Seattle Sounders at Chicago Fire Recap - Nil-Nil Draw Merely Average
by Dave Clark on Jun 4, 2011 8:13 PM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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The sum total of special moments is similar to the sum total of quality referees in all of soccer. Small, and not nearly enough for either side. The Chicago Fire were expected to come out emotionally excited for at the beginning of the match, and if that was them excited their poor fans will be disappointed. Sigi Schmid's Seattle Sounders FC were their most effective early with a few balls that were too heavy and a few shots directly at the keeper.
Neither Sean Johnson nor Kasey Keller made highlight reel saves in this match, though both were tested a few times. Instead this was a match that flowed quite well and rarely but that one moment on the end of a build-up. Seattle's best example came in a passing series late in the second half that touched almost every player and about half with clever passes to keep it going, but ended with an attempted Fredy Montero chip when the keeper was not off their line.
Dominic Oduro created some opportunities against Tyson Wahl but the Fire midfielder did not have the runners, or the runners didn't have effect at his best moments. This was a match where a team right about average in MLS went on the road facing a poor team and got a draw. No one earned the result. Neither coach was made mistakes, as much as the players didn't make the plays. In middle of the season this one ponit seems a disappointment, but it is fair. To quote Keller said in his TV post-game on KONG, "It could have been two-two or nil-nil." And that's what it was. On a first watching there is little to take away from either hope or critique.
Schmid tried a few different things, but to little effect. Mike Fucito was used as a right wing for about a dozen minutes, but the play at that point didn't head his way. Lamar Neagle had shots on goal, but both were saved. Montero was not the spark off the bench, and the passing without Erik Friberg (did not travel) was still too long even on the slower grass of Chicago.
Zero-Zero is fair, but disappointing none-the-less for the Sounders faithful as the target this season is so much more than middle of the road. All three trophies are still within grasp, but not a one seems imminent.
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Definitely disappointed to see us start June this way
Good news is that now we face the 2 teams from Canada. If we dont win both, I’ll be seriously worried
Frustrated, but mostly with MLS refs
The ref ROBBED Montero of a goal. I HATE Vaughn – genuine HATE!
For grass, that pitch was fast, too fast for us. The story of this game (aside from despicable reffing) was our lack of getting on the end of some beautiful passes. Our lack of speed is really hurting.
We also really looked gassed about the 73rd minute.
My only “Sigi” complaint today is putting Montero in late – after Fucito is out of gas (energy). It’s great to see them up top together, but not when Fucito’s greatest asset (hustle) is pretty much spent.
Neagle had a good first half but was pretty bad in the second half – especially on his passing.
Rosales was good. Ozzie as well, mostly. Evans helped.
Parke and Keller though got us a point.
It bears repeating, We’ve really got to start getting on the end of our last pass!
In some cases that last pass was way to hard
No one was going to get it.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Maybe "some",
but we also just we’re out of position at times as well as just too slow to reach it. I/We miss Zak.
It wasn't
guaranteed that Montero would have scored if the ref had not called the foul.
Of course
not it really depends on how Montero decides to do with the ball.
Hey now
He also did a decent job of selling it.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Jun 4, 2011 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
It'll never happen...
Not to get all logical on you, but it’s impossible get on the end of your last pass. If you get on the end of it, it wouldn’t be the last pass.
by InternetCharlie on Jun 4, 2011 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
So if the play ends with a tackle that strips the ball there was no last pass?
Or when a player runs the ball out of touch on their own there was no last pass?
Or when a player shoots there is no last pass?
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Sounder At Heart
The last pass...
is supposed to be the one that sets up the shot.
by central_scrutinizer on Jun 5, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha
You may want to diagram that one out Charlie
"All three trophies are still within grasp, but not a one seems imminent."
Probably the best way to sum up the Sounders’ season thus far.
As a fan, I feel better now than I did a year ago. Does that mean we’re in a better spot to finish in that same fashion that we did last season? Perhaps, but as with any sport, there’s no guarantee.
I’m still uneasy about the way this season is panning out. Yet, I still remain optimistic about our circumstances; we’re not in our best form, and we’re still playing relatively well.
There are still many more matches to be played.
I just watched the MLS match highlights package for this game
It was bizarre. They showed Segares’ challenge on Rosales three times. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them show a no-call that many times on one of these highlight reels. It’s almost as if they were trying to send a message to Terry Vaughn. Listening to the Chicago announcers was so telling. It was one of those instances where the announcers get awfully quiet because they know a home team player got away with a bad foul and they don’t agree with the call, but they have to be careful because they don’t want to be seen as overly critical of the home side.
The Chicago announcing
Was actually pretty good throughout. MUCH better than the league average.
"But who would listen to Little old me anyway?"
-by thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Jun 4, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't have MDL...
…but after watching the NY-COL highlights, I can say I’m actually sorry for NYRB fans. Whoever their color commentator is, he’s disgracefully bad at his job. It made me want to mute the highlights.
This week in MLS
Home team: 4 wins, 6 ties, 0 losses.
More perspective
7 of 18 MLS teams have no road wins so far this season.
It's huge
MLS teams apparently have a 16% or so winning percentage on the road.
From what I gather, your average home side will pull 1.5 PPG and your average road side will pull 1.0 PPG.
Home Field is essentially like starting the game down half a goal
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Sounder At Heart
Everyone's been talking about how terrible SKC must be...
…but they have 6 points after 10 games, and 6 points is the exact number of point that road points earned over 10 games this week. I don’t expect them to be world-beaters or anything, but I think a lot of fans might be surprised how terrible their team looked if they went on a 10-game road bender.
It's still pretty bad
0.6 PPG is pretty poor compared to the 1.0 PPG mark that an average team will get. This weekend was something of an outlier; last weekend was also an outlier in that 4 road teams picked up a win.
It’s still very possible that SKC will turn things around, though
It's not much of an outlier
Get two goals here or there, and you’ve got an extra win and another tie, suddenly you’re at 0.9 PPM. 6 points vs 10 points over 10 matches is essentially a meaningless difference. My main point isn’t so much that SKC is good, it’s just that we don’t hardly know anything about how good they are at this point, and we certainly don’t know that they’re one of the worst teams in the league, which is how they are commonly viewed.
0.6 might be poor compared to average....
…but the average road team isn’t playing ten in a row on the road. They’re going to get to play ten in a row at home later (or near enough), and they could be pretty tough going then. I think they have a shot at the playoffs even.
All fair
I think it’s absolutely right that there’s a bigger disadvantage in playing all those road games in a row as opposed to having them sprinkled throughout the season. There’s probably a similar effect when playing as many home games in a row as SKC will be doing later on, one reason why I don’t think it’s wise to count them out just yet.
His ankle was still an issue
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Sounder At Heart
Thanks Dave
Without Fernandez and him it makes a difference, not to mention Montero slumping.
I think we need to face some facts
This team isn’t built to dominate. We were a good expansion side, but we have a limited upside. Our possession game has been declining steadily since Ljungberg left. We don’t even get good shots to miss on now. At best we are a middle of the pack team with no ability to make a run in the playoffs.
In American Football they have a saying “If you have two quarterbacks that can start, you don’t have any quarterbacks that should start”. I think our offense fits that description right now. Fucito should get a few more games, but I’m not sure he is a big upgrade on Roger or Jaqua at this point. Montero doesn’t seem to be figuring out how to play as the guy getting the attention from the defense. Our midfield is a mess outside of Alonso. We struggle just to bring the ball up the field to the 18.
I like scrappy blue collar players as much as the next guy, but you can’t build an offense around 5 guys being scrappy.
We don’t have size, we don’t have speed, we don’t have great tactics, we don’t move well off the ball and we can’t pass. Other then that, we are pretty good.
This is the same team, minus Nkufo and Nyassi
That went 10-2-3 to close out last year’s season. That’s a 2.2 PPG pace, better than what the supporter’s shield winner that year got. It’s also a better record in the last 15 games of the season than any other team in the league. The Sounders were the best team in the league in the second half of last season, and while Nkufo undoubtedly hurts and Nyassi probably contributed more than most of us gave him credit for, the talent is still there to be an elite team.
Minus more than just Nkufo and Nyassi...
Alonso, Riley, Parke, and Keller were the only starters from the game last night that were also starters on that second half squad last season. So really, minus Montero, Zakuani, Sturgis, Ianni, and Gonzales too… That is ALL of the attack and half the defence. Big difference.
"We've got 'Seattle Sounders' on our jersey. We are the Sounders. We are the heart and soul." - Sigi
Yeah
But Wahl’s an improvement over Gonzales, Evans is an improvement over Sturgis, El Presidente is an improvement over Ianni, Montero won’t be in the doghouse forever, and we’ll have Zakuani back next season. Without Zak we won’t hit those highs this year, but we still have the talent to be an elite team.
I do agree with you
Just pointing out the drastic difference between this current squad and last year’s. The individual players are better yes, but because of injuries and poor form they haven’t played together for any significant amount of time as a unit and they aren’t playing in the system this team was designed for. The talent is evident in that they are still getting results.
"We've got 'Seattle Sounders' on our jersey. We are the Sounders. We are the heart and soul." - Sigi
average is about right...
a very average team that plays average soccer and is on a PPM pace to finish right about mid-table and sneak in to a lower playoff seed… we can’t blame injuries any more: this is the team we have. We play stifling soccer now, and basically kick the ball around hoping that the laws of parity will turn enough results our way, like they did against RSL last week. Utterly uninspiring and feckless…
but hey, average teams won the last two MLS Cups, because MLS engineers their seasons to be mostly meaningless…
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
Salt Lake wasn't an average team
They were a good team that underperformed during the season.
Why should we ignore injuries? This is not the team that was designed, and a tie on the road isn’t a loss.
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Sounder At Heart
Not to mention N'Kufo
I agree with you, why should we ignore injuries. The Sounders depth is keeping them in the playoff race. With the losses the Sounders have had this season, most teams would be at or near the bottom of the standings.
To me, 2009 RSL is a great reason why the regular season isn't be the end-all, be-all of who is best
Only three teams in the league had a better goal differential in the regular season than RSL. In the playoffs they earned 8 points over 4 games against better-than-average league opponents. And the difference between top-of-the-table and barely-in-the-playoffs was only around 8-9 points that year, which just isn’t a lot.
Having a balanced schedule means everyone has an equal opportunity to grab points (well, except that teams with international players are at a disadvantage), but it doesn’t mean that the team with the most points has done so much better than everyone else that we know they’re the best team in the league.
Playoffs are very necessary in an unbalanced schedule
as was the case in 2009
And will be the case in 2012 forward.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
who said ignore injuries?
There are plenty of options available now, unlike mid-May when we were just missing too many attacking players to really be any good. Zanuani and OBW have been out for a while and there has been plenty of time ot adjust to their absence and come up with an effective attack. The point is we play a narrow, stultifying brand of soccer, and have become pretty relient on set pieces to generate chances. I’m not going to sit here and call it anti-football because that is a stretch, but I am not encouraged right now…
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on Jun 5, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Except, he kinda did call it "anti-football"
Unless I’m misunderstanding what you menat by calling them the ‘death of football’ last week. I think you are way overstating how negatively this team plays. In the first half, at least, I saw an attacking team that was an absolute joy to watch.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jun 6, 2011 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why should we ignore injuries...
I think I’m with Dave & Coug1990 on this one.
Here's something that I find interesting
Even after calling the team “average” it is barely true
By PPM they are 6th, good for the 1st Wild Card with 1.40
In their last five matches they are tied for 4th most points with 8 only behind LA, Dallas and DC.
By goal differential they are 6th of 18
They have the 5th best road record by PPM
They have the 5th best goals agains per game, but only 12th best goals for per game.
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Sounder At Heart
Also the team wins more than 50% of duels
Maintains more than 50% of possession
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Sounder At Heart
and...
compared to where SSFC was at this point last year, we’re in 3rd WC at this point. Not high-end data, but look at the Last 5 in MLS’ standiings. We’re a palindrome. Every other team is experiencing some kind of trrouble (NY for ex.). Interestingly, SJ seems poised for a rise in WC. And I think other sleepers are mid—table right now (DC for instance). Sometimes it’s takes a run-up until a team is hitting on all cylinders.
Hell, if we were in the East..
…we’d be tied for the top of the table. Not that it really means anything, but none the less it’s something to think about. And we’re what, 4 points off the pace with FCD. As long as we keep them close..it’s going to be a bumpy road no doubt.
A point is a point, and road point at that. Ask Portland how their road points are..
I have them seventh
After RSL, LA, Dallas, Philadelphia, NYRB, and P***land.
But still: we’re hanging in there, thanks to defense — we’re 5th in goals against, behind RSL, LA, Philly, and Dallas, but a rather putrid 14th in goals for, better than only Columbus, Vancouver, Toronto and punchless New England. Kansas City is outscoring us, 1.20 to 1.07. That’s bad.
And the minutes since our last goal by a forward is now, hmm, 532 (six games minus Montero 8’ against Columbus).
by Fnarf on Jun 5, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My spreadsheet deleted Portland
which makes me both laugh and cry
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Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jun 5, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Both teams are on pace for 48 points
next tie breaker is head to head
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Sounder At Heart
Oh, and the stat that correlates most to points on the table?
Clean Sheets
Defense literally wins Championships
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Sounder At Heart
I find it interesting
That the Sounders have such good defensive stats despite posting an only average number of clean sheets. Our GAA, as you say, is near elite, but our 4 clean sheets in 15 games is merely average. It seems like the Sounders are very consistent defesively: they won’t shut you out as often as other great defenses, but they also won’t let in three goals anywhere near as often, either. In fact, we’ve given up more than one goal only twice this season (and we still haven’t given up more than two).
I wonder if that consistency is hurting the Sounders a bit in the standings, given the fact that a win gets us three points and a draw just one. A more streaky D might turn a few of those 1-1 draws into 1-0 wins and a few of them into 2-1 losses, which would give us more points on the whole than our draws.
All of our injuries have been to attack-minded players
I get that people don’t want to blame injuries for everything, but the one thing that our injuries would most reasonably have caused so far is troubles on offense. (Plus Nkufo’s departure.) Last night we started Fucito/Jaqua/Neagle/Rosales/Evans essentially as our attacking players when in February we would have expected our attacking players to be Montero/Nkufo/Fernandez/Zakuani/Evans. I guess I’ll complain about the offense when everyone gets healthy (including Montero losing his cast, but not including Zakuani, since his return is unrealistic) and we still have trouble scoring goals. We’re essentially playing our B-squad offense right now, though.
but none of that jumps out at you
like I mentioned last week, I don’t feel like this team has anything that they do particularly well. nothing about this team is great, and with their aforementioned tactical shift towards a more stifling style of play, it all points towards mediocrity…
...that's MISTER Keller to you!!!
by malcontentjake on Jun 5, 2011 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Too many ties in a diluted league.
Teams are “fighting” not to lose I think, and just get into the playoffs. Sigi is “happy with a tie” which makes me sick – but is understandable in some ways.
I wish we would recognize the Supporters Shield winner as the true champion of the league and allow no more than 8 teams into the playoffs. My gut tells me this would “motivate” for more wins – possibly. Also, the refs in this league KILL scoring because they allow so much mugging to go on.
My ranking system -based on winning percentage and 3 game trends (momentum) puts SFC at 8th overall, 5th in the west. We have to do better.
Sigi is happy with a tie on the road
and probably a 2+ point average at home
Any ranking that includes winning percentage, thereby ignoring ties (a key element in standings within soccer) has issues. Ties matter, especially when they replace losses.
The only difference between the MLS Cup winner and the Supporter’s Shield winner is a star on the uniform. They both get trophies. They both make the Group Stage of the CCL. Only one gets home field advantage. Both can hang banners. I don’t think a shiny star matters that much.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Though only 5 teams at most are in the running for SS already
16 in the running for playoffs, which is why MLS does it
Nos Audietis
16 teams playing 'not to lose"
because it’s easier to take a lottery shot at the MLS cup than fighting for the Shield?
The problem with fighting for the Shield
is that it’s over for 80% of teams by June, regardless of whether they want to keep fighting or not. Then what?
We don’t have European places or relegation to keep the rest of the table interesting.
Nos Audietis
True dat
I guess Im happy if we all just “appreciate” the SS winner for what they truly are – CHAMPOINS
That's fine
Personally, I think 10 playoff teams was too many (8 was great) and even with the changes with the wild cards this season the playoff outcomes are still too random. We should play series instead of one-and-done games. And the SS should be given more respect. But I wouldn’t scrap them completely.
Nos Audietis
Definitely
We should have a longer playoff format in order to drown out a bit of the statistical noise that can happen when you’re only playing four games. Thankfully, the imminent demise of the balanced schedule offers an opportunity to have the postseason take up a greater share of the limited space on the league calendar. I’d suggest a pseudo-return to the best-of-3 series days: play all 3 games, winner on aggregate advances. Higher seed gets 180 minutes at home, while the lower gets only 90 (no away goal rule, obviously). This smooths out the randomness present in the one-and-done series, while rewarding regular season performance, unlike the home-and-away aggregate.
I've never understood why it's okay for the middle of the table to be boring..
…if the bottom of the table is exciting. Once you’re out of the relegation zone and not winning the SS, then who cares? With playoffs, you’ve got teams fighting for playoff spots and fighting for home-field advantage in the playoffs. Why do I want my attention drawn to the worst teams in the league? Shouldn’t I rather watch better teams?
by ubelmann on Jun 5, 2011 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not sure how much more emphasis on winning we need
Aside from the 3 points for a win, one point for a draw.
I share your confusion at being happy for a draw. There are obviously times when you just have to hold on for dear life and come away with the point, but many other times when overly cautious coaches won’t throw everything they have into the attack. Three draws is equal to only one win and two losses! If a more aggressive strategy will turn a few of those draws into wins and a few into losses, you’re coming out ahead of the game.
Interesting point..
Three draws is equal to only one win and two losses!
but on the flip side you’ve given up six point to opponents instead of three.
And that's why teams are so cautious the first game in the World Cup
Especially in a small group, you lose more than a point if you lose rather than draw, since you’re giving up three big points to another team in your group. I actually wonder if 3-point wins have really encouraged attacking soccer. With 2-point wins, teams would have less to lose by pushing harder for the go-ahead goal.
My "system" does take losses into account
Admittedly, it is weighted mostly to measure a teams ability to win and also the teams recent momentum. Im not interested in standings until the year is done. Im trying to get at how hungry a team is and where theyre headed. I have SJE and CHIVAS just ahead of us based on that.
Ties (i do factor them in but give them less weight) tell me about the standings but especially this year, not a lot about a teams quality or hunger.
Now that other leagues are done
Is there any resource for looking at available players for us to pick up in the transfer window?
I would guess we must already be striking up serious conversations with many players if we’re to have something signed late July.
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