Marcus Hahneman "On His Way To Seattle" Says Red Bulls GM
As seems to come up every week or so, the Marcus Hahnemann to Seattle Sounders talk will not go away, despite the difficulty in making an acquisition and the contract work. With New York Red Bulls having an open designated player spot, cap room and a glaring need for a starting goalkeeper rampant speculation was that they were going to deep their fingers into the pot of gold that is Red Bull Energy Drink and sign the US National Team player.
That idea was put to bed today
Contrary to speculation, that goalkeeper will not be 39-year-old U.S. national team backup Marcus Hahnemann, who has spent the last decade playing in England but whose contract with Wolverhampton recently expired. "No, we have not spoken to Hahnemann," Soler said. "As I understand, he's on his way to Seattle. So I don't think that's an option for us."
emphasis added
And the idea that he will be heading to Seattle shortly obviously re-ignited. Seattle would almost certainly need to move up in the allocation order, free up cap space to still have a DP slot open and find a decent contract for the second half of 2011. As previously noted, MLS teams are asking about the depth at centerback and there are probably four contracts that open up cap space through either trade or cutting who wouldn't significantly change the fortunes of the club - Nate Jaqua, Brad Evans, Erik Friberg and Leo Gonzalez.
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In case you've missed it before
I’ve been told in no uncertain terms that Marcus Hahnemann will go through allocation. I can understand why Hans Backe doesn’t think he’s getting him, and it makes sense unless they were willing to make a trade, but don’t take Backe’s word that Hahnemann is as good as in Seattle.
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yea
he’s deferentially going through allocation. But question still remain if everyone above Seattle will pass on him, Seattle trading for higher spot or being another McBride where a team above Seattle takes him but MLS forces that team to trade him to Seattle.
Either way i definitely see Seattle having to give someone up to get Marcus.
Couldn't skipping allocation be possible...
…if a team puts a DP tag on him? I thought I had read that a few places.
Not suggesting we should, of course.
It was done once in the past
Jeremiah has heard that the loophole has been closed.
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Life after Keller
I may be too sanguine about what life after Kasey will look like, but at this point I would be a bit leery about bringing in a high-priced keeper as it would inevitably mean making sacrifices in other parts of the team. I think I would rather develop one of our young keepers and see if we can get by with a lot less salary devoted in goal.
Ford and Meredith are a couple years from being starters
That gap has to be bridged.
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Another local option
After last night this seems like a good opportunity to rev up the “trade for Tally Hall” machine. I’m sure it would be at significant cost, but I’d wager the dollar value beneath what Marcus would cost. In fact I hear we might be heavy a CB and we have a talented one sitting on the bench that Houston is familiar with.
To get Tally Hall
We’d definitely have to give up more than a CB in the Pat Ianni mold.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure
I was just thinking that plus some cash could make it happen which I still suspect will be less than Marcus’ salary. And it would make the rumors about a defensive DP signing make more sense.
If you refering to the rumors of Neill
coming to Seattle. Its not going to happen.
That makes more sense
I guess I just assumed because it seemed so strange on its face, that there was actually some reality to it. Why make up a rumor that doesn’t fit into the team’s needs? Anyway, thanks.
Teams aren't the only ones that make rumors up
often times it is agents
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Poorly worded
Sorry, I didn’t mean that the team would make it up. Usually the rumors that have no actual validity fit some need that the team has. It makes them more plausible. For example, many of us have been perfectly happy to buy just about every target forward or CAM rumor that has come along… but a centerback seems out of place given our strength there. Being a contrarian, I assumed that meant there was some truth to it and that it would mean a series of roster moves.
But yeah, agents seem to be the worst culprits.
I have
to agree with Dave here. Rather that 2012 starting Keeper be marcus or some other keeper. I’m definitely against Ford, Meredith yet alone boss starting next year.
I'd rather get a vet keeper at a cheaper price
With less name recognition. Hartman and Ricketts are some of the best keepers in the league, and IIRC they’re paid in the neighbrohood of 100k. Just doesn’t make sense to spend DP money on a keeper.
Keller isn't making DP money
so why would Hahnemann?
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Soler may simply be stating conventional wisdom...
… but even more notable than the CW being that Hahnemann ends up in Seattle is the fact that NYRB isn’t even looking in that direction. Exactly how does he plan to address their goalkeeper situation if he’s not entertaining that sort of possibility?
He does mention that they are looking at other keepers available on a free
Would CW really be enough to ignore Hahnemann completely?
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perhaps CW plus allocation complications?
…could be he’d rather look to add an international than deal with the league shenanigans, particularly with the De Rosario slot opened up.
check that...
Ives reported that De Rosario was taking up an international slot, but reports when he was acquired stated he has a green card.
Damn misleading Ives….
by nimajneb on Jul 4, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can understand
what Soler is saying. NY is 2 spots in allocation below seattle. With out NY making a trade, what are the chances that marcus would drops to NY?
keeper on a free vs giving someone up to land marcus?
MLS unwritten rules
Conventional Wisdom might not be, but there are certain unwritten rules that the MLS has which Backe is just stating publicly. Remember McBride coming back to Chicago? If our FO says straight up that they want him and Marcus says Seattle is where he wants to go, the league will make sure it happens. It’ll cost us, but the MLS has absolutely demonstrated a history of bending rules to make sure guys end up where they “should.”
I suspect any delay in announcement is a) the transfer window hasn’t opened or b) the FO isn’t quite sure he’s worth the cost. If both sides want it to happen, it’s as good as done and Backe was just stating what everyone in the league would already know.
this
it cracks me up that people are looking for ways that this could work through the byzantine ruls in place…
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Jul 4, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
There are better options in the league we could trade for
Tally Hall for example. Let another team take a risk on an old keeper.
there are not better options...
Anyone who is better than Hahnemann that is already in the league would cost a lot more to acquire than him. I can guarantee that.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions
NYRB know he's not needed
I think that New Your Red Bulls know that it isn’t necessary to pay DP money for a goalkeeper in the MLS. That said they do need to do something in the GK positon.
I don’t think Seattle should take Hahnemann ether, he’s a great GK, but I’d like to see them find a younger player who could stick around with the team for a longer period then 3 to 4 years.
Good players in MLS don't really stick around more than 4 years
If say, Josh Ford, became a great keeper, he’d be gone in a few years anyway.
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Even though
seattle would have to make a move in order to be able to take marcus’ potential contract, I find it crazy for Seattle to pass on marcus.
Keller, marcus and Ford vs Keller, Boss and Ford. I’ll take Marcus over boss anytime.
Seattle isn't going to pass on Hahnemann
If Hahnemann signs with the league, you can bet that, at the very least, the contract he’s signed is acceptable to the Sounders. Honestly, of all the things to worry about, the Sounders simply passing on Hahnemann is not one.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
i should have i said seattle would have to be crazy to pass on marcus cause i don’t see them doing that.
I can see why NY would look else where. There is no way marcus is gonna drop that far to where NY can get him with out making a trade and i think NY understands that.
Like i said Keeper on a free vs giving someone up to get Marcus. NY would also have to replace that player they would have to give up as well.
Does anyone else around here hate the allocation rule?
For those unfamiliar with the allocation rule, I’ll start by saying it as nothing to do with allocation money which is special money clubs are “given” to spend on players outside of the salary cap.
The allocation rule however, is a system of distributing current and former US national team players to league teams. Basically, at the start of every season, they create the allocation list based on the previous season’s performance. The worst peforming team is at the top of the list, and the SS winner is last. Any expansion teams are placed at the front of the list. Then, over the season, as US National team players filter into the league, each team still on the list gets an opportunity to take the player or pass and stay on the list for the next one. If they take a player, they are removed from the list (or moved to the end, I can’t remember). The allocation list is how the Sounders were able to get Kasey Keller in our inaugural season (and to-date I believe is the only player we’ve acquired through the allocation process).
My problem with this process is that it’s now become much easier for clubs to persue desirable foreign players than it is players born in the US. This should never be true for a US based league. Basically, the allocation rule gets in the way of US players getting to play for teams or in cities they want to play in. The league is essentially saying to all US players, “we really want you back in our league, but if you come back, you’re going to have to play for the worst clubs in the league, sorry.” I say this because, in practice, only 3-6 US players come to the league each season.
Sometimes you even get the embarrassing debacle that we had with Felihaber where he signed with the league and didn’t know for several days which team he would play for. Chivas and the Union passed on him before the Revs finally took him. Way to make him feel welcome MLS. In a matter of 3 allocation picks, he didn’t know if his new home would be on the west coast or east coast. Do you think he had a preference? Probably, but what he wants doesn’t matter with this rule.
Clearly Hahnemann would prefer to come home to Seattle and finish his career where he grew up, just like Keller did. Unfortunately, the league rules don’t allow for this without Seattle having to give something up in a trade to move up the allocation order. If he were a foreign player, this wouldn’t be necessary. He basically being punished because he’s from the US.
I think they should do away with the whole allocation list process and just mix US players in with foreign players and expand the discovery list. They should also have limits (and maybe they already do) on how long a team can keep players on their discovery list without signing them.
The
problem with using the discovery list, you get into situations where a single team can stack up with nat players by using the discovery list. The allocation order gives every team a chance to possible get a nat player.
The discovery list solution
So what happens when five teams put a discovery claim on teh same player?
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know
Maybe the same thing that happens when multiple claims are made on foreign players?
Look, I’m not saying it’s a perfect solution to group them into the discovery lists. I just want US players to be as accessible/desireable as foreign players are and I want the rules to never get in the way of one of them coming to MLS to play. This was the first/best idea I could come up with to address the problem I was identifying.
I’m sure you can do a great job poking holes in this idea. Do you have a better idea to share? Does your question imply that you think all is well with the allocation list system?
by K61 on Jul 5, 2011 12:49 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to be a contrarian...
But the problem is that as long as we have single-entity, there is no good solution. And assuming we don’t want to go down that path right now, I honestly don’t think the allocation system is a huge deterrent to USMNT players coming back to MLS. Or at least not to the level some make it out to be. Maybe Marcus Hahnemann decides he doesn’t want to play, but how many players decide against MLS because they won’t be able to pick their team?
I would think a bigger deterrent is, quite simply, money. The reality is, most of these guys stand to make better money overseas, or at least think they will get seen by the people who will eventually give them more money.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 5, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
yes
I hate the allocation rule, but I don’t think the discovery process is an answer. I think a us national team should have a heritage clause. Allocation process normally unless you’re dealing with a player who has a hometown team. Like with McBride, Keller, or Hannemahn. Or say when clint dempsey comes back to the us in the future. He’d have a choice if he wanted to play for a texas team (home state) or New england (team he played for before going to fullham) and if he has no interest in those 3 teams then the normal allocation continues.
by python6114 on Jul 4, 2011 10:31 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I like that it allows expansion teams to get a marquee player for their first season
And I’d like to continue that; give expansion sides first dibs on signing returning US internationals, at least for the first one they sign.
But it does seem a clumsy way to reinforce parity in a league that perhaps has too much of it. As you say, it discourages the return of US internationals. I say ditch it, but don’t fumble with the discovery list. Free agency.
As soon as Free Agency begins in a significant way
the league is subject to anti-trust lawsuits as Single Entity disappears
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That
and we would be in bidding wars with the other MLS teams. And that is not exactly a good thing when we got a 2.5m salary cap.
Why Doesn't Marcus qualify as homegrown?
Sure, the rule wasn’t in place when he left for Europe, but he grew up here, went to college here, and played for the USL Sounders. It doesn’t get any more homegrown than that. It’s total B.S. that we’re even having this conversation. The league should let him sign with us.
HomeGrown Players have to be developed within the Academy structure of an MLS team
He was not, and clearly was not.
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Not to argue
the point but would him signing with the Rapids before he left for Europe make illegible anyways?
I agree about allocation, but discovery list not the answer
The other thing to consider is Canadian internationals don’t have to go through allocation. Someone like Atiba Hutchinson can come into MLS and sign with whichever club he wants. That’s a loophole that MLS has yet to close. In a few years, this may become a topic a great controversy.
by James Bray on Jul 4, 2011 11:09 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
you sure about this?
I’d imagine he’d be subjected to discovery unless he’s a DP. No player, afik, can really “choose” his team in the way people seem to think.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Julian de Guzman
If I recall correctly, he didn’t go through an allocation process and signed for DP money in TO. I’m not sure if TO put in a discovery claim on him.
by James Bray on Jul 4, 2011 11:22 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Not
that i am aware off. Although i think allocation only applies for returning Americans.
TFC likely only team willing to pay DP money
AFIK DPs also need to appear on discovery lists.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't doubt that TFC was was only team willing to pay JDG DP money
But I’m not sure about DP’s and discovery list. Was Torsten Frings on TFC’s discovery list? My point is Canadian National Team members are treated just like any international team member not from the U.S.; no allocation order. This is a U.S. and Canadian league. Perhaps MLS should consider closing the Canadian loophole.
by James Bray on Jul 4, 2011 12:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
the discovery list isn't public
so we’ll never really know. also not sure this exactly a huge loophole, but it should probably be closed none the less.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Instead of having to salary dump someone...
if the allocation mechanisms can be worked out, why not sign Hahneman to a shorter deal for the league minimum and when Keller retires in the off-season extend his contract at Keller’s $250k for 2012? Aren’t most MLS contracts for the current season only? Maybe we could even loan him somewhere for a few months to keep getting PT.
If his heart is truly set on coming here, I’m guessing Hahneman would accept a lower salary for a few months until he takes over 1st team keeper duties.
Also, I can’t imagine him taking a DP slot. If his salary is going to be anything more than the $250k Keller makes I’d rather give Boss a chance in the off-season, and keep our eyes out for a less expensive option – there’ll be a Hartman (Dallas) or Perkins (someplace on I-5) type option available down the road.
marcus
taking the league minimal would make him more viable to be taken by those teams above Seattle. I mean a veteran keeper at 42k?
Does he sign the contract with the league?
I was under the impression the allocation order gave someone his rights, then the team negotiates the deal. In that scenario, it’d be clear to everyone beforehand:
“Marcus, you’re our starting keeper in 2012 and you’ll get Keller-type compensation. But to avoid trading away a quality player, you’ll get the league minimum until Kasey moves upstairs in December. Cool?”
by wannascribble on Jul 4, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
contracts with the league.
I’m not sure how much say a club has in that, but probably less say when the player goes through allocation. But let’s he frank Everyone wants Marcus in Seattle. Rthere are no other teams making huge banners for him in the league.
So I’m sure it’ll be one of those trades to seattle, maybe even a centerback. And keeper is worth 250k and up for someone like Marcus, but don’t worry the cap goes up about 200k every year now, so really by next year when keller’s contract is gone and the additonal cap money is added per the new cba. Marcus will have cost us somewhere around negative 150k, as in we’ll have more cap space next season anyway.
by python6114 on Jul 4, 2011 10:24 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Seattle
may not have to give up any to get marcus though. There that possibility that he may drop to Seattle. However Seattle would have to possibly give someone up order to open more cap space in order take in marcus’ contract with out affecting their ability to sign a DP player.
who wouldn't want Marcus?
I think a lot of teams before us in the order are set on their goal keepers. So he may fall to us. Except if I were a team I might take him just to get something for trade from Seattle.
by python6114 on Jul 4, 2011 10:36 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
A trade
would happen anyways regardless if it was to get a higher allocation slot or to open up more cap space.
More than $250k?
Not sure I agree with that – I’d think of $250k as about the max, even with a small annual bump in the cap.
But we’re splitting hairs at this point. Just about all Sounders fans feel he’s worth getting, he’s worth a significant salary well into six figures, and if we have to give up one good player to bring him into the fold it’s probably worthwhile.
by wannascribble on Jul 4, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
All standard contracts are with league
DPs
GAs
HGPs
are the exceptions
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Most MLS contracts are for a year or two with one or two options as well
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Possible contract
He would likely sign a deal like you’re talking about, the catch being that if he signs for too low of an amount, other teams would be more interested in using their allocation spot on him.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jul 4, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Here
Chivas, Philly, Houston, Toronto, Chicago, KC, Seattle
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Could we potentially be making a deal
with Chivas? If they took Marcus then what would we have to give them that they would want/need in return?
They would lose their allocation spot of course and they might be thinking Eddie Johnson is the next UMNT player to come home that fits their wish list.
I doubt
Chivas would be taking Marcus. They have some one specific in mind.
Seattle would likely trade allocation
The only team ahead of Seattle that could use a keeper badly and now is Chicago. And they have cap room.
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Right
especially Seattle would have to open cap space anyways if they want to make additional moves this summer transfer window.
Has Sean Johnson fallen off the wagon?
I remember him being highly-touted.
All those teams ahead of us are set at keeper
Chivas rates Dan Kennedy pretty well, and Philly has Man-Dragon.
Houston, Toronto, and Chicago all have very good young keepers.
KC has Nielsen, who despite the GAA earlier in the year was making some crazy good saves.
Teams might not want to drop down in the allocation order if they have their eye on somebody in particular. I could see us getting Marcus without having to trade up in the order. Might have to trade to make cap room though…
I agree
Chivas has a lot of needs and most of them are on the offensive end. They’ll want to keep their options, and allocation slot, open in case they can sign an attacking midfielder, winger or striker. Philly is a better team, but also need offensive help more than another keeper.
Chicago might be interested in having a better keeper to help Sean Johnson as he’s been inconsistent this year. Are they willing to pay what Marcus would want? Probably not. Tally Hall and Frei are playing very well for Houston and Toronto, IMHO.
Well what I really meant was
Chivas not needing a keeper, taking him anyway, knowing they will get something like two of our guys in trade. (in a deal that would be worked out in advance of the allocation selection)
I
doubt Seattle would give up 2 players though. however Seattle could give up a player + draft pick or player + allocation money.
Since Chivas needs a forward the only player i can see Seattle giving up to Chivas for their allocation pick is Jaqua but then again does Chivas want that salary.
Chivas claims
to want to make an all So-Cal team so that really limits the guys they should be willing to take if they’re actually going to do that.
it's not that a So-Cal entirely
What the Chivas Owner said was that he wanted to build a team through the Academy. So he was saying that wants a team of home grown players not trying to only buy/acquire So-Cal players. That most of the Academy players are from So-Cal b/c thats where they can recruit from.
by Colin Johnson on Jul 4, 2011 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions
On trading Jaqua
He is untradeable just to save cap room. He’s just bad. He makes almost half of the non-DP league max salary, and he just sucks right now. No way somebody takes him unless we’re paying most of it.
Friberg takes up an international spot and has been inconsistent, and Leo is getting on in years and has lost his starting spot, so I don’t think either of them are tradeable too.
Losing Evans would be a tough pill to swallow.
Trading
away a starting midfielder could cause problems for Seattle in case there is injury. Zak is still out. The only way trading a midfield make sense if Seattle is bringing one the summer transfer window imo.
Plus
if we are going to lose jaqua I rather we get something out of him than nothing at all if he is left unprotected in Montreal’s expansion draft and the Impacts take him.
At this point I'd be happy if Montreal takes Jaqua
He hasn’t been playing well and that means we get to keep a better, younger player. He’s not even cracking the league 18 much at this point.
On Leo Gonzalez...
there are probably four contracts that open up cap space through either trade or cutting who wouldn’t significantly change the fortunes of the club – Nate Jaqua, Brad Evans, Erik Friberg and Leo Gonzalez.
-He’s still the better of the two left backs defensively.
-When CCL games begin Wahl is not going to be up to playing 90 minutes in every match. If you want to contend in all competitions, removing Leo Gonzalez is not a viable option.
Whoops – I meant, “to try to prevent the 6 teams in front of us…” I should get on the proofreading bandwagon.
Even
if that’s what he’s trying to do. We still need to open up more cap space though.
The reason players end where they should
The MLS wants to protect their single entity status and will bend the rules to make sure a player ends up where he wants to be. From a business stand point isn’t it better to have happy workers and working in places they want to work.

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