Major Link Soccer - Soddy Turf Edition
by Dizzo on Jul 18, 2011 10:00 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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PrintIt was another great soccer weekend. The Seattle Sounders had a roller-coaster 4-3 victory over the Colorado Rapids. It was a game where everyone on the offense contributed to the victory with crisp passes and great runs off the ball. The defense had a couple glaring errors, but at least they can look to the offense to bail them out unlike earlier this season. Match highlights and photos are available here and here.
USWNT Lose Thriller: The final game of the women's world cup yesterday was a thriller to watch despite the heart-breaking loss in penalty kicks for the US. Even the President was glued to the TV. The US controlled the game and netted two impressive goals, but Japan always found a way to equalize. When it came time for penalty kicks you could see the Japanese team were relaxed and happy while the US team was clearly feeling the pressure. In the end that would be their undoing as three US players missed their penalty kicks.
More links after the break:
Sod-on-Tarp Ruins MLS Game: The Vancouver Whitecaps, like the Sounders, have set up a grass pitch on top of their normal turf for their upcoming friendly against Manchester City. The Sounders turf this Saturday was bad, but the Whitecaps turf was unplayable leading to a cancellation of a marque game against Real Salt Lake. Benjamin Massey at 86 Forever is pretty irate with the Whitecaps front office's insistence on bowing to the needs of a big name club. Denz over at RSL Soapbox thinks the Whitecaps should forfeit the match due to their poor planning.
Roster Moves Continue: Rosters are still under upheaval as teams take advantage of the open transfer window. Sporting KC added more creativity to their midfield by signing Brazilian play-maker Jefferson. Jefferson is the club's second designated player. The New York Red Bulls traded 2nd-year midfielder Austin Da Luz to DC United in exchange for the international roster slot they needed for new keeper Frank Rost. Da Luz was a highly regarded left midfielder for the Wake Forest Demon Deacons, but has had limited impact for the Red Bulls due mainly to injuries.
Cooper on the Trading Block: It looks like Portland Timbers striker Kenny Cooper is on the trading block. The Seattle Sounders are in need of a better target forward, but I personally think the team can do better than Kenny Cooper. According to our own Jeremiah Oshan the other teams that might be interested include DC United, FC Dallas, the Chicago Fire, the LA Galaxy and the Philadelphia Union.
NER Fans Protest: The atmosphere between the New England Revolution front office and its supporter groups just got worse on Sunday. The supporters sitting in the Fort (the main seating section for supporters groups) sat silently through the first 15 minutes of the Philadelphia Union game before leaving en-mass. And no, they weren't just looking for better seats in cavernous Gillette Stadium.
Pumas Unbeaten: The Kitsap Pumas remain unbeaten at least in league play. On Sunday the Pumas defeated the Vancouver Whitecaps residency program 3-0 to claim the division title for the 2nd time in two weeks. Previously they had clinched the title with a draw against the Washington Crossfire until they were hit with a 4-point deduction for failing to include a player on their roster during an earlier game.
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I actually liked the grass field
Although the repeated prat-falls from the players and the ref added comic entertainment to the game, I really did like how the long ball would hang up and not skip out like usual. Pretty quickly, our guys realized that they could hit the ball harder to get it into space and Fernandez, etc., could get to it. That definitely led to the first goal. I am now a believer that RBP needs to go grass.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 18, 2011 10:14 AM PDT reply actions
Ahhh.. The dream of grass.
It’s just that, a dream. Everyone needs to stop pining away for it, it is not ever going to happen. The sounders are second banana to the Seahawks. And, as much as no one wants to hear it, that is never going to change.
Never is a long, long time, my friend
No one thought the Sonics would ever leave town. No one ever thought the Seattle Pilots would be pulled after just two years in Seattle. No ever thought there’d be a more popular team than the Huskies in the 60s. I never thought about the fact that the twin towers could be brought down (both NY’s and Houston’s!).
Aside from all that, there’s an assumption by you that the Seahawks would somehow be against natural turf. I can tell you that they are not. The considerations are strictly technical and cost-related.
Would love to have grass, but I also understand how Seattle weather/sea level stadium causes a mass of technical and cost issues.
Vancouver should have had to forfeit, btw. It’s management’s job to have everything in place for the game. They made the choice to put in turf, didn’t protect it nor consider potential outcomes and, as a result, a game couldn’t be played. That should be a loss on their record, a refund to their fans, AND a huge reprimand/fine from MLS.
A forfeit is a bad outcome for the everyone except RSL
Even poor teams have a decent chance of at least a tie at home, and RSL is going to be in the Supporter’s Shield race. Punishing Vancouver is all well and good, but I don’t see why RSL should be rewarded with a win without setting foot on the field. It’s also a bad outcome for Whitecaps fans, who wouldn’t get to see RSL play in Vancouver and are not at fault for the postponement.
Vancouver made a move with the turf in order to make more money with the friendly. If anything, the consequence here should be that they have to send RSL some money to recoup additional travel expenses.
Particularly the few dozen traveling fans
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 18, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ahem...
No one ever thought the Seattle Pilots would be pulled after just two years in Seattle.
They weren’t…they were pulled after just one year in Seattle. They played the 1969 season in Seattle, then were sold and moved just before the 1970 season began.
But he is right...
no one thought it would happen in two years! If he said one he would be wrong because i think the owners knew it at some point!
The stadium might never see grass
But its not going to be because the Seahawks are exercising some playing surface authority about it.
by B-Lot tailgater on Jul 18, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
It's because
the Seahawk linemen will be exercising some 300 pound cleats against it. How long is grass going to hold up in October rains with the NFL and MLS playing every week? I’d rather see middle of the road turf over completely destroyed grass.
by Patrick N on Jul 18, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Drainage systems exist
As do other tools to dry out the field.
by B-Lot tailgater on Jul 18, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Is there a grass pitch out there that has shown the ability to withstand a full season of NFL and MLS games? Serious question
by ABTsportsline on Jul 18, 2011 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Not NFL, but Robertson Stadium's grass seems fine
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
remember the playoff game?
It’s only fine now because the college isn’t using it.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 18, 2011 12:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't recall it was fine
In fact I remembered it being pretty poor… and UH only plays half the number of home games an NFL team does.
I’m guessing a full-slate of NFL and MLS games in one year in the same stadium on grass probably wouldn’t hold up too well.
by ABTsportsline on Jul 18, 2011 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither does the turf though.
I will admit to being incorrect about Robertson though, my bad. But I think the Seahawks and Sounders could make it work if they were willing to invest the resources. It just might not be worth doing so.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think your final musing there might be the correct answer :)
by ABTsportsline on Jul 18, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm just unconvinced that turf is going to hold up any better than grass.
The current surface at Qwest is just awful and has been for a while now.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
The only benefit with poor turf
is that it at least is a consistent level pitch. With bad grass it tends to get divets and stuff in it. Not sure which is really more dangerous or whatever… but at least turf is level.
Good grass > good turf > bad turf > bad grass
So grass is better as long as you can keep it good. Otherwise turf limits the damage.
Nos Audietis
by sidereal on Jul 18, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the same thing
I am going to assume the Sounders/Seahawks would be better able to keep up the grass. Higher quality stuff, perhaps better weather than in Houston (though I have no idea), better groundskeepers. I’d also make the guess that the quality of the practice facilities allow for both teams to spend less time on the field than in Houston, but that’s just an assumption.
Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton, Alberta is home of a CFL team and for the longest time received semi-regular Canadian national team games. It was also natural grass until 2009.
Playing soccer on that in the midst of CFL season was like playing on a concrete wave pool. It was the Career-Ender. I’ve seen some gawd-awful plastic in my time but not much that matches up to that grass.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jul 18, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Polar bear crossings probably didn't help either
Nos Audietis
by sidereal on Jul 18, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Turning the dream into reality...
I think grass could happen. For example, Greentech has a modular grass system. The grass modules are prepared offsite, allowing the stadium to be used while mature grass grows. The modules are installed in seamless squares slightly above ground, allowing ideal drainage, growing, and maintenance conditions. The squares can be rotated or replaced easily in areas that are worn or too shady for grass to grow. They can be removed completely for other stadium events.
It might be too costly, though. The Meadowlands used a similar system in the late 90’s. They abandoned it after 3 years with 2 NFL teams tearing it up during the late fall, requiring too much cost on replacement modules. The stadium management could have just wanted to go cheaper, with crummy turf afterward.
I wonder if the FO’s would consider something like this.
Check it out: www.greentechitm.com
by Warsaw28 on Jul 18, 2011 1:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It has also been used
At the last two summer Olympics, Lane Stadium at VaTech, and Spartan Stadium at Mich St. I wonder how it would work in Seattle’s climate.
by Warsaw28 on Jul 18, 2011 2:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Regarding Whitecaps match postponement
Many are citing a failure of the team in planning as the culprit of this blunder. I’m thinking that could have just as easily have been our team had we had the inclement weather instead of Vancouver. Is it really a fault of the team, or the system? At the very least Vancouver couldn’t have known when the friendly was planned that they would have that weather on gameday. Neither could we – we just got lucky.
Back to the grass vs turf debate (which surely isn’t to dead-horse status at this point), would you rather have a grass pitch at a place designated to be a SSS (assume Memorial Stadium, for this example), or a turf pitch at Qwest? If it’s indeed a condition in which we need to yield to be at Qwest, I’m ok with not complaining.
Granted I don’t have to play on it, but I know from which place I prefer watching….
The Seahawks are against grass.
It’s specious to argue that its a “technical” concern and that they’re actually agnostic on the subject. That’s a great point about playing in Qwest, for whatever you make up in purity by moving and playing on grass, there is a tangible cache factor they would lose moving to a much smaller stadium.
The Seahawks are not against grass
their current president actually said that he would prefer it.
Holmgren isn’t here anymore. Get over it.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 18, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Grass can be done here
I actually grew up in Florida and watched a ton of football games in RAIN like we never see here. At then Joe Robbie stadium, they had a underground system that both pumped water to the grass for watering, and then could be turned in reverse to suck down puddles during really bad rain and it worked quite well. That was over 20 years ago, so I genuinely believe that there is technology that can be used here to keep the field playable.
Also, we can’t dodge the bad perception of the field turf to the rest of soccer world, whether legitimate or not. “…Qwest’s hated artificial turf.” http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/soccer/tag/_/name/blaise-nkufo. I would hate to think that we may lose out on a $5M+ player because they were worried about a career on our FieldTurf.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 18, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Frankly given the current state of the turf I would be reluctant to play on it were I an in-demand player
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It makes you wonder
One of the main arguments in this old battle is that Field Turf will hold up better. Here we are—argument Fail. We are replacing it again already after 4 years or so. That cannot be cheaper in the long run.
by Brougham Hooligan on Jul 18, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
True, but there have been some significant advances since it was installed.
I prefer grass, obviously, but there are artificial surfaces that I would be fine with.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Are you talking about Emirates Stadium?
That’s grass, technically.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd love a 90/10 grass/turf blend
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Jul 18, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
GrassMaster is typically a great surface, but does anyone remember this?
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07332/837278-66.stm
Obviously Pittsburgh has weather difficulties we don’t, but Wembley has had a lot of problems as well. Still, a hybrid is probably the most realistic option/
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
That's exactly it. Holmgren was the one pro-turf
The current Seahawks are more “anti-spending lots of money”
This is another thing.
Qwest Field is an signifigent advantage for the Seahawks and I hope with time it will develop into one for the Sounders as well. I can count at least two times last year where simply playing at Qwest instead of any other football season was the difference between a win a loss (including once in the playoffs).
If I have to choose between my team playing on grass but losing a few more home games while it’s being installed or waiting a few extra years until they find a way to do it without interrupting the home schedules of both teams, I’ll take option A a million times over.
He can be for unicorns.
But until reality magically changes neither are a viable option. I’ll agree in an alternate reality where it doesn’t rain, grass is indestructible and lineman smaller, the Seahawks would be all for grass. Until that happens though…
Using the reply button makes it easier to track conversations
It would be appreciated if you could do so in the future.
by Aaron Campeau on Jul 18, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
But the Seahawks are not "Against Grass" as you claim
and repeating the lie doesn’t make it truth.
They’d prefer natural grass with the proper technical systems in place. That will take at least 8 months to put in, and probably involves augmentation with artificial fiber.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
um.... wow ok... it just did that
It’s really too bad that the USWNT handed that game over on a silver platter. There is no reason Japan should have gotten that goal to tie in regulation time and easy clearance that got redirected to a Japanese player right in front of goal.
I’m not sure how Japan beats the US on a corner kick… but they did, and then missing 3 PKs in a row? REALLY?
Credit japan they stuck in there and took the couple chances given, but it really was a game we should have won.
Are you suggesting..
It was a fix? Like New Orleans winning the super bowl? :)
The Brazil game was such a storybook ending that it
reminded of the 30 Rock episode where NBC was making up Olympic sports so they could have Americans win for better ratings. Except I don’t think even if you scripted it you could pull that off more than one time in twenty :)
Could you imagine how many hits Carrasco would get
had Morgan’s goal in regular time been the game winner? I could certainly imagine her earning the game MVP for that.
Double standards
I just hate double standards. When Solo goes down, it is becuase she is injured and that actually helps the other team to regian their composure even though the US is leading (?), but if player from opposing teams go down, it is a part of time wasting strategy. Give me the break. Solo would not go down before the corner if the US was not up at that time. From the article below.
“Solo injured her knee in a collision with Japan’s Yukari Kinga early in the second period of extra-time with the Americans leading by a goal. She opted not to receive treatment at the time, in stark contrast to the often-theatrical antics many players choose to adopt in such situations During the USA’s thrilling quarterfinal victory over Brazil, the Brazilian players continually feigned injury while leading late in the game in an attempt to kill clock.
But Solo’s knee complaint worsened, and by the time there were only four minutes of extra time left she had no option but to call for the trainer and play was halted while she was treated on the field. The break gave Japan time to compose its thoughts prior to a corner kick which immediately followed. From a corner, captain Homare Sawa produced one of the goals of the tournament, a superb flick with the outside of her right foot that flew past Solo and into the net.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?slug=ro-rogers_solo_plays_through_injury_071711
Umm, did you actually watch the Brazil game?
that was fakery. she looked over at the bench to verify that she should.
Solo also got treatment at the end of regular time and prior to the penalties.
This isn’t an example of a double standard.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I agree Brazil's player fakery was disgrace
but to say that Solo’ s injury helped Japan’s team to gain composure is just plain bs . I bet you in anything else in this world if the US is behind, she is not going down before that corner kick. I am not saying she is faking it, but it is very convient time to go down and waste some time. If she was really injured, she could be subbed at the end of regulation (the US had subs available).
What are you saying is a double standard?
Are you saying Solo should be criticized for getting treatment?
Are you saying that the goal would have happened one way or another?
Are you saying Solo was faking it?
Solo was bleeding out of her knee
Pretty sure the injury was legitimate
by ABTsportsline on Jul 18, 2011 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
It's my understanding that the conventional wisdom is...
that you don’t cause a stoppage, such as substituting, when defending a corner kick. I’m pretty sure that feigning injury to waste time would fall into that category.
by central_scrutinizer on Jul 18, 2011 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
If it was opposing player in the same situation, I would think she was faking it
so, at least someone has to question if Solo was doing the same thing.
Solo had been treating it tenderly for awhile
looked like she was in pain, got up and kept playing, and got more treatment before the PKs.
Erika looked over to the bench, walked around for a bit, then crumpled without being touched. The minute she was off the field, she got off the stretcher like it was no big deal.
There was no double standard.
At least CLink's pitch was better than the Whitecaps pitch for the Man City friendly
for the colorado game… it looks terrible in Vancouver.
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