Seattle Sounders Transfer Rumors: Lack Of Immediate Action Nothing To Fret Over
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 12, 2011 6:00 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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With the opening of the international transfer window about to open on Friday, there's a distinct possibility the Seattle Sounders will not be announcing a new Designated Player before then. As best as we can tell, the rumored African DP who is supposedly set to be announced this week, is not someone being tied to the Sounders. The Vancouver Whitecaps have a press-conference scheduled for Tuesday morning, presumably to announce their newest DP.
Meanwhile, the man who still seems to make the most sense for the Sounders, Prince Tagoe, is reportedly practicing with Hoffenheim in Germany. I get the sense this Tagoe remains a possibility, but it seems highly unlikely that he'll be here in the next few days.
I lay out this scenario mainly because I have a feeling that if the Sounders don't have a new DP locked up by July 15 that there will be a vocal portion of the fan base that simply loses their minds. They will be calling for Adrian Hanauer's head. They will claim that all the promises were empty. They'll claim that this team just doesn't want to win bad enough.
All I'm asking for is a little perspective. Let's keep in mind that this team is playing as well as they ever have in their history. Over their past 34 matches, in fact, they are 19-6-9, a mark that would almost certainly win them the Supporters' Shield if it were to be accomplished over one season. They are currently riding an eight-match unbeaten streak that has featured three road wins, a couple comeback victories and results against the leaders of both conferences.
This team could definitely use reinforcements, preferably a game-changing forward to pair up with Fredy Montero, but it doesn't need just anyone. The Sounders need the right player. If that means we need to wait a few more games, I'm perfectly fine with that.
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You are absolutely correct
people are going to lose their minds when the Sounders don’t make a big announcement in the first few days of the transfer window. I have to say that taking 13 of 15 possible points over the past few weeks is beyond satisfactory.
by MicahRowe18 on Jul 12, 2011 6:11 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Mrisho is the man...
Watch this kid…he is amazing…he will do good for Sounders…and what a bargain we got him for..who needs the Prince?
when did we "get" him.
I thought he was in on a trial.
by Jo-Jo on Jul 12, 2011 8:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd think it would be all about his performance
Which we should all get to see against Manchester United
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Definitely agree
While I am anxious to hear who it might be, the team is doing well, it looks like OBW will be back soon which should only make us more solid and will tide us over just fine until we find the absolute perfect match.
depth at forward
We’re in something of an enviable position with recent play. Montero has been fantastic the past month, Levesque seems to be finding his role nicely, Fucito has shown he can be valuable… and all this before OBW comes back. Add in Jaqua and… yes, it would be lovely to have a big lights-out scorer but…
…gotta be the right guy.
Not that enviable
Montero has just broken out of his scoring slump (and who knows if it’ll stick), Jaqua has not shown any ability to get it done this season, Levesque is what he is (and a strong goal-scorer isn’t what he is), Fucito has a lot of promise but hasn’t yet delivered much in MLS games, and OBW will need time to work himself back into form (and it’s possible that he might not be a consistent scorer until next season, even though he was looking good in the early going).
There are a lot of places where this team has quality, tested depth – central defense, the wings, central midfield – but striker isn’t one of them. It’s actually really impressive that the team has scored as much as they have without much contribution from the forwards.
by Nevtelen on Jul 12, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
yes we need a striker
but I think my larger issue is which one and why? A month ago I would’ve killed for just about any striker. Since then, we’re seeing not only scoring but a team that (appears to) have finally adjusted to life without Zak.
To me, that begs questions. Do we just get the best possible striker? Do we get a player who fits the mold for the rest of this season – i.e. more of a role player that keys off the midfield lead? Or sign a player that perhaps makes more sense with Zak back (and presumably fit) that may not pay real dividends until next year?
Think long-term
OBW may come back and be excellent; but we don’t know. Jaqua hasn’t been in form for nearly a year. Levesque is more of a utility player. Fucito hasn’t yet had luck finding the back of the net.
I would think for the future, not just now. This team has had scoring issues in the past, so it’s not like this is a new “thing”. I do think chemistry is huge, however. As we’ve seen with Nkufo and Ljungberg, it really can make or break an acquisition.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Patience...
Soccer is about patience, build up, and form. Picking the next DP should be no different. I have full faith in the FO that has already gotten us Rosalas and Friberg this year. Go Sounders!
Me too (patience)
If Hurtado is out for an extended period of time (even a hyper-extension would be problematic), I wouldn’t be surprised to see the team shift its gears and look at some CBs as well.
We have plenty of CBs
The problem is finding someone of Hurtado’s class. I don’t think we could do it in such a short time. We have Parke and Ianni which is a good pairing for MLS matches. After that we have Graham, Wahl, Scott and Leo. All of whom have played CB this year. None of which I’m super confident about at CB.
I'm actually coming around to Scott at CB for depth
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me clarify
a DP CB. Someone considerably better than Hurtado, Parke, OR Ianni. We do not have plenty of CBs…. behind those three, there is mostly mediocrity. I’m talking about the kind of CB who regularly scores on set pieces and distributes the ball out of the back in a way that no one (perhaps except for Ream) in MLS is currently doing. A guy who is simply unbeatable in the back in the same way that Chad Marshall is (yes, he does get beat occasionally, but it’s always a surprise).
DPing a CB would be an incredibly terrible idea.
by Brian Floyd on Jul 12, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Especially
since we don’t have a defensive problem since we are only giving just under a goal a game. Get a forward that can score and create space for montero will turn those loses in draws and those draws into wins.
I definitely hear you, but I think you're
limiting it to defensive presence, as opposed to offensive presence. A good CB starts the attack…. a great one can make that one pass that turns a change of possession into a scoring opportunity. He’s the guy the defense of the other team is most afraid of (next to the target forward) on dead balls. I’m simplifying, obviously, but I do believe that this type of player doesn’t really exist in MLS, yet I see it nearly every week in leagues around the world. These type of guys are invaluable.
We do not have depth
At central defense. We need FOUR CBs to compete on four fronts. Hurtado, Parke and Ianni are good, and Scott will do in a pinch, but if we lose one guy to injury we get dangerously short-handed at the back. I’d love to see more depth at central defense.
Remember, defense wins Championships.
by sammysounder on Jul 12, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
So could Roger
in a pinch. That’s not what I’m talking about. Quality.
Taylor Graham?
No team has 4 CBs that are good enough to consistently start in MLS play. And any team that would is either extremely lucky with Academy/Dev signings or really, really dumb.
Nos Audietis
Oh
and talk about Adrian’s head is just…… plain…… absurd. Anyone calling for his dismissal is automatically on my “no perspective” list.
by swansuite on Jul 12, 2011 7:41 AM PDT reply actions 7 recs
Very good perspective
Couldn’t agree more. All the rumors at the end of June were very exciting and it’s been hard the last two weeks as it feels like our hopes of a big name signing are dwindling, but it’s very good to be reminded that this team is in fantastic form right now with OBW set to come back soon.
Take it slow
I have full confidence in Hanauer’s ability to procure talent, he’s shown that already this season. That said, I’m more concerned about the Sounders signing the wrong fit, at worst getting into another N’kufo-like situation (it’s not like getting a six month striker that pulls the team together would be so horrible though).
I'm not sure about that
a 6-month loan to get a superb striker and make a push for the SS and MLS Cup this year sounds like a great idea to me.
by Tohoya on Jul 12, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well hes not african so its obvi not him..
by BuckleySounder on Jul 12, 2011 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually
the rumor with Cisse that he would be coming to Seattle which well is a moot point now.
On the fence
I think your post makes great sense, Jeremiah
My only concern is despite our record, we still have a glaring problem of forwards scoring goals. While it’s great we have such a dispersal of goals sourced from different players all over the pitch, we still don’t have that striker that is always a threat. I realize Montero just scored two goals, but let’s not pretend that’s an accurate sample of his play throughout the season.
I wouldn’t call for Adrian’s head under any circumstances at this point, but I would be disappointed if we didn’t address the striker position in this transfer window. Whether or not it’s on the first day of the window or not…. for me I guess that depends who we ultimately sign.
Also have RB depth concerns
which could be addressed in this window absent DP status – but I know we’re close to the wall in terms of both roster and cap space.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
We should have room for two signings
The word is that there’s room for a DP signing and one signing under the cap. If I had my druthers the DP signing would be an experienced target forward and the other signing would be a young RB.
That's *exactly* what I'm hoping for, actually
I will vote you in on the alliance/council/whatever immediately! :-P
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
This is being greedy...
But I would love to see the DP target forward and a young RB as well as a GK for USOC/CCL/next year. I just don’t have confidence in Boss.
Though I realize that a trade would probably be necessary to have the cap room to do all of that.
Yea its likely that a trade might happen
however it is also possible to have all 3 with out making a move to open more cap space which the young RB would have to be a off-budget player making the league minimal.
Don't forget about roster spots
I don’t think we could add 3 players without cutting or trading someone, but admittedly I don’t know the current Sounders roster status either.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
They currently
have 29 player with 1 off budget spot open. Put Zak on the IR and cutting boss (if we were to get a new GK this transfer window) would open 2 more spot.
Let's not pretend that the season-to-date is an accurate depiction of how the rest of Montero's season will play out
In the grand scheme of things, you can’t judge a striker on how many goals and assists he has over half a season, or even how he looks. Even over a full season, there’s a huge variance. If Montero goes out against Colorado and goes for a goal and an assist, then over two weeks he’d go from a PP90 that looks way below his career norm to a PP90 that is right at his career norm. And Montero’s arm has probably been bothering him more than some would admit and as that heals it wouldn’t be unreasonable for him to score more.
And judging by form or whatever (which is inextricably tied to how many goals the striker scores whether scouts would admit it or not), is just as much of a crapshoot. Who was calling Montero’s point-streak last summer at the beginning of June based on how he looked in the games?
I know this comment is on a bit of a tangent, but I just wanted to stress that even though the numbers provide us some insight—and having some information is better than having no information—we can’t be confident at all that the last fifteen games provides us with a good basis to project what is going to happen over the next fifteen games, for any individual or the team as a whole.
Disagree
Yes, past performance is not necessarily evidence of what will happen in the future – but you’re telling me that we can’t use it for basis on future projections? I strongly disagree.
While I’m overall positive on Montero and his contributions to this team, I won’t assume he will find his form for the remainder of the season. But I was never talking about replacing Montero – I was speaking of adding a DP striker to compliment him up top…. So perhaps you misunderstood my post?
Back to the forward discussion – Fucito has zero goals in league play and isn’t even making the 18 these days. Levesque only has 2 on the year, and to be fair they were from exceptionally poor goal-tending in one match. Jaqua? No explanation really needed. Montero, to his credit, has five goals in 21 matches – but that’s as our #1 scorer and our star player (thank god our midfield is so good at scoring!) Last year Montero had a great run late in the year, and surely it wasn’t hurt by the addition of Nkufo. Adding a high-quality striker not only improves our chances of scoring goals, it also frees up Montero a bit so he’s not constantly double-teamed. Everyone can win in this scenario.
I’m also thinking for the future here – to include CCL. You think Levesque is starter-level in CONCACAF play?
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm saying it's not accurate, not that we can't use it
My comment is aimed at your implicit suggestion that Montero’s performance so far this season ought to change our expectation of his contributions for the remainder of the season from what our expectations were at the beginning of the season. He’s barely below his expected output in terms of raw number of goals and assists maybe 3-4 below expectation at most. At the same time, he’s shown no deterioration in skill, he’s put plenty of shots on frame, and in your opinion has played with low quality strike partners.
Fredy Montero is who we thought he was. It would have been great if his results had been a little better, but even good strikers score so rarely that we have to accept that a ton of the variance in performance over periods of 15-20 games is just dumb luck.
As far as needing more depth at striker, sure, I don’t like seeing Levesque in the starting eleven. I just think that dismissing Montero’s performance on Sunday in favor of emphasizing how he’s done in 11 appearances overstates how much information those 11 appearances give us. You don’t just start throwing out 10% of an already sample size for no good reason.
Perhaps you're mistaking my point
I’m not slagging Montero or his play at all. I am only saying I’m not confident his goal scoring will be enough for us to challenge the remainder of the season, CCL play, etc.
I’m wasn’t using this space to talk about what Montero does on the pitch – I’m only speaking goals here. Obviously Montero’s importance to the team goes beyond scoring goals, and I’m the first to admit that. But scoring goals wins games, and Montero has not been consistent there. I’m not speaking at all about PP90, comparing to what he did last year, or any of that.
Plain & simple…. goals from forwards.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think you're quite seeing my point
My point is really that no forward is as consistent as you are expecting Montero to be. Montero averaged 0.43 goals/90 in ‘09-’10. At that same rate, he would be at 6-7 goals in ‘11. He has 5 goals now. That’s as close to being on his historical pace as he could be without actually being exactly on his historical pace. I’m not about to say that Montero is a Golden Boot lock, but he could have more goals than anyone else in the league over the balance of the season and I wouldn’t be surprised. He could also score 3-4 goals from now until the end of the season and I wouldn’t be surprised. No strikers are so consistent that they will always be at 7-8 goals every 12 games, and there is no evidence that Montero is any more or less streaky than any other forward in the league.
So I am talking about goals from forwards, and I’m saying that based on his entire body of work, we can conclude that Montero can give this team goals, and there is no reason to worry about his consistency.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying
But I wasn’t talking about Montero. I referenced him in citing we need another striker, which was the intention of my post. You kind of steered us more toward Montero ;)
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Basically
I’m saying we need a second striker, even acknowledging nothing is consistent and we can’t expect goals week-in and week-out from any particular player – Montero included.
Your point is precisely why I think we need a second striker.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
hopefully we someone maybe not in the next few days be rumored but atleast when the transfer window opends because i know that we all like to see and hear about new DPs coming to the sounders. I mean which DP wouldnt want to come here, yeah i mean the rain might shine people away but we are a winning team so what do we got to loose.
I'm generally on board Jeremiah, but ill pick at it a bit
My general operating assumption is that any DP signing would be designed to elevate this team, likely through a target forward, from just good to great.
The idea that we can sit on our hands implies that the fixtures immediately after the 15th (while we wait for the mystery signing[s]) have less value because of their location in time. I want to win a Supporter’s Shield so I want to be great tomorrow. The game against the Rapids has just as much value as Chivas in October.
In fact, our entire schedule is as “meaningful” as it will be all through August. I do think time matters. I just struggle to believe at this point the staff needs more time to do its diligence—but if they do, it is best to be patient
I think the point is that while the Front Office knows that all the games count the same to the SS
As well as the importance of the allocation dollars from making it to the group stage of the CCL…
As well as the the USOC games…
Waiting a week or two to find someone who is a 90%+ fit for the rest of the season is a better choice than getting someone now that is a 70% fit for the rest of the season and the length of their contract.
You're assuming that anyone signed on July 15th wouldn't be fit, though
I don’t know if the two need to be mutually exclusive.
I think if we wait beyond the 15th to announce a signing, it could be indicative of collapsed talks with targeted players. There might have very well been honest negotiations with Cisse and/or Tagoe’s people but perhaps something fell through at the eleventh hour? That would be a good reason for not announcing a signing on the 15th.
Current fitness level should have little to do with dates of announcements though, I would think.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
When I wrote "a 90% fit"
It was in the framework of their fit within the time: playing style, chemistry, age, background etc.
I was not referencing “fitness.”
What i'm assuming
Is that I’d rather the Sounders make sure they get the guy they want, not the guy they can have signed and delivered on July 15. If those two things aren’t mutually exclusive, obviously sooner is better.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 12, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
i agree
all we need is a rushed signing that may or may not work.
Is it a negotiation thing or something else?
Being more familiar with how other sport leagues handle free agent windows I would have thought that the Sounders have done their homework, have made a prioritized list of frees and can officially hear back from them on the 15th. Is there something preventing them from contacting the player and beginning the process ahead of time? Or are the players weighing their offers and therefore delaying the “signed and delivered” part of the process?
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
Per Adrian (via TNT)...
Q: Do you expect anything to be announced on Friday?
AH: I wouldn’t want to speculate. We’re actively working on some alternatives. But I’ve done this enough to know that it’s not done until it’s done. And all the rumor and speculation and process accomplished and verbal agreements – not of it means anything until there’s a signed document from all the parties involved and U.S. Soccer has approved it, and the visa process… So not to dodge the answer, but we’re working on it and obviously we’ll announce it when we announce it and it’s done.
Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/soccer/#ixzz1RulYRiZR
You'll Never Sail Alone!
by SoundersRiot on Jul 12, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
They could announce the signing now
They announced Nkufo outside the window. The Canadian teams did their last three DPs that way.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 12, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah okay that makes more sense
Obviously the player can’t officially “join” the team until the window opens and the US Soccer and work visa issues add a layer of complexity.
I will be patient and only ask for Adrian’s head if we don’t have a free agent by this time next week (joking).
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
That's what I guess I'm really wondering about
Even though the window isn’t open, there’s no reason they couldn’t announce it early (as Vancouver did). The only reason I see this not happening is (as Adrian said) the deal isn’t done yet.
As far as I know there aren’t black-out rules with negotiating with players, right? So no reason that the negotiations couldn’t have happened long before July 15th. That is what leads me to believe perhaps the Sounders #1 target or wish-list guy didn’t pan out and now perhaps they’re going to plan B. If that is the case, I’m ok with the wait… but it would still be nice to know why.
And I’m with you Jeremiah – I’d rather there be patience and the correct player signed, but I’m also acknowledging that doesn’t necessarily mean if you wait, there will be a better fit.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
The window only pertains to the player appearing in official matches with the team
All other avenues including practices, friendlies, dinner and a movie, are acceptable if the player wants to. The deal can be done prior to the window opening, but the player may not appear officially until the window opens. We made good use of this last year in integrating Nkufo early with the team, which seemed to work out well.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Jul 12, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree that the Sounders are a victim of their own success
Because of our huge fan base, standings, and deep pockets, I think many in the MLS and not just the Sounders faithful are expecting a big signing by us in this window. E.g. there was a recent article calling us and Portland the Manchester-Liverpool of the US. If we don’t sign anyone, and don’t win everything, I agree that “they” will be calling for Adrian Hanauer’s head. And really, if we sign a huge guy like Drogba for mucho $$, he certainly wouldn’t bring the team down and would completely take our profile even higher. Can you imagine taking a Drogba around to our Concacaf away games?
That said, at the least we need to sign an exploratory attempt with some recognition like Fernandez, or the natives will not be happy.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 12, 2011 10:25 AM PDT reply actions
My point exactly from Comments in The Sun
This is in response to Fergie’s comments on the MLS today. I know it sounds trite, but the world is watching us.
“The MLS fans accept MLS because they are dying to simply go to matches, but deep down, they all watch the EPL and Serie A and two Spanish teams. Deep down they know that’s where the real top-level talent is.
What MLS has to decide is: Are they willing to invest enough in players to make it one of the top leagues on the planet? And if so, how much more can they monetize and fill stadiums that are pretty much playing to 17-25,000 a night in some most markets?
Americans are terrific investors and they like to see the best….but until MLS decides that it wants to compete among the world’s best and it wants to fight to keep top American, it will be a diversion at best.”
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 12, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
On that point, 5 EPL teams have Americans as the majority owners
Arsenal (Kroenke, also owns the “Denver Nuggets of the NBA, Colorado Rapids of Major League Soccer, Colorado Avalanche of the NHL, Colorado Mammoth of the National Lacrosse League and St. Louis Rams of the NFL”)
Aston Villa (Lerner, Cleveland Browns of the NFL)
Liverpool (Fenway Sports Group, Boston Red Sox of MLB and 50% of the Roush Fenway Racing NASCAR team)
Manchester United (Glazer, Tampa Bay Buccaneers of the NFL)
Sunderland (Short, no other pro holdings)
The problem with this argument is that no one really knows what the current appetite for US soccer is
MLS could tell the owners to go crazy and borrow a bunch of money to bring in top-flight talent, and borrow a whole bunch of money to build bigger stadiums, and then sure, more fans would come and teams would generate more revenue. The rub is that they don’t know how much more revenue they would generate. They could spend $20-30B to improve the league, but then only realize an extra $5-10B in revenue and the league would fold. It would be a fun ride for a short while, but it might not be sustainable.
So sure, MLS fans wish that MLS had EPL-level talent, but no one knows if there are enough fans in the US, and enough advertisers in the US, who are willing to pay EPL prices to justify buying all of those players. The smart way for MLS to invest for growth at this point in its life is not to buy players at the peak of their talents, but to tap into its vast pool of talent, spend money on scouting and developing US youth players, and reap the rewards in 10-20 years.
Not safe to assume every US soccer fan watches EPL, Serie A, etc
There are plenty of us who enjoy all levels of soccer, but I have no intimate attachment or reason to follow any particular team in another league.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How could anyone be calling for Hanauer's head?
He’s the only reason we are where we are. Without him we wouldn’t have been to the playoffs in year one, and wouldn’t be in second place now. Whether we sign a DP or not is almost irrelevant.
by Agent_J on Jul 12, 2011 10:34 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Anyone can call for anything
However, it’s foolish of them to call for Hanauer’s head. He’s the guy behind the scenes that’s made it all happen.
We can not call
for Mullans head. :)
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
we can call that he scores an own goal with his head
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Jul 12, 2011 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't call sports fan (in general) very level headed
I don’t think there are many in this community that think that way, but there are plenty around that do.
What if they don't sign a forward at all?
If it’s true they spent their time up until now going after the likes of Tagoe and/or Cisse, and those deals fell through. What if they couldn’t line someone else up by the end of the window? I think I would be okay with that, so long as they used the cap room they do have to address other needs, but I bet it would still disappoint a lot of people.
It might be smarter to do nothing
The team obviously has a good thing going right now. Bringing in someone else might ruin that chemistry and formula. I’m not saying I’m against adding a new person, but I’m going to be fine either way.
And thats the risk they'd take
But unlike last year, we’ve got a playoff appearance pretty much tied up, so a Nkufo-style signing may be totally counter productive.
and like the previous
2 years we may end up with another early exit though. We can’t continue to depend on our midfielder putting the ball into the net. The fact that Montero is the only forward with more than 2 goals is kinda depressing.
by gstommylee on Jul 12, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like I said, I'm not against a DP
But this team is better than those of the last two years. We’re scoring on a more consistent basis, and came back twice this last week. This is a mature team.
Montero’s stat isn’t surprising when you consider our two projected starters at the beginning of the year aren’t with the team right now (Nkufo, White)
It won’t be the end of the world if we don’t get a top striker, is my point.
Sure it may
not be end of the world but when we are going into open cup and the CCL having another quality Forward will help especially if the team wants to make it out of group stage.
by gstommylee on Jul 12, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
For scoring goals?
Unfortunately I don’t think that’s the case. Having the gift of being able to score goals is rare enough, and that gift usually comes with a premium of a price tag….Unless you’re talking about Barbara at St. Etienne (halfway serious)
But I’m with gstommylee here – if we want to be serious competitors in CCL, we need striker help.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Remember when we were beating Monterrey in Mexico?
They kept Suazo on the bench for both games against us… he went in after it was pretty much over at the Seattle game (I’m assuming the manager did that for the Monterrey fans), and was on the bench in Mexico. We were up, their stud striker went in, and suddenly we were down.
You are absolutely right: Those guys cost money.
You do all the work for us, Honey Badger, and we'll just eat whatever you find.
DP for a summer signing
cap hit is 167.5k and it also gives Seattle an option to improve the team in another spots vs signing someone that may require a 300k contract.
If we want a game-chaning target forward
We’re going to need to spend DP cash. There just aren’t enough good ones either in MLS or available on frees. If we want a good non-DP target forward we would probably need to trade with another MLS team which would be a bad deal for us. The good ones are all locked up and it would take a very valuable player of ours to get them free.
Excellent point
No one in MLS is going to make a reasonable trade with us for a valuable forward. That is something we would have to import.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 12, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
or at least we'll
have to give up something of similary value in return. I think there’s plenty of talent out there, but getting strikers from MLS isn’t a good way to build.
by sammysounder on Jul 12, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
much like inbetween 2009-2010
We made very few changes and started of w/ 16 points from 16 games. We have cap space and team needs. No reason to not acquire talent unless they just don’t fit but there are plenty of players available.
by Colin Johnson on Jul 12, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Given that the Sounders have a ton of money to spend and a pretty glaring weakness
I would be absolutely furious if they chose not to add talent due to concerns over chemistry.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
There'd be other good reasons of course
What if White comes back and plays as well as he was before the blood clot, freeing up space for Montero to work his magic? Then what do you do with this expensive DP that has never played in this league before and hasn’t gelled with his teammates yet?
Play him, because he's probably lot better than OBW?
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
White and Fucito was doing into a great combo during
the pre-season games. That may benefit us more in the CCL than in MLS.
What are our glaring weaknesses?
I suppose depth at RB is one…
A goalkeeper for next year…
Are there others?
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Goalscoring from the forward position
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Aren't we in a good position because we score from many positions?
As much as I’d love to have a guy that we can hold up and say “hey check out our guy that scores 20 goals a season”, I think it’s better to have lots of people scoring. It seems to be working for us.
by chrisperry1983 on Jul 12, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Sure, but how many times this season has it felt like a poacher could have turned a nerve-wracking 1-0 into a comfortable 3-0?
Point is, there’s room for improvement and said improvement can be made without sacrificing any of the club’s current talent.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I see what you are saying
but as it stands, we are in 2nd with goals scored at 28, behind RBNY’s 34. My thought is, given our depth and our seemingly large well of players who can score for us, do we need to focus on someone offensively? I’d rather figure out how to stop leaking goals here and there. Or figure out our keeper situation.
That said, if Adrian and Sigi have ideas of what may happen offseason (Montero/Jaqua/whoever leaving, for example) that could change things. But assuming things stay the same, I’d look for something defensively first.
by chrisperry1983 on Jul 12, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem is, it's far tougher to find outside backs that justify a DP salary than it is attacking payers.
Globally, there are fewer difference-making outside backs that most anywhere else on the field. If we could find a left or right back worth DP money I’d be right there with you, but that chances of that happening are really, really slim.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not necessarily saying we need to go get a DP in any position right now
We just need some good mid/upper-salary type guys. I’m thinking guys like Joel Lindpere, Erik Friberg, Luke Rodgers…these guys are high impact players (Lindpere and Rodgers moreso than Friberg, but Friberg works for the example) with decent yet doable salaries. Granted none of them are defenders, but the point I’m making is that these high impact decent salary guys are out there.
Rodgers came from Notts in the Championship. Lindpere from the Norwegian and Estonian leagues. Friberg from Sweden. I bet the Championship is crawling with these guys, and I bet the FO could snag someone at a very manageable price.
Also, I must have looked at older states, Sounders are 2nd with 30 to NY’s 35. We would be tied if not for that NY blowout of Toronto :)
by chrisperry1983 on Jul 12, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
A better example is Jan Gunnar Solli
He’s a converted midfielder from Europe in that mid-salary range. I would say he’s been the best attacking RB in MLS this season.
Think it's positive we are 2nd in goals
But having all your goals scored by midfielders is like having a forward lead your team in tackles. Sure it’s cool to get such production from other positions, but I don’t know if that is ideal.
Plus without serious threats at forward, it’s easier for teams to bunker against us. This is definitely a bunker league.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Above all, make sure the player wants to play in Seattle and the MLS
One who is prepared for the “physical” nature of the league. I have confidence that Hanauer will find the player that is best for the team, not the headlines.
And thankfully OB White should be back soon! I was starting to like his game before the freak blood clot.
by butterGlory on Jul 12, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Based upon AH's quotes today, it does appear they are up to something
For what its worth, based upon a personal conversation I had with AH at the season opening luncheon where I asked him if we were tight with any EPL teams, especially in view of Z and Alonso visiting Everton, he told me the Sounders were tightest with Chelsea. So if we are going large ticket, my money would be on someone from the Blues.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 12, 2011 11:17 AM PDT reply actions
What are our glaring weaknesses?
I suppose depth at RB is one…
A goalkeeper for next year…
Are there others?
really?
Montero, Levesque, Jaqua and Fucito aren’t doing it for you? We score plenty of goals. OBW’s soon back. Do you cut one of them to make room for an aging, overpriced star?
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Who said anything about aging and overpriced?
by Brian Floyd on Jul 12, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
people seem to be all drogba-gaga
and judging by the history of sounders at that position (i.e. Noonan, Nkufo)… just putting two and two together. Most of the time “young” and “able to hold the ball up” don’t go together, and if they do, they are playing in Europe.
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
nope.
but i’m arguing against a second-rate drogba mold, which i could see occurring.
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
and who
says we actually need to cut someone to make room.
Levesque is not a striker, he's a utility player.
Calling Montero a striker is also missing a lot of the point.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Depth
is useful when dealing with multiple competitions and in case someone goes out for several months.
Also got to remember
we have Zak coming back next year. He’s more or less utilized like a FWD. God knows his defense isn’t mid quality.
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Zak coming back
next year will is huge for our midfield but not our forwards.
No, those guys alone aren't doing it for me
I love the players and don’t want any of the aforementioned off the team. That said, the forwards on this team haven’t been scoring enough goals. Period.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 12, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
you sign a DP target man...
…that’s young, no way Jaqua hangs around. I mean, that seems fine to me, it’s just that I’d way rather sign a GK with the DP spot.
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
forwards are easier to pick up in future drafts
than a GK are. you can do the FWD by committee thing, you can’t with GK
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd take Sheridan over Jaqua
But the Sounders disagree with me….
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 12, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
i think if we cut jaqua we still have to pay him, and his salary counts still
so i dont understand this comment…yes it would be great in a different league but not in ours…(unless im wrong)
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Jul 12, 2011 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Sheridan issue
came down to money. I bet he wanted more than we were willing to pay.
by sammysounder on Jul 12, 2011 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
FYI
Jaqua practically got us into the open cup final last year. My issue is not so much with Jaqua its that he is taking up a 200k salary.
Oh why the hell would you waste a DP spot on a Keeper.
would you take shay given right now?
that’s why
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
no matter how good your 10 out field players are...
if you don’t have a keeper, you’re screwed. ask any arsenal supporter
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
And
having a great keeper means squat if our 10 field players are playing like crap.
You are
missing the point. The fact that a # of goals we conceded were based on silly turn overs and counters that even a great keeper may not be able to stop.
Why waste a DP on a keeper
where you can use it on a field player to reduce those silly turnovers and counters. A keeper is just as good as the players in front of him.
because next year we have ONLY BOSS
and that sends existential tremens through my already-nervous bones. it’s the most glaring need.
our team’s strength has always been the defense. build from the back and work forward. we can’t take the cornerstone out from under it and expect it to stand. simple as that
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
There is a middle ground between Terry Boss and DP goalkeeper.
I have faith that the FO can find it.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
agreed
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Jul 12, 2011 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I was never
against seattle bringing in a keeper hell i want marcus. But your talking actually using a DP slot on a keeper in which will never actually happen in Seattle or in this league any time soon. .
fair enough
i don’t think we’d get the chance with hahnemann. too many people in allocation order in front of us, and too few good GKs in tis league. hell, even circus coundoul looked good in this league
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
hell, sign manuel almunia
he’s a great shot stopper. he’d be one of the best in the league. he doesn’t have to make decisions, jsut stop that one shot that comes at him per game
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
As an Arsenal supporter
please, GOD NO! I don’t think my heart can take it.
by sammysounder on Jul 12, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Really
how many teams in front of us actually needs a keeper?
If marcus wants to play for seattle and Seattle wants marcus the league will make it happen.
by gstommylee on Jul 12, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
when he's national team quality
every team needs a GK
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
but not always at that price
MLS is a league full of affordable GK. The teams infront of us have more glaring weaknesses than GK and probably not willing to drop 200k+ in cap space on a GK.
by Colin Johnson on Jul 12, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
NY
does need a GK but they are 2 spots below us in the allocation order and they aren’t interested in marcus.
Indeed
Chivas philly, houston TFC chicago and SKC in exact order are the teams above Seattle.
All of them have good GKs
I don’t think they’d pick Marcus unless they were pretty sure they could trade him to us or NYRB for something valuable (allocation money or draft picks most likely)
Exactly
Although from the espn article with NY RB GM. I don’t think NY is not that interested in marcus. And have someone else in mind if there is any truth to that NY rumor
which teams dont really do that often
because like hanauer said, the league does whats best for the league, that would look super bad for the league…“we know you want him, but we want something from you first”
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Jul 12, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny that the day after you say that, RBNY signs a keeper as a DP
Of course I don’t agree with going DP on a keeper, but I think RBNY was forced to make a knee-jerk reaction.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
To quote Adidas
Looks like RBNY is “all in” on this season.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 13, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait!?
NY actually signed a Keeper as a DP. Good lord what a bunch of idoits?
Yeap
And while Rost has a great resume, it doesn’t scream DP level player to me. Still, Backe has done very well with his Euro signings so I’ll reserve judgement for now.
I just
don’t agree with using a DP spot for a keeper at this time. I just think they could have used it on another position like Defensive mid for example.
A keeper no matter what $$ he is making can’t stop every shot from going into the net if the rest of the team isn’t playing so good. I just think its a misuse of the slot is all.
I want Kenny Cooper
Does this make me a bad person and/or fan?
We need a striker. Portland isn’t playing him. Portland wants to trade intraleague to strengthen their team. Portland needs midfield/D, which we can swing.
I could be monumentally inaccurate or misguided here, but I think it would be a good fit (aside from the SEA/POR hatred). Thoughts?
by scottykimberly on Jul 12, 2011 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
said this during the match
then i washed my mouth out with soap. but it would probably work—it worked for sol campbell
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
If we did trade for him though, who would be the new Timber?
I can’t say there’s much of anyone in our midfield I’d like to see running around in robin-hood jerseys.
we wouldn't send them a glaring need
our DMs and CBs are too important
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Cooper is the same kind of player as Nate Jaqua
I do not have problem with him coming from Timbers, but I do not want another Jaqua on our team. I just do not get it why people love big forwards. We can as well add Peter Crouch too and start playing kickball with these three on our team.
he's more athletic than jaqua
which is the most common criticizm again nate
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Especially big forwards who dive
Nos Audietis
by sidereal on Jul 12, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
We love big forwards
Because this team went from terrible to best in the league when we signed Nkufo and he opened up a ton of space for Montero to play around in.
I do not think Nate or Cooper can go in the same sentence with Nkufo
Nkufo was very skillful for a big forward. He knew how to position himself for every ball, and his awareness on the field was outstanding. Nate and Cooper are more like big forwards that used to play in English league in 70’s.
They also make less than Nkufo
and have never quitted on a team
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 12, 2011 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I do not have an access to insider information,
but it was my understanding that was mutual decision. At least, that was presented to public.
From what I gathered Nkufo
was tired of getting beat up and Seattle was looking to get some cap space.
by sammysounder on Jul 12, 2011 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Mutual in the sense that the Sounders didn't want to keep a player that didn't want to be here
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 12, 2011 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reading this, I would say both sides are at fault
Again, did not follow up closely why he left, but I would say it seems there is a difference between his and Ljungberg departure.
He didn't want to work hard
He didn’t want to be a target. He wanted to be able to be a casual #10 and just take things easy into his retirement.
He quit
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 13, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I ran into Nkufo on the street several months ago
I never shared this story because it was insignificant at the time, but when I approached him I asked for a picture, he pulled back and said “Wait…. Sounders?” with caution and disdain. Didn’t want to take a picture with a Sounders fan. He started to turn away but my buddy jumped in and said “Twente – Eredivisie!” and he immediately smiled and then came back to us for pictures.
Long story short, he was very much not a fan of the organization. Whatever happened, he didn’t leave with a good taste in his mouth.
Knowing how SSFC operates, however, I can only assume the organization properly conducted themselves and this is just a player that realized the MLS wasn’t what they were expecting.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Portland fans seem to dislike him
so in that regard he is like a bigger levesque! We can just put some facial hair on him and call him a new man.
Scoreboards, not billboards.
Regular season, not pre-season.
The reason Portland isn't playing him is because
his form is piss-poor right now and he’s prone to diving. (Ok so the second part isn’t the reason he’s not being played, but it’s just another reason why I wouldn’t want him).
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I've been jealous of PDX acquiring Cooper since they signed him
I’d be absolutely fine with Seattle acquiring him.
by scottykimberly on Jul 12, 2011 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
though i don't think it would be a trade...
we wouldn’t let one of our defensive players go. we’d have to straight buy him, i think
by Kyle Ritter on Jul 12, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Giving them allocation dollars (only method of purchase in MLS) only
would be foolish, and could prevent acquiring other players. Allocation dollars are better spent buying down the cap hit for players than giving to another team.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Booooo
Let me live my dream.
(That was actually the straightforward answer I was looking for. Thanks)
by scottykimberly on Jul 12, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah ha...
From Mayers: Sounders GM Adrian Hanauer: “I would anticipate the team will not look exactly like it does today once the transfer window closes.”
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 12, 2011 1:12 PM PDT reply actions
Follow-up: "We've partnered with Great Clips to give everyone new hair styles."
by BrianL on Jul 12, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Please let #thetrialist
be first in that lineup.
by LoiteringWithIntent on Jul 12, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
We need a striker to beat LA.
The team is playing well now, no question. But, does anybody really think we have what it takes to break down the top defenses in the league? Dallas and LA have shut us out this year, and our goals at RSL this year came against 10 men. LA in particular, we just can’t seem to score against (USOC excluded, of course). We’re a team that’s had problems scoring in big games and scoring consistently through our entire MLS existence.
We should be measuring ourselves against LA, RSL, and Dallas because that’s who we’ll need to beat to win it all. I think to beat those teams, we absolutely need another serious threat to score up top.
You do realize...
That your basing this analysis on a sample size that includes all of four games, right? Even if you expand it to last season, it still is only 10 games, but then you have the issue of it not looking quite so “they can’t score” because the Sounders scored two goals against RSL and three against FCD.
What you’re really saying is the Sounders can’t score against LA, and that’s fine, but let’s not make it out to be more than it is.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 12, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like your sample size
But I actually agree with your point. In addition to the teams you mentioned, we were only able to beat NY because they were missing so many starters.
I think we’re a great team, but despite our successes I’m not confident we could beat a team like NY, LA, or FCD if they’re at 100%. The best teams should be able to beat any other team on any given day. We haven’t shown we can do that, despite our talent and depth.
So we’re nearly there. Need a few more pieces.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 13, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Fredy Montero
As much as I WANT to like Fredy Montero . . . and HOPE that his progress continues, I know what he’s done up until this point in Seattle.
He’s had flashes of brilliance . . . OVERshadowed by very striking stretches of bad decisions . . . and that ubiquitous lack of hustle and heart.
Seriously, who celebrates like he did last match AFTER blowing the game previous?!? I don’t understand that mindset.
Instead of trying to find someone to match up WITH him, why don’t we focus on ways to compliment those who DO contribute day-in and day-out?
Mauro Rosales up front is a nice fit. Put him anywhere on the field and he’ll make everyone around him better.
O’Brian White and Steve Zakuani are both GREAT strikers. Their injuries will heal. And they’ll both be better upon their returns.
Let Sigi play with a healthy roster . . . try and get something useful for the desired-and-obviously-talented Fredy Montero, and everybody will be all the better for it!
Fredy’s just not a good fit for the fans of Seattle. We don’t like “me” players. Cases-in-point: TJ Houshmandzadeh, Carlos Guillen, and Kendall Gill.
I trust the front office of this club. I know they’ll make the right decisions. Even if it means sticking with Fredy Montero. I got faith in you, Fredy. Prove me wrong. PLEASE!!!
GO SOUNDERS FC!!!
Interesting article and quote from Timbers' GM
Beyond chatting about Cooper potentially being on the trading block, their GM said this:
“The transfer window will remain open until Aug. 14 but the complicated process of signing a foreign player – traveling, scouting, transfer fees, contract negotiations – can be a long and arduous operation.
“It’s not a two-week process,” Wilkinson said. "For a player to be signed in July, generally they’ve been scouted well before that. You’ve done all your homework. You’ve worked out the fees, the contract and everything else to bring them in.
So, any Timbers roster additions and subtractions will most likely come through trades within MLS. "
http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2011/07/portland_timbers_looking_for_roster_help_to_improve_performance.html
Makes me wonder if we are adding international help with no announcements yet.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 15, 2011 10:32 AM PDT reply actions
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