Portland Timbers To Launch Academy, Already Fighting High Schools
by Dave Clark on Sep 26, 2011 8:45 AM PDT
in Sounders: Academy, U23 PDL and Reserves
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PrintThe Seattle Sounders relative easy access to Clark County, Washington talents (Nick Palodichuk, Mikhail Doholis) will shortly be coming to an end as the Portland Timbers will be selecting their U-16 and U-18 players come spring 2012. While some criticized that the Sounders took over a top level Academy program to springboard their launch, the Timbers are even more aggressive taking over the whole of the Oregon Olympic Development Program (though still have catchment limits on HGP signings). The primary difference is that unlike the Sounders Academy Portland will be likely be requiring their players to abandon their high school programs.
On the East Coast this is common. And the conflict there between established high schools (who would develop a player up until Academy selection and then lose the player) have been noted in the Washington Post. The Northwest Region of the USSDA actually takes a break for high school soccer, but if an Academy had enough of its players not in playing for their school they could participate in non-divisional play flying around the country.
From the original link a local Oregon athletic director notes;
"We seem to dominate football and basketball and baseball in the world, and last I checked, those kids still get to finish with their high school teams," said Southridge athletic director Bryan Sorenson, the Metro League soccer chairperson. "I just wish there could be some dialogue."
Finding a balance between high school athletics and what is an advanced level of club soccer can be difficult. The Academies do greatly reduce costs on the families as they are supported by a fully pro-level. But they demand travel, and the opportunity to practice with the Senior team is more than just a morale boost. Both of those though can demand the cooperation of school administrators.
Going to odds with those administrators from the start could mean that fewer players are dismissed from class for cross-country trips or training. And while Gavin Wilkinson says that the point of high school is to go to college, he is setting up a circumstance that may reduce the academic standing of the players. It is clear that the high schools currently feel at odds with the Timbers.
For a team that waited so long to establish their Academy, a year longer than the Sounders, and three years longer than any expansion team should, why take an aggressive stance against people who are in essence your fans?
Odder yet, why try to sow the same discord in the state of Washington?
Wilkinson said he believes that policy will soon change for the Sounders, and most MLS teams. Miller [Washington Interscholastic Activities Association assistant executive director] he has not heard that from the Sounders.
All who love the game should be working in partnership in their communities, not directly in conflict with the desires of current and future fans.
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I'm sorry
but the “We seem to dominate football and basketball and baseball in the world” comment makes no sense to me.
1) They are all American sports.
2) I wouldn’t say we dominate baseball anymore, although technically Puerto Rico is tied to the U.S., the D.R. and others are not
3) While we can still say we are the dominant basketball team in the world, the gap has shrunk greatly since the other countries starting actually playing it and probably run their youth systems like they do their "soccer’ programs.
That’s the difference though. That is asking a lot of parents/kids if you make education less of a priority when they’re 12 and then it turns out maybe they weren’t good enough to be a pro…then what?
Sounders FC & Gunner's Supporter
if they can't go pro
there is still a decent chance they are good enough to earn a college scholarship somewhere.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Sep 26, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Not if they aren't students first
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Sounder At Heart
Uneducated and not good enough to be pros?
Guess they’ll have to ref.
First point is irrelevant because they still are the main sports of the three highest-grossing leagues in the world.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Sep 26, 2011 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would it be irrelevant?
The argument was that the US dominates those sports. Well, of course we dominate them. We’re practically the only people that play them.
Which of course isn’t true about baseball (and therefore it’s not true we dominate baseball).
Nos Audietis
Except the US does dominate baseball
and it isn’t true about basketball not being global either.
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Not sure about dominating MLB
we have the most players, but. . 2010 NL MVP voting:
1. Votto (Canada)
2. Pujols (Dominican)
3. Gonzalez (Venezuela)
AL MVP:
1. Hamilton (US)
2. Cabrera (Venezuela)
3. Cano (Dominican)
The AL Cy Young was won by a Venezuelan, etc.
Nos Audietis
And Olympics..
US took bronze in 2008. Not sure there’s much evidence that we dominate.
Nos Audietis
Would you judge a soccer nation by performance in the Olympics?
Why judge baseball that way?
IIRC the ’08 Olympics was non-affiliated minor leaguers
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Or you could look at the total number of players from USA
despite more playing in other countries now. Or the All-Stars (a deeper ballot)
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Well, that's like most EPL players being British
Visa and logistics issues mean that the bulk of any domestic league will be domestic players.
Do you seriously think a US national team would reliably beat a Venezuelan team that had Felix Hernandez starting and had Miguel Cabrera and Carlos Gonzalez in the heart of the order? Dominant means our best team should reliably crush any other country’s best team (as per basketball, usually. . and definitely in american football).
Nos Audietis
Yes, I do
because it has happened in the World Baseball Classic. Now the US loses to Japan, but the US also doesn’t send its 100% best team.
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USSDA Requirement
The high schools up there are going to just have to get used to it. The USSDA is working toward going full-year. It’s being implemented this year in Texas and SoCal. So in reality, it’s not anything the Timbers really have much of a say in. If they’re going to field a youth team, in the USSDA, that’s the season they’ll be playing. As far as I know, Philadelphia is the only MLS team that isn’t fielding a named team in the USSDA, instead choosing to affiliate with top level local youth teams. Which are still probably in the USSDA, and so still will have the same issue.
Here’s a news article about it: http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Development-Academy/2011/09/2011-12-US-Soccer-Development-Academy-to-Kick-Off-Fifth-Season.aspx
DC United allows play in both
And they are in a full year division. They also have either the best or 2nd best Academy (Dallas)
Also, per your note, even a team in a 10 month division is still allowing their players to play high school.
Brian Straus noted over twitter that college coaches prefer players that have high school experience because they actually deal with playing in front of fans/pressure.
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I get that it might be better for development in the long run
but High School sports are important too. It would be nice if there was a way to have them work together.
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
Seems like a flawed strategy to me
My guess is that the TImber’s strategy here is going to result in them attracting two types of kids. (1) The one kid a year who has half a chance, and who they really go all in on. (2) The kids whose parents are wealthy enough to pay for tutors and/or pick a private high school that will allow the kids to miss days of school to fly around playing games. But why take such a draconian stance if you are only interested in a small handful of kids?
Sounders are probably smart to allow their kids to play in high school. In truth, at any given time there are likely only 2 or 3 kids in the entire state of Washington that the Sounders would truly be interested in in. Seems like it would be easy to focus resources and attention on those kids without sticking their thumb in the eye of the high schools.
I think it is decisions like this that show the difference between the Sounders management and the Timbers. Carey and Hanauer have gone all in on promoting the Sounders to the community and to their fans. Their hiring decisions and their actions reflect this view that the Sounders should be part of the community.
The Timbers are owned by a former Goldman Sachs banker. Their first decision was to run the minor-league baseball team out of town. They decided to hire a jerk as head coach. And now they are forcing their fan base to choose between them and their high schools.
So far the good guys are accumulating silverware in the trophy case. Hopefully that continues.
What?
The Timbers are owned by a former Goldman Sachs banker. Their first decision was to run the minor-league baseball team out of town. They decided to hire a jerk as head coach. And now they are forcing their fan base to choose between them and their high schools.
The baseball team was run out of town by an inept city council that was unwilling to tear down the eyesore that is the memorial coliseum and build a first class minor league baseball stadium. It also didn’t help that every other stadium option was shot down by residents of the neighborhoods they were in. Paulson didn’t run the Beavers out of town, Portland residents did.
You may think Spencer is a jerk but Timbers fans love him and part of the reason we do is because he is so good at tweaking our northern rivals.
As far as choosing between the Timbers and High Schools, I might be wrong, but I think a number of our best high school kids have already picked their club teams over their HS teams. I get that our teams are rivals, but this comment is way off base. Based on the comment below, it looks like the Sounders are moving in the same direction.
By the way, congrats on the first piece of hardware, I wish the Portland vs. Seattle games were later in the season that would be a lot of fun. Good luck tomorrow, I’ll be pulling for you.
Personally, I'm sort of jealous that you guys have Spencer.
Sure, I wouldn’t trade Sigi for anything, but Spencer is a straight shooter, and that’s something I really appreciate.
I did hear from someone in Sounders FO late last week
that the Sounders are going to ban high school play for their academy players as well. Apparently, they just had a meeting on this. I am really torn on this too. Especially with the local Premier teams also either actively banning or de facto banning via scheduling, school soccer.
by Brougham Hooligan on Sep 26, 2011 10:32 AM PDT reply actions
I'll check with the team
This idea could have changed a handful of players availability, including a few of their best.
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I'm not even the least bit torn on this
High school and their ilk are the bane of professional development in this country. While they certainly served a very important purpose over the years (much of our MLS pool would not exist without them), there really isn’t any robbing of talent here. Many kids in the King and Snohomish Counties who have had the talent have eschewed high school in favor of club ball. As you’ve noted, that can be an expensive proposition. To me, this is the natural progression of developing top level athletes in school (where, imo, it simply doesn’t belong) to putting those kids into programs that can best feed them AND ultimately foot the bill for lower income kids with talent. I don’t see that as a bad thing. In fact, I’d go you one more: I’d like to see the NFL and NBA step up and begin implementing these programs for kids who really aren’t interested in a higher education. Conversely, I’m looking forward to REAL student athletes playing the game again the college level. Kids who will commit for four/five years AND focus on getting an education.
Yes, it’s going to be a painful transition with plenty of missteps along the way. But, ultimately, I believe this system, as it evolves, will better serve every athlete and student athlete.
by swansuite on Sep 26, 2011 10:46 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Believe
I really think that the soccer teams believe they win this battle and it will be better.
First of all, having pay to play programs are missing out on very good players who develop late, want to have a back up plan, etc.
Second of all it doesn’t fit into a kids life path….at all.
They try to force these kids not to go to college and play ball there, also. It is a lost cause. Like some parent is really going to say, yeah son give everything up to be a slave for the MLS ( while NOT getting an education ) and if you are good, then they will pay you. Not really that much, but they will pay you. After your short career, you can get a job without an education.
I wonder how Ryan Hermann is doing at Santa Clara anyway ?
Thirdly, did NO ONE at MLS read Moneyball. Not one guy ? MLS is the epitome of the Oakland A’s of the soccer world.
by Charles J on Sep 26, 2011 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Herman
he’s probably red-shirting, which is an interesting addition to the topic.
On the one hand, here’s an example of someone who basically won’t be playing competitive soccer for an entire year (except maybe some time on a SoCal PDL team?) during a critical phase of his development. That’s the kind of thing that drives pro teams, USMNT fans, and euro-soccer fans crazy.
On the other hand, from Herman’s perspective, a tiny percentage of youth soccer players. . even very good ones. . can ever make a career out of it, so it’s in his best interest to work on his degree now anyway. College soccer basically gives them a hedge where they can get a scholarship towards a degree that’s more likely to lead to a job later and still play enough soccer to have a shot at the pros.
The question is whether that ‘enough soccer’ is really enough to develop future stars.
Nos Audietis
College players can still play all summer for PDL and MLS reserve teams as well, correct?
So Herman is going to miss this year at Santa Clara, but really, what is the difference between he and Ford, except Ford practiced against much better competition? Neither of them played in games.
Meredith probably had the most productive year of the 3 as at least he started a full season of PDL games.
College + Reserve games in the summer is probably a very good route for Academy products.
Redshirting
I redshirted (not soccer ), you develop more in your redshirt season than you do in your seasons you are trying to show you are top dog.
Whenever I hear negatives toward rec leagues and school sports I just shut off my listening.
PLAYER DEVELOPMENT is always the term thrown around.
First of all, 99.9% of us will not play in MLS.
Second of all, I want millions and millions of kids playing soccer. That is the way soccer will develop in this country. NOT having a handful of kids play for some wonder coach in the same system controlled by the same coaches.
Sure you can point to a few players that went through a system in Florida. I can point to WAY more that didn’t and say if they had gone the school sports routes they would have made it anyway….and in my opinion would have been better.
I want a coach at Akron to rise up out of nowhere and show how good a team of 18-22 year olds can be. It will happen many times from now on, I guess the “MLS slavery” guys don’t want that ?
Lastly, virtually every Olympic sport in the world is using the school sport systems, and the US ( and MANY other countries ) are doing fine in DEVELOPING TALENT. Maybe you don’t like it for track, volleyball, baseball, etc. We will just have to disagree. I think the organization of school sports is the reason, the US will be great very soon.
I have never really liked the idea of school sports. To me schools should focus on education. But I do agree the more important thing is not what type of development they get but rather that we have as many kids as possible playing and liking the sport and seeing a future in it. If they are exposed and are driven to do well, they will do so regardless of the path they take.
Just my 2 cents on hs soccer
Don’t know how it is here, but I covered prep soccer for about five years in California and can say with some authority that it is a horrible way to train future professionals. Most teams are closer to american football than the kind of football we want these kids playing. They are unbelievably physical games with little skill and a near 100 percent focus on results. I saw more fist fights break out in soccer matches than every other prep sport I covered combined. I can’t say I blame any pro team from actively discouraging or even banning their kids from playing prep soccer.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
I played for my High School in this area
I’m 25 so things probably have changed since i was in high school but your assement is pretty accurate from my experience.
I always just wonder how much differance the 2 or 3 months involved in High School sports can have on the growth of a player. Most players aren’t going to make it as pros so the life experience of representing your peers and high school friends is something that should be considered.
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
This is true...
But I’m more worried about kids getting real injuries that come with reckless tackles and flying fists. At least that’s what I’d be worried about if I was running the academy.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 26, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats a good point
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
The greater good...
The football style/quality in american high school is terrible, and has ruined many a generation of player…
The average national-level U-16 club would wipe the floor with ANY Portland-area varsity squad. High school coaches regularly sacrifice individual player quality for team results. Let’s stop cheating the truly elite kids and let them play to their true potential, please…
by Sherman Shermanov on Sep 26, 2011 4:03 PM PDT reply actions
Nothing is cheating them by allowing them to do both
as the Sounders and DC United do.
There is no reason for this to be an either or situation
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Sounders took over WA's ODP too
A bit more unfair here considering Crossfire has an Academy here too. My guess is that most youth coaches would be upset is their players were wearing Crossfire kits for ODP. Somehow its okay to wear Sounders kits instead?
That isn't really an indication that they took over ALL of the ODP
That’s an indication that they have a pre-Academy team that participates in ODP.
The Timbers will run EVERY ODP team.
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Sounder At Heart
school vs club
this debate is always happening. I see both as great experiences.
Obviously playing for an academy or club will get a player better coaching and better competition. There is no doubt about this.
However, when playing for a club, who are you playing for? Pretty much you are playing for yourself. This is not a bad thing, just different than a school.
Playing for your high school can help a player in many ways that a club/academy cannot. For one, in high school you are playing for your school. This is a different type of pressure. Playing high school sports can also add to you social status. If you’re the star in high school, it can elevate your social standing, and help you learn to deal with this sort of “stardom” that you do not receive from club/academy teams.
Another benefit of high could be your place on the team. For example, the 2nd guy of the bench of his club/academy team could be the star & captian of his/her high school team. The player can develop their leadership qualities that they couldn’t at the club/academy level. They may also need to play other positions. Maybe they’re an outside back for club, but the center mid for high school. Playing multiple positions is always good for development. I’m sure we all know Hope Solo was a goal scoring maching for Richland HS while being a GK for ODP.
I remember an interview w/ McGrath recently where he stated in some way that that playing soccer in many different settings is great for development of a player.
I hate to see players kept off high school teams. I just think their are too many positives. The two programs need to work together, not compete with each other. This works great with baseball and basketball.
by Travis_Mc on Sep 27, 2011 8:42 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
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