Seattle Sounders At New England Revolution - Lineup Card And Statistics Show Depth
by Dave Clark on Sep 30, 2011 9:36 AM PDT
in Sounders: MLS Regular Season
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Some managers in the world will tell you before a match exactly who is going to start and what shape they are going to use. Others don't have fixture congestion and so their first team minus injuries is going to get the play - say the New England Revolution. For the Seattle Sounders Coach Sigi Schmid has depth to make tactical moves (inserting Zach Scott as right back to shut down a winger) and play near split-squads as he competes in three concurrent tournaments. After updates on injures (Pat Noonan seems out, James Riley and Roger Levesque seem available, and Mauro Rosales unlikely) he indicated that he brought nearly the whole team. It seems as if only Steve Zakuani, O'Brian White and Terry Boss didn't head out to New England, but everyone else is there. Then, during the conference call yesterday he said the following;
As I always say, going into each game we look at each game individually. We have a plan in terms of looking at a group of games as well, but then we sort of evaluate and see which players are recovered well, which players are ready to go, who needs some minutes, who doesn’t need some minutes. It’s not going to be the same team that played against Comunicaciones, but it’s not going to be a team of trying to rest everybody either. It’s going to be an individual decision as to each player as to where we feel they’re at.
At times we have referred to the lineup card as a projection, others a guess. In this case though it is an example of a how deep this Sounders side is. They can run this lineup and it wouldn't cause mass depression. It is similar, though weaker than the lineup that beat Monterrey. The Revolution are not Monterrey. Steve at the Bent Musket provided the projection for Steve Nicol's side.
It isn't impossible that either/both of Michael Tetteh and David Estrada get a run. No game prior to the MLS Cup Playoffs matters as much as the Tuesday night US Open Cup Final agains the Chicago Fire. Sigi and squad can afford to rest several of their first teamers while developing some of their depth through playing a competitive match. Extended runs of Nate Jaqua, Patrick Ianni, Roger Levesque and/or Sammy Ochoa can help towards decision making not just for the future, but for playing time in games that matter as Seattle tries to grab multiple trophies.
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I'm looking forward to watching Ford play.
I’ve never been too impressed with Boss and I really want to see what Ford is made of.
Keller
Honestly Keller – and I know this, for right and wrong, mostly right, is such a taboo subject, no one ever brings up, perhaps for good reason – has allowed over 75% of our goals single handedly in the last few weeks by playing kind of like garbage so…. This is actually the one place on this card I think we might improve here. …..
by RalfZakuani on Sep 30, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
How many goals do you think he’s saved? Seems like that should count against that. Keeper’s make mistakes, you have to live with that. He makes many more saves than mistakes though, so this argument seems ridiculous to me.
Boo! Tomorrow AM. I want all things now!
by Perrinbar on Sep 30, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Partially agree
He’s seemed a little shakier lately, the own goal, the missed punch against Communicaciones. However, he’s still had some great saves during that stretch and kept us in games. Either way, I doubt Ford could be an improvement.
Recessionproof since 2009.
by 253Sounder on Sep 30, 2011 10:28 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't say...
… Keller has been playing like garbage. Mistakes happen, and sometimes, you get beat by good players who make good, challenging shots. You can spin the statistics on anything. If Alonso wins 77% of his challenges, if he has a bad game and loses 37% you wouldn’t say he sucks.
I’d like to see Ford in goal too, but lets set him up for success by putting a team out there that communicates with each other and puts him in a situation to succeed. This will be his first appearance of the season. Anxiety could be its own X factor…
Soccer is simple, but it is difficult to play simple.
by Nathan Salmon on Sep 30, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
No-one ever brings it up
Because it’s utter bobbins. But let’s pretend this 75% figure is something other than twaddle, pie in the sky, a nonsense, and take a serious look at the goals we’ve conceded over the past month.
Keller was clearly responsible for the first goal against RSL, and he misjudged his punch against Comunicaciones, so we can count those two against him. Apart from that? He had no chance with the second RSL goal and was hung out to dry by the defence for Comunicaciones’ opener; the two Herediano goals were a PK and an extremely good free kick; and the goal conceded against Vancouver was a sweeping move that cut apart the defence and left him alone to face two attackers. During that same period, meanwhile, he’s averaged 3.33 saves per game (20 saves in 6) and his GAA for the month is 1.167 (7 in 6), which is worse than his MLS season average of 1.07, but for comparison would still be good enough in MLS for 5th of 15 goalkeepers with more than 20 games played.
2 goals out of 7. That’s 28%. And that’s on the back of an August where we played 8 games and conceded just 4 goals, only one of which – Gardner’s free kick down the pie hole for Columbus – could possibly be seen as a mistake by Keller, but was more obviously down to the wall not doing its job.
The reality is that goalkeeping errors are always, always high profile, and all the more so when they come from a keeper who rarely makes them. My take on it is that you’ve been lucky enough to see Keller playing at the highest level for most of the season and so the clangers, when they have come, have stuck in the mind all the more. He actually made more big mistakes last season, but the difference is that then they were spread out through the course of a season, whereas this year he’s been pretty damn solid for the majority of the season and then had two howlers in quick succession. Personally I’m willing to forgive him 2 goals in what, 40 appearances?
by Targaff on Sep 30, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
yeah, but other than your amazingly compelling argument...
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 30, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
Yes your last paragraph is true and of course I didn’t really think it was 75% and I was using the language to make a valid point: he’s off his game.
"the language" does not make the point valid
And even if he is off his game (by a whopping 0.097 GAA or 3 goals over 34 games) he’s still better at that pace then 2/3rds of the keepers in the MLS. Do you honestly think Ford is better then that? And that’s just with Keller’s unlucky streak.
Garbage?
Definitely not.
One of Keller’s unluckiest stretches in ~100 Sounders games, yes.
Fan of: Cardinals, Blues, Sounders, Yellow Jackets, Wolverines, Rams, and Blazers.
by ColinMacLeod on Sep 30, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
To summarize, I agree that Kasey has dropped off...
from elite to merely spectacular
by central_scrutinizer on Sep 30, 2011 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This lineup scares the sh-- out of me
Scott and Ianni in CB. No Alonso. Ford in goal. Levesque at the wing. Jaqua up top. Yikes.
I don't like it either
Sounds like it would turn into the sloppiest game of kickball ever. Definitely not a good representation of the “beautiful game.” I also feel like we need a good majority of regular starters in there. These guys have gotten use to playing twice a week, and resting everyone seems like it would be a blow to the flow these guys have gotten into.
I have complete faith in our coaching staff...
when it comes to knowing who to rest and when to rest them. They have been using Omega-Wave testing every few days on all the regular players to get a very specific, quantified measure of physical fatigue and recovery time. Every player’s body reacts differently. I am VERY impressed with the team’s approach in that respect (and many others). Feel confident. They are on top of it.
by exSlacker on Sep 30, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
it's not really twice in a week...
it’s three times in 8 days. that’s where it becomes problematic.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 30, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The big/big pairing up tip is what gets me
We’d need to rely heavily on set pieces. That’s really not our game.
Let's be sure
This isn’t a GUESS. It is a demonstration of depth. I think this team could compete.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
I agree with your main point that thismteam is crazy deep
I’m just not sure that this pairing would work well. Playing off the crazy depth theme you could slide Estrada in there for one of the bigs.
The commentator on FSC for the last CCL match...
seemed to think that Ianni was the core of our defense
by central_scrutinizer on Sep 30, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea, what was he going on about?
He wouldn’t shut up about him. To me it showed a lack of preparation and knowledge about the team. Unprofessional.
I may forgive him for not being a Sounders fan, but c’mon, no one who scouts our team thinks of Ianni in that way.
No offence to Ianni, I think he is a damn good option off the bench who definitely held it down last season. I would hate to lose him.
by butterGlory on Sep 30, 2011 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Cobi Jones commentary
generally strikes me as coming from an athlete who had to have the same dozen coaching aphorisms yelled at him over and over again. And the particular Ianni comment really highlights a lack of preparation. My guess is he saw a game or two last season when Hurtado was out and Ianni was getting regular starts.
But its not a reserve game
This is a league game, and the points count. Too many reserves at one time have been disastrous for the Sounders… and while I understand the importance of fresh legs for the US Open Cup Final, I also realize that there are a couple days of rest between days. The New England game at Qwest (2-1) was a close game, and that was with our starters.
They match up well against us…
Soccer is simple, but it is difficult to play simple.
The points count for what?
We’re not winning the Supporters Shield unless the Galaxy basically get no more points this season. Not happening. Second place is important for the CCL if we don’t make the final and we don’t win on Tuesday. I’d greatly prefer either of those happen, and even if they don’t, RSL just lost Beckerman for at least another game and has one of the toughest remaining schedules in the league. In short, even if we lose this game we’re still in very good place for 2nd place. And if we play a bunch of starters and they get fatigued and we lose on Tuesday, I’d be much more pissed.
Nos Audietis
Throw away game
Yup, this is as close to a throw away game as we’ll play all season.
by RalfZakuani on Sep 30, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree...although...
it’s a little hard to swallow when this is the only stadium in which we haven’t taken so much as a point (I think – can anyone confirm?) …
regarding “Too many reserves at one time” having been “disastrous”. I’m not sure I agree. We lost a calculated gamble in the Herediano game by playing it this way..that’s true…but we beat Monterrey IN Monterrey with a lineup that featured nearly as many non-starters and no Keller. I think there is a understandable tendency to have this gut reaction to heavily juggled lineups because of the Man U game…but that was ALL reserves against one of the best teams in the world. I feel a lot less bad about that now that the dust has settled (an after having seen them do a similar thing to Arsenal!).
The key I think is to put a couple of quality players in the right positions
Guys like Levesque, Noonan, Scott, etc are competent pros. They’re role-players. They know their assignment and can go out there and be fine and do one or two things quite well. They’re not going to break down an MLS defense by themselves, though – at least most days (and NE is at least marginally competent if Soares is out there). I think what we saw in Monterrey and other big games with non-starters playing a big role is that you can field a perfectly respectable team of role-players as long as you put one or two guys out there in the right positions that can add that bit of spark and quality – win their 1-on-1 chances, break the defense down, like Fernandez did in Monterrey where he took a half-chance and made it into something, or be a consistent controlling force in the midfield like Ozzie is. But once you take those couple of players out and put out all reserves, like Herediano, that’s when the problems start.
I’m a big college bball fan besides being a soccer fan and putting together a team that can succeed with mostly reserves strikes me as very similar to putting together a good mid-major basketball team. Every good mid-major can have a roster made up of mostly guys who are competent and solid, etc, but unless they have at least one star player to lead them, they won’t beat the big boys. With at least one great player, they can have a good shot to beat ‘name’ teams. So I’d be fine with playing 80% reserves. With a couple of the right guys out there, we can still win.
by Nevtelen on Sep 30, 2011 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If a tree falls in New England...
It’s not like anyone will be at Gillette stadium to see the Sounders lose.
I agree
Sigi and the team should have come back to SEA, and we should have sent the Colorado Rapids Reserve Team to play for us. :)
by Brougham Hooligan on Sep 30, 2011 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
What makes Ford > Meredith?
I would think that Meredith has more real-time experience this year than Ford, but I haven’t seen either one.
Opinions?
the coaches saw more in Ford during the preseason...
and that’s why they kept him. It seemed as though it was quite a difficult decision and that they were very impressed by both of them. We kept Ford. He’s been training for almost a full season with Dutra and Keller. It’s time for him to get a shot and prove that the decision to keep him and not Meredith was a good one. As for Meredith…I found him to be very impressive in the Kitsap Open Cup game and I’m glad they signed him for the remainder.
As far as problems go
This is a nice one to have.
The thing that is hard for us to see
or quantify is the keepers role in directing the defense. Ford has had a season of working with his defenders in training and reserve games. Meredith has trained some with the team but nearly to the extent of Ford.
Points...
I wouldn’t ever make a decision that condones putting a non competitive squad on the field, or give up in a race for first, or securing second.
I’d say keep players fresh by having them play 45 or 60 minutes, and substitute 2 or 3 starters at a time. I dont think I’d subsitute 7 of your starting 11 players, including your strongest offensive and strongest defensive players.
Notice a prospective lineup like this has no Rosales, Montero, Fernandez, Friberg, Alonso, Parke or Fucito ? ? ? Thats alot of missing leadership and talent. You can put a bunch of guys with heart out there on the field, but they need to be surrounded by on field leadership.
Soccer is simple, but it is difficult to play simple.
This makes no sense in the grand scheme of things. The US Open Cup is more important, the game is 4 days later. Why risk playing players in a game that has no meaning external to itself? It’s not like Sigi is going to forfeit or tell everyone to sit around in a circle and sing. This is a great opportunity to get players that haven’t seen much of the field in MLS playing time and keep everyone healthy going into an important game. There is no reason to start players like Alonso, who has played a ton of minutes, for this game. Focusing on meaningless points is a way to lose more important games.
Boo! Tomorrow AM. I want all things now!
You can't sub them all out though
And I don’t want Montero, Fernandez, Alonso, Parke, Keller, etc. playing 90 minutes tomorrow. If Sigi needs to, he can sub them in for 30 minutes much easier than subbing them all out at 45.
I'm not saying...
… don’t let the starters rest. My argument is having 7 influential players out at the same time, creating gaps in leadership and skill.
Soccer is simple, but it is difficult to play simple.
True enough
But it’s better that those influential players are available and uninjured for the game with the trophy on the line.
I think the counter-argument, and the one I have in mind is: “Who cares if we lose?” That’s the worst case scenario of starting all reserves right? Who honestly cares? I’d rather we won, but I don’t really care that much if we lose and I would certainly care if any of the people we’ll need on Tuesday night got injured or were sluggish for that game. Given that the benefits are minuscule and the potential drawbacks much larger, it seems foolish to start a bunch of our regular starters. That doesn’t mean Sigi will do that, but it’s what I’d advocate.
Boo! Tomorrow AM. I want all things now!
It's not like the team Sigi is starting is that green...
Ianni, Riley, Gonzalez in the back. That’s 3 of 4 with a large amount of MLS experience.
Carrasco, Evans, Neagle, and Levesque in the midfield. Evans is one of the teams best 11 when healthy and Carrasco and Neagle are both solid rotation members. Levesque isn’t “good” per se, but he’s a hard worker on the wing who will put pressure on the other team. If he gets subbed out for Fernandez after making the defense work for 60 minutes, it will be a good use of his skill set.
Jaqua / Ochoa up top is the one that gives me the most concern. Part of me would like to see Ochoa / Fucito up top with Jaqua subbing in when Ochoa starts to struggle fitness wise.
The positive side of Jaqua / Ochoa
Is that it likely means Fucito for Ochoa in the second half. And Fucito should have no problems against tired legs.
please use the reply button
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Sep 30, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Aren't we 15-6-9, BTW?
The match card claims otherwise.
Yep, you are right
I missed one of the three fields I needed to update. Of course, it was one that is displayed on the main image.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart
Fucito didn't play 90 at Comunicaciones...
…so I’d like to see him in with Ochoa to start the game if he’s deemed healthy enough to do so. Fernandez, Montero and Alonso all playing 90 or nearly the last two games puts the team up against a wall, but having Evans and Fucito in to start could make a big difference in comparison to the Herediano loss lineup.
I may be incorrect
but I believe Keller is the current MLS leader in consecutive starts. Anyone know for sure?
by MicahRowe18 on Oct 1, 2011 6:21 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yes, he's been holding that record since May.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sounders/2014932890_sounders02.html
I think it is unlikely he’ll sit this one out for that reason.
Sounders 'til I die
by SounderJunkie on Oct 1, 2011 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
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