Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Trialists, Cap Room Options And The Eight

Sigi Schmid will get to see plenty of new faces in practice, but these are unlikely to be difference makers.

Seattle Sounders fans are going to get hammered with trialists and rumors over the next month. The lead up to this Summer's window is going to be fast, furious and ideally fortunate. Adrian Hanauer has some cap room to play with, a DP slot available, and MLS has slightly higher respect than it did four years ago. Unlike other sports, the MLS team here in the Emerald City will be connected with some of the top names in the sport. Already we have seen three trialists brought in, each in different stages of their career.

Cillian Sheridan is looking for playing time and the opportunity to grab more attention from his national team, while his contract holders in CSKA Sophia need to cut some payroll. Myron Samuel has basically done everything he can in the semi-pro Caribbean realm and at the age of 18 looks likely to make the next step in his career climbing the ladder. Sammy Ochoa once was able to turn away from MLS for the more lucrative lands of Mexico, but is now free and can reconnect with his former Youth National Team Coach.

Sigi addressed the changing nature of trialists at practice today;

Obviously we continue to look at players and so forth. Cillian [Sheridan] was an option for us as a big forward, had been brought to our attention so we figured it would be a good chance to look at him. He has a good pedigree, played for some good teams. Sammy Ochoa is a player that obviously I have known for a while having seen him play youth soccer in southern California, I had him on my U-20 team, when he became free and went out of contract we decided to give him a look.

Samuel and Ochoa were in camp still on Tuesday. But the trialists are not likely to be the game changers. They are the guys that need a longer look. The game changers are going to be those who are certainly talented, but will cost money. They don't need a trial. They just need space on the roster, cap room and a contract.

That's where things get tricky for the current roster, as only three players meet the conditions of over 24, three years in the league, largish contract and not absolutely necessary in the Starting XI.

Star-divide

Joshua Mayers at the Seattle Times laid out the situation of Pat Nooan quite well. His 96k salary is high for what we've seen from him as a strong leader on the Reserve side who can manage the game from the midfield or forward. The other two players who could just be cut to open up significant cap and roster space are Erik Friberg and Leo Gonzalez.

Cutting either would aid the team in adding significant talent as each makes 110k. But both are internationals who were recruited directly to the Sounders. A straight cut would likely effect the future ability to attract talent on a long term basis. That leaves trades to open room for more than just a DP and a trialist or two.

Chris Henderson says that other teams are interested in Seattle's Centerbacks, but as I remember last year being hollow in the defensive spine is a significant problem. So for Seattle to create cap and roster room past just adding a DP level talent and one other regular the choices are to cut starting caliber players, or trade from depth. Hanauer will make the play for one, at most two, of "the eight" and may add a trialist or two, but it is doubtful that the trialists are the difference makers in League play.

Poll
How would you create extra cap space?
Cut Noonan
411 votes
Cut Leo and/or Friberg
15 votes
Trade a centerback
9 votes
None of above
25 votes

460 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 50 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

It's hard to overlook the fact that Leo has been spending time at CB in the reserve games.

That makes me think Adrian is leaning toward trading one of the Hurtado/Parke/Ianni troika if need be.

I also cut Noonan for sure. I think there’s too much talent at MF (even with Zakuani being injured) for him to be a significant contributor, and his own health is too much of a question mark for me.

by The King of Norway on Jun 15, 2011 7:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Interested in where

this comment was coming from:

“But both are internationals who were recruited directly to the Sounders. A straight cut would likely effect the future ability to attract talent on a long term basis.”

Are you saying that somehow their failure to secure a place on the roster is the Sounders failure or that all players coming from Central/South American somehow believe it’s their manifest destiny to be starters in MLS? Or something else entirely?

For the record, I don’t believe it makes a ripple of a difference. Leo is an older player who is essentially in the twilight of his career. Erik, on the other hand, has just had a hard time with niggling injuries, illness, etc. I still believe he’s a solid addition to the team and just needs a bit more time (and health) to find his place on the team. But if he got cut, I still don’t think it has any relation to the Sounders organization. Players get cut all the time. Even really good ones.

Anyway, I digress. Would like to hear your thoughts on this.

by swansuite on Jun 15, 2011 7:53 AM PDT reply actions  

The cases are slightly different

Let’s start with Friberg. He was certainly brought in to be a starter, as he is 8th in Minutes played and in 13 of 16 matches (starting 11). To not just lose his starting role but to be cut for cap purposes would be a significant slap in the face. It is also one that I do not expect the club to do.

For both, the unique structure of MLS changes the nature of being cut. In almost every other league in the world if they were cut they would get paid through the year. Since they don’t meet the 3 years in league and over 24 rule that would not be true in MLS. There may be some kind of severance to help with moving costs, but that would be it.

That could harm potential relationships with future players, because it is a stark reminder of how different MLS is.

But, for Seattle to add more than one major player it must involve significant cuts or trades.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jun 15, 2011 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I really can't see Gonzo or Friberg being cut

Gonzo especially. We do not have a lot of depth at LB. He was our go-to guy up till this season, and behind him was (what we assumed) was a shaky backup in Wahl. Somehow this season, Wahl has exploded onto the scene. Now if he overtook the Gonzalez of last season who was getting burned left and right, and couldn’t catch up with anybody, I would understand. But Gonzalez was playing VERY well early on, and I was surprised to see Wahl even get the nod. So to me this is a perfect situation at LB. You have Gonzalez playing great. You have Wahl playing greater. That’s a solid starter and a solid backup. And between the two, they only make somewhere around $160k I think. That’s a pretty good buy for two excellent players.

For Friberg, I assume this situation was presented because it is an option. I do not expect him to be cut. He is a good player who earns exactly what he should earn, IMO. The FO might get lucky down the road and find another Rosales-quality player making almost nothing, but in general I think Friberg is performing at the level of his salary.

Noonan, man that poor guy. Never got any love from anybody. Here’s an example of a guy who’s not earning his salary level. Injury prone, getting older, and perennially on the reserve team. Time to move along I think. It’s funny, because I really liked Vagenas and was sad to see him go, but Noonan I don’t think I’ll give a second thought to. I do hope he goes elsewhere and finds success to whatever degree, but Sigi and Co. have a team to build and I don’t think he should be part of it.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 15, 2011 8:38 AM PDT reply actions  

Not sure it's that easy

I’m not so sure we can cut Noonan, Leo, or Friberg. Under the new collective bargaining agreement, players earned some victories in the “guaranteed contracts” area. I suspect that even if we cut one of them, their contract is guaranteed through the end of the season and will still be a cap hit. I think all 3 will be on the roster at the end of the season unless we can work a trade for one or more of them.

I believe this is why it was so important that we cut N’Kufo before kickoff of the first game of the season. As I understand it we were actually slightly over the cap limit before we cut him. In doing so, we gained back a significant part of the $335,000 cap hit (not all because, remember, I think we were over). I also believe that we have not yet received the extra allocation dollars yet for playing in the CCL. If we combine what we got back from N’Kufo’s cut and the new allocation dollars, I suspect that we will have enough to cover the cap hit for a new DP, and possibly one or two minimum salary players.

Another option would be to split the ~$350,000 among 2 or more decent players giving them $100,000+ each and leave the DP spot unused. I am less of a fan of this approach because I believe we need an outstanding, DP-caliber target forward if we have any hope of making a run at the Supporters Shield in the latter half of the year.

by K61 on Jun 15, 2011 8:47 AM PDT reply actions  

CCL allocation dollars

I just did some diging. It appears that we have not yet recieved the allocation dollars for the CCL yet and we won’t unless we qualify for the group stage. My level of interest in the Panamanian team we face in the preliminary round just went up by a factor of 10.

by K61 on Jun 15, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Noonan signed a 3-month contract at the beginning of the season

see here

He wouldn’t be ‘cut’, he just wouldn’t be resigned. He could also be resigned at a lower salary.

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Jun 15, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Isn't there some sort of minimum for a guy at his age and with years in the league?

I don’t know what I’d equate it to…maybe like a journeyman or something? He’s not really making a ton of money right now for a veteran of the league. Or can he theoretically drop down to the minimum?

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 15, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure he can be signed to the league minimum

Not the minimum for developmental players, which is lower.

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Jun 15, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

First

Not all contracts are guarunteed. Players under 24 or with less than 3 years in the league are not guarunteed. This is per the new agreement. Noonan is listed because he has an option coming up (linked above).

Second Seattle was not over the cap when Nkufo left. But as a result of the ensuing moves (Rosales, Noonan) are right against it. We have also had Adrian say to us that there are chances/room for a DP + 1 other, there isn’t need to speculate.

This was an exploration of how to get even more talent, as well as a reminder that most trialists are going to be about min. salary types. They are unknowns. Knowns don’t need long looks. They have been seen, those are the 8. Trialists likely fill out the bottom of the roster.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jun 15, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Right

So Friberg turned 25 in Feb, and Noonan and Leo are over 30. Whatever contract length each of them have, they’re all guaranteed, so cutting is not an option.

According to the Player’s Union web side, Noonan’s getting paid $96,000 guaranteed. If Noonan’s contract is really just 3 months, then he’s way overpaid. Are we really paying him that much for 3 months of service?

Frustratingly, in comparison, Rosales is getting a league minimum $42,000. I assume he’s working on a full year contract?

by K61 on Jun 15, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

You missed the or
Players under 24 or with less than 3 years in the league are not guaranteed

by Brian Floyd on Jun 15, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ahh yes

Missed that. So we could cut Leo or Erik, but I don’t think we should. The only way Noonan goes is if we trade him or his contract really is 3 months.

I voted non-of-the-above because the only valid choices in the poll are to trade a centerback or cut Leo/Erik and I don’t think we should do those. We’re going to need all 3 CBs in the latter half of the season with 3 competitions to compete in (and hopefully do very well in). Leo and Erik are not great, but they’re solid rotationals and their salary matches ($110,000 each).

Trading Noonan, Leo, or Frieberg might be a good move if we could pull it off. I have doubts that there would be interest in anyone other than Leo however.

by K61 on Jun 15, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, Noonan's contract is three months. There's no doubt about that.

And ask yourself this: Would you rather have Leo, who is no longer starting quality on this team, or the chance to put that money toward something useful? Would you rather have Friberg, whose skill has been far overvalued by the fans, or money towards a target forward? There’s ways to maximize that money instead of hanging on to players that aren’t getting it done.

by Brian Floyd on Jun 15, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Unless we're bringing in another fullback

Leo is a great option to have around, even if he’s not starting currently. I also think that Friberg is worth keeping around. I’ll agree that he really hasn’t lived up to expectations, but I still think he’s a good back-up and has the potential to get better.

If those guys are stopping us from getting a DP, then yeah, I think we should seriously consider trying to trade one or both. But per Adrian’s comments, I don’t think they are stopping us from doing that. I think we should definitely cut Noonan since it would take an unbelievably bad run of injuries and cards to get him time with the first team and I’d rather have a younger player who could be improving and waiting his turn in that spot as opposed to Noonan, who’s definitely on the downswing of his career.

by Nevtelen on Jun 15, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Re: younger players

If we cut Leo, we still have a GA guy who could fill in for him as backup. I have not seen Tetteh as a defender yet, but I’m willing to bet he is not a big step down from Leo.

by agtk on Jun 15, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Leo is fine as a defender.

His issues come when he’s caught out after pushing forward too far.

by Aaron Campeau on Jun 15, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

We're actually stacked with reserve LBs

Wahl seems like the consensus #1 right now. Behind him are Leo and Tetteh. Scott can also play LB and did so for the USL Sounders. His versatility across the back-line is probably Scott’s greatest asset to the team right now. That’s plenty of cover at the LB position.

Depth at RB is the more pressing concern right now, IMHO. I would love to have a young, fast RB that can backstop Riley. Just on the soccer merits, I think it would be worth it if we could trade or cut Leo to acquire a young RB.

Personally though, it would be a pretty hard blow to cut a guy mid-season who had done a lot for the team. Especially considering that’s he’s not making a ton and has a young family to support. Maybe they can swing some kind of arrangement where he joins the front office staff for the rest of the season as a consultant.

by Dizzo on Jun 15, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have never seen Tetteh play so I won't judge him

but Scott as LB? Seriously? You just said in your next paragraph that we don’t have depth at RB!

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 15, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Scott is fine as a 3rd option fullback

Scott’s strength is his versatility. He’s passable in short stretches and I have no problems with him as added cover across the back line (RB, LB and CB). But we’re in trouble if Riley goes down with an extended injury.

I’d like to have a young,fast guy the team can groom as the attacking RB of the future. A homegrown player like DeAndre Yedlin Would be great due to the added roster flexibility.

by Dizzo on Jun 15, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I guess when I hear everyone complaining how awful he is at RB

I just assume he is pretty awful everywhere. We are absolutely in trouble if Riley goes down, because Scott is not the answer. Neither is he the answer as FB or LB. He is a body on the team we can use in crisis. Perfectly nice guy I’m sure though.

by chrisperry1983 on Jun 16, 2011 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

To Brian's point, it's not about one DP

It’s about the best allocation of scarce resources possible.

If cutting Friberg and using his salary/roster spot would bring back a better return, the team has to investigate that option. If they can do the same with Leo or Noonan, they have to do that as well.

The front office wants what we want, to get better this year and in the future and I believe they will explore all avenues that will make that possible.

by CMC_Stags on Jun 15, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This describes what I was thinking

Don’t look at it as cutting x, y, and z for one DP. Look at it as DP + something. That something could be one, two and maybe even three solid players. I’m not talking world-beaters, but upgrades of some kind, whether it be comparable skill for a lower price or just better skill period.

by Brian Floyd on Jun 15, 2011 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I get the feeling another fullback is coming.

And even if it’s not, there is Tetteh at left back, and he will probably begin to see playing time this summer.

by Brian Floyd on Jun 15, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is what I'm hoping for as well...

I don’t want to get into “rosterbation” as our friends at LL call it, but I think all of us would love to see the following in some order:

Upgrade at fullback (preferably on the left)
Upgrade at Target Forward (preferably DP quality)
Goalie of the future (Marcus or otherwise)
Addition of speed on the wings

If the team wants to do all of those, they currently have only one DP slot, limited allocation money, and limited cap room available. To address most of those areas, the team needs to get the allocation money from qualifying for the group stage of the CCL as well as freeing up salary via trade or cuts.

by CMC_Stags on Jun 15, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Like your list but different order for me

I’d put a high-caliber striker at the top of our list (a nod to the lack of scoring by our forwards this year). I’d say a right fullback would be a higher priority than left (just pointing at depth issues).

We definitely need speed on the wings as well.

by ABTsportsline on Jun 16, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure Noonan's salary is actually

$96k/year prorated over 3 months. Otherwise he would be making DP money, which certainly would have set the internets ablaze with fury already.

by agtk on Jun 15, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

We would only be paying half of $335K for a DP at the middle of the season.

I read an article where Adrian stated we actually had a little bit of room even with N’Kufo’s salary… That would put us at more than $375 I would think. So that means we would pay ~$167K for a DP, and still leaves us with more than $200K left.

Also, I have to think there is no way that we could/would have started the season like we did with N’Kufo on the books as long as we did if we were actually over the cap leading that far up to first kick. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

by soundersfcfanboy on Jun 15, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did we pass on Sheridan?

He wasn’t in camp, and Sigi used past tense “he was an option”.

by Czazall on Jun 15, 2011 9:16 AM PDT reply actions  

He was brought in for a 7 day trial

Is still under contract, and couldn’t be signed yet. His agent would be making a mistake in only shopping him to one team.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jun 15, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

If we do want him later does it get odd with discover claims?

or do we own first right of refusal as long as we keep him on our list?

by Czazall on Jun 15, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

First right in MLS

The way Chris Henderson described it, we’ve got a list of a certain size that we keep full with names and as long as a player’s on it we get the first MLS rights to them. Not sure if there are additional details like whether there’s a max time someone can be on the list or something.

At this point I’d be confident that if we’re really serious about Sheridan, he’s on our list well into the summer transfer window and he’ll be ours if we want him and he signs a loan deal with MLS.

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Jun 15, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Who ever has the first claim on the list has first rights

we do not know if Seattle has the earliest claim of M551

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jun 15, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

If only we could find a way to free up $200k by making a single move...

Unfortunately no one except for some Sounders fans are interested in a 6’4" target forward who last scored an MLS goal 20 months ago.

by MicahRowe18 on Jun 15, 2011 1:58 PM PDT reply actions  

I'm going to my first match against the Rev...

…and said player is smack dab on the front of said ticket., I groaned when I saw it.

by Timm Higgins on Jun 15, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah!

Why was a Jaqua cut not an option?

by Milo1 on Jun 15, 2011 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

He has more than 3 years in the League

and is over 24

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Jun 15, 2011 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm afraid

The Baby Giraffe is ours for the season.

You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. We are all around you, there is no escape.

by 108Ultra on Jun 16, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Been a Jaqua defender from the start...

but if he can’t find his form by the end of this year, I would not be against letting him go in the offseason. Since his injury issues in 2010, he hasn’t found his form. I still think he could play in the future, but at his salary I don’t think we can/should afford waiting beyond two years.

by ABTsportsline on Jun 16, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can someone suggest a link

Or could one of the writers do a post that clearly outlines all the arcane MLS cap/roster rules, ideally with a simple glossary (e.g. allocation, discovery)? It’s my understanding a fair bit of this stuff is purposefully hid by the league. Still, S@H has instructed me in a lot of it but only by osmosis and assumption – I’m still not sure I understand allocation properly! It’d be nice to have a crash-course type entry that could be referenced by newbies (at least to MLS roster rules).

Also, this whole post makes me desperately wish MLS would let teams excell and eliminate a bit of the parity by scratching all this stuff and just have a salary cap. Oh, I dream…

by Nick_in_Seattle on Jun 15, 2011 4:22 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2011-mls-roster-rules

That really does have everything. A few things are obfuscated by the league for competitive purposes (like the discovery lists), but that is about as complete of a list as you are going to get. If there are still things that confuse you, I’m sure a few of us could answer a specific question.

by agtk on Jun 15, 2011 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for this!

The only real question I have, then, is about “off-budget players”. How is this not a runaround of the salary cap? It says nothing about them having a maximum salary or affecting cap space, and says they’re all eligible for any matchday roster? Why can’t a team with more money in the franchise (cough SSFC cough) just put, say, ten $150k players as off-budget and create a deeper or stronger side?

by Nick_in_Seattle on Jun 20, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Sounder at Heart is a blog about the Seattle Sounders FC, with occasional forays into Democracy in Sports, Roster Management, Soccer Statistics and Life in Puget Sound. We are not the actual Sounders blog.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Twitter-icon_small
Fredy Montero with magic at the death vs. the Whitecaps part 1 (animated)
Small
On "fake turf" in Seattle, 2012 edition

Recent FanPosts

2334846872_d5a0828b89_small
The Friendly Confines of the Clink
Small
Sounders go after Drogba, yes or no?
Img957001_small
Substitute +/- Ratings
Twitter-icon_small
Fredy Montero mesmerizes Whitecaps' Joe Cannon (animated)
Acerimmer_small
Eddie Johnson Scores on Michael Gspurning? Yes indeed!
Paraguay_small
Sounders #awaysupport
Small
Andy Rose!
Small
What's our line-up vs. Dallas?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Sounder at Heart exists on Facebook - Like Us

Follow SounderAtHeart on Twitter

Sounder At Heart on Twitter

follow me on Twitter

Follow the rest of us on Twitter

Sounder At Heart (Site Feed)

Sidereal (MLS stats)

Jeremiah Oshan (top 10 soccer journalist on Twitter, Baby!)

Aaron Campeau (Villa, Mariners)

Dave Clark (beer, specfic, mideast)

Brian Floyd (all Seattle sports)

Nos Audietis (podcast stuff, snark)

Chris Coulter (photos, academy)


Managers

Tiny_dave_with_scarf_small Dave Clark

Oshan_small Jeremiah Oshan

Seattlesoccerscene_small sidereal

Nos Audietis Crew

Avatar_small Aaron Campeau

254350_1953423628277_767159_n_small dano_seattle

Authors

Img_0349_small malcontentjake

Devlin_small sum anon

Small dennyoffside

Ravelry_logo_small Abbott Smith

Special1tv_o_small Timm Higgins