The Sounders and the lack of wing play
First of all, let's make an honest assessment about the month of May for the Sounders. Eight points through 5 matches isn't bad, in fact it is pretty decent. 1.6 PPM would put them 5 overall on the League PPM table right now. By way of comparison to the last two season, 1.6 PPM though 30 matches is 48 points. Not bad at all.
Of course, this is all tempered by the disappointing draw at home to the Portland Timbers and then the maddening loss to FC Dallas, but they saved their month, so to speak, with the huge win over RSL and the "fortress" of Rio Tinto.
Results speak for themselves, and they speak louder than style ever will. Just ask the Philadelphia Union or even the Timbers about that. But let's also not kid ourselves here; 1.6 PPM is hardly breakthrough stuff. It will fall well short of the Shield, and it will likely place the Sounders around 6th on the overall League table at the end of the year. While this is a marginal improvement over last year (6th out of 18 is a bit better than 6th out of 16) it still has them flirting with a dreaded "wild card" playoff spot, given the silliness of the League structure.
In short, if you want to make the playoffs, 1.6 PPM is fine. If you want to be top of the table, it falls short.
But the injuries… yes, the injuries. When the month started, injures were a big problem, really nearly a crisis. We were not able to field our best side against Portland because of injuries, and this certainly had an effect. But against Dallas we fielded one of the most attacking lineups of the year, and against RSL we were fit and deep enough to keep a DP on the bench to start and not have it seem shocking. Despite all the injuries, we are still fielding teams composed primarily of players deemed good enough to protect last November, or go out and sign from other teams or even leagues last offseason. Aside from perhaps Carrasco, Sigi hasn't been forced to dip into what could truly be called reserve players (keep in mind that Neagle appeared in each of the first two matches this year).
So, yes, injuries have been a problem. But are they an excuse to be boring?
"the death of football"
One of the bullet points of the tactical evolution of the game over the last century is that wingers were once critical, then all but disappeared, then started to re-emerge in the last couple of decades. By the 80's the traditional 4-4-2, in which outside mids were more shuttlers than attackers, came to dominate and the 3-5-2/5-3-2 came in to counter it as "the last great tactical revolution". The 3-5-2 came about specifically because of the lack of wing play, the logic being what good are fullbacks if they have no one to cover. Instead we had wingbacks, and the pyramid had become inverted, the old 2-3-5's of the 20's eventually become the 5-3-2 of the 80's. It was enough for Johann Cruyff to declare it the "death of football"
It is unfair to castigate any particular formation on simply its nomenclature grounds. I have been guilty of seemingly simultaneously warning against it while doing it myself. But when it comes to Sigi's tinkering with the diamond lately, I am certainly prone to express alarm, because as it turns out, the 4-diamond-2 lacks wingers.
The best way to describe the wide midfielders in a diamond are that they are "shuttlers" to either side of a CDM and a CAM. They are no more similar to the wingers in a "bucket" 4-4-2 than they are to the two holders. The easiest comparison is to the two CM's in a 4-1-2-3 version of the 4-3-3: they are two possession-oriented players generally expected to split and cover the pitch between the two of them; operating in front of a deep-lying CDM, and in behind some form of tridente. If that tridente involves a "false 9" style center forward between two wingers - what some may call a "concave 4-3-3" - a nexus is reached between 4-diamond-2 and 4-3-3.
Furthermore, in a well-run diamond system, with its narrow midfield, the fullbacks are expected to push forward and provide width to the attack. In this sense, they can be seen to often be ahead of the CDM in terms of average position. The CDM may sink so deep as to be nearly a 3rd center back. In the end you may end up with something very near a 3-4-1-2 (another nexus); two marking CB's with a third "free" CB able to push into the midfield when needed (indeed, the very spirit of the "sweeper" made famous by the likes of Beckenbauer). The two fullbacks have essentially become midfielders, i.e. "wingbacks" virtually level with the two shuttlers, and false 9 or CAM pushed up high in support of a pair of strikers.
None of this, by definition, is boring. Barcelona manage just such a system with their nominal 4-3-3 which actually manages to be all three of the above rolled into one. Very few will ever accuse Barca of being "boring"
But what of those wingers. In the above "concave 4-3-3" they will naturally push centrally a bit as the "false 9" drops off, looking more like a traditional striker pairing playing up on the same vertical axis. But such systems also thrive on adaptability. A player like David Villa can operate as a winger or a center forward. Thomas Mueller helped Bayern Munich to the Champions League Final in 2010 as a 2nd striker, then won the Golden Boot in South Africa as a right wing in Germany's 4-2-3-1. This leads me to ask of Fredy Montero: can you play as a winger?
inverting our own "pyramid"
Well, it's tough to call it a "pyramid" when it is really just a triangle, but from where I sit one of the key elements to what the Sounders have been doing lies in the shape of that "tridente". Going back to the idea of the two "shuttlers" sitting in behind a trio of attackers, in the diamond that shape is a CAM in behind two strikers. It could be said that the 4-diamond-2 is two triangles, one balanced above the other, both pointing back towards the defending goal. So what if we "inverted" that top triangle, in the process giving it a bit more width? The result is what most people would consider a 4-3-3, and quite a departure from everything we have done. But the shape of the back 3 midfielders remains the same, the idea of having a top forward - familiar in the tactical history of this team - is brought back, and we can get back our wingers.
As to whether or not this makes for less "boring" soccer is certainly up for much debate. The question of who exactly occupies the winger spots is certain to cause a bit of its own controversy. But from where I sit, players like Montero and Mike Fucito really ought to be easily adaptable to those roles. Steve Zakuani certainly excelled in making the switch to the wing, a spot where he had the freedom to run with the ball and directly challenge opposing fullbacks. Then, of course, there are the litany of young attacking players who litter the bottom end of our roster, mostly toiling away in reserve matches. Are we to believe none of these are deserving of a chance?
After my latest write-up I will admit to having had a moment or two of reckoning. It occurred to me that I was probably too negative, I had probably come down too hard on the team for being "boring". But it is what it is. I think it is quite justified to ask where the where the wing play has gone. We only lost one winger on this team, and while it may have been our best attacking player, I have a hard time believing that means we need to give up on wingers altogether.
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I'm confused
In your last paragraph, you admit to being too negative. Looking above, one wonders if you really realize that. Taking some points from your post above, you have lamented that
a) the Sounders aren’t on pace to win the Supporter’s Shield,
b) the injuries have been bad, but not a “crisis,”
c) Fredy Montero hasn’t been used as a winger (I mean, hell, if David Villa and Thomas Mueller can do it, my grandmother probably could, too)
and
d) that the Sounders are playing boring soccer.
You’re practically going out of your way to spin everything in the most negative light possible. It’s not hard to just summarize the month by saying that the Sounders dealt with some major injuries, were still on pace to make the playoffs, should get healthier, and could reasonably be expected to improve as they get healthier.
As for wingers, how does Mauro Rosales get left out of the discussion? He probably has the best run-of-play cross of anyone on the Sounders, healthy or not. Flaco’s no speed burner, but it’s not hard to envision Flaco and OBW knocking in headers off Rosales crosses. Rosales has looked his most comfortable on the right, and surely was miscast as a CAM against FCD.
Even when we’ve played “Sigi’s arrow” it strikes me that we haven’t really had two speed burners on the wings that often. At times, we’ve seen Jaqua, Levesque, Le Toux, an aging Ljungberg, and probably some that I am forgetting. If we get everyone but Zakuani healthy, I figure we’ll get enough speed out of OBW in the middle and Rosales on the right. Those two can draw defenders and create space for Flaco and Montero, who are probably the two best finishers on the team. It’d be nice if Fernandez had more speed, too, but I don’t think we absolutely need speed on both wings.
I completely missed Rosales
you are spot-on.
As for Montero, he is a $500,000 dollar a year DP, paid to be our best attacking player. Is he as good as Mueller or Villa? of course not. Is he expected to be that kind of player at the MLS level? absolutely. 2nd striker/playmaker types or smaller center forward/strikers have shown an adaptibilty to be wingers at many levels.
And you bring up OBW as if we need him to reutrn to full form. Last I checked we protected Jaqua last November and pay him a very high salary by non-DP MLS standards.
Last year, the Sounders went on a 10-1-2 run in League play using primarily fast wingers and 2 holders in the middle. That can’t be a fluke. It was far and away the best extended run of soccer this team has played at the MLS level.
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 30, 2011 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems like a common sight to see Montero on the wings to collect passes from wingers/fulbacks who have taken the ball up the flank and attempt to distrute it into the middle. I haven’t seen him run at the wings or try to dribble past too many defenders to take a shot. It also seems like he takes the majority of his shots from the top of the box and not at an angle. Looking at it anouther way, he can take crosses out of the air perfectly and take quick shots. He does have a natural affenity for drifting to the left it seems. Zakuani always drifted across the field and there is no reason Montero couldn’t aswell and take shots from the top of the box still. Something like Montero on the left, Jaqua in the middle and Rosales on the right seems like an iteresting striking core. Fucito and Neagle would provide back up. A duo of Friberg/Evans or Fernandez/Evans in front of Ozzie in the middle.
A word of caution
OK, we didn’t lose one winger from last years glory-run…we lost them both. Furthermore, Sanna was quick, but how many goals did he create by beating defenders on the dribble/with his speed? There is no question that speed and wing play were important to our identity last year, but as you (Jake) and I have gone back and forth about before, the absolute need for wingers is, I think, quite questionable.
Nevertheless, I like the idea of “inverting our pyramid”, when the personnel, game situation, and match-ups fit. IMO it is a good lineup shift about as often as it is a shift destined to do more harm than good. Where I think we could really use it, is as a shift to get a late goal. It definitely looks the better attack-minded and goal-getting lineup. However, my word of caution is that our defending along the flanks is subject- both in the midfield and at the back. If anyone disagrees that this lineup shift would make those flanks even more vulnerable, I would like to hear your reasoning.
So would the shift create more goals? Yes. Do we have the personnel to pull it off? I think so. Would it make us more vulnerable defensively? Absolutely. But would it shift more games in our favor? I don’t know, maybe- sometimes.
As a last aside: any tactical formation that can beat RSL at home – whether luck (or excitement) is present or not – is probably a pretty good one. No?
As always, I enjoy the content. Well done, even if you are a malcontent.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
the diamond is very narrow
as it stands now our only true flank players are our fullbacks, I don’t entirely follow how playing with wingers makes us more vulnerable
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 31, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
What Nyassi did....
…is force the defense to respect the wing, and cheat out to cover it so the speed didnt beat them on a long ball, cross, or well timed run.
This year, that’s not the case and they can clog the middle and shut things down. Often, the defense is faster than our wingers, and will make up the ground on a good ball attacking on the outside.
We need to get more speed
our current crop of front players is very slow or at least play with very little endeaver. It makes us very predictable and easy to guard. Montero may be a very gifted passer and shooter, but he can’t get 5 yards of space to make anything easy for himself.
All we eat is a steady diet of ball pressure, because we have no one to break that pressure long.
Montano
Looked great yesterday. He made some absolutely beautiful crosses. Great speed and potentially miles better than what we had in Nyassi. With a little more maturing and some time on the 18 he will show his form.
Tetteh also looked great, although I would like to see him in his natural position, but he has great speed and technical ability with good vision. All in all I think Sigi may have used poor choices in his wing subs so far this year by using Roger and Carasco when he has more speed on the bench. Or in Montano’s case not even on the bench.
Levesque is one of the fastest players on the team
in the top five of Zakuani, White, Fucito, Montano and Roger
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Dave
you’re a veritable fountain of knowledge regarding the Sounders (certainly far more than I), but this is very difficult to believe. Faster than Neagle? Faster than Montano? Faster than Michael Tetteh? No doubt Levesque hustles his butt off and has good speed, but top five is really stretching it for me. Is this based upon the times in training (which didn’t include all of the players?) or just an observation?
Times in training
but that included most players. Observation shows that he’s faster on ball than Montano, off ball comparable to Neagle. I haven’t watched Tetteh sprint enough.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
He may be fast but he is surely not a winger. He did look great at right back and his speed and athleticism helps at that. He might after a while of getting comfortable at the position be a better option than Riley. If he’s beat, he’s also fast enough to recover and he physically stronger than Riley.
by Mark Schmidt on May 31, 2011 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
He a better winger than Nyassi
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I understood why Montano isn't seeing the 18 after the reserve game
But Teeteh has really toughened up since the Cascadia Summit. I’d like to see him get some minutes.
were we watching the same game? He may have lost possession a couple of times but he continually beet his man on the wing and put in a great cross. That and he had great off the ball movement and put himself in good positions to receive the ball.
by Mark Schmidt on May 31, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you're missing something...
speed, mainly. We don’t have any. All of our players are pretty skilled, we don’t have anyone that will take on two defenders by himself. No one with break away speed.
Personality of a Winger
The simple truth is that the current top end of the roster doesn’t include players whose mindset mirrors a traditional attacking winger. Zakuani is the only true starting 11 winger the Sounders have had. Nyassi has the potential to develop into one, but the rest of the squad doesn’t fit the mold. So Sigi et al have been working to find a combination of players & a formation that generates offensive pressure while maintaining defensive shape.
The big issue for me isn’t the lack of wingers, it’s the lack of players who apply vertical pressure. The Sounders top 18 really only contains 3 vertical threats; Zak, OBW & Fucito. This is the reason the injuries have had such a profound impact. It’s why Fucito is having so much impact. My hope is that the team addresses this weakness in the Summer transfer window.
by Abbott Smith on May 31, 2011 8:07 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Here's what's bugging me...
Perhaps the biggest complaint against the Sounders last year was their inability to get results despite playing, generally, attractive soccer. Earlier this year, we were bemoaning the inability to score goals, ugly or otherwise.
At some point, I think there needs to be some level of acceptance that winning does not necessarily equal attractive soccer and that attractive soccer does not necessarily lead to winning. Would it be nice to have it both ways? Yes, of course, but complaining about winning ugly just seems, well, ugly.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 31, 2011 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I don't see our style of play being one that can consistently win
I feel like we run out there and knock the ball around and hope for something good to happen. Satuday something good happened. I don’t see this as a team that does anything particularly well; its just go out and play and maybe we’ll get the result. I could be totally off base, but I don’t see that translating into a successful season. I suppose in a parity league with a largely meaningless regular season it could work, but I’m not entirely sure I want to watch it…
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on May 31, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Winning ugly during the first two months of the season is no indication of how the rest of season will happen
There are only 3 health issues now – Zakuani, White and Fernandez. Alvaro’s is probably short term. June will look very different from May tactically, as there will be options.
July with the transfer window opening on the 15th, and OBW returning offers more likely tactical shifts.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
of course
about two weeks ago they said ~2 months
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Spot On
I am nothing but encouraged by our play in the month of May. The toughest stretch (injury wise) is over, as far as MLS play goes, the match at RSL capped off what was a brutal 3 months for our team scheduling wise (though it will be nice come CCL and USOC time) and we had to do it with a shorthanded squad and specifically in the midfield.
We might be able to catch Chicago in a coaching change and win again on the road and then we get Vancover at home after a coaching change, so hopefully we can get 6 points and that’ll put our PPM in the more respectable 1.8 category.
So the way to win, then, is what?
It seems to me that Sigi is trying to figure out what style of play best fits the current personnel. I don’t see how forcing the likes of Montano and whoever else we consider a winger onto the field if they aren’t our best players helps with that goal.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on May 31, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly...
….when I played hockey, I didn’t have the greatest slap shot or a nice wrist shot. My bread and butter were ‘garbage’ goals. Planting my fat ass in front of the net and knock in a rebound. And while in soccer, not all goals are going to look like Messi going end to end – a goal is a goal is a goal. And pretty or not, it counts just the same.
by Timm Higgins on May 31, 2011 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Chicharito
is already become a legend for this.
by TheTank123 on May 31, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dirk Kuyt got a hat trick from a combined two yards outside of goal against ManU this year.
It’s about being in the right place at the right time.
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