Sounders Summer Break: Playoff Expectations
Dave recently discussed where we can expect the Sounders to end up at the end of the regular season. I'd like to take the next step and look at what the playoff match-ups would be and how that would affect Kasey's chances of lifting the Cup in LA.
The table in Dave's post contained three different ways of looking at where a team will end up: points per match (PPM), Graham's formula applied to a whole season's slate of games (x34), and Graham's formula applied to each team's remaining games (xFinish).
The Scenarios
PPM
If PPM is to be believed, this will be the playoffs:
Western Conference Qualifiers
Los Angeles Galaxy - SS
Real Salt Lake
FC Dallas
Eastern Conference Qualifiers
Philadelphia Union
Columbus Crew
New York Red Bulls
Wild Cards
Seattle Sounders FC
Colorado Rapids
DC United
San Jose Earthquakes
This would be an interesting scenario for the Sounders. As the top wild card they would play at home in their one-match play in against the Earthquakes. Also, if they won, they'd be the top surviving wild card, meaning that the other surviving wild card would face the Supporters' Shield winner. In all the scenarios, the Supporters' Shield winner is a Western team, meaning that if the Sounders advanced to the first round, they would go into the East and face Philadelphia home and away. Considering that the last two MLS Cup champions have been Western teams that crossed into the Eastern bracket, history would seem to be on the Sounders' side in this scenario. Particularly encouraging, in light of recent history, is that in this scenario the Sounders could only face the Galaxy in the Final.
x34
The x34 method says these would be the playoffs:
Western Conference Qualifiers
Real Salt Lake - SS
Los Angeles Galaxy
Seattle Sounders FC
Eastern Conference Qualifiers
New York Red Bulls
Philadelphia Union
Columbus Crew
Wild Cards
FC Dallas
Chivas USA
Houston Dynamo
San Jose Earthquakes
This scenario highlights the perversity of the MLS. Here we have the Sounders finishing one spot higher, but facing a much more difficult road to the Final. In this scenario, they'd face the LA Galaxy in the first round of the playoffs for the second straight year. Given the issues the Sounders have had facing the full strength Galaxy, I'd imagine that this would be a scenario that Sigi would just as soon not face.
xFinish
Finally, xFinish's version of the playoffs:
Western Conference Qualifiers
Los Angeles Galaxy - SS
Real Salt Lake
FC Dallas
Eastern Conference Qualifiers
Philadelphia Union
New York Red Bulls
Columbus Crew
Wild Cards
Seattle Sounders FC
Colorado Rapids
San Jose Earthquakes
Houston Dynamo
Very similar to the first scenario from the Sounders' perspective, except that they'd take on Houston instead of the Earthquakes. The logic is the same though: as the top wild card, their route through the playoffs would be Eastward, which could very well play in their favor.
The Bottom Line
Sports Club Stats has our playoff odds at 99.8%, which is obviously a good place to be. But all indications point to MLS continuing to be a textbook example of perverse incentives. In particular, as long as the Supporters' Shield winner is a Western team, the best spot for a Western division team to be is the top of the wild card heap. In the Sounders' case specifically, the top three Eastern teams are teams we've had success against in the past, and would certainly be more comfortable psychologically than yet another match up against the Galaxy.
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For the final few games,
To get the playoff spot we want, we should be playing mostly reserves and loaning out our best players to Everton.
but, we still need to finish higher then 6th overall...a
avoid open cup play in games. Which is totally possible to be 4th overall and get a wildcard spot still…
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
What I'm choosing to take from this is:
Supporters’ Shield or BUST!
Seriously, though, the playoff system would work much better if the number high level clubs were more balanced between the West and East.
Regional differences will always exist
Post-Donovan/Beckham do we really think that LA will be good?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Oh, I wasn't complaining. Just pointing it out.
On another note, how long has DC United been in a playoff spot by PPM? I guess I wasn’t paying attention.
They've been bouncing on that bubble with Houston and Chivas for some time
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
We have been somewht unlucky
The playoff format as it stands would be fine if the top 4 teams weren’t from one conference in the past few years.
Of course, they could have introduced a stopgap by temporarily moving Dallas to the East, rather than temporarily moving Houston there…
Probably...
It will be a different two players but I think their strategy will always be to have a couple top names in the world at any time.
And so long as they keep doing what their doing it appears that strategy works for them.
I'd rather not mail it in at any point
Even if it would help our playoff chances. Guess I’m just not wired that way.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 18, 2011 8:47 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
You say getting into the East is good...
but if the MLS Cup is a goal do we really want to play the LA Galaxy in a one off game on their field for the final? I say for that reason West is better for us where we’ll get a home and away series on aggregate with LAG instead of risking just 1 home game in the final. Plus you can probably count on more traveling sounders for a playoff in the west.
-Ben R.
I want it all
I think we can win the MLS Cup and we’ll likely have to play through the LA Galaxy to get it. I’d rather have one less game (the wildcard game) and play LA first than have to play an extra game and likely play them later in the final.
I think it's better psychologically
Right now, the big issue the team faces is the inability to win in the playoffs. On top of that, the team has problems with playing the Galaxy. I’d rather they not have to confront both at the same time. If they met the Galaxy in the Final after going through the East, that would mean they got through four rounds of playoffs, and would have killed off the “can’t win in the playoffs” problem. From there, they can tackle their problems against the Galaxy.
FWIW:
PPM corrected for current home-away games disparity
Western Conference Qualifiers
Los Angeles – SS
Seattle
Salt Lake
Eastern Conference Qualifiers
Philadelphia
Columbus
NY/KC (tie)
Wild Cards
Dallas
NY/KC
Colorado
DC
by Matthew on Jul 18, 2011 10:49 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
What does this mean exactly?
Are you looking at a team’s Home and Away PPM separately and then extrapolating that out over the rest of their schedule?
Yes
It’s just HomePPM * 17 + AwayPPM * 17
PPM alone will tend to overrate teams like RSL and Dallas who have each played three more home than away games.
Edit: Dallas is +4 home games.
And obviously, KC is a big benefactor since they’re currently at five home games and 14 road games
What's the point total for Seattle/LA?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Corrected PPM * 34
Los Angeles: 63
Seattle: 59
Salt Lake: 58
Philadelphia: 56
Columbus: 49
NY/KC: 48
Dallas: 57
NY/KC: 48
Colorado: 44
DC: 43
Portland: 38 [oops, why I did bother listing this?]
I'd like to know
due to game parity, what is the danger of adding an additional must-win game versus being able to go through a much easier path?
Huge
Assuming it’s a home game and totally ignoring the effects of short rest from a mid-week game, you’ve got a 40% or so chance of losing it. So your Cup odds are only 60% of what they would be without that game. Playing in the East isn’t going to make up for that.
Nos Audietis
Is this gut feeling or some metric
Not disputing necessarily, I’m just curious at how the 40% number was derived.
Dave did some great work analyzing parity during the offseason
check this post for links to the conclusions and the series.
That was all sidereal
He likes me, but not enough to take my name
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Here's another idea...
Let’s just win the Supporter’s Shield, and let the other clubs worry about their damn playoff seeding!
by regnaD kciN on Jul 18, 2011 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Sure, but it's not the ways things are trending
We’re only a point behind the Galaxy, but we’ve also played the most games of any team in the league. We’ll have to see how things play out, but it’s likely that we’ll drop down the table a bit as teams play their games in hand.

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