Do Sounders Need More Creativity From Central Midfield?
One of the most hotly debated roster topics this off season has been whether the Seattle Sounders need to upgrade or add tactical depth to the roster at the more attack-oriented central midfield position. The discussion has often gotten bogged down in traditional soccer semantics. Many of us have expressed our desire for a more creative player by suggesting that perhaps the team needs to find a CAM. Unfortunately, a CAM or true No. 10, is a specific type of player in soccer nomenclature, that does not work simply with the Sounders' current tactical formation. Montero plays a type of Withdrawn Forward called a Trequartista. A Trequartista and a CAM utilize similar tactical space on the pitch and would get in each other's way. In blunt terms, the team does not need a CAM. But there is more to this discussion than a simple misunderstanding of traditional tactical positions. I want to take a deeper look at the issues underlying this desire and how the Sounders may address the issue coming out of training camp.
The Root of the Problem
The Sounders have been eliminated from the MLS Cup Playoffs for three years in a row. They have not won a Supporters' Shield. For a three-year-old franchise, neither of these things is a tragedy. But winning one of these accolades is a good goal for the team. When you look at why the Sounders have not been successful, the central midfield stands out as a potential weakness.
During the Sounders' first two seasons, the team had limited offensive weapons and the good MLS teams were able to shut down the Sounders by focusing on key players. In their third season, the Sounders were not as easy to shut down, but a combination of injuries and the particular weaknesses of the 2011 team resulted in another playoff loss.
The 2011 Sounders broke down in a very specific way. The team was able to compensate for the loss of Zakuani and O'Brian White tactically but not without cost. Zakuani and OBW constituted much of the 2011 Sounders' speed. Without them in the lineup, opposing teams were able to cheat their defensive players farther up the pitch. The Sounders were able to overcome this shift through tactical creativity, particularly in the wide areas of the field. But when Mauro went down, the Sounders floundered.
Teams were able to shut down the team by funneling the play into the central midfield and denying the Sounders the wings. The central midfield was good at holding and defensive play, but couldn't compensate creatively. They were also outmanned because of the team's lack of a speed threat. This resulted in the run of play being compressed toward the Sounders' end of the field. When the team turned the ball over in the central midfield, this compounded their vulnerability to the counter attack. On the surface, this appears to be a failure of the tactical abilities of the players used in the CM, particularly the more advanced attacking CM. But is this really the case?
The Sounders Attacking CM
The Sounders employ a tactical formation that utilizes a Box-to-Box midfielder and a Defensive midfielder in the central roles. The 2011 Sounders predominately used two players to fill the B2B position; Erik Friberg and Brad Evans. Friberg is no longer a Sounder and he was not replaced during the offseason. Which leaves the 2012 Sounders with one returning starter at the B2BMF position; Evans.
Evans has many strengths. He is good in the air. He has good tactical awareness. He plays defense. He makes good late runs into the box and he offers the team leadership. But like any player he also has weaknesses. He has been vulnerable to injury. His finishing can be an adventure and I have never heard him described as a creative passing force. This is the crux of the argument. For all of Evans' strengths, he is not a creative passing force at the central midfield. Basically, Evans gives the team a solid holding version of a B2B MF. Nothing wrong with this by itself. But having another tactical option would be nice.
But this isn't the only issue. Montero occupies the space of Trequartista, but he often uses this space to create opportunities for himself rather than to create passes for his teammates. Evans and Montero both have skills and are MLS starting caliber players. The problem is that when they are both on the pitch, Seattle does not have a play-making passer in the central midfield. The 2011 Sounders overcame this problem by using Rosales to fill the creative passing niche. When he went down, the Sounders didn't have a replacement.
One solution to addressing this tactical situation is to secure the services of a B2BMF who offers a set of skills that includes more passing service than Evans. This solution is obvious but not easy or even necessary. As many people including Dave and Jeremiah have pointed out, these players are not particularly common and they are not cheap. The Sounders going out and finding a starting caliber player with this skill set at this point of the offseason is unlikely. MLS roster rules require compromises and this is an area the Sounders appear to be using to strike a functional compromise.
The 2012 Sounders roster does offer a couple of possibilities. Sigi has indicated that the team may look at Alvaro Fernandez in this role as a tactical option. The team also has a couple of prospects who might serve here. Returning Sounder Mike Seamon may be able to adjust his game to meet this need. Or Supplemental Draft trade pick Andy Rose may step into the role. Rosales could also move here if the team finds good options at the RW.
The Big Picture and Other Options
But finding a creative force in the central midfield is not the only tactical option. The Sounders do not need to generate their offense from the central midfield. They just need to be able to not bog down in the central midfield. There are many tactical ways to approach the problem.
Speed
The loss of Zakuani and OBW, cost the Sounders scoring options, but it also cost them much of their speed. Many of the young prospects the Sounders have invited to camp offer speed as part of their arsenal. The more speed that the Sounders can incorporate into their attack, the more they will be able to force opposing teams to use formations that cover the entire pitch. If the opposing CBs and FBs are forced to respect the threat of speed, they can not move up the pitch in support of their midfield. This opens the midfield passing lanes and allows the creative players on the Sounders side the room to operate. The Sounders' FO appears to be looking seriously at speed as an option.
Transition from the Back
A second tool to address this problem is to change how the team moves the ball out of the defensive third in transition. If the team can improve the speed and quality of the transition from the defensive third into the attacking third, this will help unclog the midfield. This happens in two very specific ways. First, speed on the transition will enable the Sounders to catch the opposing teams out of shape. This in turn will force the opposing teams to guard against the counter attack. The end effect will be to allow the Sounders more room to break down the midfield and move the center of action toward the opponent's goal.
The second way that the Sounders can tailor their movement out of the back is to play to their strengths. This roster is built for technical play, not aerial play. If the Sounders can advance the ball out of the back on the ground, rather than through the air, they play to their strengths and minimize the strength of teams with more aerial tools.
Now look at the how the Sounders have overhauled the backline this offseason. Leo Gonzalez plays the ball on the ground more than Tyson Wahl did. Michael Gspurning is noted for his ability to play the ball on the ground and the speed of his transition. Adam Johannson is known for his ability to create service and move the ball up the pitch on the ground. Andrew Duran is noted for his ability to work with the ball at his feet. These moves are very deliberate and seem to indicate that the Sounders see this as an area they want to change. Whether the pieces work the way they hope remains to be seen but the activity is encouraging.
Tactical Flexibility
Another tool the Sounders can use to break down the defensive shape of opposing teams is tactical flexibility. 2011 showed just how valuable tactical flexibility is within the context of the MLS. Individual players within the MLS don't offer the universality of players in the top leagues. Every MLS player has a compromised skill set in the context of the global market. This combined with the salary cap, means that each opponent has tactical weaknesses that the Sounders can exploit. The more tactical options the Sounders have available on their roster, the more likely that the Sounders can shift their personnel to capitalize.
Physical Play
The 2011 Sounders got muscled off the ball. The 2012 training cap roster offers a number of larger bodies that play the game with physical finesse. Yes, Montero, Mike Fucito, Rosales and Osvaldo Alonso play big for their size, but a player like Babayele Sodade or Christian Sivebaek is big. Just another piece of the puzzle.
Will it all work?
Camp is about testing all of the pieces together and seeing what works and what merely looked like a good idea on paper. The jury is out on how the 2012 Sounders will mesh. But even without a more creative option at central midfield, I am encouraged by how the Sounders appear to be addressing the central issue of getting bogged down. They are taking a multifaceted approach that doesn't rely upon a single piece but instead approaches the problem holistically. It isn't the obvious approach, but it could end up being effective.
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It's often called a 4-4-2 on the TV
but it playes a lot like a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-1-3-1-1.
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A variation of a 4-4-2 often called Sigi's arrow on this site
The key hallmarks are the two wide midfielders who act as additional forwards, Montero occupying the space of a trequarista and the fullbacks covering lots of space up and down the wings. So functionally, it often looks like a 4-1-1-3-1.
If you search for Sigi’s arrow,or formations on this site you should find a couple of really good articles on it.
Let's give credit where it's due to RSL
That was a very tough draw for both sides. I my estimation only RSL and the Galaxy had the tools last year to both shut down the Sounders wing play and control the central midfield.
I would have loved to see Seattle with Mauro play that series
The loss in Salt Lake wasn’t just a failure of the CM. The team played poorly. But I would have really enjoyed seeing the Sounders play RSL with Mauro for that series.
My main focus with this article though was the discussion of whether the Sounders need to reinforce this area of their roster. Being stronger here would make the team stronger. But it isn’t the only option. And roster construction isn’t a substitute for playing the games. Any MLS team can beat any other MLS team on any given day. Some MLS teams will also stack up well against others. LA has had Seattle’s number in league play for the past couple of years. And I know that KC wants nothing to do with Seattle during stoppage time.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 24, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, I totally get where your coming from
I just wanted to put this hole incur roster in perspective. It’s a weakness, but one only a couple teams in MLS can caitalize on.
I think we should sign Luka Modric
and see how it goes. If we win more, obviously we needed a CAM
Nos Audietis
Can I have Messi as a Trequartista instead?
The key here for me is the overall balance of the roster decisions. Yes, Modric or Messi, Forlan or Mata would look stunning in Super Cyan. But finding an Attacking MF player with perfect skills isn’t the way that the current MLS roster game works.
For the kind of player the Sounders can afford, what gives them the most bang for their buck?
by Abbott Smith on Jan 24, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
To be fair, a stump would look stunning in Super Cyan.
The team’s strategy with the third kits is clearly to inflict eye strain on the opposing teams.
Got your Jonathan Wilson hat on tonight I see
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I actually have a dream CM
Ballack. He’d be a DP, but not a huge one. He’s now more a CM than CDM. He profiles similar to Evans, just better in every aspect.
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by Dave Clark on Jan 24, 2012 5:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Isnt Herr Ballack heading to Montreal?
by DaveValleDrinkNight on Jan 24, 2012 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Some words out of Canada indicate that the Impact are not a lock
that instead he’s angling for MLS
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He doesn't necessarily have a preferred team
just wants to play in the League
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I support your dream
If only we had the cap space….
by Dizzo on Jan 24, 2012 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What does he want from the move?
If he is looking for a final payday, a team like Montreal can offer more than Seattle in salary. But if he wants a swan song, Seattle could be a perfect fit. The Sounders are playing in the knockout stages of the CONCACAF. They have serious shot at a lot of hardware. As good as I think the Impact may be as an expansion team, they may not have their real success until after Ballack’s value fades. The Sounders could offer him a chance at gilding his legacy in a market that has a serious fan base. What he loses in salary, he may be able to more than reap on the back end through endorsements. And he won’t have the pressure to be the face of the team.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 24, 2012 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
No MLS team can really offer more money for a DP
Well, maybe LA and NY, but the rest operate in similar budget realms.
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I doubt Seattle has the cap room to add a 300k salary
Even if the team buys down Mauro’s contract, how far down can they get it? Can they really fit another 200k salary slot into their payroll along with 3 senior DP hits? Only the FO knows for certain. But I sincerely doubt they have the AM and cap room to sign Ballack as a DP while keeping FM, Flaco and Rosales.
My point is that Seattle might be able to swing a deal for Ballack at less than DP terms if they market it well. Granted it is an extreme long shot, but realistically it is the only way I can see it happening without jettisoning one of their current DP level contracts. Won’t hurt to ask and just maybe Ballack is after something other than a big payday.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 25, 2012 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
I could see the team selling Flaco to make it work
It would be sad to see him go, but we have a good bit of cover at LM. Ballack would fit into CM where we are weaker.
Would love to have him angle on over here.
He’s already played at the Clink, we just need to get him in the green.
by DaveValleDrinkNight on Jan 24, 2012 5:10 PM PST up reply actions
That would assure us of a #2 finish
Ballack has quite a record of finishing runner-up
I would have to change my worldview
To not hate Michael Ballack with the heat of a thousand suns.
I’d do it if he came here, but it would be difficult.
Important question
How good is Ballack at taking PKs?
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by 253Sounder on Jan 24, 2012 5:21 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
This still hasn't been announced
It would require some roster math to happen
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I don't know about Ballack these days...
…but I have often thought that one of the places the team could upgrade most is having a better Evans. That’s not to rag on Evans, he’s a fine player, it’s just that it’s a key position and having a better version of Evans could be a big boost. I also wouldn’t mind someone with Davis-level free kicks.
Rosales was solid
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I haven't been too impressed with his free kicks
At least compared to his crossing in the run of play. I did miss a few Mauro games while on vacation in the summer so I’ll have to look for that.
Marc Burch ...
will be a new option for free kicks when he’s on the field. Wahl was better than Leo in this respect…but I sense that Burch is better than Wahl.
I've day-dreamed of Yaya Toure
playing the B2B CM role in rave green. But I really like the idea of Ballack. He’s probably a more dynamic passer than Toure. And most importantly, he may actually be within the realm of possibility.
by cghanson on Jan 24, 2012 9:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
We led the league in goals
By a good margin. What we need isn’t an AM, it’s better defense. Save two goals and we’d have the Supporter’s Shield.
I tend to look at it as a question of all of the ways that a roster can be improved
I agree that a key component of the Sounders improving on last year’s performance is for the team to improve its defense. This has been the key focus of the major offseason moves in the Sounders FO. In addition to the defensive changes I mentioned in the article, there is also the issue of improving defensive possession play. Ianni spoke with the media about this very issue.
But another area the Sounders can improve is to add tactical flexibility. More tools that mesh together in different ways, makes it harder to defend against the team and potentially can improve the team’s possession overall. A good offense can often equate to better defensive stats.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 24, 2012 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
Well, I think Johansson is a pretty huge upgrade to the defense.
But anything that improves the team is an, um, improvement. A goal scored is just as good as a goal prevented, etc.
by Aaron Campeau on Jan 24, 2012 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Generally agree...
…but in a league where ties are allowed, goal scoring may actually be worth slightly more than goal prevention. Although, as you mention, anything that improves a team is an improvement. Best to be good at scoring and preventing goals.
actually in a league where ties allowed
preventing a goal is worth more than scoring one. Because if the other team doesn’t score you are assured of a point.
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That fact makes me jones for an accurate WAR value method for Soccer.
Makes me think players like Jeff Parke or Omar Gonzalez are ridiculously underrated compared to a CAM or FW.
by DaveValleDrinkNight on Jan 24, 2012 6:43 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think so
In baseball, if you allow no runs, you are assured of victory. In soccer, if you allow no goals, you are only assured of 1/3rd victory.
No matter how many runs you score
if your defense sucks I can still win.
If your defense is infinately awesome, I can not win, merely draw.
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But over the course of the regular season, you care more about earning your own points than denying your opponent points
The incentives in soccer have been set up in such a way that a win is rewarded much more than a draw. And the only way to win is to score. If you get shut out a bunch of games, your potential for points is much lower. Like I said in the first place, I generally agree with Aaron that a goal scored is as good as a goal prevented, but at the margins (which realistically includes very few teams), if you have two teams with, say, a +5 GD on the season, I’d rather have a high-scoring environment than a low-scoring environment, because the high-scoring team is going to win (and lose) a lot of games—which should keep them close to 1.5 PPG—while the low-scoring team is going to draw more 0-0 and 1-1 games, which will drag down their PPG towards 1.
In baseball, neither run scoring nor run prevention is favored because games cannot end in draws and teams don’t each get a third of a win for being tied 0-0 after 9.
My point is that offensive players tend to be over valued and over paid.
There are a lot of bad/mediocre offensive players making way more money than some elite defenders. A great defender can have just as big an impact on a game as a CAM or FW and they usually cost a lot less.
by DaveValleDrinkNight on Jan 25, 2012 1:22 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe
It’s a little hard for me to believe that teams the world over are all overvaluing offensive players, but it’s possible. I get the impression that, if anything, the media overvalues offensive players and overlooks defensive players, but that good teams understand the value of each.
Soccermetrics posits that offensive players are overvalued
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Does the difference between the draw and win result matter?
I.e. A high-variance offensive strategy, playing against a roughly even team, that gets you one win and one loss in a series against an opponent gets you 3 points, while a low-variance defense strategy that nets you 2 draws gets you 2 points.
Yes
The 1-pt for a tie vs 3 for a win suggests to me that if you’re a better team you want high scoring games in order for your ability difference to show. You’d much rather win 5-4 than draw 1-1 over and over. Which is why bad teams generally focus on goal prevention first and try to steal draws.
Nos Audietis
Evans
Don’t forget another area he strengthens us: penalties. He’s made every single one as far as I can remember…
This is a better discussion of the title question
… than what I would have written, which would just be “noooooooooooooooo” for six pages.
by Kenneth Jung on Jan 24, 2012 6:27 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Good Article
To the people talking about Ballack, this would be awesome if we could manage to pull it off and I think it’s a decent possibility that we could.
My biggest thing about needing to sign a CM is the fact that we’re in three competitions during the year. League play, the USOC, and the CCL. I felt like having three starter caliber CM’s in Alonso, Friberg, and Evans last year gave us an edge in those competitions over what we had the year before. With only two starting quality CM’s we’re gona have a weaker line up in the CM just because Alonso and Evans can’t play both the weekend game and the CCL midweek game every week. Adding another box to box midfielder to replace Friberg would solve that problem.
My concern with Ballack..
would be a history of injuries. He’s a GREAT player and would probably slot in pretty well to the Sigi Arrow. But if you’re going to shell out that kind of money, you need someone who….well…doesn’t have Evans-like injury-prone-ness on his resume. I realize that they shelled out big bucks for Freddie coming off of an injury…but he really didn’t have a history of injury…just one very specific and misdiagnosed one. That made him a good gamble in that respect.
Does 2 oft-injured CMs = 1 healthy starting CM?
If so then Ballack might be perfect!
by Dizzo on Jan 25, 2012 12:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
2 words
Alvaro
Fernandez
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Jan 24, 2012 7:27 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
great article.
I appreciate the holistic view and approach. You raise several great points and honestly several I had not thought of. I know I have exchanged posts with you and Dave on this subject. But as Sigi and many others have said the midfield is the engine of the team and if you upgrade the engine the whole vehicle goes faster. Of course there are other things that can be and need to be upgraded as well. But if you supercharge a 2 liter it is not the same as having a 4 liter… Of course this is when you have to weigh and measure in MLS and figure out if you can upgrade all other components to reach or almost reach the same level for a fraction of the cost. That being said with Ballack I think we could push for MLS Cup/ Supporter Shield/ Open Cup/ Concacaf even though it does no look plausible.
by Calin David on Jan 24, 2012 9:45 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Flaco and possibly Rosales
As malcontentjake pointed out, the plan may very well be to move Flaco to the CMF. With Zak returning through the season, the ultimate goal may be to use Zak, Flaco & Rosales across the more advanced MF. Doesn’t cost the team anything more than they had already spent and potentially solves the problem. But until the Sounders try it, no one knows how well it will work. My point is that they are entering camp with a contingency plan that could make the option unnecessary. If it works, they’re just that much stronger.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 24, 2012 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
agreed
I actually think flaco would be well suited as a cm he tracks back well and plays one-two in tight quarters which I think would translate well and he also seems to have a good partnership with Montero and the Honey Badger. He also seemed to cut inside anyway when he got within 30 yards of the end line and if he moves inside it we wouldn’t be moving our best or second best crosser into the middle. The only potential issue is so far he has been more of a finisher than assist man which makes me wonder if has the vision necessary.
by Calin David on Jan 24, 2012 11:12 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Youth
I think we all tend to forget just how young the core Sounders are. I expect that one area Montero, Ozzie and Flaco will be looking to improve this year is their ability to set up team mates to score. If the Sounders can consistently finish their opportunities, they will all start to see options for their team mates.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 24, 2012 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Valid
On all three counts. I think it is also worth noting that Ozzie had 3 goals and 3 assists in MLS and three goals in other competitions obviously he is a wrecking ball of a defensive mid but if he continues to add goals and passing prowess he could possibly be the more creative piece as cm.
by Calin David on Jan 25, 2012 12:06 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I see Flaco as a Winger
…because Flaco’s greatest strength is running at players and into space. It is NOT playing in tight areas and passing/distribution. Based on this, I’m not sure why people think he’ll make a solid CM. If he is expected to play as an out and out attacking CM a la Ljungberg was in the central position, then he may be fine; but I don’t think that is (1) what we need, or (2) what people are thinking of when we talk about a “playmaking CAM”. I was under the impression we all envision someone who holds possession, distributes, has creative passing ability to break down defenses, etc. If so, that doesn’t sound like Flaco to me. It sounds much more like Rosales or a player not yet on our roster.
wow
II don’t think I could possible disagree with this assessment more. From day 1 I saw Flaco as fulfilling more of a “passer/playmaker” role and seemingly more suited to a more central, B2B style of play. The fact that he did so from the left side – while Roslaes fulfilled more of a “traditional #10” role from the right, shouldn’t distract from basic roles or styles. As a matter of fact, through the first half of last season, I was often incredibly frustrated at Flaco’s unwillingess/inability to run at players, particularly in contrast to Zakuani.
I think that if you look at some of the heat maps and passing charts from last year, you will see Flaco’s pattern look very much like a left-sided passer/distributor than a runner/creator/playmaker type. Additionally, he has the ability to “pop up” in threatening positions in the attacking third and calmly finish chances, but this is a common trait amongst good B2B passer/distributors.
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Jan 25, 2012 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Point, Counter-Point
You’re right in that Flaco doesn’t run at players the same way Zakuani did/does, he doesn’t have the same foot skills, deception, or speed. But he does take guys on and slash into spaces, tucking inside from the wing and “popping up” in dangerous positions inside—often off the weak side, where he scored a number of goals last year.
What I have NOT seen in Flaco is tidy possession under pressure, OR dynamic passing. He is much more a dump & run passer, who lays the ball off and runs into space hoping for the return pass. How many assists did the guy have last year? Answer: 5 in 39 appearances. Not horrible, but certainly nowhere near the number I’d expect from a “passer/distributor”, you describe him as. What makes you think he’d do much better from CM? Simply that he’d be closer to the goal?
Based on what I’ve seen of him, he is a slashing winger who is more goal scoring oriented than passing. The numbers don’t lie, and neither do the passing charts you reference. At least, not the one’s I’ve seen.
If they give him a go in CM, I truly 100% hope to see the experiment work. But if I were coach, and I’m not, I’d give Rosales a look as well due to his top quality possession and passing skills. See how they both turn out.
I'd agree, if...
we had someone outside who could cross. Mauro could rock as a CM, but Fernandez and Zakuani (when healthy) outside, would leave us very short on crossing ability. This could work, if our fullbacks pick up the crossing slack, but Mauro has a talent (crosses) that would be wasted at cm.
by Iam333 on Jan 25, 2012 11:34 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
This is exactly how I would describe Flaco
I’ve had to work to appreciate what he brings. My first instinct is to value the ability to handle tight playing arrangements and transform moments of pressure into moments of advantage. I have come to appreciate his ability to serve as a peripheral piece for a central creative force, but I have serious doubts about him as that originating force.
ummmm....
the way in which you are describing Flaco is excatly the role/style I envision in a more centrally oriented passer/distrubutor…
“dumping the ball off and moving into space” strikes me as THE essential element of possession-oriented soccer-football…
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Jan 25, 2012 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you want someone who makes a difference, or just keeps possession?
“Dump and move” is status quo in our CM; it’s not dynamic or creative. What I want is a player who makes that killer pass, as does Rosales very, very often. Evans can play short balls all day, as we’ve seen with his propensity to pass laterally. That does not make a great playmaking CM.
The reason Flaco’s “dump and move” passing game works so well on the wing is that he has the space in the corners to run into. Put him into central positions where he’s getting crowded out, and he’ll need to show a different skillset to find the ball in tight spaces and make an impact with his passing to unseat the defense.
The Problem with Sigi's Arrow
Sigi’s arrow is not balanced, especially with Evans in the B2B role. There often is a huge gap between the four defenders & Alonso and the five attackers. Alonso as good as he is can’t cover side to side to protect the back four and they get exposed to counterattacks (especially since last year’s group was not good defending in space) Friberg was the only one with the tactical awareness to hang back and help out when he was in the center or right mid positions..
The arrow is a good way to play to score goals in the regular season, but not a good way to grind out 1-0 wins in playoff games. There needs to be a plan B for holding leads or road games vs. the better teams.
by Socrates on Jan 24, 2012 9:56 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
The B2B CM is not an attacking position
he should be roughly equidistant from the CDM and the WF
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In "Sigi's arrow"
The CM is like the string that ties the Arrowhead to the shaft. If that string is weak the tip breaks off. (Heh, I’m so clever, although it has nothing to do really with this post)
by Adam Waltering on Jan 25, 2012 7:49 AM PST up reply actions
I always felt like Friberg was a defensive liabillty
he put himself in “reckless” positions, he was a passer/creator, whereas Evans was a holder/passer.
Also, the “gap” you describe is just as easily filled by wide, attacking mids drifting more central
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Jan 25, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i did too
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 25, 2012 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
1 on 1 Evans is a better defender
But Evans tends to get caught up field, Friberg was more aware and drifted back to help Alonso out (as good as he physically could which I agree is below average.) Evans is a better choice if he plays disciplined and doesn’t lose contact with the defenders.
There is still a problem with the arrow since it leaves too much space out wide to start counterattacks against it, which forces Alonso to go wide to help out and then the centerbacks have to decide whether to back off or step forward to pick up people in midfield.
Fucito
I like him as a forward but I seem to remember when we signed him that he played as an attacking center mid and that he is listed as a mid on sounderfc.com. I am not sure if I have seen the vision or passing precision that would be an upgrade over Evans but I have been curious if any of you at SaH know if Sigi has tried him there or if you have seen him in this role at practice or at Harvard or had any other thoughts.
by Calin David on Jan 24, 2012 10:06 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
He was at a Left Mid for one year of collge
and in 2009 was used in some practices as a backup to Zakuani. His passing isn’t quite good enough to play that role for extended periods of time.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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Fucito, Alvarez, Ballack
Fucito has no touch, he would be a turnover machine in midfield.
Alvarez would be great in a 3 man midfield (4-3-3), but his defense would be a liability in a 4-4-2 with only 2 central midfielders.
Ballack is old and done.
Ballack may be done...
I have not seen him play in the last year or so but I doubt his vision, football brain or passing ability are done or gone. Maybe nice to have someone that Seamon, Rose, Evans or whoever else chould sit under and soak in that knowledge but it may also be a waste of money.
by Calin David on Jan 24, 2012 11:23 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Ballack?! lulz
if I’ve said it once, i’ve said it a million times; the MLS infatuation with aging former European stars needs to end.
If anyone thinks a panacea can be found in a 35-year old looking for one more decent contract somewhere he can get away with only going 7/10’s to string out a couple more years out of his career, I have real estate to show you ;-)
...and you will hear us scream
by malcontentjake on Jan 25, 2012 10:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hear, hear
The discussion usually revolves around famous players who are old and done (Ballack), or famous players who are out of our price range by an order of magnitude (Modric). To get Modric to play in Seattle would require, on top of at least a $40 million transfer fee, an annual salary of closer to $10 million than to $5 million. That’s not going to happen.
What we need is pretty much what we’ve been getting: young players who show strength in lesser leagues, or in the American system. We are not in the market for players who get front-page articles on Soccernet written about them.
That said, I wonder if we could swing for a different Spur, who is looking for a new home, and might be almost affordable: Gio Dos Santos.
As the person who brought up Modric
let me be clear that it was for lulz, not for seriouses
Nos Audietis
Spurs paid 6 million pounds...
and they want around that for a transfer, let alone his wages.
by Iam333 on Jan 25, 2012 3:31 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
More...
Spurs turned down 40 million pounds. His wages are more than 100k pounds a week, and Spurs are cheap by EPL standards.
by Iam333 on Jan 25, 2012 3:33 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Not for Gio
That’s Modric. Gio is more like GBP 35k a week, i.e, $2.5 million or something like that a year. Transfer rumors are currently in the GBP 4 mil range. Like I said, “almost affordable”.
great analysis
if I had the patience and time I would have written exactly what was writtten. well dont abbott smith.
autocorrect is killing you lately
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 25, 2012 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes, the Sounders DO need more creativity from the CM!
You can call the CM position opposite of Ozzie whatever you like (I personally find the semantic disagreements a bit ridiculous), but there is no doubt that it has been the most glaring weakness on the team since inception. While this CM position does have a more defensive responsibility than the wings in Sigi’s formation, it also is a more attacking position than the CDM that Ozzie plays and ideally would be filled by a player with vision and passing ability (not Brad Evans’ strengths by any stretch). The best current option on the roster to fill this role would be Mauro (he has the vision and distribution ability) but you would lose his crossing from the right side. He also would have to defend more than he does now, but he seems up to the task. Flaco has not shown that he is well suited to handle the “quaterback” position on the team and I think he can be more effective outside. It would be great to pickup a more offensively competent CM that could maintain posession and coordinate the attack, but since that’s not likely to happen this year, Mauro is the best option on the current roster to upgrade that position (even if he’s not crazy about moving inside).
Mauro in an Evans role would be a horrid defensive option
By horrid I mean giving up several goals a month bad. I’d love Mauro as a CAM, but not as a CM. He’s a great example of why it isn’t a semantic discussion. His defense isn’t MLS average, which is part of the reason why he’s a good winger in this system.
If Seattle ran a diamond or other CAM based system I’d love Rosales in that role. But he and Montero in the same space is a mistake.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
Wants versus Needs
I would argue that this is a case of wanting more creativity from the CM rather than a need. Would we all like to see a creative B2B option that the team could use tactically in addition to having Brad Evans? Yes.
But the MLS is a league of compromises and the team has decided this year that the other options were more critical. My goal was to examine if this compromise enables the team to potentially overcome their tendency to bog down in the CMF. I honestly believe that barring more catastrophic injuries, the team will be able to move the ball upfield better than they ever have. The combination of moves instead of upgrading the advanced CM actually is probably even a more stable solution because it is not dependent on one new player. The cost of a single, high quality playmaking CM would have made it difficult for the team to make any additional moves. Instead they tweaked a number of positions. The proof will be in the season and you are certainly welcome to remind me at the end of the season if the midfield becomes a quagmire where the Sounders’ offense goes to die.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 25, 2012 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
While the formation is not a true diamond, it is also not generally designed to have two CDM’s side by side (unless Carasco is in there with Ozzie), and therefore the CM should play ahead of the CDM. As for the assumption that Montero and Rosales can’t exist together in the middle of the field, I don’t necessarily agree. It’s a big pitch and there’s plenty of space for two “creative” players between Ozzie and the striker. But more likely Montero wouldn’t have to withdraw as much as he did last year which was done, I think, more out of necessity because there was no one else in that space who could create. I also think you underrate Mauro’s defensive abilities because Sigi doesn’t ask as much of his wingers defensively (see Zakuani). I thought he hustled back behind the ball as well as any of the outside mid’s last year and would be better defensively then Frieberg was, mainly because he lacked pace. No doubt, Evans gives you much more defensively, but he’s such a huge liability when it comes to ball handling and passing that they’re almost always better off with him on the bench (unless they are protecting a large lead). Even if Mauro is an average defender, I’m not as concerned with Ozzie behind him. I think it’s worth a try, even if they have to slightly adjust the formation to accomodate Mauro in the middle.
Agreed!
Worth a try, and the pieces add up better than trying it with Flaco IMO.
When Seattle played with a CAM
Montero still withdrew. He’s an extraordinary player with the ball at his feet and space to work. Trying to find ways to minimize that seems rather odd.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
by Dave Clark on Jan 27, 2012 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

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