnover.
He's the guy at the top of the box on set pieces who's the volley specialist
I’m not seeing a problem with it.
by Brian Floyd on May 26, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
In all honesty, I saw 3-4 opportunities where I WANTED him to take a shot
but instead he passed it out wide.
Then maybe that needs to be changed
Also, are you sure about that? Isn’t it usually he and Riley who drop back to defend?
On corners, you'll almost always see Alonso floating in the area the ball would be headed out to in the middle of the field.
by Brian Floyd on May 26, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Then I stand corrected
But I do think the position needs to be looked at. I cant even remember the last time Alonso put one on frame.
That's what I like
It means we actually have a second bite at the apple if it comes back to him. That’s pretty unusual.
Christ, if we had ten Alonsos we’d be golden.
He does shoot a lot
I will say that a.) he doesn’t lead the team (Montero does by a long shot) b.) most of his shots are of the “keep the defense honest” variety. Would like more of them to be on frame tho.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
The ones that are on frame are wicked
He always hits with power. When it’s on target it’s usually a tough save for the keeper.
I thought Arlo said last night
that he led the team in shots taken. Could have just been my hearing things. Regardless, you are absolutely right, the shots he does take need to be more effective.
question on refs
I am not normally one to blame refs but last night from my seat it seemed to be called very bad. I have not watched TV yet so I could be wrong, but how did it look on TV?
Just seemed like Multiple times where the Dallas guy ran full speed into the sounder with the ball and no foul. Other times both players are fighting for the ball and there is was a slight bump and we get the call. A few of the big fouls not called were in the box too.
Anyways I do not like blaming the refs but it seemed really bad last night.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
From what I saw on TV..
…the ref misses several calls. Hell Jackson (I think that’s his name) should have picked up a second yellow and sent off a couple different times. Is the MLS ref situation always this bad? I know I’m a bit new but even I am noticing a lot of fouls that aren’t being called. Frustrating as hell, as I’m sure it is for the guys getting fouled.
That aside, I saw a lot of missed passes, most of them long ones but still. Fucito’s got wheels for sure, but even he can’t catch up to some of the ones I saw last night.
by Timm Higgins on May 26, 2011 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm trying to remember the last time I saw someone get a second yellow
Seems like the MLS code is 1) get a yellow card 2) commit murder on the field because the refs are leary of kicking you out.
by blakec on May 26, 2011 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Other than the points you brought up, and the diving...
the one thing that got me about the ref was a couple different points where (and I could be remembering wrong on this) he appeared to play advantage for us in a dangerous position, we weren’t doing anything (stood around, passed sideways), ref was holding the advantage signal when Dallas just took the ball away, and he didn’t pull back for the free kick. Why continue pointing advantage if you’re not going to give the free kick, no matter what?
Dive?
How can you call that a dive? He got hair gel in his eye.
Did you see Shea take a full cup of beer after he scored his goal? That was pretty.
No, that was disgusting
And the supposed fans should have been kicked out
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on May 26, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
Substitution pattern
Can someone explain to me the logic of substituting offense for offense when down a goal at home? Is there a logical reason not to take out a defender and switch to a 3-4-3 (or a 3-3-4) at some point, especially when you can always have Levesque drop into the back line if you get even? I know the marking backs were pushing up some and guys were probably tired, but I would have taken any of the three guys we subbed out over any of the back four to try to crack that bunker in the last 10 or 15 minutes.
You have to consider fitness & effectiveness
Sigi will take offensive players off if they can’t go 90, or if they are ineffective.
I don’t have problems with the subs from last night. The DCU match, on the other hand….
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Leo is the only defender I would have considered subbing off
Dallas wasn’t pushing forward much in the second half, but when they did, it seemed like our back four had their hands full. I thought each player who got subbed off wasn’t being very effective by the time he was subbed off, too. And sometimes when the other team is packing it in, sending more numbers forward just clogs up space and doesn’t help a whole lot. Just putting fresh legs into the same system can be pretty effective.
Alonso is brilliant!
He has become our best player defensively and, to an extent, offensively. He is currently the only player making quality decisions passing-whys on a consistent basis. Everyone else is either booting it forward (ahh, got to love the Marshall special) or pulling a Vagenas and passing it backwards. The only other players, other than Alonso that is, I see making an attempt at decent, aggressive, dangerous passing is Rosales—who, IMO, has been pushing forward too much to be much of a distributor; Friberg—who has a great touch on ball and who, at first, I thought was getting into decent positioning, but now I am realizing is either not match-fit or too slow to make himself consistently useful; and, finally, as much as I hate to say it, Evans—who almost always makes the smart passes and the smart runs to keep our midfield formation and tactics looking smooth and aggressive.
I am now having day-dreams of the good times when we had Alonso and Sturgis in the midfield dishing out the goods. You had Alonso beautifully stopping the attack, then playing the simple ball to Sturgis, who would then distributed another simple ball to a holding forward and then BOOM, goal (exaggeration, I know, but damn, didn’t they work well together, Alonso and Sturgis; peas in a pod those two).
These injuries are killing us. We need to spread the field—which is hard without Zak—and make the connecting passes through the midfield—which is currently nonexistent, other than Alonso (have I said how much I like Alonso) who has his time occupied playing defense for the entire central midfield—and find a forwards feet before starting our attack (O’Brian White, you’re looking better with each passing game). On the other hand, if I can be a trifle optimistic for a second, I think our defense, for the most part, is extremely strong and reliable and has become our strength as a team, but, sadly, for whatever reason (I am thinking injuries at this point) this strength has now become the focal point of our entire game plan; basically, what I am saying is, we have become an MLS team—you play hard on defense, you boot the ball forward, and then you hope for the best (ugh…this is some frustrating soccer to watch and support).
Glad I got all this off my chest :)
2 misconceptions need clarifying
The misconceptions that were recently posted regarding Fucito’s fitness were addressed, and refuted last night. There was/is no “fitness issue”, and he was clearly ready to start..
The claim that he would be a “drastic gamble” was rather wreckless. There wasn’t a better player on the field.
Some like to “trust Sigi’s judgement”. Well, if you subscribe to that premise, then it speaks volumes that a guy who makes $42K was kept on the field the entire 90’ (who supposedly wasn’t fit enough to even start), and Sigi yanks instead the $636K man.
Fucito has earned his stripes. Sigi’s comments and actions now seem to reflect he is finally on board.
It was a drastic gamble and it didn't pay off.
Fucito had a good game but the Sounders looked completely ineffective until Jaqua came on. And if people are seriously suggesting Fucito start over Montero, well, I just don’t know what to say to that.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Dave gets Fucito's worth too
Has for 2 years. He was well ahead of the curve. And most are suggesting Fucito start. You are in a minority. “Drastic gamble”? Please.
I do agree that Fucito would play better with Jaqua however.
The drastic gamble was starting Fredy and Fucito together.
There has become this culture around Fucito where anyone who suggests he shouldn’t be on the pitch in a given situation is somehow a heretic.
I get Fucito. I like Fucito. I think starting he and Fredy up top together was a ridiculously stupid idea. I don’t think he’s anywhere near as good as Fredy Montero, and the fanboying is getting really, really old and tiresome. It doesn’t bother me when Dave does it because he actually seems to have a realistic grasp of, well, reality. A lot of other people don’t.
Being in a minority does not automatically equal being wrong, and given a lot of the things I hear Sounders fans say I am just fine with diverging from the norm.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agree
That’s what this forum is for. I also don’t think it’s optimal, and while I wanted him to start, I’d have put him with Jaqua.
I can’t comment on the “fanboy” remark, because I’m not in that category.
I’m fine with you diverging, as long as you offer equal respect rather than just dismiss out of hand.
I've given plenty of reasons why I thought the Montero-Fucito pairing wouldn't work.
Based on last night, I think it’s fair to say that some of my assumptions were reasonable.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
No question
Very reasonable in fact. I think we agree here. But I don’t agree a Montero-Jaqua pairing is better, and Levesque isn’t even worth discussing.
I think we disagree on whether Fucito should be starting. I think we probably disagree as to where. I would move Montero from WF to the midfield. I would start Fucito at WF.
I would be fine with experimenting with that
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Good
Either at the top of the diamond, or at the RW. I’m just trying to figure out how to get more space for Montero.
I also tried to find that comment in the KC thread, and could not. I will keep looking. But in the meantime, I will apologize for getting the cart before the horse. My bad.
by chakra-kahn on May 26, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think last night proves that at all
The Sounders looked more dangerous in the first half last night than they have all season
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 10:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Or the Toronto game, where we scored three goals?
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
WSighting the performance versus the quality of the opposing defense,
No, I’m not forgetting those games.
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 3:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought we had more chances on goal this match
than the last match where Montero/Jaqua started up top. Not saying I favor the Montero/Fucito pairing up top, just saying I don’t think any theories were either proven or disproven last night.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
yep i agree
we definitely had more chances.
and i think montero/fucito is better then montero/jaqua and montero/levesque
I agree
I think Fucito was effective, but in ways that didn’t help the team. Namely, he wasn’t able to generate space for Montero as effectively as say Jaqua. Or even Rodger. I think the end result of this change-up is highlighting the glaring need for another target man.
by Dizzo on May 26, 2011 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dallas Defenders = Tree Trunks
Fucito last night was getting shut down by the superhuman giants surrounding him. They were just taking the ball off of him. He had nowhere to go and no one to lay off to. It’s not just size, it’s muscle — Fucito doesn’t have enough.
Fucito outmuscled both Jackson and John at various points.
He also ran through them on a couple of great runs that didn’t quite bounce favorably or he didn’t finish. That being said, the Dallas defenders played a great game last night. John in particular cleaned up all the messes Jackson was leaving on the left.
Well, here's a news flash
Fucito may be the strongest man in the world playing soccer right now. I’ve happened to be in the weight room with the guy and his bench is unbelievable.
I too
find that Fnarf comment to be absurd. George had his hands full with him, and Sigi said the same thing during the 1st half interview. He’s fast and incredibly strong and muscular.
by chakra-kahn on May 26, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The highlight of the match for me...
…was watching Fucito manhandle a CB with close to 8 inches of size on him. As they say…it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.
In the world, huh?
In the WHOLE WORLD? And yet he is somehow just a below-mediocre player in a mediocre league? Fascinating.
I’m not really interested in bench presses. Bench presses don’t have anything to do with soccer. He still looks like a player who is always surprised to see a ball near him to me. Maybe he was getting through one of them once in a while without the ball, but when the ball comes, they picked it off him like candy from a baby.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Fucito has a future here. But it’s definitely a future, not a right-now. I think he should be playing, but not every game, and he shouldn’t be relied on for anything yet (discussions here and elsewhere always devolve into “he’s fantastic” vs. “he’s crap”).
Repeating factual inaccuracies doesn't make them true
… but when the ball comes, they picked it off him like candy from a baby.
It just didn’t happen that way. Fucito created more chances than anyother player last night. It wasn’t because FCD’s Centerbacks dominated him.
He routinely won headers from them
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on May 26, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
headers
Headers are mostly uninteresting to me. I like guys who can play with their feet. Maybe I’m watching the wrong league. It seems like half of every MLS game is air balls bouncing randomly between one side and the other, back and forth, back and forth.
Just because they're uninteresting to you doesn't mean they're not important.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo...
….might just be watching the wrong league. But hey, headers are a part of the game. Maybe Cricket would be more to his liking/
by Timm Higgins on May 26, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Headers are interesting
when the guy who is winning them has an 8 inch height disadvantage.
by agtk on May 26, 2011 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not really
Headers are interesting if they go somewhere valuable — to an open player who can bring it down (key: bringing it down), or onto goal (thank you Jeff Parke). Headers that just boom off into some random direction, usually to an opponent who then does the same thing, are not interesting.
Fucito put one on goal
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on May 26, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hartman got a fingertip to it and it went off the post.
Did you actually watch the game?
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you just trolling now?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm trying to figure out..
…exactly what game you were watching.
by Timm Higgins on May 26, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
It directly counter to your claims against Fucito
and you just respond with mockery.
The things you claim exist, do not.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
That has nothing to do with "headers"
That can be done with any part of the body. Daves point is that Fucito can win balls in the box in the air against taller players.
I also wasn't talking about headers
You said that he turned the ball over frequently because Dallas’ CBs dominated him. They did not.
Not in the air. Not with the ball on the ground.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
You should be
because in MLS, the guys with upper body strength are the ones who are able to fight of those (damn) holding defenders, create space, and get a shot off.
don't agree with this at all...
the Sounders looked completely ineffective until Jaqua came on.
There was a portion of the second half where MDL cut out on me, so I may have missed something… but I don’t see how the offense clicked any more with him than without particularly considering that by then Dallas was conceding the midfield. Jaqua was largely a non-factor… he didn’t create space for the forwards, he flicked on well enough from headers at midfield but not particularly dangerously.
The small forwards pairing was no less effective at creating chances for Montero than a Levesque or out-of-form Jaqua pairing has been.
That said, pushing Fucito wide or Montero back into midfield and getting Jaqua INTO form (or finding a new target forward) would seem the best way to get Montero back into shape and use the tools in hand.
What misconception?
Are you really arguing that because Fucito went 90 minutes last night, that he was obviously fit enough to go 90 minutes at any time in the past two weeks?
Since May 1st
He was fit enough to start.
Well, since I guess you're calling me out...
For making “wreckless” (sic) comments about Fucito starting, I guess I need to respond…
Fucito looked good. He also didn’t score. He also didn’t make the players around him any better. He also didn’t offer much on defense, that I could tell. He also didn’t keep us from losing. I’m not sure how any of that proves that playing him with this personnel was obviously the right call.
It was an intriguing start, to be sure. I’d like to see more of Fucito, but let’s not act like his playing was some kind of wild success.
As to “trusting Sigi”, let’s at least put that in the proper context. I thought I was pretty clear about it being much more about trusting him in making the assessment on players most of us have barely seen play. Not in blindly backing everything he does.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
fourth on the list
was the thing that really stood out for me. He really doesn’t steal the ball much, does he? I’m surprised. With his speed and strength, he should be getting better numbers. Montero (yup, I’m still not a fan) had at least 2-3 steals in the first half last night.
But, only one start for Fucito, he missed a couple shots, but there are guys who have gotten far more starts and opportunities. What I did like about Fucito was that when he got a chance to use his speed, he really caught Dallas with their pants down. Montero/Fucito? I don’t know why it wouldn’t be a good fit, but I do know we haven’t seen enough of it to know whether it might work. OBW was getting the same smack until he finally scored and started finding his place on the field about four games into the season.
I trust Sig, btw. To do what he believes is in the best interest of the team. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s making the right decisions. But whatever decisions he makes are a whole more informed than mine or any other fans.
To be clear
I’m not slagging Fucito. I liked what I saw. But the idea that he dominated teh game, which some seem to be implying, just isn’t accurate. He played well enough to deserver more opportunities, but not so well that he answered every doubt ever expressed about him (which I don’t think you’re saying).
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't really agree with two of the points there...
Some of his one and two-touch passing represented the best of the link up play we saw from the forwards and midfield, including feeds to forward runs. That Rosales, Fernandez and Friberg didn’t consistently take advantage of it is not entirely on his play.
He didn’t steal the ball… but high pressure leading to bas passes and turnovers is something he applied rather frequently.
Can we please go back and read the following?
by Brian Floyd on May 26, 2011 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
352 Minutes
That’s now long it’s been since a Sounders forward scored. Check it out: Montero in the eighth minute of the Columbus game.
Our stats are misleading because we’ve played 13 games. Only Toronto, New England, Philly, and Columbus have scored fewer goals per game than us. We have a worse offense than VANCOUVER. Our defense, and Kasey, are the only things keeping us in games.
You can talk all you want about possession, but if it’s all in the back half it doesn’t matter. Get the ball to Montero, what does he do? Stops, puts his foot on it, looks around. EVERY SINGLE TIME. He’s never going to find what he’s looking for, either, because it doesn’t exist — an open man in the box? We don’t do that.
Yeah, we look worse on a per match basis
Arlo made a big deal last night that we were fighting for 2nd in the west last night. Totally misleading considering how many of our rivals have games in hand still.
This I blame on the league
MLS has no clue how to schedule. Twice now we’ve had stretches of three games in eight days. And all season long there have been teams with almost twice as many games as others — LA 14, KC and RSL 8. What the eff? Salt Lake is nine points back with six in hand! That’s completely stupid. Yes, I know they played in the Champions League. MLS is amateur hour.
Look at the godawful refs we’ve had, too. Not just blowing calls — everybody thinks their team is getting screwed by refs. I’m talking about basic game management, knowing how many players are on the field (and how many balls), getting free kicks and subs done correctly within a reasonable amount of time, etc.
We had to front-load the schedule.
It’s on us, not MLS.
by Brian Floyd on May 26, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
No, MLS front-loaded every team in the CCL
so that they wouldn’t be harmed come the playoffs due to Sept/Oct fixture congestion
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
That, too.
It’s the way it goes with the CCL. With a bunch of late-season competitions, it had to be front-loaded, which is what I meant by on us. We’re in the competitions, the schedule is front-loaded. It is what it is.
by Brian Floyd on May 26, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, RSL being in CCL is irrelevant
When talking about games played, we should at least acknowledge that they’ve played 14 competitive games this year … but darn it, Why isn’t it 18!!!!
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd be incredibly curious to hear your argument that international competition is irrelevant.
Also, MLS is looking out for their own league by scheduling with CCL in mind.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
As a fan
Sure, I care about CCL. But I care about MLS far, far more. I feel the same way about any league — I watch the Premier League, I could not care less who wins Saturday’s Barcelona-Manchester United final (well, I want Barca to win just because I hate Man Utd, but again, that’s a league thing). If Tottenham was still in it, I’d feel differently, but everyone knows that will never happen.
The league is the one that matters.
And not as a fan but as an MLS executive, I would hope that one’s ONLY concern is MLS league games.
I would understand if teams fell a game out of sync, or maybe even two — but SIX? That’s absurd. It’s disrespectful to the league.
And it’s not just RSL either. Seven teams have only ten games. It’s a shambles. It’s saying “our league standings are unimportant”.
MLS doing well in CCL directly benifits the league.
And the front-loading of schedules is directly related to CCL play.
by Aaron Campeau on May 26, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a reality of the schedule
Like it or don’t, but I would think ignoring the reality of fixture congestion would be far worse.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Whatever you think of CCL
RSL was obligated to play in those games. Forcing them to maintain a “normal” MLS schedule would just be stupid.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not shocked, but
Wow. The number of comments in this post about Mike Fucito is pretty extraordinary. I’m not sure how much he has to do with the current form of the team, though.
Two things
1. I was pleasantly surprised with the play of Zach Scott. Not impressed, not awed, but surprised. He was much better defensively than I expected him to be and after getting over early game jitters seemed to do ok offensively. I was surprised Shea didn’t go at him more but the possession domination probably helped with that.
That being said, we still need a dynamic fullback that can get into the attack as well as defend. Scott can’t and Riley isn’t.
2. Has there ever been a person with a better suited name than George John?
I thought Scott was ok on defense
but he didn’t help the attack as much as Riley does. Scott’s service wasn’t on-point, but to be fair that could be because of a lack of chemistry with this lineup.
by ABTsportsline on May 26, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Someone had mentioned a few stories ago that Carrasco
would be an interesting outside back. Gotta agree. While I think he will develop his offensive skills eventually, right now he looks a little lost when he gets into the front third. But he’s every bit as tenacious as Alonso on defense, which makes me wonder if he could play the position? Anyone know enough about him to know if he’s ever played there? Just a thought…. perhaps a bad one.
Pretty sure he's been a CM most of his career
But he does seem to have the skillset for a FB. Would be interesting.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm actually feeling pretty positive after last night's game
Was more or less expecting a loss going in against one of the hottest teams in the league with an offensive gameplan aimed squarely at our biggest weakness on defense (counters).
What I didn’t expect was how damn good we’d look while losing. This team deserved a point and could have walked away with all 3. I have no idea what the posters above me are talking about: the Fucito start was an unqualified success. We looked more dangerous with him contributing to and receiving short passes than we have all season. If the offense can continue playing as they did last night, I’m very optimistic for the future.
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 10:45 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Guys
I don’t have your streamline typing skills. Having an exchange with 1 is challenging enough, but generally constructive. You triple-teaming with these scattered, sometimes defensive off-point retorts while I’m off trying to research a quote from roughly 2 weeks ago is an interesting argument strategy in itself. After all, YOU asked me too.
I will not exchange “BS” and “dumb” comments. So Aaron, I’ll pass on any further direct commenting on your pieces, and won’t respond to yours. I was under the impression our exchange was over, we had ventured into common ground, and I believe I apologized for jumping the gun on a point I initiated. My mistake. I’m sure we’ll each do fine without the other’s input.
My argument with Jeremiah was what I was researching. It was very fresh in my memory, and I was responding initially to an extemporaneous argument. Hence, I was doing what he asked, which was to find the quotes.
However, given the ensuing barrage while I was doing so, “I’ll stop acting like I care” as well.
by chakra-kahn on May 26, 2011 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If you're going to put words in people's mouths
Expect to get called on it. Crazy suggestion: before making claims about what someone said, you may want to research it. That’s what a good journalist does.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
It was discussed earlier, but...
… it’s worth pointing out that Scott was better than I expected. He won header after header against Brek Shea — which I don’t think Riley could have done given Shea’s substantial height advantage and the number of long balls Dallas pumped forward to him — and did a pretty good job of keeping dangerous attacks from coming up the right wing. Yes, he got caught upfield on the goal, but certainly that wasn’t all on him; and he didn’t link very well with the offense, but I don’t think anyone expected that from him. All in all I thought it was a positive showing, and a good decision from Sigi to mix it up at the back and get Riley some rest.
I was frustrated during the game
Because Scott was clearly a weak spot in our offense. Dallas would leave him open and he couldn’t do much productive with it. But looking back, I think it was wise to put him on Brek and give Riley a rest. We will certainly need Riley fully fit for RSL.
It's incredible how passive-aggressive, defensive, and plain arrogant a lot of these comments and replies are.
I never remember seeing such childishness and pique last year, even when the Sounders were in a much worse spell than they are now.
Let’s get some perspective for a moment. I was at the match, and saw what happened, as I’m sure we all did. It was a poor result, and the team generally played badly.
This is aimed at all posters, mods and members alike: there is no need to be so snarky! Yes, we’re pissed about the result. Yes, the internet is a great medium for bitching at people that you just know are wrong. But in the end, it just distracts from more serious discussions about the team.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on May 26, 2011 2:49 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
"Clever snarky response"
There I did that before someone else could.
Well said AKSupporter, thanks.
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
Point taken
We’ve experience some pretty phenomenal growth at Sounder at Heart over the past year (almost 200 percent) and part of that is we have a lot more people commenting. I’ll admit that I’ve gotten short with people at time. The mods probably need to be better about keeping the commentary on the up and up, but we also need to be more proactive about hand slapping poor behavior.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I would also welcome
A more proactive moderation policy.
by Tohoya on May 26, 2011 3:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Please use the flag buttons
In fact, maybe I’ll put together a post on this kind of stuff.
by Brian Floyd on May 26, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Please don't "hand slap" the trolls.
It just leads to slap fights.
We can all tell when someone is trolling. If someone posts something inaccurate, sure, you should correct it. But if they’re still arguing the same point 2 replies later without adding anything constructive to the conversation, please don’t keep responding.
The mods don’t always need to have the last word.
by LoiteringWithIntent on May 26, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
hand slapping was wrong word
Obvious trolls have and will be banned. But we do appreciate people using the tools available to all readers in alerting us to them.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 26, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks everybody, glad that didn't fall on deaf ears.
And I was thinking about growth…I certainly have noticed a lot of new faces posting, but 200% is phenomenal. Keep up the good work everyone, this really is THE comprehensive place for Sounders news and discussion (in my opinion of course…no knock on the other forums out there).
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
He's wrong
It is 300% Year to Year
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on May 26, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
As nothing more than a Sounders fan...
This blog is one of my main sources for information on the club. I like this blog and I come here often specifically because it has been devoid of all the crap that that has surfaced in these comments. I enjoy and respect the contributions of those listed in the green at the bottom of the page and that’s what I come here for. If I wanted to read a bunch of snippy, “You said this”, “No I didn’t, I said that” crap, I’d go to a 14 year old’s Facebook page.
by central_scrutinizer on May 26, 2011 5:58 PM PDT reply actions
I've been quiet on this thread
But I’ve read it (nearly) in its entirety, and I just want to thank Jeremiah and Dave and the rest of the staff for the work they put in to make S@H among the best Sounders sites out there. Only Prost even comes close. If you get testy for the c*** you have to put up with, you’ve got a right.
by bauckus on May 26, 2011 6:26 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
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