Alliance Council Ratifies Constitution - Next Step Club
by Dave Clark on Jun 13, 2011 7:00 PM PDT
in Democracy in Sports
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PrintSomething that the Seattle Sounders do has been percolating in the background. It is a thing for which I have been quite involved. Democracy in Sports is part of the core of this organization, but has been a very nebulous term. The Alliance Council is looking to change that. Last Saturday we met with many representatives from ownership, briefly discussed the proposed Constitution, ratified both unanimously and now await the club to vet it legally as well as provide some clear direction as to what exactly we can do. SoundersFC.com reported on the event.
Among those in attendance for the Sounders FC were owner Drew Carey, owner/general manager Adrian Hanauer, vice president of business operations Gary Wright, vice president of business development Bill Chapin, COO John Rizzardini and director of business development Bart Wiley.
One thing that was quite clear is that everyone in that room was unsatisfied with where things are right now, and all are working towards improved communication between the club and fans, better systems of voting and clearer definitions as to what votes can be held in the future. Retention of the General Manager, a Drew Carey idea, will remain as part of our Democracy.
The Council received a commitment from the club that they would have their portion of vetting and approval done by August 15th, when the Constitution will be presented in full to the entirety of the Alliance for a full vote of ratification. As someone who was active on the Council Committee to write the Constitution it was impressive to see so much progress, but this is still a very new thing that tries to incorporate Democracy into the single-entity model of MLS.
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so where is the draft
being vetted?
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
By the club's legal team
there is a significant increase in things that fans can do through the Alliance and Council
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Only one copy?
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
there are many copies
I’m confused as to what you are getting at
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I am looking for a link.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Once it is vetted it will be published
until then there is a group of about 25 Council members and 6 or so people with the club who have seen it.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Why the secrecy?
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Because it is a legal document
and an early leak could ruin a ton of progress
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
It is not legal till it is signed
And if it ruins any progress it is because the people it is supposed to benefit are not in support of it.
I would think that those in favor of democracy in sports would also favor transparency as well.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
That's a pretty unrealistic expectation
Not sure how many legal documents you’ve worked on, but I’ve never heard of one being made public before it’s, well, public.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 13, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Most all bills are made public
before they are voted and ratified. So was the US constitution. It is not like we are signing a peace treaty with an enemy. It is not a big deal to make it available for others to see and comment on.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
The US Constitution was not made public before it was finished
People in Boston or Charleston didn’t watch what the Founders were doing. A select committee worked on it on their own.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Not to liken this to a bill in congress
But those go through so many committees before they are finally voted upon, and as far as I know they aren’t made public until they are finalized and ready for a vote.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 14, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Bill in Congress (or most state legislatures) are public after being introduced into a committee.
However, lawmakers work on drafts of legislation for months or years, and those aren’t public.
I've negotiated quite a few labor contracts over the years,,,
… and I can tell you from first-hand experience that the so-called “secrecy” is not only standard operating procedure, it’s a necessary element to the process. I see no reason why the process of writing this constitution would be any different.
by Rooselk on Jun 13, 2011 9:39 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Exactly
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 13, 2011 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions
This is such a great thing
So unique in American sports culture and business culture. I really hope this continues to build and grow and stand the tests of time.
We (Council, Ownership) are taking a very long term look at this
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
This is true
I wish I had brought my camera to the event, because Drew looks a lot better now. Although he never shaves on gameday.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Strangely
I’m holding my breath as this thing unfolds. I see the potential for great benefit and disaster. Hopefully, it ends up being a resounding success and other sports will begin to look at the benefits of bringing in the fanbase to the process.
I f'-in love my club.
That’s really all I have to say. Stuff like this makes me proud.
by The King of Norway on Jun 14, 2011 2:58 PM PDT reply actions
Why?
What is it that is so exciting? we have no idea what the constitution says.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Just having a formal outlet for fan input is pretty cool
We tend to forget that the Sounders are a privately owned businesses. Actually having a formal, legal document that gives fans a modicum of power of the running of the club is pretty revolutionary (and un-American). You don’t see GE going out to its customers and getting feedback on their next CEO choice. It will be very interesting to see how the rest of MLS react to the final document.
So far it has had basically no
real world consequence. So I just do not get what is so exciting.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
The fact that this is even entertained as a possibility?
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 14, 2011 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
What is entertained?
Since we do not know what it says, why get excited that it is being entertained?
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Stuff like this
Voting on the team name
Elected group that meats with ownership and provides feedback
Elected group which ran the Supporters Summit (normally a purely SG function)
Getting to vote the GM out every four years, or through other means (this becomes more clear soon)
Elected group writing the Constitution which pending approval by the Club will be sent to entire Alliance for ratification
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
so...
1. team name. That was cool. Especially since it was a write in that won.
2. Not sure what it has done for me. ownership groups get feedback in other groups/teams too. Is it that it is an elected group rather than anybody that is supposed to be exciting? I get more excited when I see feedback listened to rather than electing a group of people to deliver it.
3. So an elected group did something instead of a supporters group?? This is groundbreaking and 99% of the fans how?
4. This is a nice one. And that there is more to how we can do it is actual news worth hearing about.
5. This is not exciting or important without knowing the details. And I still have not heard a good reason for it being kept secret. It is not like we are negotiating with the IRA for hostages or something.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
I have heard examples of other cases
But I do not think they are really reasons. I gave examples of other cases as well.
It is what it is. I really do not care, and doubt I will when I see the constitution. I am just saying that the idea that there is a constitution should not really be exciting since for all we know it could say we can no longer have beer and are required to buy a 5 dollar milk arriving at our seats. Without seeing it we do not know so I do not get the point of even telling us let alone getting excited about hearing it.
Our club is supposedly different and different in a way similar to barcelona. Great. Whoopee! Maybe some day I will see how this is all important.
But I see I am in the minority… so whatever.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
If you don't care...
You sure are spending a lot of virtual energy acting like you do.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 15, 2011 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions
As for the Supporters Summit
It had the largest turnout ever for said event. Was live webcast for the first time, and will be from now on. The logo and slogan created here were used for Toronto, and will be for LA.
Several of the initiatives discussed then are now league policy, most notably the idea that every club should have a single point of contact for away travel, as well as consistent security and traveling tifo rules.
Part of why those things were implemented was because the League discovered that they matter to more than just supporters, but had not seen that until Seattle. This was only able to happen because of the organization structure of Alliance, Council and Supporters Groups.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
How was the organization structure
the only way for that to happen. Explain that and you might have a story worth getting excited about.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Wow...
Not exactly sure what you’re hoping to get out of all of this…
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 15, 2011 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Not sure either
Also not sure what you all get trying to convince me the unknown is super awesome either.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Dave seems to think is awesome.
Do you trust him?
by Aaron Campeau on Jun 15, 2011 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I am sure he thinks it is awesome.
And yes I trust that is true. What I am not sure of is if we agree on what is awesome in this regards.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Not trying to convince you of anything
I honestly could care less if you’re excited. Your sense of entitlement is amusing tho.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 15, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I do not feel entitled to anything
I am just not excited till I see the details and do not see any harm in releasing details and find the lack of transparency counter to the general ideas behind democracy in sports. But if the Sounders do not want to share till the have their lawyers look at it for two months, I could care less.
I just won’t get excited in the meantime.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
Something tells me...
You care quite a bit or you wouldn’t bother telling us how much you don’t care. But, I digress…
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 16, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
using that theory
I can then conclude that you care how much I care about not caring? :)
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
A Modern Day Fable
This past fall I won my fantasy football league. I always wanted to have a playoff pool — I thought it would be fun to keep the weekly banter going through the full NFL season. So with my league winnings I seeded a playoff pool. I gave everyone in my league the option of buying a good team, or randomly being assigned one of the remaining teams. Ten of eleven league members happily joined my pool – some buying good teams to increase their odds, and others taking one of the leftover teams for free.
The exception was man named Mr. Greenberg. Mr. Greenberg complained about the my deadlines. I wrote a long note and did my best to accommodate his situation. Mr. Greenberg then complained about having to buy a team. I wrote a long note explaining that it was optional, and acknowledge that while not perfect, it was a fair pool. Mr. Greenberg then complained about pay-outs. I then decided that Mr. Greenberg didn’t need to participate in my playoff pool.
And the morale of the story – the giver of a gift horse only has so much patience.
Postscript – Mr. Greenberg was randomly assigned the Green Bay Packers in the ‘leftover’ drawing. His pick was reassigned to another league member. We will joyfully remind our friend of this irony until the day he dies.
by InternetCharlie on Jun 14, 2011 8:43 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
It was nice of you to give him the details
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
we see eye to eye on one thing
it’s not really news until you see the details. I recall how MLS got us all pumped up in March/April for a ‘big’ announcement the next day. There was much speculation, and then, thud they announced the All Star Game was in Red Bull Stadium. yawn
Dave is definitely blowig the horn of optimism on this, and I’m optimistic because my expectations are low (a $1 return on $0 investment is good, no). It seems that you’re generally pessimisitic on the whole concept…to each his own opinion, soon we will see the constitution and we may still disagree.
Don’t pull a ‘Garber’ on this one, please.
by InternetCharlie on Jun 15, 2011 1:48 AM PDT reply actions
A little less cyncism is warranted here
Dave Clark is on the Council Committee so he should have a very good understanding on what is in the document even if he can’t share the details. I’m inclined to believe him if he says there is some real meat in the document. If there’s one thing I’ve learned as a reader and writer at SAH, is that Dave is not someone who is going to hype-up something just for the sake of hyping it up.
Hopefully it is all wonderful and great.
I envision something more along the lines of viewer submitted questions to presidential debates. Does it really change the questions asked or do they end up just finding a viewer that asked the question they wanted to ask to begin with? The end result is people feel more involved but the end result is the same. I fear the results of this sounder thing will be similarly rigged to allow the ownership to do as it pleases under the pretense that it is actually listening to the fans.
But one thing I probalby not emphasized enough is I do hope my cynicism is poorly placed. I hope it truly is revolutionary and great.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
I agree with both points
I am not excited till i see the details and anything in the details is great from the 0$ investment perspective.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
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