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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Right Back Depth Filled By Utility Men

Zach Scott is one of many players who will see time at right back during preseason training.

One of the issues with depth charts and roster math is how to place players who can fill many roles. With Adam Johansson in Qatar for the opening of training camp, Seattle Sounders coach Sigi Schmid gets to test a bunch of different options at the right back role. One thing quickly clear when asked was who the leader in that role is:

Obviously Zach Scott is somebody who can play there. So we know he can always push out there and play, so it gives us a chance to look at some other guys at center back—[Andrew] Duran and [Tim] Pontius. We’ll probably look at Duran at outside, as well, because he’s shown that he can play right back. We’re looking at Roger Levesque back there still because he’s done an adequate job and he’s always been the guy that’s sort of been that answer to any question. Do we need a forward? Do we need a midfielder? What do we need? Roger’s always willing to jump and do the job …and he looks very comfortable at right back right now, more comfortable than he was last year when he first started doing it.

There's other depth that's being tested there as well. Both David Estrada and Amadou Sanyang filled in at times. Each provide a different style of utility player. In Estrada you get a kind of young Levesque--high energy, converted attacking player, on ball skills. In Sanyang's brief moments of play he's been a defensive stopper. His experiences as a defensive mid and center back make him more like a Scott.

Estrada at practice today gave a very Levesque answer when asked about his role flexibility, which last year included time as a CAM with the Reserves:

I try to get as much as I can from each position. If I'm going to play that's what I'm going to do; to be able to be consistent and add to the team.

Star-divide

Sanyang is in his first training camp with the Sounders--a camp where he's able to train fully in preseason, unlike last year. He too notes that his ability to play multiple roles will help him get playing time.

I feel like it's one of those things to get more opportunity. If you don't play you where you already have played ... you need to step up and do it. You have more opportunities to be on the field.

Both can see other players who aren't locks at a position getting time. Scott can slot into the right, the left and the middle. With so many competitions, and a desire to have partnerships at centerback, his flexibility could force some of the "utility guys" fill in at right back in non-league games or this year in League games in weeks with CONCACAF Champions League knockout rounds.

Being ready, available and adaptable is a hallmark of Levesque's play even back to the USL days. His work ethic was praised today by Sigi. There's little wonder that when asked about looking up to Roger this was David Estrada's response:

That's one of the guys that I look up to, being at his age and being as fit as he is, it's amazing to me. He's able to play at right mid, rightback and up top and score goals too. That's one of the guys that I look up to. You see the way he prepares.

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I like Estrada's attitude

He’s clearly willing to do whatever is needed to keep the team successful. He’ll need it to keep a spot.

by Dizzo on Jan 25, 2012 6:34 PM PST reply actions  

Wait a minute...

Did you actually manage to write a new post while you were watching a game in a language that you don’t understand?

Sounders 'til I die

by SounderJunkie on Jan 25, 2012 7:08 PM PST reply actions  

More on topic:

I’m a bit surprised to see Roger Levesque’s age being such an important consideration for how the players view him. At 31 years old, he’s really only just starting to hit the mark that your average professional footballer begins a noticeable decline in abilities.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Roger’s long-term commitment to fitness is impressive, but not necessarily because of his current age.

Sounders 'til I die

by SounderJunkie on Jan 25, 2012 8:41 PM PST reply actions  

31 is past peak for every position but keeper

for forwards it is well past peak.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 25, 2012 8:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you saying Landon Donovan is past peak?

Or Clint Dempsey, for that matter?

I mean, if 31 is well past peak, 29 can’t exactly be peak, can it?

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Jan 25, 2012 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, it is highly unlikely that a player gets better into their 30s

forwards have the youngest peak, from the very limited evidence I’ve seen.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 25, 2012 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Seems to me it's quite varied

I would say after 20 you get 5 years of improvement, 5 years of plateau, and 5 years of decline in the average player. Some players will spend longer or shorter in each category, though.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Jan 25, 2012 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Sometimes the decline is pretty steep

Not saying Roger specifically but when you lose your speed it starts to really show…

by chrisso on Jan 25, 2012 10:15 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

It also depends

how early a player broke into the first team, with constant training and games, it seems like players who were in the game early burn out fastest. I see roger as a guy that won’t lose too much. It’s usually speed that goes first, and it’s never been what he’s relied on for

by connorb3 on Jan 25, 2012 11:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Being past peak doesn't mean you're terrible

It just means you probably won’t be getting much better. I would say Donovan is past his peak, but even on the downward slope he’s still better then most players in the league.

"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."

by DarthGreedo on Jan 25, 2012 9:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes, Donovan is past his peak

Also, Levesque is not Donovan.

You can be past your peak but still very, very good if your peak was high. Levesque’s peak was, well, quite a bit lower than Landycakes’s.

by Fnarf on Jan 26, 2012 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

You are probably right,

but my feeling has always been that peak was around 27 wih only a minor decline year over year until the early 30s (where Levesque is right now)

Sounders 'til I die

by SounderJunkie on Jan 25, 2012 9:15 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

age ain't nothing but a number

As far as analyzing skills are concerned. I watched the fountain of youth (Ryan Giggs) in the match against Arsenal and he stills is owning the younger players.

by python6114 on Jan 25, 2012 10:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

If you want to concentrate on the exceptions feel free

That won’t change that most pro players careers end prior to age 30

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 26, 2012 7:19 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

i'm just saying

Its a bell curve with Ryan Giggs on one end and Freddy Adu on the other.

by python6114 on Jan 27, 2012 12:14 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Hard to disagree with the averages

A more interesting question would to ask how many years a top Euro league starter extends his career in the MLS. If the average EPL player will slip from starting ranks at 30, what age will that same average guy slip out of MLS ranks? 2-3 years later?

by seabryan on Jan 27, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

That still wouldn't change said player's peak

Peak is the 2-4 years of top performance by the individual.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 28, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

In general male athletes in all sports peak physically around 27

This is not when they are at their peak physical capabilities however. There’s been a lot of research into this in baseball. Skills that are highly dependent on physical skills (defense, base running, stealing bases) tend to peak much earlier and decline all the way through a career. The declining physical skills are counteracted by enhanced experience and an improving grasp of the mental aspect of the game.

I think it would be safe to say that in soccer, positions that depend on raw physical skill more are going to peak much sooner and decline much faster as the improved experience and technique just can’t counteract the loss of the physical ability. But positions like GK where the physical ability is less important that experience and technique will peak later and have a much slower decline.

by arbeck77 on Jan 26, 2012 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

estrada is my player to watch in 2012

He improved quite a lot last year, you can see he is more comfortable and towards the end of last year against new england he was really good. I think he is developing at the pace that they expected when they drafted him.

by python6114 on Jan 25, 2012 10:09 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

I agree

Like Neagle last year I view Estrada as the young player most likely to step into a larger role this year. Developing versitility makes it more likely and with Johansson a possible Euro participant we made need a Right Back who can play a string of games.

by Neem on Jan 26, 2012 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

the depth

Is unbelievable again this year and I personally feel its better.

by python6114 on Jan 25, 2012 10:37 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

I have to agree

and I was worried going into this offseason

by connorb3 on Jan 25, 2012 11:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree.

Have to say that it’s not just the depth but also the versatility of the guys that are competing for roster spots that is really encouraging.

by DaveValleDrinkNight on Jan 26, 2012 2:58 AM PST up reply actions  

no depth

yest again. there is depth but by unproven college players and foreigners that have never played in MLS. if you feel comfortable with that then so be it.

by fuzzyforeigner on Jan 26, 2012 9:49 AM PST up reply actions  

If the Sounders 2nd XI were an MLS team, they would do okay

That’s depth in the MLS. Most MLS teams, if their full first team was unavailable, would be hopeless. See the LA Galaxy.

by CMC_Stags on Jan 26, 2012 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I wouldn't totally write off LA's depth

They won the Supporter’s Shield and won their group in CCL play. You don’t do that by playing the same 14 guys over and over again.

by ubelmann on Jan 26, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

The Sounders had 14 players with 10 or more MLS starts last year

The Galaxy had 15 players with 10 or more MLS starts last year

The Sounders had 7 players with 5-9 starts and the Galaxy had 6 players with 5-9 starts.

I don’t know what the MLS/CCL breakdown looks like for the two teams, though, since I don’t see CCL starts readily available. At the least, it’s not obvious to me that LA’s depth was so bad. LA’s depth seems to be old and veteran rather than young and promising, which seems to work with Arena’s system.

by ubelmann on Jan 26, 2012 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not just who had more players getting X minutes

A team that loses 6 starters to injuries throughout the season would dominate this stat…it’s more about how well they do when they’re on the field. I would say Seattle and LA are both very deep for the MLS. I highly doubt our second string XI would do well as their own team in the MLS, though…being ‘deep’ and having players 11-22 able to compete against the top teams in the league are very different things…

by dc13 on Jan 27, 2012 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

i feel very comfortable

Our scouting department seems to be best in the MLS. So I’m pretty confident in our unknown foreign players.

We demolished the reserve league last year and we did it with mostly young players all of which are pretty much back and better.

I could continue with my qualitative reasoning, but I won’t just that I feel confident.

by python6114 on Jan 27, 2012 12:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Zach Scott?! WTF?! We want more OG's?

Zach Scott is made of puke and has an uncanny knack to score own goals. He should be relegated to the reserves for the remainder.

by fivenodes on Jan 27, 2012 9:35 AM PST reply actions  

comedic relief?

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 27, 2012 9:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I certainly wouldn't want him as a day-in day-out starter

But he’s not that bad. He’d probably be the Timbers’ MVP!!!!!

by dc13 on Jan 27, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

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