Nos Audietis, Episode 26: Mauro Nooooooooooooooo
by Aaron Campeau on Sep 22, 2011 7:17 PM PDT
in Sounders: Podcasts
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We've got a lot to talk about this time out; the Sounders waxing of DC United, the loss of Mauro Rosales, the loss to CS Herediano, Seattle's final Cascadia Cup match of the season this Saturday against the Vancouver Whitecaps and the future of Nate Jaqua and Pat Noonan are all discussed at length.
Dave joined us this week to talk about Vancouver's standing as rivals to the Sounders, and Mike Fucito came up as well (as one might imagine.) We've also got listener questions, and a few of them are even about soccer! But most of them are still about yachts and caviar and ice sculptures.
Also, as an aside, you might be able to tell that I was recovering from a cold while this was being recorded. (Still am, in fact! It's like the first robin of spring. Except with more snot.) So, there are a few sniffles here and there. Sorry everyone!
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Intro music: "PCP" - Steve and Mr. Pants
Ending Music: "Lazy" - Gosprom ("Lazy" Single)
"Lazy" is used under an Attribution Non-Commercial ShareAlike 3.0 United States (CC-BY-NC-SA 3.0) License and is provided by FreeMusicArchive.Org
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Where the heck does this comment keep coming from?
“Hindsight”
The points about lineup weakness were made well in advance of Herediano gametime and are a natural extension of arguments made for much of the season. Malcontentjake linking to his on-point month-old commentary on Rosales and Fernandez makes it pretty silly as well. The struggle was predicted (just as an example. It WAS, also, something that could have been mitigated. Losing the easiest of our three remaining group play matches doesn’t sting any less for the comment that the lineup we had “could” have won. “Could have happened”s concerning the strong the strong play of the keeper need to be balanced against events like the early lapse that mercifully led to the shot off the post.
Thanks for the podcast, guys. Keep up the good work…
I'm not sure what Jake's story has to do with one loss to the Herediano
or, for that matter, what it has to do with complaints about substitution patterns in the DC United match.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 22, 2011 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Jake's story had to do with the importance...
of Fernandez and Rosales, which was a considerable portion of my argument as well.
They are important...
But what does that have to do with pulling Montero in the 45th minute as opposed to the 78th?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 23, 2011 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions
When did I ever claim the arguments were identical?
My point was that the function of the Sounders offense relies on a specific core group of creative attackers of which Fernandez and Rosales are a part (as such, Jake’s post is on-topic). To Sigi’s credit, even in secondary fixtures this core group has pretty much always had a representative. Even against Kitsap, Alonso was a key starter. Fernandez has had several important appearances mingled with the reserves, of which Monterrey is the centerpiece I argued that it’s likely the lineup will struggle when none of Montero, Alonso, Fernandez, or Rosales (a secondary argument could possibly be made for Friberg) take the field for a substantial part of the game (a point you and Aaron supported yourselves by noting that the Sounders had plenty of chances AFTER Fredy and Ossie were subbed in).
-Personnel arrangements could have reasonably made to allow Montero or Alonso substantial minutes against Herediano, significantly improving the team’s chances.
-Such individual changes whether in substitution timing or rest days would have still left the lineup vs. DC very strong
-The struggles of the offensive starters vs. Herediano are nothing new.
No one argues against any of that on the show, tho
The idea that Sigi made some huge tactical blunder by not pulling Montero or Rosales earlier in the DC United match is the only point we’re arguing against. Everything you’re saying here is true.
Thing is, you weren’t calling it a reasonable accommodation the other day. You made it sound like it was the only sensible choice. That’s the part that Aaron and I disagree with.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 23, 2011 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
"huge tactical blunder"
Bringing my original wording back into this…
Overall the team has done an outstanding job of juggling playing time under fixture congestion duress. I think we can legitimately say that this is a particularly harsh circumstance that probably could have been handled better/differently (imho). Levesque, Noonan and even Jaqua have had some effective moments this season, but at least someone from the core of this team (Montero, Fernandez, Rosales, Alonso) tends to need to be on the field for this to happen. Whatever lineup juggling you’re planning, make sure one of those players is in the game.
My phrasing has been rather consistent, and never sounded anything like the paraphrase above. There were basic, simple, low-risk changes which could have improved the lineup vs. Herediano significantly. If pressed, I’d say that Sigi had more faith than I’d like in the players he put out there and that he felt comfortable with the team’s standing in the group stage.
The latter is problematic, facing an away CCL game on long travel in a venue which took down Monterrey quite recently, and then a home game against the defending champs. It’s quite possible for Seattle not to win the group, and it remains possible for Seattle to not advance. I’d rather not have either scenario coming about saying a non-injury sub at 45’ or 60’ is somehow unreasonable, or that resting someone from the first 11 for a home game against a fringe MLS playoff contender is a non-starter.
“Huge tactical blunder?,” no… as I’ve stated consistently: an error worthy of simple criticism.
of course you also said this
resting key players in anticipation of important midweek games…
is pretty common to my limited experience. If the choice comes down to taking off 1 starter from a home game you’re winning 2-0 and not having a creative attacker in your key cup match, the former clearly represents better risk management.
The idea that your suggestion “clearly represents better risk management” is more the second-guessing to which I was referring.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 23, 2011 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
and i stand by that completely...
at half, as you guys yourself said, the D.C. game was pretty much over. The likelihood of giving up the lead was extremely low. The likelihood of the planned lineup for Herediano struggling offensively was quite high. Simply as a matter of evaluating probable results, subbing Montero off at 45’ would have been better risk management if it allowed him a start Tuesday.
At half time against DC
Sigi should have known that neither Mike Fucito or Mauro Rosales would be able to play on Tuesday?
I’m certain that Sigi’s idea didn’t plan to be missing both of them.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
As I believe you yourself have noted...
Rosales was an unlikely starter on Tuesday regardless of injury. Whatever evaluations of durability or fitness have been made, it seems that the team would prefer discretion for Mauro when it comes to CCL games and fixture congestion. The decision to leave him in for the 90 against D.C. further supports that point.
I’m as much of a Fucito acolyte as anyone. His speed and aggressiveness do create opportunities and his ability to feed other players on offense is underrated, but he is quite deliberately not in the list of players I noted as essential.
I think the strategy going into DC but looking at Herediano
Was for Fucito and Jaqua to start. A pairing that was quite effective.
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Sounder At Heart
occasionally, but...
Jaqua and Fucito have been the starting pairing up top three times this season in meaningful games: away at Chicago and Salt Lake. Home against Kitsap. In those three games the Sounders scored while both were on the field only against Kitsap.
…and, of course, there was at least one of my core list in all three of those lineups. Fucito and Jaqua link up decently, but that strategy wouldn’t instill as much confidence as having Montero available.
Holding them responsible for a missed PK seems odd
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Sounder At Heart
point conceded on the salt lake game...
IF starting Fucito was part of Sigi’s plan for Herediano I’m happier with his decision making, while nevertheless leaving questions why Fucito would have been left on, taking a beating, until 67’ or why, following Fucito’s injury, Montero was left on til 78’.
This argument is probably now taking up more bytes than was ever intended, and certainly given me space to make as much criticism of Sigi as I ever intended. I hope the mistake/poor play of the Herediano game doesn’t come back to bite us wrt changing our CCL fortunes.
the good news is that the fortunes haven't changed
no matter what they still would need a point to go through
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
winning the group...
is not a negligible concern, and a win would have meant a close loss against Comunicaciones could still allow us through (needing a point in either case is inaccurate).
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