CCL Schedule Released: Sounders' Season Gets Trickier
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 7, 2011 4:55 PM PDT
in Sounders: CONCACAF Champions League
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There's a reason only eight MLS teams have ever won two trophies in the same year and none have won as many as three: It's difficult. Now that the CONCACAF Champions League group stage schedule has been released, the Seattle Sounders have another reminder of just how difficult that pursuit can be.
Among the latest revelations is this nice little chunk of late-season scheduling: From Sept. 24-Oct. 8 in which the Sounders could, theoretically, play five matches in three countries in three separate competitions. The Sounders will play in at least four cities and travel nearly 8,000 miles.
The stretch will start when the Sounders visit the Vancouver Whitecaps for their final Cascadia Cup match. Just three days later, they'll face Guatemala's Comunicaciones in CONCACAF Champions League play and then have to be on the East Coast for their Oct. 1 match against the New England Revolution. The Sounders would then close out the stretch with a potential U.S. Open Cup final on Oct. 4 and their rescheduled home match against the Philadelphia Union on Oct. 8.
This should be nothing new for the Sounders, though. Last year, they faced a very similar situation during the same point in the season when they played seven matches in a 22-day stretch. Those games included three competitions in three countries as well and forced the Sounders to travel as far south as Costa Rica and as far east as Columbus, Ohio. The Sounders went 5-0-2, won their second straight U.S. Open Cup and essentially locked up a spot in the MLS Cup playoffs. The only downside was that both of those losses were in CCL play, effectively eliminating them from the competition.
The 2011 version of the Sounders does have a few advantages. The most obvious of those is the simple fact that the Sounders' roster is six players larger. Those six players should be better prepared to play significant roles than the players toward the end of the 2010's bench because they have been seeing regular time in the Reserve League. So far, 21 different Sounders have received at least four starts and 24 have seen at least some time with the first team.
It can also not be overlooked that this year's team will have considerably more room for error than last year's squad. That run of form effectively salvaged the Sounders' 2010 campaign. This year's team is positioned considerably more favorably with a playoff spot all but locked up.
There's also the not-so-insignificant point that the teams the Sounders will face are not of the same ilk. While no MLS team can be overlooked, two of three MLS teams the Sounders will face in that time are among the league's worst and the third team will be played at Century Link Field. The 2010 had to play two road games against teams that were among the league's better half.
Last year's Open Cup final was against a Columbus Crew team that was still among the better teams in MLS. If the Sounders get that far this year, they'll either face the USL-Pro's Richmond Kickers or the Chicago Fire, a team with just two MLS wins at the time of this writing.
The 2010 CCL games were against an eventual tournament semifinalist and the eventual champion. Comunicaciones is hardly a slouch, but that game also represents the Sounders' best chance for winning a CCL road game.
It's obviously too soon to make bold proclamations about how well the Sounders will fare during this stretch, but this could very well be the point in the season where we find out if this team is special or merely good.
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Comparison of priorities
This year’s team is positioned considerably more favorably with a playoff spot all but locked up.
This quote got me thinking. What should fans expect out of the 2011 MLS campaign? Is earning a playoff spot enough during this final stretch of the regular season? Would we rather advance from the group stage in CCL than win the SS?
I also wonder how much LA’s priorities will differ from ours. I suspect they will be willing to give everything else up to preserve the SS. While I think the SS would be the greatest accomplishment we can achieve this season, I think giving it up to ensure passage through the CCL may end up being necessary. The upside of possibly winning the CCL next season is probably worth the cost.
Obviously, if we actually have a truely magnificent team this season, we should expect the Cascadia Cup, another USOC, the SS, and the MLS Cup (obviously the last one still depends on a remarkable amount of luck too, no matter how good the team is). So your last point is pretty much right on:
It’s obviously too soon to make bold proclamations about how well the Sounders will fare during this stretch, but this could very well be the point in the season where we find out if this team is special or merely good.
It really depends on what happens between now and late September.
There is a good chance that by that point the supporters shield will be all but locked up by someone. If we are realistically out of that race, I could see us playing the A team for CONCACAF and obviously the US Open Cup, and using the B team for MLS.
Sounders 'til I die
by SounderJunkie on Aug 7, 2011 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, our greatest ally at this point is time
plenty of it to set the table for the Sounders before their September 10th FC Dallas game kicks off the mayhem.
It’s actually kind of a really big problem if the Galaxy stumble!
It also helps that there's little to play for outside the SS
Dropping from 2nd to 3rd in the west doesn’t really matter. Even missing out on a west bye isn’t a huge deal since we’d get put into the East if we won our WC round. (the path would still be easier with the bye, but not amazingly so).
Of course, there ARE some bragging rights that come from finishing second in the league, even if it doesn’t lead to better playoff chances.
Having to win extra games matters
Having to travel to the East Coast twice would hurt chances as well.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I like your question of what should we expect from 2011 campaign
What would be considered a success? There are two barometers here: the Sounders performance compared to the rest of league and compared to our own performance last year.
I think with the first measuring stick we’re definitely on the “satisfied” side. Our team is in a great position, one point out of second place despite losing two key starters and still being competitive in multiple competitions. Sigi has done a phenomenal job this year and I doubt few would disagree.
On the second metric? Well…. What do you guys think? Generally I think anything less than an improvement over last year’s result would be considered falling short, no? Personally I’d like to see us at least get a playoff win and a finish with more points.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 8, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, a double whould be enough
For me, winning a double would be sufficient improvement over last season to avoid falling short. However, I use the term double loosely here. I mean win any 2 of the following:
USOC
SS
MLS Cup
CCL knockout qualification
If we claim 2 of those 4 choices, I’ll call 2011 a complete success. Anything more on top of that (treble, quad, whatever) is just gravy on an already awesome season. If we claim just 1 of the 4, it would depend on which of the 4 it is before we say this season’s results were an improvement.
I've said this before, but two of these four will satisfy me:
-SS
-USOC victory
-getting out of CCL group stage
-first playoff series win
I basically just want to qualify for CCL every year.
That means we either won the USOC, SS, or MLS Cup. Or were runners up in MLS Cup.
Only the latter option would be unsatisfying to me. Unless we were there via “Eastern Conference Champions,” because I really want that “trophy” in the case.
That said, a little variety would be nice. I’d get tired of just winning the USOC every year, though it would get pretty fun after a while.
by Cornchops on Aug 8, 2011 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
I never want to lose, but...
A part of me almost wishes we had lost to San Fran so we could concentrate on the rest. I would rather win 2 than come in second in 5.
can't say i agree with this at all
but to each their own
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 7, 2011 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I take what we get
And thats three more home matches against international competition. I think everyone should make a point of coming out to at least one, if not all three. Very different experience than any other competition. Very fun too.
by agtk on Aug 7, 2011 11:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Reality
Look, I’m not saying we should ever try to lose anything, but I bet if we had lost to SF we would all be saying it was a mixed blessing now that we can focus on everything else. 6 Games thrown into our mix of MLS & USOC plus all the travel comes at a cost. Much of losing to houston was blamed on travel and being tired from the SF game. We’re going to have to hit our depth players hard the next couple of months and spread our talent more thinly across our multiple trophy goals and in each we’ll be less potent than we otherwise would if we didn’t have as many to compete in. If there was another major trophy tournament we could be in at this time I don’t think we should do that either.
Can honestly say
That if we had lost to SFFC, I would have been pissed. Sure, there’s upside, but I’d still rather be alive to compete in this tournament. I’ll take a loss to Houston, which was by no means a guaranteed win anyway, over bowing out of the CCL any day.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 8, 2011 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Personally, I really, really, really want the Sounders to beat Monterrey in Mexico
First MLS team to win a CCL game in Meixco? Yes, please. They could still not advance out of group play and I’d still be pretty happy about that. Plus another chance to watch Monterrey in Seattle is awesome. It’s fun to see what a guy like Suazo can do in person, even if it generally means he is tearing us to shreds.
by ubelmann on Aug 8, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Your assumption would be fair if we could say losing out of CCL would = MLS wins
But we can’t make that claim with any validity. At this point I’m still willing to try winning any and all matches. Saturday proves you never know when you will win, even if you’re outplayed and tired.
As another example, bowing out of the Open Cup early didn’t help NYRB focus on their league play. Extreme example, but the point is waving the flag on one competition doesn’t mean you’ll perform better in the others.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 8, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Also have to take into account the importance of each game in the comp
Losing to SF mean we were out of this year’s CCL. No going back. Losing to, say, Houston, is just a bump. Especially if the SS is likely out of reach (and it is until the Galaxy slows down) and as long as the MLS playoffs are like they are and just getting in is the important part. So I would trade the SF game for the Houston game any day of the week.
Nos Audietis
I might have felt differently if we were neck and neck with LAG for the Shield
As it stands, it seems likely that even if we had scrubbed out in both CCL and USOC early and could concentrate solely on MLS, we still probably would wind up behind them, unless they drop the ball. I’d much rather be 4th in MLS and through to the knockout stages in CCL than 2nd in MLS and out of CCL.
by Tohoya on Aug 8, 2011 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Meh
Our priorities are very competition that we are competing in. You play your best available team and do the best you can in each one. In regards to SS, our probability of winning it from where we are at right now, is not very high….I think we just continue to play mls games and not expect SS, if it happens we can be ecstatic, but it’s not likely. I’ll be happy with a USOC title, getting further in the payoffs, getting through the group stage in concacaf, etc. Any progress is good progress.
Ors*
Those aren’t all needed, there should be ors in-between each.
I think by the end of this month we should have a clear picture
If we beat FCD at starfire I love our odds to beat CHI/Richmond to win 3rd USOC. Also we will have played 2 games in CCL. If we have 3+ points we still have a shot to advance out of our group anything less and we probably don’t advance (imho). We have 2 winnable home games and the away to FCD. 10 league points in Aug and we are still able to keep serve with LA in the SS chase. So after the chips fall we can either be in the same position as we are now or know what competitions we have the best chance at.
FCD looks deadly right now
Schellas Hyndman always seems to get his team really humming heading into the playoffs. Add in a possible return of David Ferreirra and you’ve got a really difficult team to beat.
LA just exposed Dallas' weaknesses. Hopefully we paid attention
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 8, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
we are also a good set piece team this year
Lucky for us that we wont see Ferreirra until the playoffs. LA is the only team that really worries me. They have had our number since we joined the league.
by Colin Johnson on Aug 8, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
And Houston
Let’s hope we don’t have to face them at any point either
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 8, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.... I hope for
A KC game. It will be close and then we beat them in the last few minutes like we always do!
scenarios
Right now if la keep winning it is better for us to come in 4th place and get moved to the east in the playoffs then in would be to come in 2nd and have to play dallas or rsl. So I wouldn’t mind seeing us send a reserve heavy squad to new england and use a 1st team squad for the champions league and us open cup final the following week. Also id be willing to rest players as needed to give us the best chance of winning the semi final of the usoc.
by python6114 on Aug 7, 2011 10:46 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Very much disagree.
I think the risk of playing an extra game, even at home, with the parity in this league makes playing FCD or RSL in a home/away preferable.
by agtk on Aug 7, 2011 11:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
my theory
So if we get 4th and win our opener we end up being placed in a home and home against and eastern team, provieded it’s not Houston they have to fly to seattle first, while we might have played an extra match we don’t hav e to fly anywhere. So the first match of the 2nd round could be home against Columbus or Philly after they travel three time zones. Then both teams travel to the east coast, so the Sounders trade off one extra match.
That’s my theory, it seems more favorable then a home and away against either rsl or dallas.
by python6114 on Aug 8, 2011 2:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Definitely more favorable than RSL or Dallas
But it’s not like a win in the WC round is guaranteed. With all the parity and random bounces that can happen in the MLS playoffs, there’s no doubt that getting the bye is better than dropping to a WC, even if the two conferences are ridiculously unbalanced.
Getting seeded into the East does ameliorate the blow of missing out on the byes considerably, though.
One thing that it does do, though
is give us a much more winnable playoff game to start us off. That doesn’t matter for the purposes of winning the Cup, but personally, I’d like to get this “can’t win in the playoffs” monkey off our backs.
True about no gurantee
To get out of the Wildcard game, but if we finish 4th overall that could create a scenario where Portland finishes 10th and has to come to Qwest for a playoff match. That’d be a pretty epic match.
If any Sounders staff are reading this, this is what we want:
Quad.
MLS Cup
US Open
CONCACAF
World Club Cup
I have no idea if they all count as one season, but screw it. Just keep playing and winning. Next year, toss in the Supporter’s Shield and/or another thorough emasculation of Portland, we’ll be just fine.
I don't think you need to worry...
That’s what they want too.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Aug 8, 2011 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll be fine so long as next summer we enter and dominate the Herbalife World Football Challenge™
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on Aug 7, 2011 10:51 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Maybe we just send the Reserve team to New England?
Our starters folded to cruddy Revs sides in September at Gillette 2-1 in 2009 and 3-1 in 2010. Their hearts clearly aren’t into the late-season, cross-country flight and this year it’ll be even worse coming out of Guatemala. Send the starters home and let the youngsters tangle with Shalrie Joseph and Co. I’m only half-kidding.
You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. We are all around you, there is no escape.
by 108Ultra on Aug 8, 2011 9:12 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
It's not a bad idea
The Revs are bad. And our reserves are pretty darn good. Just look at the lineup we’ll be rolling out in the reserve league game this week. Fucito, White, Friberg, Evans…that’s some MLS quality talent.
Plenty of time to figure it out too
Much could change in CCL or MLS in the next 6 weeks and the sample size is tiny. I think this is really about me still being bitter about having flown to Boston in 2009 only to see the Sounders lose while I froze in that mausoleum of a stadium.
You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. We are all around you, there is no escape.
I was hoping it would be a pleasurable diversion to a visit to my wife's family
Boy was I mistaken.
You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. We are all around you, there is no escape.
Supporter's Shield Odds
On a whim I compared the remaining MLS schedules of the Sounders and Galaxy.
Both teams play Columbus, RSL, Vancouver, SJ and Chivas. Both teams play RSL, SJ and Chivas at home. We play Vancouver away and Columbus at home. They play Vancouver at home and Columbus away. Slight advantage to the Sounders in getting to play Columbus at home, but otherwise a wash.
The Galaxy play four other MLS games: NYRB, Houston and KC away and Colorado at home.
The Sounders play five additional games: FCD, NE and Chivas away, DC and Philly at home.
On paper, the Sounders have the more favorable MLS schedule. But the Sounders are still playing in the USOC tournament and the chances of making up 8 points with only 30 points still possible is unlikely. Not impossible. But unlikely.
I ultimately want to see the Sounders win Supporter’s Shields. But realistically this year isn’t going to be the first. I’m glad they are competing for the honor. As they gain more seniority they should gain some stability and long term awareness of one another as a team. I certainly fancy their chances moving forward. But this year I will be content with a serious run at the MLS cup, another USOC and a serious run at the Concacaf CL. If the Galaxy falter, I won’t complain, but I’m not expecting it.
Regardless of priorities
The FO would be insane to not fully fill out our roster asap as we have serious fixture congestion coming up starting next week—games on 8/13,16,20,23,27,30. And as Jeremiah noted, the end of Sept ain’t pretty either. We have a spot open and I can’t imagine that we could not/would not at least get a body in there that is better than our worst first stringer. I’d love a great DP, but by the same token, at a minimum, we need a body. I am really surprised that they are letting it hang this long as our new guy is badly needed starting next week.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 8, 2011 10:22 AM PDT reply actions
Transfer pending
I get the sense that the FO is working on a couple of possible transfers, but that the complexity of the international transfer market is causing it to be a bit of a slog. My guess is that they have a Plan A they want to accomplish and a Plan B or maybe even C if it looks as if Plan A isn’t going to happen in time. The transfer window closes next Monday, 15 AUG and I would be surprised if the FO doesn’t announce something this week.
by Abbott Smith on Aug 8, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
International transfer complexity is the same to all MLS teams
yet other teams have managed to make signings.
We have a week. Can Adrian & Co. do it? I certainly hope so. I can’t begin to describe how frustrated I’ll be if no players are added by the end of the window. I would think a loan at least, if no player signed.
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 8, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How good have the other signings been?
Granted, it’s difficult to judge signings this far in, but I’m pretty underwhelmed with what the summer transfer window’s brought to MLS.
Admittedly it's been mixed
but I’ve never been a fan of using other teams’ results as the measuring stick of what’s possible by adding talent in a window. We added Nkufo last year and despite the unceremonious exit at the beginning of this season, he was instrumental to us in our 2010 playoff run. Ergo, an impactful signing in the summer window is not only very possible – but we did it just last year.
Overall, the additions to all MLS teams – regardless of when they were signed – will be mixed. I don’t know if you can point to the summer window being a reason for failure any more than one could point to a signing in the offseason being the reason for success.
Koevermans has worked out pretty well for TFC. If I followed the MLS as much as some of our better stat guys here I’m sure I could mention other examples. This is all not the point here though, obviously. :)
SSFC | What I do for fun: Sometimes-Interesting
by ABTsportsline on Aug 8, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree on Nkufo
He definitely helped our playoff run. I don’t think we can look at other teams though to decide what we do. My thought is that if we can’t add one person that we could see in a starting XI—not necessarily the main starting XI—as we go through fixture hell here, then something is wrong. We have just seen several trialists come through that could fit that bill. I’ve gotta think that the conspiracy theorists are right here, we have a plan A that we are playing chicken with as the window’s close draws near—a Tagoe, Carew, etc.
by Brougham Hooligan on Aug 8, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Which trialist would be a starter?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Other teams also had much greater needs
Seattle is a good tream trying to become great.
Most teams adding are average or worse trying be get to the playoffs.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
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