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Seattle Sounders Still Alive For Five

TORONTO ON - NOVEMBER 21:  The Philip F. Anschutz Trophy is seen after the Colorado Rapids defeated FC Dallas 2-1 in overtime of the 2010 MLS Cup match at BMO Field on November 21 2010 in Toronto Canada.  (Photo by Harry How/Getty Images)

Last night was a pretty cool experience, above and beyond the result. Thanks to Dave (and Arlo, in a roundabout way) it was my first foray into GA. That is certainly a unique experience that I'd recommend to anyone (except maybe those bringing young children). On the one hand, it's a lot of work jumping around and singing for 90 minutes (or 120 minutes, if your team decides to let some Panamanian minnows into the game for some reason) and you lose some perspective on the match — both visually and emotionally — but you're putting yourself in the middle of the cauldron of fan energy that defines the fan experience in Seattle (and elsewhere in Cascadia). I couldn't do it every match, but it was a great evening, particularly with Dave along with Aaron and Jennifer on the other side, who were basically the party that rocks the party.

But even from the slightly chaotic perspective of GA a few things were clear from last night's match. One is that the refereeing was beyond awful. It was probably hard to control a game where one team was desperate to waste time from the first minute, but 'controlling' it by letting the team do that without any consequence, calling chippy fouls for the time-wasters, then letting hard fouls against the home team go, then distributing pretty random yellow cards (like to Rosales for a handball in the middle of the pitch or to Keller for who knows what) was a pretty bizarre strategy. It's easy to blame some kind of bias for a Costa Rican ref working a game between North Americans and Central Americans, but Solis called plenty of fouls and 50/50 balls for the Sounders that he didn't have to if he had some secret pro-San Francisco agenda. I don't think he was corrupt. He was just incompetent. Which is doubly weird when you realize that this is probably the second time you've seen Jeffrey Solis officiate a game with Americans this season. He was also in charge of the Gold Cup match between the US and Guadeloupe, and while that game also featured a home team that got a ton of chances but barely squeaked by inferior opposition, I don't remember it for being poorly officiated.

Star-divide

The other thing that stood out was Seattle's poor finishing. I generally take a statistical approach to these things and assume most of it balances out in the end, but I'm not blind. I doubt it's lack of skill. We all know these attackers can be devastating shooters on good days. I suspect at this point it's a sort of feedback loop, where players that feel they have to aim their shots perfectly just to get one in will tend to over-aim and the shots will be weak or straight at the keeper. And that just makes their confidence worse. Fredy Montero tries to chip the keeper about ten times as often as he should, probably because he's sick of his straight shots getting blocked or saved. Now it's up to Sigi to sort out the attacking confidence of the current players and Adrian to bring in someone who already has it.

Regardless of the particulars of the match, the Sounders won and are still alive in the CONCACAF Champions League, which is a pretty tremendous achievement. It's easy to get lost in the day to day twists and turns of the team, but if you step back and consider that the team lost its best (or second best, depending on the day) attacking player for the season, lost a DP striker on the opening day of the season, and lost his replacement for over half the season and is still in contention for every trophy that was on the calendar when the season opened, you can't help but be impressed at our depth and commitment.

If you count the MLS regular season trophy, the playoff trophy, the Confederation's CCL trophy, the Open Cup, and the vanity rivalry trophy (which most teams have) then there are 5 trophies up for grabs when the season starts. And only the Sounders and one other team — FC Dallas — are still in the running for all of them. The Galaxy are no longer in the US Open Cup. Nor Real Salt Lake, who also don't qualify for the CCL this season. Everyone else is realistically eliminated from the race for the Supporter's Shield. That's pretty select company, and it's something the team has achieved in only their third year of existence, which reflects this team and this community's commitment to winning — in every competition, every time they step on the field. Even against Manchester United, which is why that travesty of a result hit so many fans so hard.

To throw a little data into the conversation — because that's just how I roll — here's a list of those 5 trophies that are still up for grabs and the best odds I can come up with for the Sounders winning each of them. For competitions involving regular MLS play (which includes the Shield, MLS Cup, and the Cascadia Cup) I use the simulation we already run which takes into account schedule, scoring prowess, defense, and so on. For the others I just give each team a 50/50 chance to win each match, which is probably generous in the CCL in a group with Monterrey and pessimistic in the USOC where we have home field advantage in the semifinals and a good chance at it in the final.

CompetitionSounders' Odds
Cascadia Cup 61.6%
US Open Cup 25.0%
MLS Cup 9.5%
CCL Trophy 6.3%
Supporters Shield 6.0%

Some odds are longer than others, but we still have at least a 5% shot at every cup on the table which is not something to take for granted.

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Since all of those add up to just over 100%...

Does that mean that we have a 100% chance to win at least one of these? :P JK.

by Toxtr3m34u on Aug 4, 2011 4:04 PM PDT reply actions  

If we lose the Cascadia cup

It will be difficult for me to be happy without one of the others.

by agtk on Aug 4, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will be upset if we don't win a trophy too.

But at this point I am not sure that just winning the Cascadia cup will fully satisfy me (despite that being a very likely outcome).

by quacker27 on Aug 4, 2011 7:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Cascadia Cup = icing

Its fun to win, but certainly not a trophy that truly matters

I miss *REAL* Four Loko

by B-Lot tailgater on Aug 5, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

I should clarify though. If we do win the CC, I will be happy if we make the USOC final, progress out of the group stage in CCL, and make the Western/Eastern Semi-Finals. Two of those three would probably make me happy with the CC. Without the CC, it would probably take winning one of those or the SS for me to be satisfied with the season.

by agtk on Aug 5, 2011 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Two of these four:

1.) Win USOC
2.) Advance to knockout stages of CCL
3.) Win a playoff game/series
4.) Win Cascadia Cup

And I’ll be pretty happy

by Tohoya on Aug 5, 2011 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd be happy if we qualify for CCL next year

that means win the USOC, SS, MLS Cup or make the MLS Cup final. I’d like to advance out of the group stages of the CCL and win the Cascadia Cup but I’d trade those to qualify for CCL in 12/13.

by Colin Johnson on Aug 5, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I wish more importance were placed on the supporters shield. Would it ever be possible to change its name to “League Champions” and keep MLS cup?

by Mark Schmidt on Aug 4, 2011 4:13 PM PDT reply actions  

No

because that would reduce the impact of MLS’ signature national event.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Aug 4, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

right...

because the entire season can’t pull enough viewers outside the NW. I really dislike the familiarity MLS has with NFL in this regard. Not that any American sport actually gives the championship to the team with the best regular season record, but it would be nice to see it mean a hell of a lot more than it does right now for MLS.

by Mark Schmidt on Aug 4, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it already does mean a great deal

And they moved to strengthen it with the new playoff system. SS winner gets to play the weakest WC team that advances. The West SS winner will get to play someone like DC United or Houston in the first round; the runner up gets to play someone like Dallas or Salt Lake. Plus, entry into CCL.

All of those facts aside, there are quite a few people who consider the SS winner the “real” champion, myself included. I’d rather see the Sounders win the SS than any other trophy but the CCL. It has quite a bit of cache and will continue to have it as long as the balanced schedule persists.

by Tohoya on Aug 4, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point

However the name has always bothered me for some reason. Maybe if they just changed that it would “seem” more important.

by Mark Schmidt on Aug 4, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just read

that the SS was created by the supporters since the league wanted nothing to do with it. I GET the name now. I have so many issues with the league management and this reinforces my opinion.

by Mark Schmidt on Aug 4, 2011 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's funny how the league treats it

while the MLS cup earns all the promotions and grandeur, the SS winner gets nearly the same prize and is as or maybe more respected amongst people who understand what it means.

I’d love to see the MLB or NBA give out a similar award.

by agtk on Aug 4, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

The SS is even better.

SS gets group entry to CCL. Auto-berth to USOC. MLS Cup winner is guaranteed the former, but not the latter, based only on league table.

by Cornchops on Aug 4, 2011 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ah, yes

but the MLS Cup winner gets to visit the White House :)

by agtk on Aug 4, 2011 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

And you get a star over the crest

As cool as winning the SS is, no one remembers who won it every year. MLS Cup – despite being of less prestige to supporters – is the champion people remember each year. If you forget, you get that nice little star over the crest.

SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting

by ABTsportsline on Aug 5, 2011 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

It doesn't work in MLB and NBA

Because you don’t play an even round robin schedule, which is why playoffs exist to begin with.

I miss *REAL* Four Loko

by B-Lot tailgater on Aug 5, 2011 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Five as one

An unbalanced schedule is inevitable in this league so I hope this is as prominent as the SS gets.

by Lord Hokage on Aug 4, 2011 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you want it to mean more

just put more emphasis on it personally. The league will follow suit only when enough people have changed first. But by that time the league putting emphasis on it will not matter.

In other words we do not need them.

by lysander on Aug 5, 2011 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not being familiar with MLS

a few years ago I thought it was something the team with the largest attendance received. If that were the case we’re three-peat’n!

by Mark Schmidt on Aug 4, 2011 4:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Who else could there be?

Kitsap Pumas? Tacoma Tide? Victoria Highlanders? Boise FC? Borussia Beaverton? Spokane SC? PSV Salem?

I would love to see even more teams in Cascadia, but I don’t see it happening anytime soon, with the way the MLS is structured.

by agtk on Aug 4, 2011 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he was taking a shot at our neighbors to the north and south.

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Aug 4, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry

I was just being an ass, :-)

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Aug 5, 2011 2:33 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Same for me

Though CCL trophy gives the SS a run for most important, in my book.

by Iam333 on Aug 4, 2011 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Absolutely

In fact, I can’t believe that there is no place to get a Sounders Jersey with the Champions league badge on it. You have to sew one on yourself.

by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 5, 2011 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Alive for Five" just reminded me of Homer Simpson's "Aww, aww, aww, aww, table five, table five" bit.

Bravo.

For the Shield hunt, it’s obviously helpful that RSL and LA both lost yesterday. Dallas faces LA on Saturday, so I guess we can either hope for a draw or a Dallas win, though I’m not sure which is more beneficial for the Sounders off the top of my head. Probably the Dallas win, since the Sounders still have a chance to earn 3 points against them on the 20th.

by Greg Pirkl Lives on Aug 4, 2011 4:20 PM PDT reply actions  

It's a nearly universal sports cliche

when you lose one of your best players for a coach to somehow to say “We’ll just have to figure out a way to win without him/her.” Not all that many teams actually do that. The Sounders definitely have done a fantastic job of it this season so far and, as noted, we’ve lost a lot more than just one very good player.

by Nevtelen on Aug 4, 2011 5:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Heritage Cup makes 6?

Aren’t we still in the running for heritage cup ( former nasl teams with same name) vs San Jose – Portland and Vancouver declined. It’s still a trophy and we won it last year. Least of the least.

by Theandydan on Aug 4, 2011 6:17 PM PDT reply actions  

I guess?

I think we’re also still in the running for the Indigenous Cup, contested between teams based in cities with Native American names and includes Seattle, Kansas City, Toronto, and Chicago and which I just made up.

I’m not super excited about cups that don’t represent a rivalry or real competition.

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Aug 4, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

EA Sports

Thinks Seattle/ San Jose is a rivalry. So it must be true, right?

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Aug 4, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Gotta disagree about the officiating

Though I wouldn’t call it “good”, it was by far NOT the worst officiating I’d ever seen, and it seems like most of the critiques forget the fury of calls in Seattle’s favor in the last 45 minutes of the game. Rosales hand ball? He clearly did it for his favor, just as his flop in the box was just that -a classic flop that only a Argentine (or Uruguayan) could pull off. Keller’s yellow was also justified. Not that I like him getting a card, but we’d just pulled ahead and were delaying the game (and unlike SFFC, we were delaying the game in the last 20 minutes, not the first 20 minutes).

Just my two cents, as if anyone cared…

by Lose-Lose on Aug 4, 2011 6:20 PM PDT reply actions  

Keller's Yellow was for dissent

Within seconds of the Yellow for time wasting that came from the denial of a substitution

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart

by Dave Clark on Aug 4, 2011 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Both Yellows at the end

were for dissent according to the stat sheet i saw

by Tstuar on Aug 4, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone on the game thread

said “he wanted it” and that was totally true. He was pointing at his captain’s armband while yelling at the ref. Good stuff… as long as he doesn’t get a yellow next match.

by Patrick N on Aug 4, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't think that matters

Aren’t yellows wiped once you hit the group stage? Only a guy like Alonso will miss the next match since he had two yellows during the play-in

I thought the yellows were a bit harsh. Unless the ref had given Friberg a warning prior that none of us saw, I think first offense yellow was a bit harsh – especially since they had been doing it all match.

Anyone notice how miraculously resilient the San Francisco players were to injury once they were behind? No more Panama players rolling around on the pitch once Jaqua put that goal in… Funny how that works!

SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting

by ABTsportsline on Aug 5, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I checked the CONCACAF rules and it looks like it does not get wiped out at end of Prelim Round

6.29 Any player to accumulate two single yellow cards in two different matches in the CCL is suspended for the following game. Thereafter, each time a player accumulates two single yellow cards in two different matches, he will be suspended for the following game with the exception that single cautions will be eliminated at the end of the Group Stage and at the end of the Championship Round.

So if I am understanding the rule right, Keller, Parke, Friberg, Rosales and Fernandez would all be suspended following a second card and Alonso is suspended for the 8/16 game.

The complete rules are here.

Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!

by chrisso on Aug 5, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oops! I was a round early

Single yellows get wiped at the end of Group stage – not qualifiers. Got it, thanks!

SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting

by ABTsportsline on Aug 5, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

From my view

from the second row right off the south side 18, Rosales got hit pretty hard at the top of the box on that play. No way he could have stayed on his feet.

And about the frieberg card. I assume it was for time wasting right? He obviously had a cramp. He was holding his leg before the play was dead, then when the ball went out he sat down. How many times did san fran players do that? Frieberg should have been allowed to sit there till they brought the streacher out. Why could they have 3 people streachered off the field during the game but we get a card for time wasting? It just blows my mind.

by MurrayD on Aug 4, 2011 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Acting!!

Obviously Sigi has some new stuff to cover in practice if we want to succeed in CCL!

by Dizzo on Aug 4, 2011 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ref and timewasting

The one that got me was when Rosales was down on the pitch and the ref actually ran over a hauled him to his feet when the Sounders were ahead. Instead of letting us waste time he was carding our guys and physically stopping them. Obviously he took a different approach to the Panamanian antics.

by brokejumper on Aug 4, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

The stretchering was getting humorous by the end

Although one of the Panamanian players’ injuries looked fairly legit. Not sure it was stretcher-worthy, but the guy who caught a toe on a slide tackle and rolled all the way over his ankle looked legitimately hurt.

by Kingdomer on Aug 5, 2011 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Crying wolf...

If everyone rolls around on the pitch like they got shot each time they fall down, then i dont care when they actually have an injury.

by MurrayD on Aug 5, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I don't think you were watching the same match I was

Rosales was hit plenty hard to go down in the box. Rosales did not intentionally hand that ball at midfield that drew him the yellow. Keller’s yellow was definitely justified, and Friberg sat down because the ref refused to allow a substitution, even though it was a dead ball, not to waste time.

Not for nothing, I don’t think he would have allowed the substitution the second time, but the assistant ref got his attention and was practically waving the sub on himself.

by Kingdomer on Aug 5, 2011 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thought the officiating was awful both ways

But just because of that, doesn’t mean it was good.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 5, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree...

but i belive San Fran’s dive-a-lot style recieved more benifit than us.

by MurrayD on Aug 5, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Time Wasting and the South

I think we all know that this is part of the game South of LA. San Fransisco played the act and it was excepted by the ref., who was from the region. Seattle tries and is yellowed. Look at every time their big striker got a knock. He pointed to where it showed a mark. It’s all about show. They are good at it. We are not. The ref. bought it. I would much rather have a team that doesn’t know how to fake. I am very proud of our team.

by Camnehem on Aug 4, 2011 11:29 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

If the Panamanian league fined for simulation

The league would be the richest in the world, and the players the poorest

SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting

by ABTsportsline on Aug 5, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, seriously

I wonder if he’s really that good, or if our attack is just really that bad at putting balls in the net.

I know the answer to the latter

SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting

by ABTsportsline on Aug 5, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

He had a lot of great saves

Athletic diving saves aren’t all the positions about, obviously. Just ask Bouna. Maybe he’s bad at organizing the defense or distribution, but he’s got some potential.

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Aug 5, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

At the match I was hearing those around me say "we should sign this guy for 2012"

So yeah, his great play in goal was not unnoticed by other Sounder Fans. Can’t say I wasn’t impressed as well. I’m on board with at least giving him a workout, despite his size.

Rimando is small but he’s one of the best in the league.

SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting

by ABTsportsline on Aug 5, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's gotta be the size

During the draft it seemed like you had to be at least 6’2" to get serious consideration. Diego Restrepo had an amazing collegiate career at UVA and didn’t even get a combine invite.

Restrepo’s listed at 6’0". The San Fran keeper was much smaller than that. Rimando is very much the exception that proves the rule in MLS GKs.

by Dizzo on Aug 5, 2011 4:01 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Nice meeting you Wednesday "Mr. Real"!

The memories are a bit hazy, especially after the game. Being on vacation plus having a Sounders game will do that to you. :) I’ll buy you a beer next time you make it back into the GA.

by SoundersForever on Aug 5, 2011 2:14 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

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