Seattle Sounders Make No Moves As MLS Transfer Window Closes
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 14, 2011 8:14 PM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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The summer transfer window has closed and the Seattle Sounders did not make any additions (although Miguel Montano has been loaned to the Montreal Impact). That's the main story, the one there's really no getting around. There is, of course, a little more to it than that.
The Sounders, as you may have heard, were pretty close to acquiring a player GM Adrian Hanauer described as their "No. 1 target all along." In fact, as recently as four days ago, Hanauer said the team was so close to acquiring the player that a transfer agreement had been signed. While Hanauer, understandably, did not want to give away the identity of the player, he described him as a forward currently playing in a top European league who would have cost "multiple million" to acquire and sign.
"About four days ago, things started to grind to a halt," Hanauer said. "We had been well on our way to buying the player and over the course of the past week to 10 days, the team had a couple of injuries to forwards.
"Now obviously, I'm not privy to their internal conversations, but it appears to me that the head coach went to the player and said 'I can’t lose you. I’m going to make you a big part of our plans,' even though the sporting director was willing to give him up."
While missing out on their No. 1 target was disappointing, and Hanauer admitted that not getting the mystery player only makes him want that player more, it wasn't entirely unforeseeable. The obvious question then becomes, What about Plan B? Hanauer said the team had been negotiating with several players and that one of them probably could have been signed, but that the Sounders just didn't feel those players were the right fit for one reason or another.
"We could have thrown a plan together and signed another forward, but we decided that these other ones weren’t originally our two targets and we didn’t want to deviate from the plan of signing someone who fit our criteria," Hanauer said. "Obviously if someone on our list had met all that criteria, they would have been at top of the list all along."
As an aside, Hanauer noted that another reason not to go for broke on one of these second-tier targets is that he expects a rule change in the future that will make signing young Designated Players more cap friendly. Hanauer said signing one of these other players could have potentially limited their flexibility next year, and he was reluctant to do that.
Hanauer also pointed out the team can still make changes until Sept. 15 when MLS rosters are locked. Among the options are finding a player currently out of contract elsewhere in the world or trading for a player within MLS. Neither of these options, Hanauer admitted, were necessarily likely to net a real impact player. Hanauer said the Sounders have been active in calling MLS front offices, but a combination of exorbitant asking prices and generally unattractive offers have tempered his enthusiasm about acquiring a player who would be a likely starter.
The Sounders' best chance of finding such a player is probably someone currently out of contract. Of course, those players are unattached for a reason, but that was also Mauro Rosales' situation before the Sounders signed him and he has since blossomed into a MVP candidate.
"We do know of a few players, but they weren’t players on our target list," Hanauer said. "But you never know if a deal becomes so good that you’re willing to take the risk, maybe short-term deal.
"We won’t shy away from potentially bringing in an impact player, but the reality is there aren't a lot of them out there right now."
Hanauer admitted to being disappointed that the Sounders were unable to make something happen before the transfer window closed. He definitely seemed to understand fans' frustrations, but he also expressed confidence in the team he has already assembled.
It's a hard perspective to argue with, frankly. I know I wanted to see the Sounders add a player, but I actually take some comfort in their unwillingness to compromise just for the sake of making a move. Let's not act like this team is in the middle of a crisis. A few disappointing results aside -- one of them particularly fresh in our minds -- this has been a positive season. The Sounders' have been no worse than the third best team almost no matter how you look at it, and far worse teams have gone on championship runs.
Maybe the Supporters' Shield is out of reach, but let's keep some perspective about what one player could have provided this team over a relatively short period of time. The Sounders have as many as 17 games left to play this season -- nine in MLS, six in CONCACAF Champions League and as many as two in U.S. Open Cup. A new player would have been available for, at most 12-15 of those. If they had scored five goals, that would have been considered a grand success. Is that enough to turn the tides in the Supporters' Shield race? Doubtful. Could it guarantee a spot in the CCL quarterfinals? Who knows.
Whether or not the Sounders added a player, the ultimate success or failure of this team was going to be decided mostly by the guys already on the roster. No, I'm not excited about playing the rest of the season with Pat Noonan at forward. I'm skeptical that O'Brian White will return to full health anytime soon. But I honestly believe this can still be a special team. Let's try to keep that in mind.
All of that said, feel free to vent.
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what else is there to say?
Even our front office can’t find the back of the net.
I think you’re being far to easy going on them. Remember: anyone better than Noonan would have been OK and it would have been easy to do. See FCDallas. The first day of the transfer window should have seen someone better than Noonan on the squad. Shooting for the stars could have happened in the background and they had plenty of time to do it. They failed. Plain and simple.
The good news is we do have better forwards than Noonan
Why we don’t play them, is, um…
I really do believe it’s time to give Fucito and Jaqua better looks at forward in MLS games.
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
Jaquan has been given plenty of looks in MLS games
No need to give him any more
by MicahRowe18 on Aug 15, 2011 3:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
He only has 7 starts in all competitions
same as Levesque.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
And since a start is the only way to measure
I guess we may never know how good they really are.
Ridiculous, who cares if they start or not. Jaqua has had plenty of pitch time to contribute.
by sounders_freak on Aug 15, 2011 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And he has been
2 goals, 3 assists
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Aug 15, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I did say "MLS games"
US Open Cup games are a different story
by MicahRowe18 on Aug 16, 2011 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey, at least we're not the Red Bulls
I’d rather have lesser-talent with better coaching than….. well….. you know where I’m going with this.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Unnaceptable
That we have to spend the rest of the year watching Roger Levesque and Pat Noonan pair up with Montero is a disgrace. I don’t want to be the Everton of MLS. I don’t want “good” seasons. I want people to expect us to win the Supporters Shield and the MLS Cup. We know we won’t do either of those things this season, which is a bitter pill to swallow for me and I’m sure a bitter pill to swallow for all my fellow season ticket holders.
I like this Front Office. I really do. But they let us down here.
by nicktjacob on Aug 14, 2011 8:34 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
nothing about Adrian's message
said that he was fine with merely ‘good’ results. He’s as disappointed as the rest of us.
Adrian is "disappointed" with the results?
That reminds me of Congressmen, where they pass a horrible bill, and then when confronted with the bad legislation, they assail the legislation as though its a horrible person by itself to dodge responsibility. AH cannot say he is disappointed with the results—AH caused the results. I’m not pissed because they did not sign Tagoe, Cisse, etc., I am pissed because the Sounders have done nothing for 5 months to fix the front line. (oh wait, they resigned Noonan and added Sanyang) And to say to us “whiners” that we should be happy with a third place team that may win the Open Cup again, almost definitely won’t win the SS, likely does not have offensive firepower to get through the MLS playoffs, and will do god knows what in the CCL (oh, yeah 38 shots to get 2 goals in that competition with SF, I’m sure Monterrey will let us do that), who loves the Sounders and cares about their future more than us whiners.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 14, 2011 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions 8 recs
That's the worst part...
Knowing that we have no shot at the MLS Cup or making a run in CCL play.
This team needs a goal-scoring striker who strikes fear into opponents. We don’t have that guy, so onto next year we look.
And hey, next year may be really special. Zak will be back, midfield will still look phenomenal. We’ll probably sign Ngassa and maybe someone even better. As long as we shore up that back line and get a good replacement for Kasey, we should be a better team than we are this year.
by nicktjacob on Aug 14, 2011 9:08 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow, some people sure do give up easily. You're telling me that Salt Lake and Colorado can sneak in for a win, but the Sounders have no shot?
by Agent_J on Aug 14, 2011 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
"next year may be really special"...
…or not.
Sure, StevieZ will probably be back. But Keller will be gone, and how much of our time, energy, and money are going to have to be devoted to finding a quality replacement in goal?
There’s speculation that Fredy may be headed to Ajax over the winter. Suddenly, we’d be down to zero threats at forward. I’d also be concerned about keeping Alonso — if Old Whiskey-Nose Sir Alex Ferguson is impressed enough with his play to publicly label him a good player, I would think the call to Europe is coming sooner rather than later.
And, then, there’s the Rosales problem. I’m sure that we’d like to keep him next year, but I would think his performance this year is going to be getting him attention from lots of places (maybe not the highest echelons of Europe, but just about everywhere else). Can we be sure that anything we offer him is going to be more attractive than greener pastures elsewhere?
My point is that there are lots of questions about next year, and the off-season may find us with several key holes to fill. It may be a major challenge for our FO (which, but this summer’s results, appears to be majorly “challenged” already) just to manage to preserve the status quo, before even thinking of moves to improve the team. There’s no chance like the present, and I fear we’re on the verge of sacrificing the present for a future that may never come.
Not enough firepower?
We’re tied for third in the league in goals.
Consistency is the real issue.
by Agent_J on Aug 14, 2011 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The issue isn't volume
This team is excellent at creating goals when the field is stretched and play is open. The problem was illustrated perfectly this Saturday—when a team is content to bunker and counter the Sounders do not have the answer in the final third.
That’s the play we’re going to see in the home leg of the playoffs and every CCL match.
by ClosetCoug on Aug 14, 2011 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And yet we still score more than the vast majority of the league.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Last time I checked we'd won two trophies in two years and hadn't been eliminated from the CCL, USOC or MLS Cup playoffs
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Wow.
U.S. Open Cup. A competition that pretty much only we care about. Most other teams don’t even try to compete.
That aside, if you think this team is good enough to get out of the CCL Group Stage and make a deep run in the playoffs, more power to you.
I do believe that, because they are.
Unless you think this season has been a fluke.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Not at all
This is a talented team. But I can’t tell you how sick I am of watching Levesque and Noonan out there.
I don’t think I’m off-base to be frustrated by the fact that we don’t have a legitimate goal-scoring threat at the forward position.
There's a difference between being frustrated and being unreasonable.
By saying this team can’t make a run in the playoffs despite have the third best record in the league is unreasonable. Saying this team has no shot to get out of the CCL group stage despite being better than two of the other teams is unreasonable.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Alright.
Well, we’ll see.
Maybe they’ll do something smart like start Rosales up top and have Neagle take over his place in the midfield.
Starting Rosales up top is kind of a waste of his skill
He’s a wide player
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that he's a dangerous goal scoring threat
and I think a lot of that is knowing how to get into good positions from wide areas.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he would, but then he's not playing wide.
Which is where he is the most valuable.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
I hate scoring goals, you’re right.
Noonan or Levesque up top is a much better situation for us.
Rosales has scored all 3 of his goals while playing on the wing
And I’m pretty sure all/most of his 7 assists have come from there as well. He is our MVP (sorry Alonso) while playing right wing, so it makes no sense putting him up top with Montero so we can have 2 withdrawn forwards.
by MicahRowe18 on Aug 15, 2011 3:41 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Incorrect
Rosales has been our most dangerous playmaker. To suggest that our top goal-scoring threat is anyone other than Fredy Montero, you must be watching with a blindfold.
That said...
I’m not unopposed to the idea of trying out Neagle up top. What’s the harm in taking a look? He can’t be any worse.
stats
in which case there is no greater argument for the worthlessness of stats as general indicators of anything
As in
Only 3% of stats prove to be meaningful?
"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Aug 16, 2011 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Really?
I mean we’re no Man U or anything. But to say that we don’t have a chance at any of those competitions because we didn’t pick up anyone is ignoring the entire season pretty much. And if it was that bad acquiring that one player wouldn’t had made that huge of a difference. I’m a bit disappointed too but your reaction is ridiculous.
Not what I said
I merely stated that if were were actually in as poor shape as you are claiming we are in that forward wouldn’t solve everything. The simple fact is we are still very good. And everyone who is claiming Sounders season apocalypse is severely overreacting.
Yes
but then you went off on how we didn’t have a chance of winning anything this year. That was all i was addressing. perhaps my reading comprehension skills weren’t what they used to be. I too am disappointed, but I believe we still have a very good chance in every competition we are in.
You need to say "this year yet" after that statement
Our offensive woes do go back to the start of the club in MLS. And our only goal scorer ever in the playoffs won’t be there this year.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 14, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn dude
Calm down. You’re freaking out like we are Toronto or Vancouver. It’s gonna be alright. Just breathe into a paper bag or something so you don’t hyperventilate.
Heh.
I got a warning b/c of the “volume” of my posts. Not sure if that’s automated or not, but I don’t think I’m freaking out about this at all.
I’m frustrated that the FO couldn’t get anything done. I don’t think Noonan or Levesque are good enough to start the rest of the year, and it looks like that’s what they’ll be forced to do.
Btw, I’ve said repeatedly that I like this FO. I just think they dropped the ball here.
Umm...
Hanauer: “Clearly we’re not the dominant team in the league, but we do feel like we can compete with anyone. We think we can win a championship.”
With this team? No chance in hell.
by nicktjacob on Aug 14, 2011 9:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This team is about a thousand times better than the Rapids last season
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Rapids forwards last season were pretty impressive
Life's what happens while you're making other plans
Sure, but as a team they weren't that good
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
don't disagree with you in general
but if you mix consistent, dangerous forwards with a team that gets hot at the right time and a little luck …well, you get the rapids….I think that without the consistent scoring efficiency (not just looking at the total number of goals we’ve scored) it makes the task of going deep in the playoffs more challenging even with luck and a hot streak on your side
Life's what happens while you're making other plans
You are really on point there
What the hell does this mean? We are not “dominant” and thats ’ok because, hey, we still can compete in any particular game. Consequently, we are not too much of longshots to win something. Who is his PR guy, Stuart Smalley?
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 14, 2011 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
^^^ right up there ^^^
you say:
I obviously agree…
… that we’re a good team.
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Um, and?
Good team doesn’t necessarily mean a championship team.
Good = Everton of MLS. Always solid, never great.
Everton has been around a lot longer than three years and doesn't have to work within MLS salary constraints.
Also, Everton has won the league nine times.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
You obviously...
…knew I was talking about recently. Citing a championship in 1986-87 is about worthless in the context of the comparison I was making.
Funny, I'd say trying to compare an MLS team to an EPL team is significantly more worthless
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'm comparing the mentality
Everton’s content finishing 7th or so in the league every year.
Seems to me AH and co. are content with us just being a good team this year as well. They can’t possibly believe that we’re going to win the MLS Cup.
I don't see why that's such a crazy thought.
And I think it’s really disappointing you seem willing to believe the worst about the FO.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude!
I LIKE this front office! I just don’t like that they couldn’t make anything happen during the transfer window.
Overall, Hanauer & Co. have done a great job bringing in talent. They just failed us in this instance, which is a bitter pill to swallow.
There weren't...
… just two solid forwards on the planet he could have signed. I realize things fall through. As soon a Cisse was gone on July 12th, Hanauer should have had another target in mind. All he had was Tagoe, whom he banked on nabbing.
I don’t understand how there wasn’t a Plan C, D, E, etc.
I get the “don’t want to force anything” mentality, but was there really THAT huge of a drop off in talent from Tagoe to another guy we could have targeted after him?
It's not just talent.
Coming to MLS is seen as a step down for players in Euro leagues. A lot of them might not have the most pure intentions, to put it democratically.
For example, I would have been fine with a player of Robbie Keane’s talent level. But seeing the details of the deal he signed, I wouldn’t have been especially thrilled.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed.
There are a lot of other factors.
But if I’m in Europe, I’d love to come play for 36k+ fans in Seattle. Turf does suck though. Hindrance.
The inability to play in the Champions League is probably 1,000 times more of a factor than turf
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Ultimately yes.
But if you’re playing in a European league in the top three tiers, chances are you’ll need a pretty large incentive to come to MLS.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree that bringing in a warm-blooded body would've been nice.
But it appears, at least in my opinion, that Hanauer was afraid of crippling our future by bringing in Plans C, D, E, etc. I don’t know the landscape of the market out there, if freebies like John Carew and Benni McCarthy were adamant about not making a shift to the MLS, but I have to trust that Adrian and company have the best interests of the team in mind when making their decisions, both for our chances this year and our chances for next.
We’ve also shown a proclivity to win this season while starting a below-average TF, there’s no reason to think we couldn’t continue our success despite this. And I know the rationale behind improving the TF position, trust me I’m just as disappointed, but I don’t think it dooms our chances.
Plus coming off the books for next year you’ve got $500k in Jaqua, Noonan, and (sadly) Kellar alone. That, plus a 3rd DP, plus potentially Hanauer’s hinted change of a young DP status, it could open up a lot more options. If we were saddled with a contract like Keane’s that we took out of desperation in the 11th hour, we might not be able to say the same thing for the years following.
uhh.. im not to sure..
i think during the offseason we could be losing some key players and they are players that will be tough to replace.
you have stated that several times...
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
unconvincing...
Because an upgrade at forward given the standards presently in use at forward should not necessarily mortgage the future. Hanauer has worse arguments in that discussion… but this one is pretty bad.
by nimajneb on Aug 15, 2011 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's no reason they can't add more talent at the position.
They just can’t do it via international transfer.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Who knows...
we don’t know exactly the situation Hanauer was presented with. This question is a bit irrelevant.
You really don't understand how people are drawing different conclusions?
Because a lot of the things you’re saying seem to imply something different that how you say you feel.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I haven't said anything to contradict myself
I never once bad-mouthed Hanauer. I simply said that sticking with Levesque and Noonan for the rest of the year is not going to cut it. So we should all just shift our focus to 2012.
They dropped the ball here. Doesn’t mean I don’t like what they’ve done up to this point.
I think what he means
is we are not going to win every game and dominate like Barca and Madrid do every year in la liga, no one in mls is going to do that. But that we can compete with the best teams in the league.
Maybe not, but that was my interpretation
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
by kelliott1527 on Aug 14, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Who cares...
There are lots of disappointed front offices out there in the league. That Hanauer is disappointed doesn’t make it any better. He should be held accountable, period; regardless of whatever progress he made. The fact is he didn’t close on his targets.
*Unacceptable
Sorry about the typo.
by nicktjacob on Aug 14, 2011 8:35 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Concerning Logic from AH
If we don’t get one of our 2 initial targets then we won’t sign anyone, even while admitting we have a need.
What is the “Criteria” AH is using if scanning all possible transfers results in two players? Maybe we should loosen up the criteria so we have a chance of landing a player?
Regarding impact players, “There isn’t a lot of them out their right now”. Is he saying the Sounders were incapable of scanning the globe for a 2nd striker that was a considerable improvement to our current squad? That is a ridiculous statement if that’s what he was expecting us to believe.
More then the 2 players they were pursuing I’d love to know their “criteria”. Sounds to me like the list was created with very little urgency to improve the squad. Today’s non-action is AH’s endorsement that the current squad is capable of meeting all of his ambitions. While the two teams we are trailing in the WEST decided they wanted to get better.
One of the great things about soccer is the best team doesn’t always win. I’m hanging my hat on that. Go Sounders.
by Alonso45 on Aug 14, 2011 8:37 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I'd rather they not take a shotgun approach to finding transfers.
What, exactly, is the point of finding just a marginal upgrade to the second forward? We do realize this is not a two-month rental and that any transfer coming in would be around for quite some time. So you’d now have someone marginally better than Noonan that becomes Noonan — the guy everyone loves to hate because he’s overpaid and underqualified — for the next 18 months or more, thus crippling the ability to construct a roster going forward.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 14, 2011 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
There's a vast middle ground...
between “shotgun approach” and coming up with 2 targets, and a vast number of potential targets that are more than marginally better than Pat Noonan at this stage of his career.
You must realize it's not that simple, right?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone is in a position to say
exactly how not that simple it is.
It may be that the criticism is misplaced due to that theoretical difficulty.
I’m pretty sure that praising Adrian for that completely theoretical difficulty as has been done several times in this thread is likewise misplaced.
He’s done an outstanding job. As far as I’m concerned, he should run this team for years to come. With this particular circumstance, he should have done better by the standards of the position he occupies.
by nimajneb on Aug 15, 2011 12:35 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I don't know that a lot of people are going to disagree with that.
It’s a frustrating situation all around.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions
You're right. If we can't get our number one target we should just sign someone. Anyone. Even Pat Noonan.
Seriously, lets just throw a boatload of money at him to make sure he won’t leave. We’ve got to spend the money on someone right? Is Pat Noonan’s (possibly nonexistent) brother available? LETS SIGN HIM.
If there’s no one out there that’s going to fit the club, then as far as I’m concerned, we should ride the boat we’ve got. Last thing we need is dead weight, or a distraction.
by Agent_J on Aug 14, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
can't argue with that
You win. It’s impossible to construct a logical response to someone who is suggesting we could only find someone “marginally” better then Noonan. You must rate him much better than I. I admire your love for the squad as it is. I wish I shared your contentment.
We could find someone "marginally" better,
but as Dave pointed out, they wouldn’t be ready for a few games, and would only supply a handful of goals and assists in a best-case scenario. Frankly, I’d prefer Noonan, who at the very least has a rapport with his teammates and is a proven “anti-cancer” than someone who could rock previously-described boat.
I’m not “content” and I would have liked to get someone in the transfer period. But I wanted the “right” someone, and short of that, I don’t think any additions will help this club enough to be worthwhile.
Our FO has shown a good eye for scouting, for the most part. I’m going to trust them until they give me reason not to.
The phrase" I'd prefer Noonan" took a lot of strength to use in this scenario.
The only other time I’ve managed it would have to be when I was asked “Which Sounder would you rather trade scalps with?”
agreement
We agree on everything except whether or not the Sounders could have found the “right” someone. I think with better preparation, scouting, negotiations it could of and should of happened. The FO dropped the ball.
If they narrowed their list down to two specific guys, I've got to think they did a proper amount of homework.
IMO, if they were at the edge with a guy, and circumstances forced him elsewhere, then there’s not a lot they could have done about it. Then again, if we miss out on the Cup because Jaqua pokes a header just wide of the net, I might end up with the same viewpoint as you.
Kk
You aren’t the FO and I’m pretty sure they have much more experience in how these things go than you do. If you have a top flight MLS team, why would you want to go out and spend multiple millions of dollars on a player, when you can wait 6 months and just get something else that fits in your guidelines. Why lower your standards? The guidelines that they came up with are probably very stricken, and I’m glad they are.
did you mean 12 months?
The search should have started when Nkufo left, ~6 months ago. They had six months to find the two players who met their criteria. Did you mean we should wait 12 months to find the perfect fit?
by Alonso45 on Aug 14, 2011 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, Nkfuo left 6 months ago
So we had 6 months to look for players, and AH found two that fit his criteria perfectly. He pursued them, had a chance at each (ended up going as far as doing paperwork with one of them), and got unlucky. Why would you want our FO to settle for something, why are you willing to settle for anything less than the best that we can get? There aren’t going to be a ton of opportunities of people that fit what the team is looking for, and if it’s only going to make you marginally better, then why chase them. Why risk the chance of messing up the chemistry of the team if you went through the motions and your top options fell through? We’re in 3rd place in the league right now, so let’s not all jump ship just cause we didn’t get a player. Wait and see how we do in all competitions, then you can complain if we missed a huge opportunity because we didn’t pick anyone up.
I would feel a lot better about this if the rest of the league wasn't strengthening...
But the Galaxy drop JPA and add Keane, Philly adds Adu, Costly to Houston, DeRo’s starting to really come on for DC United.
We sit idly as our competition grows stronger.
by olorcain on Aug 14, 2011 8:45 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
FYI, Rumor now is once again JPA to Philly
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 14, 2011 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Response...
This is really disappointing. I think it is especially disappointing to me because I wasn’t just hoping for an exciting new impact player to be brought on to the team for the sake of the results on the field. I think, in large part, I was hoping for a new impact player to help take away the deep disappointment I experienced when 1) Nkufo left the team on opening day, 2) Zakuani was injured so badly so early in the season, and 3) we lost OBW in the same week for who knows how long… (not to mention a less than full strength Montero, Evans, Jaqua, Hurtado, Fucito etc… at multiple various points along the way).
In a season that held so much promise, that’s a lot of loss. I didn’t just want a new impact player for what he could bring to the field. I wanted a new impact player to soothe my soul.
That said, I agree that we are doing remarkably well for the setbacks we have faced. In fact, we’re the best we’ve been in our 3 years in MLS. Aren’t we? We’re still vying for multiple trophies. We’re legitimately one of the top tier teams in the league. Do I want to be the dominant team in the league? Of course! But I don’t just want that for one season. I want that over the long haul. And for that, I’m glad we have a FO that is keeping the big picture in mind. Am I still disappointed. Absolutely. Am I still in this for the long haul too? Well, just until I die.
by bago'juice on Aug 14, 2011 8:47 PM PDT reply actions 13 recs
Soul soothing
Well said. You’ve put your finger on much of the angst within the fan base.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 6:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well said
That’s actually how I feel now too. I’m extremely disappointed that nobody was signed – I needed that soothing as well. I understand Hanauer’s words, however, and realize we’re still in a good spot in 3rd place. We also are not yet eliminated from any competitions.
I’ll be more vocal about my displeasure if we don’t add this “one yard line” target in the next window, however. They probably should start increasing their scouting list of forwards in case that doesn’t work out again. You have to have more than 2 guys on the radar…
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
There were more then 2
And from the sounds of the interview, the next best option was pretty young, expensive, and possibly not all that tested.
Talking about next window
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm only mildly disappointed.
It would have been cool to have that impact TF, but going forward I’m glad the restrained and held out for the best, even if it didn’t work out.
Onto speculation: who was the target? Peter Crouch? He was on the outs, and Defoe has been super injury prone. I admit I haven’t been keeping up on my Spurs as much as I should though..
by chrisperry1983 on Aug 14, 2011 8:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The question then is,
why couldn’t we pull the trigger earlier, before the injuries happened? It’s not like it was a mystery what our needs would be going into the window.
Just a guess, but it may not have been as simple as that
Seems like last season, in Europe, would’ve had to have ended before going after a target began in earnest. And even then, a lot depends on who is signed by which clubs, which strikers fall out of favor and which go on the market after rosters begin to take shape in the European leagues.
So you’re not really talking about six months at this point — especially if it was top division — you’re beginning to bump up against the opening of the window, if that makes sense.
When the bullets make the decision to come out of the gun...
I am sure Adrian and the FO were pulling triggers. The problem was the “bullets” wanted to play in Europe for more money or turned down the most we can offer right now within league constraints. When you target younger players with more tread on the tires you have more world competition for their service.
Was that hubris on Adrian’s side or just poor “targetting” at realistic players who could play and fit the roster.
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
very valid question
I think that’s the real issue.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
If we have a plan to get a great player this offseason, I'll be totally fine with this.
We have a shot at the MLS cup this year with our current squad, so I understand not signing a “Plan C” DP if it would stop us from signing someone better this offseason.
So I’ll leave my criticism until then… If we dont upgrade this offseason, THEN I, as well as many others I would think, will be extremely disappointed in our front office.
by SeahawksPhan on Aug 14, 2011 8:50 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
It's a lot harder to get a "great" player during the winter transfer window...
…because, for most leagues around the world, it’s mid-season. Nowhere near as much activity as in summer.
It could go either way
Conventional logic tells you the summer transfer window would be easier since teams are off-season and shuffling personnel. On the other hand, the winter transfer window gives you guys that have fallen out of favor with their clubs, or clubs looking to move excess players at positions – so you can also find deals.
Your odds of finding the right guy would have been better during this last window, I would think…
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
So of all the leagues in all the world
And the fact that we probably are sitting on relative buckets of cash compared to the rest of the league, we got no one? That’s… completely illogical. Was there no backup? What happened to options #2-whatever?
I did.
I’m still allowed to be disappointed, logical, illogical, or not.
by joesz on Aug 14, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, I know that.
And like I said, I’m not saying my opinion is logical. I’m grumbling.
I guess on the plus side, this just means we saved a bucket of cash to blow in the off season on still more acquisitions.
Aparantly you didn't see the new rules.
No longer allowed @ SBnation:
Trolling
run-on sentences
The letter V
Disappointment
Consider yourself warned
by Agent_J on Aug 14, 2011 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No
No, in fact the post doesn’t adequately address this. The argument is that what Hanauer is saying is his honest belief, then he’s incompetent. Clearly the team just wasnt motivated to acquire a better player, as the case is certainly dozens of better players than we have, yes, worldwise, dozens of better players were to be had that we could afford. The disagreement is valid, and obvious – we think we should have spent more cash, Sounders FC didnt care.
by RalfZakuani on Aug 15, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
figure of speech… in fact i would have prefered a less expensive addition. and we could have improved well for our 2nd forward spending a lot less than it would have taken to get someone like Cisse
by RalfZakuani on Aug 15, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
And we still might. Less-expensive options are still available to be signed
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Forwards are valued based on their ability to put the ball in the net
A cheaper player really isn’t going to be that much better then what we have.
Both Cisse and Tagoe average about 1 goal every other game against much harder opposition. Imagine what they could do in the MLS.
Disagree
Tagoe would have been really really expensive. More expensive that almost any MLS’ teams second striker – and most team second strikes are way better than Levesque who literally is a non-factor.
A really important variable here that we can’t forget is that this wasn’t just a “we need to get better” move.
The frustration comes here because we have a really, really, really impotent, lousy option at second striker now. Levesque is a non-factor. Fucito, noonan and the rest havent done much better.
Tagoe would only "cost" $335k
Granted he’d obviously be paid more than that, but all we’re really concerned about here is the cap cost, not what the player makes.
Good strikers don’t come to lesser leagues for less money. You have to pay to play, and by all accounts it seemed we were willing to pay.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
You want to see an MLS front office that doesn't care?
Look at New England or Chivas USA. This front office cares a lot.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
I think Seattle fans are being unrealistic
I share the frustration to a certain extent of many people here, but we need to be a little more realistic. There aren’t barrels of undiscovered or top talent out there seeking to come to the MLS. The $s and cents don’t work for many and the overall maturity of the league isn’t there. People are making this seem like all we needed to do is pick up the phone and the ghost of forwards past would send talent our way. We got to this point by having management that understands the long game and smart enough not to mortgage the future for the present, especially out of some sense of desperation.
In the off-season we added 3 or 4 starters. Nkufo was a tough loss but for a 6-9 month period this front office has made this a better team. We’re also a young team with lots of upside. We are not the old guys who desperately need to win now. So disappointment is fine, but we have to remember we’re still a good team in the MLS. There will be some tough breaks when trying to obtain talent, but we are on our way and maybe need to be a little more patient. We’ve sent the bar as fans so high that maybe performance expectations are a little too high as a result.
by illwillbli on Aug 14, 2011 9:00 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Seattle fans? Unrealistic?
Why I never!
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:15 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I prefer the delusion of being a Sounder fan
To the mediocrity-craving of being a Mariner fan
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
Why not have both?
Throw in the shoulder chips of the 12th man, some Sonics sorrow, and some “Insert Future Seattle NHL Franchise HERE” hope and you have a complete sports fan.
by Agent_J on Aug 14, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop
Just stop this nonsense. We didn’t need a Cisse level striker. We needed someone better than Noonan. That should have happened day one of the window regardless of any other big target. Yes. Piles of better-than-noonan level strikers are all over the place. MANY other MLS teams found one. Why should we hold the Sounders FO to a lower level than FCDallas?
by Ryan R Ray on Aug 14, 2011 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
If you're dedicating a DP slot to a player, you need to get it right.
Over-reaching and/or panicking is a damned fine way to cripple your franchise for a long time.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
the notion that the DP slot...
is a 12000 pound monkey sitting on the back of the franchise for years to come is complete artifice. If you need to target someone short term you can design a contract and transfer target in that manner.
by nimajneb on Aug 15, 2011 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Assuming those players want to come here.
MLS is not an attractive destination for impact players unless they’re getting A) a ton of money and B) security.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Could you set-up a short loan
on a player which you quit contacting, from a team you stopped connecting with, in four days?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
that doesn't reduce the responsibility...
…sometimes things happen with your primary choices. In particular, if you’re going to focus on the pie on the sky you keep a backup plan that’s down to earth. There was a lot more than 4 days to work with.
But was there a deal to be worked out in 4 days that didn't screw us in the future?
Especially considering Tagoe might be back on the radar soon and AH seems determined to sign him.
There were more than 4 days...
…by the standards of the Sounders and of other teams in MLS, inexpensive options that improve upon what we have (or at least, on what we are playing) is a reasonable expectation.
From all accounts this was a "done deal" in the eyes of Adrian & Co.
If that’s the case, why would you bother negotiating with another player? Given this new information, it’s easier to give the FO some leeway with this unfortunate sequence of events.
That said, I think they probably should have still had other players on a “short list” that could have been contacted – even if just for a loan.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Player agreed, team agreed
and then an injury changed their mind before 100% of paperwork was done.
The real lesson? Finish the paper work quicker
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Aug 15, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can you imagine how different people would sound
Had the FO finished up that paperwork faster? Instead of all these complaints about the FO not being willing to spend money and not looking at enough targets there would be praise everywhere.
Who said you needed to dedicate a DP slot?
I think that’s Ryan’s point — use the DP on an international star if one is available, but get someone better than Noonan/Levesque/Jaqua to fill the gap. (It’s not like they’re in short supply!) Then, if you sign that star, the stopgap becomes a sub, and is still better than N/L/J coming off the bench.
Why, we probably could have signed a decent up-and-coming, non-star TF with the money we were supposed to save when Noonan’s contract ended in early July. (And here’s the most depressing thought — that, effectively, the “transfer move” we made this summer was to extend Noonan through the end of the season.)
We have the cap room...
…the financing and means to add. We have a key position of the team regularly manned by a below average player by league standards. It is unrealistic or unfair to fail to appreciate the outstanding job done by the front office overall in building the team. It is, at the same time, wholly realistic and fair to disapprove of their specific performance on this matter given the circumstances they faced.
You can absolutely be disapprove
But that you presume to know that there were better options and palpable price points is the part that I question.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I've seen in this thread a dismissal of even "Luke Rodgers"
-type options. The justification for stating that there are reasonable options is that such has been well within the means of both the Sounders and other MLS teams in the past.
I dismissed McFadden because he'd have that level of impact and cost a lot more while having serious injury problems
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong...
the injury concern on McFadden is completely fair. I simply took issue with your metaphor there and I hope that doesn’t send the wrong message. A Luke Rodgers-type impact at target forward for this team would significantly improve our chances at several competitions. Regardless of those chances being nevertheless strong, it would be worth significant investment.
I just think you're undervaluing the opportunity cost.
Use the last DP slot on a McFadden level player and you’re unable to sign a Tagoe level player next season.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions
i think it's being a bit oversold...
-you could target a six month loan as discussed.
-DP-level talent is by no means the only means of upgrading the position in question.
….. I can say that this discussion is rather elevating the expectation of the eventual DP acquisition. Even if one accepts that the only way to improve TF this year was to hamper the DP slot next year (and, again, I don’t) – we are in 4 competitions NOW.
Well, if we're not signing a DP we can still add talent.
Either within league of by signing players on free transfers.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:53 AM PDT up reply actions
nevertheless..
…the pool’s smaller, the amount of time to contribute is less, one competition is becoming less attainable, and Adrian’s justifications rub me very, very wrong.
by nimajneb on Aug 15, 2011 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
price point
When all you need is an improvement over Levesque or Noonan, it’s not a reasonable argument to suggest there was no one at a reasonable price point by ANY measure.
by RalfZakuani on Aug 15, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was pretty bummed out..
But this thread is a Field Gulls™ meltdown
Not even close.
Some of those broke 1k comments. They also had good reasons (though never good enough to warrant that kind of meltdown).
Now with more lemon bars!
a bitter pill to swallow
If Zak and OBW hadn’t been injured, how would we be looking right now? But, they were injured — back in April. i do have some questions about why at least some moves weren’t made since that time — it was a big risk to even think that OBW might make it back into full form this season. Yes, Mauro has been a brilliant surprise, but not a move the front office can claim. He came via coaching connections and a try-out. Hopefully we can keep him beyond this year. Lamar has been coming on great this season and I look forward to his improvement next year — but he too plays in that already crowded midfield with Mauro. It seems inevitable that the squad as we know it will be quite different next year. It’s not as though any DP acquired in the off season is going to be dropped into this years squad. I do believe and trust that any off season changes will move us closer to competing for the MLS cup.
I know it’s been pointed out that we are in good standing in the league and that we are a top scoring team. And yes, those goals come from a wide range of players and have made for some exciting, come from behind, last minute finishes. But our number of shots taken compared to goals scored concerns me. And it’s that very concern I don’t believe bodes well for a deep play-off run. Do I hope I’m wrong and Noonan/Leveque/Montero get freakishly hot come play-off time? Sure — and anything can happen. But being realistic, do we really feel that confident trotting Noonan and Leveque out there against the top-tier teams in the playoffs when everything gets dialed up 10 notches?
Am i disappointed that nothing was accomplished in the this transfer window? Sure, but I’m almost more concerned that so little has been done since April when we lost two starters, including our starting target forward.
Even so, I will choose to remain optimistic and will always believe.
Life's what happens while you're making other plans
For what it's worth
I don’t think this was a matter of the Sounders running out of time. It’s a matter of the deal just not being able to come together. It sucks. No question, but I don’t think it was for lack of effort or motivation to make it happen.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 14, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
what's your take/opinion on the lack of FO movement since we lost OBW and Zak?
For me, I think all this transfer window ‘angst’ is truly about how nothing has been done to address the loss of OBW, in particular back in April. I’m not dismissing Zak’s importance, not at all. But we lost who most assumed was going to be our starting TF on opening day (Nkufo) and in April we lost the back-up TF, who had become the starter (OBW). It’s obviously left us with Levesque/Jaqua/Noonan as TF’s and i don’t know many people who feel confident with them up front heading into the playoff’s.
I get that you can’[t pull deals out a hat just because you want a player. I also agree that it’s not wise to make a move just to make a move. But we really haven’t heard anything from the FO regarding the lack of solutions for our TF problem. I hope they weren’t pinning their hopes on getting OBW back in full form this season. Maybe they’ll make a move still, maybe they won’t….either way I will be rooting like crazy for the team, as always, while praying that Leveque/Noonan/et al go on an other wordly hot streak.
Life's what happens while you're making other plans
by LGoofus on Aug 15, 2011 4:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
my thoughts
I think the team really wanted to improve. I would guess the two main targets have been the two main targets for quite some time and things really just didn’t work out. I think they would have made one of the signings a lot earlier if they could have, but I think both players were the kind of guys that really would have liked to have been in Europe all things being equal so they played out the string.
I guess you can blame the Sounders for not having better fallback plans, but if these were the two guys they really wanted and they thought there was a good chance they could get them, I understand why they were reluctant to move onto other players. In hindsight, that was a mistake, but it’s hard for me to second-guess them on it.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Series of unfortunate events
I aggree. The FO made a decision to go for a paticular caliber of DP upgrade. Until 4 days before the deadline, the pieces were in place and then the selling team suddenly had a rash of injuries at the same position. Hoffenheim appears to fit this description leaning the probability strongly toward Tagoe as the target. The Sounders secondary plan also fell through. But let’s not forget that until Saturday, it looked like OBW was ready to play again. Standing pat in that context made sense. It was a risk. But not unreasonable. Certainly strong enough not to mortgage the farm on a player who wasn’t going to be as good a fit but still take a DP slot.
The team can still upgrade with a player who is better than the status quo by either signing a player who doesn’t need a transfer or by making a trade within the league. For the short term advantage of this season a trade within the league offers a few distinct advantages. The most important advantage is that the player knows the league, its players and what to expect in terms of the style of play. They are also likely to fit within the league’s budget structure. The disadavantage is that these players are going to cost personnel not just money. The American sports model is for trading players.
So who is available and who are the Sounders willing to give up? Start with the Sounders willingness to trade with the restriction that the player leaving cannot be an integral part of the current push. (The whole point of this trade would be to win now.)
Untouchable due to their caliber or lack of backup:
Keller, Parke, Hurtado, Alonso, Riley, Rosales, Flaco, Fredy
Big question mark:
Neagle and Carrasco
Everyone else I could see as a possible trade with Friberg being the other question mark.
So the question then becomes are you willing to trade Neagle, Carrasco or both to get an upgrade within the league? Because I would be surprised if it doesn’t cost that. I’m certain that the FO will entertain offers for anyone else, draft picks, money, international slots, etc. The sticking point will be the starting caliber youth of our team.
Do you pull the trigger? For me it really depends on who you get and what’s the deal. Tough to deal either of those young men. Remember also that the short term usefulness of the trade decreases with each week, but teams who think they have a shot at the playoffs are going to be less likely to want to trade now.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I would not trade Neagle
He’s probably our brightest young player. He will be our future on the wing when we eventually lose Zakuani. In the meantime he’s a super-sub that wears down defenses and sends in endless crosses. If that wasn’t enough, he’s got one of the best goal-scoring feet on the team.
I’d be against trading him for a short-term solution at F; in fact I might be inclined to protect him in the next expansion draft, if anything…
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree
with White being injured I would favor them protecting Neagle instead. He’s really starting to grow on me…. 253!!!
There's something to be said for having a local guy on the team,
someone the fans can rally around as your hometown guy. It’s even sweeter when he’s good, so it works both ways. Keller is retiring, so Neagle next year?
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't trade either one of them
For me, neither is worth the cost. I certainly expect the team to protect both in the expansion draft. But I do think that will be the asking price of any interMLS trade.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm disappointed, but the reaction by certain segments of the fanbase is ludicrous.
It’s not dissimilar to what I’d expect from Yankees fans.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:17 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 11 recs
And the Yankees
Win.
Which is what we want. We don’t want to be the Cubs (great fan base without championships) or the BoSox of prior decades.
We want to be the BoSox of THIS decade and the Yankees of last century. We want to win. And yeah – we’re going to be ticked when the FO puts out a product that we all know is LESS than optimized.
It isn’t that AH made bad decisions. He didn’t. But this IS a massive missed opportunity, and as fans, we SHOULD complain (loudly).
by Orothar on Aug 14, 2011 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lots of teams win without their fans being unrealistically entitled
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
entitled or just recognizing how agonizingly close we are to making a deep run at the MLS Cup?
Life's what happens while you're making other plans
we are very much alive in the MLS cup
so problems there, quite frankly… Supporters Shield and balancing League and CCL group stage, another story.
MLS Cup is all good, thanks to MLS sporting socialism
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions
dammit
whish I could edit posts
“NO problems there, quite frankly…”
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions
but
More teams lose because of misplaced contentment.
I am not content.
I just think it’s important to be realistic.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
when have I ever been content?
and yet this doesn’t bug me one bit. As point of fact I am amused by the gnashing of teeth and rednign of garmenst over this transfer silliness!
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
umm "rending of garments"
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
If the teeth-gnashing is severe enough I'd imagine some garments will be some redning of garments as well
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I have been at the College Inn
enjoying some pitchers… good sense dictates I avoid this thread right now. Good sense can go to hell ;-)
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
utterly impossible to be BoSox or Yankees in MLS
you realize that, right?!
right?!
you understand financial structures?!
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
It is possible to be, say, the Patriots in the NFL
It just requires savvy from the front office. Which with guys like Rosales, Alonso, Friberg etc., it’s clear Hanauer has that. It’s just funny/unlucky that he’s struck out on finding a truly dominant DP.
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
and he knew when to fold his hand
Hanauer is quite the poker player. rather than risk to much on a gamble, he folded. That is smart, not cowardly
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 15 recs
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
!!!!!EVERYONE READ THIS POST!!!!!
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
The frustration comes
from there being 6 months to find a winning hand.
Not with him not playing what was left in his hand at the 11th hour.
"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Aug 14, 2011 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
But it hasn't been six months.
Not really. They can scout for that long, but in reality they’ve had something like two months.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Remember the talk
That we might find a DP level talent before the FIRST transfer window closed?
Not 6 months ago sure, but not 2 either.
And it’s surely not the end of the world. But it is frustrating as hell to know that we aren’t bumping up against the limits of a very tight cap- and it’s compounded by seeing everyone around us succeed at bringing in talent while we sat pat.
Disaster no, but it isn’t something we should be happy about at all.
"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Aug 14, 2011 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
like the rainbow unicorn that shits skittles
we couldn’t get that because of the artificial surface, unfortunately ;-)
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
as a Yankees fan...
…they have never added one player at the trade deadline (at least in my lifetime) that put them over the top. It was either a reinforcement to an already strong team (Daryl Strawberry), a move that was a piece of a larger picture (e.g. Paul O’Neill) or it didn’t pan out (the VAST majority).
Reading through this, the only team I can think of that made a deadline move that took a good team and made it great was the 1992 Pittsburgh Penguins.
RARE that a mid-season signing changes a team’s final outcomes.
Texas Rangers, 2010
Cliff Lee was the difference that got them to the World Series. They didn’t get their ring but I doubt the Rangers would have made it that far without Lee.
yankees lost against other Rangers pitchers, too
Lee helped, sure.
Also, by Yankees’ standards, the fact that Texas lost the World Series and then lost Cliff Lee means the entire trade would have been written up as a failure by Yankees fans.
Yes we should demand that the FO
do something like the Yankees always do at the deadline. Like acquire Ken Phelps for Jay Buhner. Because that’s the kind of marginal player that will put them over the top and not hurt them in the long run.
Would you rather
Be compared to the M’s or the Yankees?
Not that I disagree with you. I’m jus’ sayin’.
"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Aug 14, 2011 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not talking about the team.
Talking about the attitude of the fans.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Well all we need to do is convince the American banking system to prop up everything we do
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
We can do this
Patty Murray on deficit committee >
Congress always throws candy to banking system >
Bury a little clause on page 13,432 >
Voila, unlimited money flowing to Sounders
Call her now!
Tagoe will be our Fabregas
We’ll have to wait, but he’ll end up here ;)
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm just glad...
transfer markets are where clubs go to waste money… it’s good we didn’t get into a bidding war and overpay for someone, its good we didn’t just spend money becaue we could, its good we didn’t bring in an over-proced European washout whose value is exaggerated because of marketing purposes. Smart clubs on a budget know how to use the transfer market. Dumb cubs and clubs with more money than sense just go nuts in the transfer market. I certainly hope we are not the former and MLS prevents us from being the latter…
...and you will hear us scream
Unrealistic?
Hasn’t the FO been playing the same song for awhile now- “we’re saving up to bring in some talent at teh transfer window, don’t worry.”
We have Pat Noonan, Roger Levesque and Nate Jaqua rotating at a F spot. I’m f’n worried.
by 509er on Aug 14, 2011 9:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
We've been saving so long, there's only one answer
December 25, 2011, the Sounders announce we’ve acquired Wayne Rooney.
This thread is so full of fail.
Unacceptable? Disappointed? A bitter pill?
I am so, so glad right now that the FO is not run by fans right now. Apparently making any signing is more important than touting the right signing – who knew? If you think that having an FO that has a plan and is determined to pursue that plan rather than throw it all out the window just to assuage the people in the stands is a negative thing, then frankly you need a serious reality check, and perhaps spend a little less navel gazing time looking at the other teams in the league.
by Targaff on Aug 14, 2011 9:48 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I think being disappointed is reasonable.
I also think this FO has learned from nearly every mistake they’ve made, and if there were mistakes made here I have faith they’ll learn from them.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm
i disappointed yes. Furious of course. But am i glad they didn’t just closes their eyes and randomly pick a forward and say hes the one? Yes. Nothing’s worse then wasting a roster spot, international spot and cap space on a player that ends up being worthless. I seen enough of that with the Mariners as it is.
As a gut reaction, sure
But in terms of the team, to me it’s hard to be disappointed without knowing what was on the table – which’ll probably never happen, but you never know. We said at the start of the season that our squad is deep, and while there’s undoubtedly room for improvement, I find it reassuring more than anything that the FO can stand back and say “you know what? I think we’re better off with what we’ve got.”
No doubt
But I wasn’t losing sleep over it to start with, so why go out of the way to upset myself now?
Nevermind, I figured it out.
The two targets were exactly who we thought all along.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 14, 2011 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
And who better to crown than Prince Tagoe?
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
by Grady Clapp on Aug 14, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wishes & Horses
I’m struck by the fact that AH has both perspective & a plan. This franchise is being built for the long haul & our continued enjoyment season after season. AH isn’t short sighted. He is looking for pieces that truly fit. He’s also keeping that search in context. The comment that most attracted my interest is the pending rule change concerning the acquisition of young developing talent. Imagine being able to negotiate transfer fees for players like Flaco without having to tie up a DP slot due to the transfer fee. If they can’t land the right piece now, I am grateful that they didn’t handcuff their ability to leverage that new rule change for a short term gain. Even with a new DP the SS was not a realistic possibilty this season. They have a chance in all of the other competitions. But the true benefit of a mid season signing was for the future. I would not have been content with another Nkufo. I’m sorry. I don’t want them to win now at all costs. I want them to continue to build a dynastic program.
ManU, Barca, the Yankmees, the Red Sox and even the Galaxy all share something critical that the Sounders lack: maturity. This organization is three years old. It hasn’t had time to mature to the point that it can easily survive a passionate impulse purchase. I’m thrilled to be rooting for an organization that looks past the end of its nose.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 14, 2011 9:51 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 4 recs
Disagree
A 6 month loan deal, for even another slight improvement at the TF spot would have given our guys legs some much needed rest, at the very least.
"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin
by Little old me on Aug 14, 2011 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
Very true
I am tired of hearing the “all or nothing” logic regarding an international transfer. A slight improvement over what we got up front is not a tall order, and we don’t have to marry them either.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 14, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
the only problem being...
There’s no reason to believe the six-month deal was ever out there.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 14, 2011 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
there's no reason to believe the six-month deal wasn't...
…is it reasonable to expect the front office to come up with short term options under the circumstances?
It depends on what you're looking for.
For an impact international signing? No. It’s not reasonable.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
take away "impact"
use “helpful”
…why not?
I'm honestly curious
Who are these players you think are available for a reasonable price and on a six-month loan?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I've honestly never claimed to be in a position
manning the phones with a good team, strong venue and heavy purse. If an inability to fully appreciate the difficulties of the role prohibited commentary, none of us would ever be talking.
There is wholly valid reason to be disappointed and state that concern while as stated above, praising the FO performance overall.
I'll say it again...
I’m by no means saying that you shouldn’t be disappointed. I’m not saying the FO is beyond criticism. It’s just that your line of criticism seems to make the solution seem rather simple, and I’m not so sure it is.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
If it were that simple, it would have been done
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Not happy with another Nkufo?
A well-above-average player at a position of need that helps in a key role in several competitions and does not hamper the team long-term?
Why the hell not?
by nimajneb on Aug 15, 2011 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
jeebus
the ECS boards have nothing on you guys.
Read Soccernomics… I had a great discussion this evening about the recklessness of transfer markets with a realitve noob soccer fan who had just read that book. He understood why we didn’t make a move.
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 9:52 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
not really what I said
just a general comment on the cacophony of complaining that seems to infect certain segments of the population, Supporters with a big “S” or otherwise…
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Aug 14, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm concerned the MLS structure is hurting us more than the front office
As we move along as a franchise I’m actually becoming more frustrated with MLS than our front office. The salary cap, allocation thing for USMNT players, revenue sharing, etc. all handicap a franchise with the fan support (and profitability) that Seattle has.
The single entity structure also means that MLS could care less whether or not Seattle wins… and it means that the money from our tickets goes into the pockets of other clubs. I have no idea how much could realistically be re-invested in talent by our club.
Basically, it’s great to be a fan of a small market team in MLS, but if you’re one of the haves and not a have-not, you’re essentially subsidizing the ability of teams with less support to be able to compete with you (Hey there, Chivas!).
We want the team on the field to reflect the current dominance of our fanbase… but that can never happen under the MLS’ current financial structure. We’d be happier under an EPL model that basically would allow us, LA and NY to completely dominate anyone and everyone else on the continent.
Those are my thoughts. I do welcome any counter-arguments as to why I should like the current structure of MLS.
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
I mean I'd like to dominate
With the superior finances and all that. But the simple truth is that all the smaller market teams would fold from lack of support/revenue and attempting to stay competitive with the teams that have the revenue. The American sports landscape just isn’t the same as it is in most soccer nations. Single entity in my opinion has kept the MLS there so the Sounders can be a top flight team.
So ultimately would it be nice to be able to use the advantages gained by our support and revenue stream? Yes. Could the rules be altered and not collapse the league? Sure. But going to a straight capitalism like structure like the EPL would destroy the MLS like the NASL.
by Rockerbaugh on Aug 14, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
You
said it better than i what thinking of saying.
That makes sense
It’s partly why I like the designated player slot. It’s a little bit of an edge for bigger clubs, mixed in with the MLS salary cap.
Still, I fear our fan attendance will drop someday out of frustration over things like this.
The other thing that becomes interesting is that the MLS is banking on all ships rising with the rising tide. But that also means it will be years before a MLS club could realistically compete with Barca, Man U, et al.
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
by Grady Clapp on Aug 14, 2011 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally
I think the MLS is slowly going to alter the rules so there is going to be less and less equality. But only when they are absolutely sure the league can handle it. They won’t give up single entity because of the NFL’s recent experience with American Needle. Hence why we don’t have free agency.
There’s an interesting article about it and probably one of the main reasons we will not have free agency in the league for a while. But I think the MLS will loosen rules with just enough frequency to keep people from being too frustrated at the conservative pace.
by Rockerbaugh on Aug 14, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, I do kind of like not having free agency
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
by Grady Clapp on Aug 14, 2011 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
The other part to this debate
Is that there are other American sports that get by fine without a salary cap. The MLB and NBA seem to prefer dynasties in growing their leagues, whereas the NFL uses parity.
However, the NFL wasn’t always a parity league. There’s no doubt that’s what is keeping them as the king of all sports leagues, but it isn’t exactly how they got there.
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
by Grady Clapp on Aug 14, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
You can't just ignore what happened with NASL though.
I think there’s a case t be made that the league is a bit too conservative, but better than the entire league imploding.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
This is where my complete lack of knowledge about NASL comes into play
But yes, I would prefer MLS not imploding
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
by Grady Clapp on Aug 14, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Basically, the LAG, RBNY and Sounders of the world spent massive amounts of money.
All of the other teams either went bust trying to keep up or went bust when they couldn’t compete.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Single entity with relegation & promotion
was a solution to a league with too many teams. We don’t have that problem – the opposite, in fact.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
oops, that's single table. disregard.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish there is relegation in MLS,
so many of you can understand that staying in the league is important as winning the titles. If we are making drama of not signing someone, how would you feel if you have to sell your best players season after season as many smaller (now, even larger) teams have to do in Europe, or almost every team in South America. Someone mentioned Everton. I do not mind us being Everton. Everton is the second serving top-flight member in England, so what’s bad about that?
We are so spoiled with Sounders. How many franchises in any sport, can say they are regular play-off participant, play in international competition, win some trophies after three years of existence?
by seattle 13 on Aug 14, 2011 10:20 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Am I disappointed?
yes, I would have loved to have a big name, big cash splash striker that scores tons of goals and fits in perfectly with everyone and never causes problems.
Do I understand and am ok that we didnt?
also yes, I dont want to sign someone for the sake of signing. Thats like me saying “you know what, we have estrada and graham on our team, lets just start them because we have them, instead of our better options” (sorry, not their biggest fans)
A sky of blue, a sea of green...(or claret)
The "fail" here is simply to timely get a good body via the international transfer window
The complaint is not against the success of the Sounders or an indictment of any other issue. This whole thread is revolving around the “now” and our problems right now. If people disagree that we have a striker (or player) deficiency now that needs addressing, then they probably don’t care what we do with roster moves and there is nothing to discuss. But most Sounders fans would agree that the loss of Nkufo, Z and OBW has been a serious problem for many months now at the forward position-even Sigi acknowledged that we need a consistent goal scorer up there. The main issue I have with AH is that he is saying we are good “now” with nothing to fix. I disagree, as many here do, as we need to get some help up front now (some also say back line) to field the best team possible so that we can win in our competitions.
The FO does have a chance to fix this problem with the remainder of the roster window, but it does not look good for options, i.e. intra MLS or off-contract international. We can hope. It is very difficult to believe that the FO could not get a player yet to fix this, international or not, since at least OBW going down, much less Nkufo’s departure. So here we are going into all competitions that I (and we) really want to win, but we are being forced to root for an inferior product that we know can be better. Had the FO at least tried something earlier, maybe even signing at least a prospect that could fit at TF, I would feel better right now. But that is the key, they have not done anything at all and continue to do nothing while there clearly is a problem. When you step back and look at the plain facts and timeline on this issue, it really is bizarre; it does look like AH believes its ok, nothing to see here, lets move along. So agree with me or not, AH is putting all of our eggs in the Montero basket now (knowing OBW is likely down for the count). FM gets injured, and we are screwed.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 14, 2011 11:30 PM PDT reply actions
YOU CAN GET THEM FOR FREE Players out of contract:
GK: Richard Kingson
RB: Stuart Parnaby
LB: Jlloyd Samuel
CB: Matthew Upson
CB: Sol Campbell
MD: Jason Koumas
MD: Boudewijn Zenden
MD: Thomas Hitzlsperger
CF: James McFadden
CF: Marcus Bent
CF: John Carew
One by one:
- Richard Kingson is bad.
- Stuart Parnaby is so bad and has such major injury problems that even an imploding Birmingham City wouldn’t re-sign him.
- Jlloyd Samuel isn’t terrible, but he’s not worth a DP spot.
- Matthew Upson is fine, but CB is the last place we need to be spending a ton of money.
- Sol Campbell is 837 years old.
- Jason Koumas and Boudewijn Zenden play roles that aren’t in need of upgrade.
- Thomas Hitzlsperger is likely going to end up back in the Premier League and plays the same position as Ozzie Alonso.
- James McFadden is not actually the worst idea, but as he’s on a free the team could still sign him. In reality though, we’re talking a Luke Rodgers level impact; not really something I want the team using finite resources on for the foreseeable future.
- Marcus Bent is kind of the same deal as McFadden, but older.
- John Carew was who I wanted, but he signed with West Ham.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
McFadden is also coming off an injury
Damaged his ACL and hasn’t played since last August.
by Jack Brando on Aug 15, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
What is available from within MLS?
We can Kvetch all we want, but that doesn’t change the fact that still would like to get better up top.
What are the chances of getting a Justin Braun? Would Vancouver be interested in trading Hassli? How about Kenny Cooper? I’d take Steven Lenhart.
All these guys would be a step up from what we have right now.
We have pieces we can trade. We’re probably going to lose someone to Montreal anyway (one of Neagle, Fucito, Friberg, or possibly Fernandez). I’m also not opposed to trading away draft picks. So I’m asking: who could we possibly get in MLS?
In what bizarro universe,,,
can you conceive of us not protecting Flaco in the expansion draft?
by LordIceman on Aug 15, 2011 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
One where we decide a DP slot could be better utilized.
One where we recognize that he is usually the first guy Sigi subs out of a game and is our second most expensive player.
One where we realize Zakuani and Rosales are our two best wingers.
I’m not saying it is likely to happen. But I could see it happening. Given Rosales’ performance, I wonder how much we’d have even see Flaco if Zak had not gotten hurt.
Is Flaco a better CM than Friberg? is he considerably better to warrant a DP slot?
Probably, I guess.
And to think, I thought the name “Steven Lenhart” would draw the ire here.
Flaco is our leading scorer.
Flaco is the only thing approaching an aerial threat on the team.
Flaco is 25 and caps for one of the worlds best national teams.
Take a step back from the crazy pills.
by ClosetCoug on Aug 15, 2011 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Flaco at TF?
Anyone else ever think Alvaro could fit in as a TF playing off Montero… He has height and arial ability, a great first touch and can beat people on the dribble. Not to mention he places his shots pretty well when he takes them. Put Neagle on the left wing and see what happens. This is what I would have liked to have seen had Zakuani not gone down.
Nothing about Alvaro’s skill set makes me think he couldn’t be a much more threatening TF than any other option we might have. Just imagine how much more time and space Montero would have on the ball if he had even just a slightly threatening strike partner to play off of.
So thats my stop gap.
He'll get killed by MLS center-backs
He’s tall, but he doesn’t have the muscle/toughness. He was having enough trouble last season playing as a CAM. He’s definitely bulked up this season, but I don’t think he’ll ever have the mindset/muscle to play up top in MLS. We’re just asking for a replay of the problems we had when Montero was forced to play as a TF.
Strengths and weaknesses
It isn’t just his physical stature. He doesn’t play ‘big’. Some players can leverage the physical assets they possess and compete in traffic. This isn’t Flaco’s game. Flaco is best when he has space to operate. He is technically gifted but does better with some momentum. Look at how often he gets pinned to the sidelines. He is very nifty when he’s already moving, but not when he’s stationary. His arial ability shines off of movement. Not saying that he cannot fit into a system where all of the attacking players swirl through the 18 yard box on oblique angles, but don’t think he offers a compelling argument over Neagle in the box.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Wonder if the dynamic changes having both Flaco & Montero up top though?
One of those two would draw defenders off the other. When you have Noonan or Levesque up top, neither are a “threat” enough to warrant teams focusing in on.
Even though he doesn’t play “big”, he might get the respect to draw defenders off Montero…. or vice versa. At the end of the day, that alone would help tremendously. Right now opposing teams are boxing Montero and giving Noonan/Levesque more space because they’re not a threat.
I think it might be worth a shot.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm all for tinkering
Basically if we move Flaco up front then Neagle probably comes on at wing. I’d like to see a front four of Neagle, Flaco, FM and Mauro. Don’t care who plays which position. Think a more Barca style. Had some time yesterday and watched the replay of last year’s UEFA CL title match. Struck by how often Barca used short corners because their game isn’t over the top. They made a tactical decision to stay with their strengths. We don’t really have a target forward other than Jacqua in the stable. If he’s not the best option then tweak the system.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Unfortunately we don’t have many matches left where we can take the opportunity to “tweak”. I’m sure as hell not trying it against Dallas next week in MLS play or in the Open Cup Semis. You’re not tinkering during the Group stage of CCL.
Don’t know if we’ll have the opportunity. Maybe that’s why Sigi is sticking with the known commodity?
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Unless we get someone new,
I think you have to just go with Jacqua until OBW comes back (IF he comes back).
Neither Noonan nor Levesque is a target man. Our system needs a target man. Right now, the only man on the team that physically fits the bill is Jacqua.
I’d seriously rather see Leo up there than Noonan.
by Jack Brando on Aug 15, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Credit to whoever brought it up first
I’d love to see Neagle get a chance up top at TF. He plays the ball well, has great speed to make runs, the only thing i’m not sure about is his vision.
though not uniquely...
I’ve been calling for this for a while. It shouldn’t be as a target forward (at least with respect to aerial challenges), but Neagle has more than earned a look at the second forward position.
So he wouldn't be a Target Forward
but a small/small pairing
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I would be interested in seeing Neagle tested up top
Levesque and Noonan aren’t working out obviously, there is little to lose in trying something different. Fucito hasn’t shown the goals in his time on the pitch but he has shown potential and you get the sense that at some point he would start banging them in.
But Neagle has some poise in the game. I’d like to see him play a few in the forward position just to see what happens. At worst, very little would happen which is what is happening right now, so not much risk.
by AliasDictusTyrant on Aug 15, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
What if
When Neagle has come in on the left (and assuming Fucito is up top), that the two switch for ~10 minutes at some point?
We frequently see Fernandez & Rosales switching sides to confuse the opponent, and Montero has the freedom to drift around. It’s all strategy, right?
It would be interesting to see Sigi put Neagle up top even if just for a tiny spell. Fucito would still have the pace on the wings, but he could send it into the box where we know Neagle has a pretty decent foot to finish.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 16, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I think there's enough information out there that we can make some pretty decent guesses at who the targets were.
The situation Hanauer describes with the striker that signed with another team sounds a lot like Djibril Cisse. Cisse signed with Lazio, who finished 5th in Serie A and will be playing in the Europa League this season. Tough for the Sounders to compete with that, especially seeing as how Cisse isn’t too far out of his prime and will likely have another decent contract after this one.
Thanks to some detective work done by Brian, it seems reasonable to think that the other target was Prince Tagoe. Hoffenheim has some pretty major injury problems at striker right now. Vedad Ibisevic was injured earlier this month and will be out until October. Knowledge Musona suffered an injury four days ago.
Let’s assume the deal for Tagoe was 99% done four fays ago. I think everyone would have been pretty damned happy if the team signed him. If they had every reason to believe he was coming here, the odds of them being deep in negotiations are slim-to-none, especially considering Tagoe was apparently their #1 target all along. Three to four days just isn’t enough time to work out a deal to bring an impact player to MLS.
I’m not saying there aren’t criticisms to be made, because there probably are. But if Tagoe was the target that fell trough at the last minute, there was a whole hell of a lot of bad luck too.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 14, 2011 11:53 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
BS
They knew this was coming the day Nkufo left. They failed. Get over it and stop defending them. It’s not like this is a lose-your-job level screw up but it is in fact a screw up.
by Ryan R Ray on Aug 14, 2011 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand your frustration with this Aaron
But I don’t understand why everyone is so willingly accepting that there were only two forwards of the “target” type in the entire world that were 1) an improvement now and into the future, 2) affordable and 3) reasonable
Two! That is the part that seems like a particularly egregious to me. They put their eggs in one basket
by ClosetCoug on Aug 15, 2011 12:36 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations as to what is available. That's my biggest frustration.
Assuming Tagoe was close to being done, that would be a pretty massive coup. Massive. I don’t think people fully get that. Players of his international pedigree, top-flight history and age do not come to MLS. And if they were that close right down to the wire, there’s just not a lot that could be done.
I also don’t think people recognize the value of that final DP slot. Get it wrong, and it could quite legitimately hurt the team for several years.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's certainly exciting that we can be in serious discussions with a player like Tagoe.
But “close” doesn’t count for anything on Tueday when Roger Levesque puts another gimmie over the bar. Although it would have been great to bring in a DP caliber talent at TF, this team would have been well served by even a modest improvement at the position.
But you know that and it’s all moot now, here’s hoping Pat Noonan has a career revitalization!
by ClosetCoug on Aug 15, 2011 1:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with you here, Aaron
If Tagoe was the “one yard line” guy, I can wait until next year – definitely a coop of a signing. But that said, if they can’t land him in the next window either….
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Me too. Stakes higher now that cat is out of the bag
Is the disappointment bigger next window if he’s not signed?
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
It's not that only two exist
It’s that the Sounders have finite resources and if they believed they could get guys at the top of their list, they had to put their energy there. Unfortunately, talent acquistion is kinda a zero sum game. The fact is the focus needs to be somewhere.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I fully understand that
But are they free of blame because they chose to incorrectly allocate those resources? It seems to me that that is the underlying blunder here—and it’s not insignificant.
by ClosetCoug on Aug 15, 2011 1:12 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Adrian should have known that Knowledge would get injured?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
by Dave Clark on Aug 15, 2011 3:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They are not free of blame
They messed up by believing they could get one of those two players. At the same time, I have a hard time second-guessing the decision to focus on those two players since at least one of them was extremely close to signing.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions
correct
This is precisely the right analysis. They could have easily gotten someone at a worse value of less caliber than Tagoe that helped us for cheaper and they were totally overlooking or uninterested in that market. Why?
by RalfZakuani on Aug 15, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Bad Management
What if Rosales got injured (hope not! ! !)….. than no one to depend on …. Definately disappointing not to have a back up or front striker.
Carlos Costly
Example of a player who would be an upgrade. On loan so probably wouldn’t require a long term DP contract. I agree that the long view is the better one to have, but I share concerns that the FO/scouting team may have left some stones unturned.
Also, those who think Lenhart would be an improvement should try watching him more. I’ll take Jaqua any day.
by moyerLIVES on Aug 15, 2011 1:26 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I had the same misconception about Costly
He’s great for Honduras, but he hasn’t managed to score many goals in leagues worse than MLS. Granted taking him on loan makes it low risk for Houston, but he wouldn’t have filled the TF/clinical finisher spot for the Sounders very well.
You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. Our yachts are all around you, there is no escape.
Chivas probably gets him if he comes to MLS
They’re still at the top of the order and need a striker like Johnson.
Quite possible
Since Johnson is neither Mexican-American nor from SoCal. They’d be stupid to pass for a third time on a USMNT player that could help them. However, I doubt the other five teams in the allocation order are quite as dumb as the Chivas USA owner (Jorge Vergara Madrigal).
Yeah, I wasn't implying that EJ might be on our radar
Just a snarky comment on Chivas
by LordIceman on Aug 15, 2011 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Probably not going to grab him
now that they have JPA. I don’t know who else might want to take him on.
Here are the canidates before us
Houston – Dominic Kinear loves his strong TF types.
Toronto FC – Aron Winter is completely overhauling the roster and might want him.
Chicago Fire – They also in rebuild mode and could use a big TF.
Sporting KC – They really don’t need another striker.
So, three teams that would probably take him. However, since the international transfer window closed, he won’t be coming to MLS until the winter window if he comes.
Blasphame
I don’t think this missed signing hurts nearly as much if Sigi isn’t insisting to playing Noonan.
Watching a 0-0 game that should have been 2-0 will do that.
I blame Sigi. Someone has to agree with me that when Zakuani comes back, he is still going to be playing the Jaqua/Noonan twins. Probably sit Fernandez again.
This is a classic Chuck Knox, “play the hand you’re dealt” scenerio, but in this case Sigi can choose his game based on his hand. Instead he is trying to play HIS game only. LIke playing Hearts after being dealt the Queen of Spades. Instead of playing Poker with his Four of a Kind.
Already stated in numerous ways
but I thought I’d add my take on things…
In my opinion, a lot of fans are spreading the blame where it doesn’t belong. Here’s some ifs:
If N’kufo stays and plays, we likely have one of the better target forwards in the league, a top offensive team (btw, we’re not bad now), and first in the league.
If Zakuani doesn’t get hacked down and put out for the season, we have one of the best, if not THE best, offensive player in the league. We’re probably first in the league.
If OBW, after finally starting to emerge after an early season “walkabout” doesn’t go down with his odd condition, we have a target forward with speed, size, and very strong passing. We’re probably first in the league.
Finally, if N’Kufo would have been honest with himself after last season and recognized that he just didn’t have another season in him, Adrian would have begun this search at the end of last season and we’d likely have one of the better DP forwards in the league, if not the best.
Lot of ifs there, I know.
In the end, Adrian did EXACTLY the right thing given the circumstances. He gave this team the best possible chance at being far better in the near future, rather than just a little better right now. I call that gutty and great leadership and the man has my vote of confidence.
by swansuite on Aug 15, 2011 8:44 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Agree
Anyone who would vote AH out as GM now is a crazy person. Sadly there seem to be many crazy people out there.
In fairness, I don't think I've seen anyone say they want AH out
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Anyone know how long the players on Tagoe's team are expected to be out for?
I wouldn’t be surprised if there is something already in the works to get Tagoe once his teammates return to health and they can afford to be without him. If he was so close to being signed that he had already signed the transfer agreement then I don’t think it’s out of the question.
Not before the European window closes.
Soonest he could leave would be January.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably more at play than just that
Tagoe wouldn’t have agreed to stay at Hoffenheim if he thought he was only going to be a stop-gap; he was already unhappy there and looking to leave, remember.
If he stayed I’m betting there was more at play than just being a fill-in until the starters come back. Plus, if he plays well during the next few months for Hoffenheim, that might hurt our chances of signing him next window.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
my take
Tagoe thinks he’s good enough to play in Bundesliga. That’s why he’s a pro. I think his coach, realizing the significant need, told him what he needed to hear. If he blows up this year, we missed the window. If he falls out of favor again, he’ll be available.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Switching gears for a bit - let's talk about Montano
He was loaned to the Impact.
Is this a loan with the option to buy? I think it will be good for Montano to get playing time as he’s clearly frustrated here. I don’t consider him starting-quality just yet though; not even sub-quality. I’m wondering how much playing time he’ll realistically get in Montreal, even at the lower division level. Curious as to why he of all players, and if Monteral inquired about him, or we ‘sold’ Montreal on helping him out with PT?
So what were our motivations for this move? Was Montano’s irritation at not getting playing time bubbling over? Did we need a spot on the roster for the remainder of the season? Is there a chance we have a non-DP person on the radar as a short-term bolster that we still plan to add and thus needed the spot?
The timing of this loan only grows the suspicion for me…
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
I wouldn't give them the option to buy
with them coming to the MLS next season. If they like him, and he performs well, I think it helps protect our other players from the draft.
I was wondering if maybe there was a wink-nod agreement about not picking Sounders players in expansion draft
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
It could work well for all parties
Montero still has the skills and could be a very good player in MLS one day. He just needs to mature and improve his decision making. However, with our current midfield assets, his loss would be manageable. Much better than say Fucito or Ianni. He’ll get plenty of game time with an expansion team.
I would imagine Montero would get plenty of game time with an expansion team
But I know you meant Montano, and I still agree
Good point here
While I think the FO muffed the transfer window up and that was a “fail” to get the help we need now, shrinking the roster makes really no sense whatsoever. I’m not sure of this officially opens up a spot for us for another player, but it definitely does not make him avail for us in CCL, US Cup, etc. I mean really, right now, the FO (via AH) has just said, “oh well, sorry our two guys did not come through, and by the way, we are going to shed even yet another skilled body.” If we aren’t adding a body soon, this move makes absolutely no sense.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, to be fair Montano wasn't going to be getting minutes this year anyway
I’m less concerned about the perceived competitive disadvantage as I am just wondering/speculating what this means as far as the roster.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Fucito doesn't seem to be getting many playing minutes either (at least MLS)
and he is our #2 striker by far. Montano and he are different players, but both have excellent intensity and passion. Why not loan Fucito as well to get him more experience.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Playing Time
Don’t need to read anything Machiavellian into this. I think it’s probably just to help him get more playing time. The reserve season is done. There are no more easier games in the USOC. Unless the team gaffes the CCCL, there just won’t be any playing time for him with the Sounders. Gives him a chance to continue to develop no matter what happens to him down the road.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
This isn't the last opportunity this year to improve the team
People are acting like it’s the end of the world, but in addition to the free transfer options discussed above there are still trades to be made within the league.
How about a trade of Ianni for Kei Kamara? SBI proposed this last week, and I still think it’s a good option.
If you can get KC to bite on this trade....
Then go for it. Just can’t see why KC would make this straight up trade. Yes, they are thin at defense. But the reason for them to trade for defense is to make a playoff run. Not going to drop KK if that’s their goal.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Kamara will cost a lot more than Ianni
I can tell you this with an extremely high level of certainty.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Playoffs
And I can’t see it happening in any form until KC is out of the playoff picture.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
With Kamara
Bunbury, Bravo, and Sapong clogging their forward chart, I’d love to get any one of them. I wonder if Bunbury is actually the one most likely to be moved. SKC has a crisis at CB, if we could get one of those guys for Ianni, it would be excellent for both teams. Ianni + allocation dollars or a draft pick?
Intriguing but a gamble
KC does look like a possible trade partner, but the Sounders aren’t overly deep at CB either and they are still playing in 3 competitions.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree
I think giving up Ianni would do as much damage as does help the team out. We really only have a surplus of midfielders.
Possible
but remember Scott has been starting league matches over Ianni recently.
by Kenneth Jung on Aug 15, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
This is true
but SKC only has 3 healthy CBs. We have 5, counting Hurtado, plus Leo can play a useful CB.
I'd be very surprised to see them move Bunbury
I know he isn’t starting, but he’s young and American and I’m sure he’s great for marketing. Maybe Sapong is the most likely trade piece?
by Kenneth Jung on Aug 15, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Sapong is their first round draft pick and playing very well
He’s probably the player least likely to be traded by KC…
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah Sapong is starting over Bunbury
and playing quite well. He’s also American, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him called up in the future over Bunbury.
What about Hassli?
or Cooper. Or Lenhart? Or Braun?
Aren’t there lower level teams looking to build for the future? In baseball parlance wouldn’t these teams be selling while we, as a contending club are a buying?
There must be a decent target man out there we can package up some picks and players to get.
We’re probably going to lose someone pretty good to Montreal anyway. May as well try and get someone useful for our 12th best player.
by Jack Brando on Aug 15, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Cooper or Lenhart might be available
Would love to think that Chivas getting JPA makes Braun available, but that seems highly unlikely.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
No Lenhart please...
I’d much rather see Sigi simply convinced to give Fucito and Neagle playing time….
Lenhart is better in the air than any current Sounder.
He’s got good size and he’s fearless.
He’s also annoying as all get out. I think we’d learn to love him.
by Jack Brando on Aug 15, 2011 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
and he has the same problem with instincts, distribution
…and occasional clumsiness as Jaqua. His antics are the sort of thing I have trouble cheering for ((i.e. not the “good” kind of annoying).
You might be surprised
MLS strike rates since ’08:
Lenhart – 18 goals in 77 matches (.23)
Jaqua – 13 goals in 74 matches (.18)
That isn’t counting Open Cup/CCL goals either, which I don’t have time to look up but I’d be surprised if Lenhart had more than Jaqua.
In other words, the difference isn’t as great as you might think. Plus Lenhart can play dirty at times, not to mention he isn’t the best guy in the lockerroom. The pros aren’t enough to outweigh the cons with Lenhart. Jaqua may not be in form at the moment, but he knows the team and doesn’t rock the boat.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed on Lenhart
… but can we hold up this discussion as Exhibit A in the “why didn’t we sign someone, anyone? even a warm body?” discussion?
by Kenneth Jung on Aug 15, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
5 goals in 14 games...
…is not a substantially more impressive credential than Jaqua’s 09-10, particularly when 3 come from a single game vs. D.C. (including an unmarked run, a follow up to a spill, and a slop goal when Hamid made a poor decision to come out?).
…but then, I don’t want Jaqua to be the solution either. Lenhart would be a marginal improvement over what we’re using, but I’m not convinced he would be significantly better than a more appropriate use of the players already on the team.
A rather unlikeable player with many of the same infuriating weaknesses as we’re dealing with at the moment, for a dubious upgrade. No thanks.
I don't want Cooper
I don’t think he’s looked very good with PDX. His PP/90 is a paltry .53. Roger’s is .8.
I also can’t see Chivas moving such a good young striker, even with JPA.
Lenhart, on the other hand, has a PP/90 of 1.01. I think he might be our best bet outside of what we could get from SKC.
Wonder if we could do a loan-swap?
Is that unprecedented?
Could we swap players for a 6-month loan? Both teams need help at the respective positions, and I think both teams would like to do better in the next window.
In the meantime, this could work out well for both teams.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Why so much Noonan hate?
Personally, I’m really rooting for the guy. He was not good at all last year, but has spent this year working back from a myriad of injuries. What an awesome story it would be if he is able to get some of his form back. If he scores 3+ goals and adds a few assists the rest of the season, in MLS, I’d consider that a success.
He is very intelligent dribbling and linking with other players. Much more intelligent than Levesque, Fucito, or Jaqua. I hope he continues to start up top. I think there’d be much less consternation about missing out on Tagoe if Noonan had put away one of those headers agains Chivas.
This is not to say I think Noonan is a great option. I think an in-league trade for someone like Lenhart, Kamara, etc. would be an excellent upgrade. But I don’t think Noonan right now is as bad of a player as he is being made out to be.
Booooooooooo
Rational decision-making based on a realistic big-picture view has NO PLACE on the internet, sir.
by Kenneth Jung on Aug 15, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
It's what he does off the ball that
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Dammit, finger hit enter by accident
It’s what he does off the ball that’s most maddening to me. That and the fact he’s not much of a finisher.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope you're right, and that there's more to him then he showed against Chivas.
What I saw was a slow and guile-less player in the build up and a sloppy finisher. I’m sure he’ll get more minutes though, so I hope there’s more to his game.
If Keane scores a winning goal on us in the playoffs
the vitriol in this thread will be nothing….
SoccerByIves Ives Galarcep
The LA Galaxy have officially announced deal with Robbie Keane as new Designated Player. No official word on Juan Pablo Angel trade yet.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 10:26 AM PDT reply actions
Ok, I wonder who this comment from the LAG president is directed at, Hmm....
@galaxyprez Tom Payne
The Galaxy have acquired Robbie Keane! I hope all Galaxy fans will be excited by this news. We needed a forward and our company came thru!
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Keane is going to be making way more than he's worth and has the "I'm just here for the money" loan clause in his contract.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Keane's the type that will bleed for any team he's on, though
by Kyle Ritter on Aug 15, 2011 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I mean, it makes sense when...
…every team he’s ever played for is a “dream come true” and the team he’s “supported since he was a boy.”
by Kyle Ritter on Aug 15, 2011 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Too early to make that claim
If Keane even scores one goal that puts the Galaxy through any round of the playoffs (or in the MLS Cup), he’ll be “worth it”. Maybe not in PP90, but if he pushed you to the next round or scored the Cup winner – that’s the ultimate goal here, right?
You don’t win cups by being thrifty – it’s just that much more impressive when you do so.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus, even just the fact he's coming to MLS
further helps the league with visibility & credibility. He chose us over the Championship – something that is worth noting.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
This is just depressing
The SS likely winners now have UK former captain Beckham, US captain Donovan and now Ireland Captain Keane. And people in this thread are comparing Sounders fans to the Yankees fans—really?
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Just going to point out that
Donovan is not, and hasn’t been for awhile, the US captain. That’s Bocanegra.
Ok, former US captain but hardly my point
Just remember that right now, in Europe (and likely most of planet Earth), ask someone about if they know the Galaxy, and they will likely say Beckham, Donovan, Keane. Ask if they know the Sounders, and they will likely say: Didn’t ManUtd trounce them 7-0 in preseason?
[sarcasm button on] But hey, we are in third place, the guys out there are trying their hardest, and what the hey, we have a shot at maybe winning something this year. And if not, there is always next year when, things will be even better.
Well, I guess its time to get back to my yacht as there is a Yankees game coming on. Toodles for now. [sarcasm button off]
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't give a crap what Europeans think about the Sounders
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Really, Do you not want a DP or player from there?
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're hardcore, Mr. Rambeau
But I do care when said Europeans don’t want to come play for our team because they know LA’s better than us.
by Kyle Ritter on Aug 15, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Show me proof that this is the case.
Players go to LA because it is LA. The Galaxy were awful hen they signed Beckham.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
The Gals' payroll is 4x the Sounders.
I’m not sure how I’m supposed to prove what you’re asking. It’s like proving that McDonalds is better than J in the B. It just sort of seems normative that a player’s going to want to go to the side that wins.
by Kyle Ritter on Aug 15, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
What are you talking about
LAG has signed two Europeans: Beckham, and now Keane. The Sounders have signed a few as well: FL10, Nkufo, & Friberg. Who are these Europeans that won’t sign with us but will sign with them? What does their payroll have anything to do with your asserting that Europeans think the Galaxy is a winning team and the Sounders aren’t? Aaron’s point is that LA is Los Angeles, aka Hollywood, and players will go there to play whether or not they’re winning.
A huge chunk of that is Beckham.
I wouldn’t want a player like Beckham on this team.
by Aaron Campeau on Aug 15, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Excellent forum post detailing the issues here
and calling out the FO for this pattern of not spending. I’m thinking the FO is far more the A’s and less the Yankees.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Except it isn't true
Seattle has spent more, continues to spend more, and intends to spend even more than that.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I don't care about players Europeans knew
I care about my team signing players they will know.
by agtk on Aug 15, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is a fair point
But look at a guy like Fredy. If he wants to get his European career kickstarted at all costs, LA, not Seattle, is where he wants to be. That side has way more global publicity and brand recognition than Sounders, like it or not. Young talent from the Americas wants to go to LA more than SEA just as much as washed up fogies do. Like I said to Aaron Campeau, I can’t prove this—it just seems reasonable to me.
by Kyle Ritter on Aug 15, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
And, frankly, we could win the triple this year and this isn't going to change
LA could finish absolute last in the standings this season and this wouldn’t change. Quite possibly European players’ thoughts about LA are about beaches, sun, weekends jetting off to royal weddings or testament matches, and retirement paychecks. Who cares? I don’t care what people elsewhere (in Europe, Asia, or Antarctica) may or may not think about the Sounders. I care about the Sounders winning now and in the future.
You could even make the case
that signing a high-profile guy from Europe that didn’t work out (and then gets unceremoniously dumped by us after 6 months) would send a worse message to prospective players than not making a move in this transfer window…. if we’re concerned with our image, that is.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Disagree
What about LA versus Dallas ? I guess LA is in the spotlight there too.
Brek Shea will never get interest ?.
If Montero were scoring goals this year, we would be in first place and not the LAGgers. He would get interest if warrented. Quite frankly, I don’t want interest anyway. I want to watch Brek Shea play next year….and I don’t mean in a game I don’t care about, Saturday at 4:30 AM.
I wonder if at this point
if Hanauer will be looking for two Forwards this off season. With Jaqua’s future here questionable, and White’s injury potentially being serious, I wonder if Hanauer might need to pickup a non-DP striker in addition to a DP anyways.
Sounds like a draft need
Ideally we pick up a DP level target forward and are able to use a draft pick on a young striker. With luck we might have a Will Bruin or CJ Sapong drop to us in the first round.
It's likely
They would have to trade up in the draft in order to make that happen.
Now this is scaring me
A post from very-knowledgeable friends without a dog in this fight looking at us right now:
You all deserve better. But until you get in the streets like they did in Toronto and demand better you’ll probably just be given “pleasant talk”.
That’s what happened in Toronto until people demanded better. Then they replaced the turf and then they brought in designated players. And by that time it was too late. They pissed away all their good will and now what used to be a full BMO field often has large sections of empty seats. We’d hate to see that happen in Seattle. It doesn’t have to but boy they are following the script to a T.
The only difference is until now you’ve gotten decent results (unlike Toronto). The scary thing is because of those decent results your front office has been lulled into thinking the team you have is better than they actually are and of course many Sounders fans want to believe that as well.
Good luck my friend.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 11:35 AM PDT reply actions
Only kind of related to this post.
Did anyone see “sold out Red Bull Arena” this weekend. They kept repeating that the game was sold out, but it only looked like half full.
Comparing the Sounders FO
to TFC’s ownership/FO is kind of a joke.
by agtk on Aug 15, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Ahh the sky is falling!
Please, the FO went after what could have been the best DP signing to date and was a single injury away from making it come true. AH mentioned he wants the player even more and I don’t doubt he’ll do everything humanly possibly to get him in the off season.
The FO has always been going for quality all along. What teams wouldn’t want a keeper as great as Keller. Who wouldn’t want Rosales or Alonso on their team. Before Zakuani’s break he was amazingly dangerous.
What I see is a FO that has learned from the past. They don’t want another Nkufo leaving us at the last possible second, or a Ljungberg who fades off in the distance and is only remembered for yelling at the refs.
This team has been competitive from day one. Our first year we were 1 win from supporter’s shield.
by Derek R on Aug 15, 2011 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
NKufo leaving or shown the door ?
Seems like quite a coincidence that NKufo “left” at the last possible second….the last possible second for the Sounders not to have to have him as a DP and the salary hit.
I think he was shown the door….
I'm a firm believer in "you're as good as your record"
We have many quality players; there’s a reason we have 42 points right now and are 3rd in the West in PPG. That’s not by luck – we have the talent & coaching. This is also our best position in the table at this point in the season in our 3 years in the MLS, so the improvement has been there.
I want a striker as much as the next guy, but let’s not pretend this team isn’t good or that the rest of the season is lost because we didn’t sign “that guy”. The fact still remains we made it this far without Nkufo, Zakuani, and OBW and there’s no reason to think we can’t continue to be competitive in the MLS.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We have a very well built team
We’re 1-2 deep with MLS starting level players at almost every position. TF and fullback being the exceptions. Baring some poor luck with injuries we’d be even deeper. Overall, the FO has done a damn fine job.
I'll leave my thoughts at this regarding this the window "fail"
I am overjoyed to have an MLS team playing in several competitions and I will be at the rest of their home games screaming my head off. And yes, we are still competitive (so far). But there are several open questions that should cause concern:
(1) Both teams in front of us right now have added international bodies in the window for the title chase, we did not and the FO really has not explained why (noting the repeating annual refrain used every window that “the dominos didn’t fall,” “we got to the one-yard line,” etc.) Our yearly record with those teams right now: 0-2-1. Are we really doing our best to be competitive with them and make a push to win Open Cup/MLS/SS?
(2) There is a pattern here of the Sounders not shelling out really big bucks for players after the original signature of Ljungberg, and that continues. If you look at three years and 5 windows, the cheapness is clear. Is the lack of finding the “best fit” really the problem here?
I will be very curious to see what, if any, moves are made prior 9/15. If any moves are for low wage bodies as I suspect (Sanyang anyone?) I will start calling AH Billy Bean and not Steinbrunner.
That said, see you at Comunicaciones.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
(1) He did explain what happened with their top two picks. And it was less of a 1 yard line and more of a
(2) From what AH has said for the top 2 choices money was not an issue. And unfortunately we don’t know what the amount offered to Tagoe was. I don’t see the FO as having a problem paying a lot for a player. The key thing is that they want to make sure the player is worth it. No good can come from draining your cash if it wont help the team.
by Derek R on Aug 15, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was a lot of money.
Multiple millions of dollars.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 15, 2011 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Money
might have been an issue with the first player (which was most likely Cisse) I don’t think he made that clear. Regardless though, the fact that we were in it shows a certain willingness to spend.
Champions league and playing in Serie A probably had something to do with it
Even if we offered the same as Lazio for a transfer/salary, a player will typically still go to Lazio – better league, better competition, etc.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Pattern of not shelling out $$?
Nkufo wasn’t a cheap player and they rewarded Montero by nearly tripling his salary in the offseason. They also paid big money for Fernandez in transfer fees so they could acquire his rights.
Just because we’re not spending Henry/Beckham/Keane/Marquez levels of cash doesn’t mean the FO is cheap.
For the record I’m disappointed as much as you are, but as long as our record is what it is, there’s only so much we can complain about. I have a friend who is a Red Bull fan, and every time I talk to him I feel much better ;-)
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
"The only difference is decent results"
Which is kinda a massive difference.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, and a different process as well
Seattle doesn’t swap players like socks
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Can you say Seahawks?
Pete Carroll might as well install a revolving door at the end of the bench.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, if your friends are really comparing a Seattle team that has been very strong
for 3 straight years and shown frequent brilliance from the FO to a Toronto team that has had a joke of a FO and a coaching carosel of the worst variety and has never made the play-offs and is the absolute laughingstock of the league on the field, then I’m not sure knowledgeable is a word I would associate with them, at least as far as MLS goes.
Transfer Window Humor (We could use some right now)
by Zack Lewis on Aug 15, 2011 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I feel his pain.
This is always a problem on my Yacht.
Per Joshua Mayers, Montano gone till next year
“Sounders FC coach said the earliest Miguel Montano would be back is next year because it’s an international transfer.”
http://twitter.com/#!/joshuamayers/status/103177885707280384
Looks like Neagle had a great practice from Arlo White
#sounders looked lively at training. Lamar Neagle with some stunning headed goals.
Hope he earns more PT
What’s Neagle’s PP90 anyway? I’m thinking it must be on the higher end of the team’s scale given how few minutes he actually gets.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
For every game Tagoe does not play for Hoffenheim, I will kick a puppy.
I can’t help feeling extremely sorry for my/ourselves. Europe is Europe, but why Cisse would choose to go to Lazio, after complaining of racism in Greece, is be-fucking-yond me. Italian football has enough issues as it is without Lazio’s supporters goosestepping around.
As for Tagoe, it’s a shame that he was hoodwinked into staying. I use the word hoodwinked because I really do not believe he is in Hoffenheim’s plans – at least not any meaningful, long-term plans. Sure, Ibesevic and Musona are injured. Ibesevic is the first choice, but I understand Musona was brought in specifically to replace Tagoe. The moment either gets fit, where will Tagoe be?
Meanwhile, here we sit, with this organization/league unable to provide enough incentive (monetary or otherwise, be it the turf field, the lack of international recognition, etc.) to encourage players who are on the outs with their club to come play in a wonderful city in front of 36,000 fans where they will likely be a star of an already successful team.
It’s clear that the Sounders still can’t swim with the big boys in the transfer market. People may blame unfortunate injuries in Hoffenheim’s squad for our current situation, but that isn’t really the issue – the issue is that we still just aren’t in a place to convince players to come here. When push came to shove, even a half chance to remain at Hoffenheim, and possibly start/get minutes for a few months was enough for Tagoe to stay.
I don’t blame AH for shooting high and attempting to get a player who would have been somewhat of a coup in MLS. But it’s pretty disappointing that he couldn’t get this ‘locked up’ sooner – that way, if it did somehow fall through, there would at least be a realistic option as backup. Cisse to Lazio happened at least a few weeks ago, if not more (too lazy to look it up). Once we were down to one target, we should have immediately had a backup plan, plain and simple.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on Aug 15, 2011 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
I agree with about everything you said
Hoffenheim can for sure offer one thing that Seattle can’t and that’s better European exposure. He’s still young enough to try and push a bigger club and I’m sure that was used to keep him.
Hold the phone
This may change the conversation entirely:
@kylejmccarthy Kyle McCarthy
MLS EVP Todd Durbin set to hold media teleconference tomorrow afternoon to announce an amendment to the Designated Player rule.
AH did refer to that, I didn’t realize he meant this week. Someone up in the thread made the reference to Calvinball=MLS. I may well have to couch all my responses with “..best as I understand the rules of the MLS which may be in place right now.”
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 15, 2011 1:10 PM PDT reply actions
And if this announcement is about the young DP thing AH was talking about
It comes at a really bad time considering it sounded like there were some younger guys AH was looking at.
young dps
expect young dps to hit the cap at a lower amount. and by ‘expect’ i hope you can read between the lines of my story.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Does Flaco get grandfathered?
If so this could be a huge windfall for us. In addition to assisting with Flaco’s hit (no longer DP?), it would also make acquiring Tagoe that much easier on the wallet. What is the consensus guess as to the age set for this rule?
If Flaco gets grandfathered, are we back down to one DP? How much is Flaco’s salary sans-transfer fee? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it anywhere.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 15, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I've Heard
people say that Flaco probably won’t be a DP next year because the transfer fee won’t count against the cap any longer. But that’s just what I’ve heard. Regardless, it sounds like Hanauer was planning on using this rule (eventually?) for a new signing, so I’m guessing it doesn’t apply for whatever reason to our existing players.
My guess
Is that if players would qualify under the new age limits, it won’t matter when they signed. That said, I’m not sure either Flaco or Montero will be young enough to qualify next year. The upper limit is probably in the 23-25 range.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
huh?
Bravo is the opposite kind of player that would be affected by this rule.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Curious
Jeremiah does the rule make any distinction between the transfer fee and salary or is it a just a flat rate against the cap for players under the age of say 25? Montero is currently 24 and Flaco is 25.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 15, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
To be fair...
I don’t actually know the exact rule. I’m basing this off the limited info I have.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 15, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Ages & the new rule
Fernandez is 25 now and turns 26 in October, so his case may not give us relief if the magic numbe ris 25 years old. If that’s the case, when does his transfer fee get paid off? Do we know what his regular salary is, sans transfer fees?
Montero turns 25 next July, so if there is grandfathering (which if they grandfathered Donovan for DP rule, I can’t see why not now) then I can see us getting relief on him.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 16, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
They're doing it right!!!
I’m really content in our management staff to be completely honest. We’re 3rd in all the MLS. We have great TEAM CHEMISTRY… And for me personally from a financial perspective Sounders FC scored big with Mauro Rosales! What more can we ask for??? Hanauer has my vote of approval!!! But what I would like to see is some HOME GROWN talent like Neagle, versus bringing some foreigner into our system. I think our club should be modeled after Arsenal!!! They run a tight ship on they’re academy which i think in long term would be better. Lets avoid spending MILLIONS on a player who is just as injury prone as the next guy!
by Jeremiah Olivarez on Aug 16, 2011 12:37 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
No Mariners
Yeah, this is definitely NOT the Mariners.
Without knowing what we almost had, it is hard think anything but it was probably exactly what we needed.
Not that they have been perfect. And no one should blame the Sounders for any of those ( unless they did going into the signings….crickets )
AH has support for a reason. The only knock is maybe protecting some in expansion drafts and letting guys like LeToux go.
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