Seattle Sounders Make Five Cuts, Training Camp Roster Still At 39
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 11:27 AM PST
in Sounders: News
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PrintEven after bidding farewell to five players, the Seattle Sounders' list 39 players as participating in training camp as the team begins activities in Casa Grande, Ariz. The five players who were let go were Sounders academy product Darwin Jones, University of Washington product Abdul Aman, goalkeeper Tyrel Lacy, invitee Jonathan Prieto and an unnamed trialist. Injured players O'Brian White and Michael Tetteh also didn't travel to Arizona as they receive treatment in Seattle.
Replacing those players were several expected names. Adam Johansson is meeting his new teammates after his stint with the Sweden national team kept him out of the first couple weeks of training. Also joining the team are recent draft pick Wes Feighner and Honduran trialists Ever Alvarado and Harlinton Gutierres. Jamaican trialist Andrew Vanzie, who until now was with the team as an unnamed trialist, has been officially added to the training camp roster.
In all, things haven't really changed that much since camp opened. The competition for spots, especially at the tail end of the roster, is still fierce and there doesn't appear to be any clarification as to who will be the Sounders' backup goalkeeper.
Taking a quick glance at the roster (the full version is after the jump), I'd venture to guess that about 23 players all but have their spots assured. That leaves 16 players fighting it out for the remaining 5-7 spots. Any number of factors could come into play, and there's a chance a few of these guys could continue to train with the team even if they don't make the roster.
Sounders FC Training Camp Participants
Goalkeepers: Josh Ford, Michael Gspurning, Bryan Meredith, Andrew Weber.
Defenders: Ever Alvarado, Marc Burch, Andrew Duran, Wes Feighner, Leo Gonzalez, Harlinton Gutierres, Jhon Kennedy Hurtado, Patrick Ianni, Adam Johansson, Jeff Parke, Tim Pontius, *Michael Tetteh, Zach Scott.
Midfielders: Osvaldo Alonso, Jason Banton, Servando Carrasco, Alex Caskey, David Estrada, Brad Evans, Alvaro Fernandez, Roger Levesque, Lamar Neagle, Mauro Rosales, Andy Rose, Amadou Sanyang, Michael Seamon, Christian Sivebaek, Andrew Vanzie, Steve Zakuani.
Forwards: Cordell Cato, Mike Fucito, Fredy Montero, Sammy Ochoa, Babayele Sodade, *O'Brian White.
*Stayed in Seattle for Rehab
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Could use a breakdown of the safe 23 players
Would be nice to see an article that clearly outlines the 16 players fighting for the 5 – 7 spots. I know we should be able to figure that out with a little effort, but would make for good conversation around who should be kept, etc.
My Guess
GK: Gspurning, Ford, Meredith (3)
D: Marc Burch, Andrew Duran, Leo Gonzalez, Jhon Kennedy Hurtado, Patrick Ianni, Adam Johansson, Jeff Parke, Zach Scott (8)
M: Osvaldo Alonso, Servando Carrasco, Brad Evans, Alvaro Fernandez, Roger Levesque, Lamar Neagle, Mauro Rosales, Christian Sivebaek, Steve Zakuani (9)
F: Cordell Cato, Mike Fucito, Fredy Montero, Sammy Ochoa, O’Brian White (5)
That is 25. White and Zakuani are special cases due to injury.
I would be shocked....
if Weber doesn’t take a spot from either Ford of Meredith…and that’s not a diss on either of them. Weber is simply a well regarded and much more experienced MLS keeper. Meredith has played one nearly meaningless CCL game (although that 1 see would have been nice in retrospect) and one good high-pressure US Open Cup game for Kitsap. Ford has played ZERO games for the A team and is nursing an injury. If I had to guess, I would guess #1 Gspurning, #2 Weber, #3 Meredith with the Sounders trying to help Ford and keep tabs on him the same way they did with Meredith last year. By all accounts, Ford has been impressive…but that’s a tough crew to fight among while nursing an injury.
Weber
I don’t think Weber’s experience (2 MLS matches, 29 USL matches) is tremendously better than Meredith’s (14 PDL matches, 1 CCL match). Also, at the beginning of last season, the team preferred Ford to Meredith as a long term project. With Weber’s 2011 salary reported at $65k and with the fact that Meredith and Ford would be non-salary cap apprentices, I would not be shocked to see Weber on the outs. Now, if there were an more experienced keeper brought into the mix, I would agree that Ford and Meredith would be competing only with each other again this year.
I think there is a real difference...
30 2nd division matches are better than 14 4th division matches.
Weber is an MLS-caliber player (I saw both his MLS matches). He doesn’t need any development work, he can come right in and start at an average to above-average MLS level tomorrow.
Main concern would be cap hit but 60k is not bad for a 2nd keeper it’s pretty standard really and I’ve seen many teams pay more than that.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jan 31, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah...
16 matches. Ha ha, I kid. I agree there is some difference but am not sure that it is all that great. I have only seen Meredith play and him only twice. So, my assumption is that if the team believes Meredith and Ford are better keepers, Weber’s somewhat limited experience is not going to get him the spot. Put another way, I think Meredith and Ford are the incumbents and Weber is going to have to play them out of spots (with his higher cap number balancing his experience).
Extensive discussion of the keeper depth chart? Must be deep into the offseason. I cannot wait for March 7.
it's a pretty massive difference, imo
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
"Extensive discussion of the keeper depth chart? Must be deep into the offseason. "
true that!
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Jan 31, 2012 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't give Weber an edge...
…but at the same time, I wouldn’t give Ford or Meredith an edge, either. As far as I can tell, the 2nd and 3rd GK spots are up for grabs. Boss beat out Meredith last year around this time, so it wouldn’t exactly shock me if Weber beats someone to get the 2nd or 3rd spot.
I think this competition is one of the most open of the whole roster
That said the known quantities would typically get the advantage. Not to mention Weber possibly getting guaranteed contract status per MLS rules versus the Ford and Meredith options. Although I could be wrong on the guaranteed contract status…in which case even more open competition.
23
F: Montero, Fucito, Ochoa, Cato
M: Rosales, Zak, Fernandez, Evans, Alonso, Sivebaek, Levesque, Carrasco, Estrada, Neagle
D: Gonzalez, Hurtado, Parke, Johansson, Ianni, Scott
GK: Gspurnie, Ford, Meredith
OBW injured so left off, Zak is training so he might get a spot anyway.
Bubble: Duran, Burch, Tetteh, Rose, Sanyang, Banton, Sodade (I’d expect 2-3 of these guys won’t make it)
I know next to nothing about all the new guys, so take what I say with a grain of salt. If you want OBW in my 23 then replace Cato.
I would think Burch is a lock
as long as he doesn’t perform really badly. Who else would play left back besides Leo? They sure don’t seem confident with Tetteh back there.
The return of THIERRY
He does
but nearly every player under contract can be cut by March 1st. It’s highly doubtful the Sounders would reach an agreement with a player they intend to cut though.
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just saw your post...
posted the same thing as a reply above. I would bet on Weber coming out as the #2 after a spirited camp competition for the spot.
Either way, there will be exactly 3 GKs
Right? The more interesting part of the discussion is which field players are on the bubble.
League requires a minimum of 3
and roster limitations pretty much dictate no more
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Jan 31, 2012 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
I find the backup GK question very interesting
Whomever gets the #2 spot will be spending a lot of time between the nets for games. Too many games between CCL, Open Cup and league games for one keeper to handle. He’ll probably see more time then our 5th winger on the roster.
Our schedule's not that different from last year...
…where Keller played nearly every game. That said, I think there’s the potential that our backup keeper sees more time this year.
In fact, the schedule is less congested this year
Just 4 CCL matches in the fall as opposed to 8 last year.
But more CONCACAF in the spring
Two quarterfinal matches for sure, and hoping for four more beyond that! Versus zero spring CONCACAF matches last year.
I'm refraining from expecting Gspurning to live up to Keller
I think Keller was unusual in the number of games he played for us last season. He was definitely an iron man for the club. I fully expect Gspurning to play fewer games.
I don't know how Gspurning lives up to Keller skill wise
But at 12 years younger his body should be able to recover at least as quickly as Keller’s. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gspurning play just as many games.
Yeah
I’m not expecting Gspurning to be the overall player that Keller was, but I’m going to be at least a little disappointed if he doesn’t hold up as well physically, given their age difference.
Keller was so fundamentally sound
Seldom off balance, rarely had to put unusual torque on his body. He stayed in shape. He read the game well, made sound, conservative decisions which meant he had fewer potentially injury causing collisions. Plus the respect he commanded kept all opponents from attempting anything cheap against him. Some players make their own injury luck.
by look4wrd on Jan 31, 2012 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not really talking about injuries
Just about fitness. It’s true that a fundamentally sound keeper will likely have an easier game than someone who doesn’t know what he’s doing out there, but 10-12 years can make a big difference, too. We’ll see how it pans out, I guess.
Injury List
It seems roster congestion might be eased a bit by Steve and OBW starting the season on the injured list. That would open a couple of roster spots, require the player to sit the first six games, at least, but not provide salary cap relief. Given that OBW is not training with the team, it seems he is, at best, headed to the injured list and, with Steve’s comments on Extratime Radio, he is not expecting to be back until May or June (we play six games prior to May 2). That would provided two additional spots for the short term.
if OBW isn't going to make it back
his cap hit of 100K may make the FO think twice about keeping him, even on the IR. I’m all for them being supportive and helping him recover, but if he’s likely to not ever get back on the field again, then…
What’s the story with Tetteh being injured?
OBW
I don’t know where the line is on probability of return for OBW before you have to cut him. I am afraid, despite OBW’s potential, that I would have to be awfully sure before I have him a roster spot and took the cap hit.
Tetteh was reported to have a hamstring injury.
I can't imagine
there would be anything stopping them from keeping him with the team, just not as a player. Perhaps hire him to a desk job or coaching job and continue to treat the injury.
At some point though they don't have room in the FO/elsewhere to hire people
by chrisperry1983 on Jan 31, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
there is a new U-23 team here in T-town that could use that kind of influence...
Adrian has already talked about getting players down here and getting them some bucks in their pockets through camps, etc. OBW doesn’t fit that mold exactly…but a similar arrangement while he works solely on fitness is not out of the question.
This all depends
on what other skills he has. Does he have his badges? Does he know accounting?
by sammysounder on Jan 31, 2012 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
I've imagine there's a salary cap rule against it.
Though Onstad did switch from coach to player last year for DCU.
by yuniform on Jan 31, 2012 11:58 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
It might be that
he’d have to retire to be hired on. But I don’t think theres anything stopping OBW from being cut (and therefore off contract) and getting a regular job anywhere else, so why couldn’t he get a regular non-playing job with the Sounders where one of the perks is access to medical facilities, trainers, and personal health insurance?
there wouldn't be
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Well I'll be. Sounds like a loophole.
by yuniform on Jan 31, 2012 12:53 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
If he's retired, it's not really a loophole
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Not really that much of a loophole
Presumably the Sounders would lose any claim they had to OBW as a player and if/when he was ready to return to the league he’d probably be assigned by weighted lottery.
my guess at players that are making the final 30
gspurning
ford
meredith
gonzalez
hurtado
ianni
johansson
parke
scott
alonso
carrasco
evans
fernandez
levesque
neagle
rosales
sivebaek
zakuani
fucito
montero
ochoa
white
tetteh seems out of favor and is injury prone. Sanyang hasbeen the worst player on the pitch when ive seen him. I know nothing about burch as ive seenhim play but it wasnt memorable.
im guessing seamon, cato, duran and rose make the roster. is there room for wingers banton and estrada?
by Tyler Jacob Chott on Jan 31, 2012 11:50 AM PST reply actions
I would expect that at least one, if not two, of the following players will make the roster at CM
Seamon, Rose, Vanzie … it’s definitely a position of need, as we lost Friberg and did not replace hime wiith a veteran from outside the club.
except...
Seamon is the only attacking CM of that bunch. Rose and Vanzie, afik, are both more in the Alonso role and we have coverage there.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe, I'm not sure ...
we need more attacking mids. Montero takes up a lot of the traditional CAM space while Rosales is the top backup in that hole. If we end up with more talented DMs than attacking mids than I wouldn’t mind keeping the DM and trying Ozzie in the attacking role.
by sammysounder on Jan 31, 2012 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
that would seem to be a rather massive waste of his skills
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 1, 2012 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
Ochoa also did not travel
https://twitter.com/#!/mattgaschk/status/164384902484209665
Gutted for OBW
I’m trying to remain hopeful but, based on the very limited info I know of, I have a hard time believing he can continue on as a professional soccer player. His cap hit would hurt but I dont want to see the team throw the guy out on the street. This isnt the NFL.
Go banana!
Hmm, good question
I was thinking more along the lines of what Jamie Moyer did last year with the Phillies. They cut him, but let him use the team facilities/doctors to rehab. Granted MLB and MLS is an apples/oranges comparison.
Go banana!
That's a situation where not having a salary cap helps MLB deal with situations like this..
…when a player is legitimately injured and just needs help rehabbing. I wonder what the best way to deal with this is in a league with a hard salary cap, where making exceptions for injured players could easily lead to gaming the rules. Maybe something like a league rehab center would work, where a player like OBW would be sent after preseason training until league doctors gave him the go-ahead to play again. Then Seattle would have to make a (potentially) hard choice. It’s unclear where the money for something like that would come from, or who would run it.
Well, as we know, MLS does grant exceptions on a whim
This is a unique situation, where have we heard that before?
Go banana!
It's too bad we don't have something like a 40-man roster...
…where we could keep OBW and not take a cap hit until he was cleared to play again. I’m not sure I have a hard time believing he’ll be able to continue as a professional soccer player—he came back once already on an extremely aggressive timetable—but his career is in very real jeopardy. I have to imagine that no matter whether he’s on the roster or not, the Sounders will find a way to make sure his health care is paid for.
That's basically spots 21 and up
They don’t have a cap hit. While on the injured list he doesn’t take up a roster space.
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But those spots have limited salary / experience levels that OBW won't fit into
I’m curious with the new Tetteh injury. Since he’s a GA player and doesn’t count against the cap, the team could put him on the injury list (non season ending) and basically get an extra roster spot without the cap hit that putting OBW or Zakuani on the Injury List would entail.
That being said, if OBW doesn’t look like he’s going to be able to play this year, the team can’t afford to keep him on the books come roster deadline day. Carrying even a reduced salary (unless they can get it to a point where it fits into spots 21 and up), the team would have to take someone with more ability to contribute in 2012.
Right...
…the major difference being that in MLB, you can send down a player to the minors regardless of salary as long as he has options left. In MLS, it seems like any player making serious money (like OBW) has to count towards a senior roster spot.
The most unfortunate part of this is having Zak and OBW both likely to need to start the season on IR. If Zakuani hadn’t had his leg broken, then the team would have more flexibility to maybe take a chance on OBW’s salary. Either way they decide, the Sounders will be taking a risk.
Dave
You mentioned in another thread that you thought Sodade did not impress and preferred that he got cut rather than someone else that did – who was that one? Jones?
by chrisperry1983 on Jan 31, 2012 11:54 AM PST reply actions
I prefer Prieto (who is an Alvaro light)
over Sodade based off of this camp.
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El Pluma?
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Jan 31, 2012 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
I think he’s saying he wishes Sodade was cut instead of Prieto
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Jan 31, 2012 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
Just confirming
Hadn’t seen much about Prieto in reports and a lot on Sodade. Granted, haven’t read it all and Dave obviously saw both for himself.
Draft picks tend to get attention
Superdraft picks even more.
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Alvaro light?
Like just bone not skin and bone? I would imagine a target forward option needs to stay in camp.
by Tstuar on Jan 31, 2012 2:39 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Yes playing style not physique
it was almost certainly down to positional need
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Rosternator?
Any chance we can revive the Protectinator and re-purpose it for roster spots? The extent of technical ability consists of marking comments as unread, so I am not the guy to do it.
by @Thomas513 on Jan 31, 2012 12:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
we can discuss that
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
Mrisho Ngassa?
Whats the story with the Tanzanian midfielder Mrisho Ngassa? I thought he was coming over to trial, but I haven’t seen him mentioned in any reports or training camp depth charts.
good point!
I forgot about Ngassa. I would expect him to at least get a look. The problem is that he plays a position at which we have soooo many players in training. The position that seems thinnest still is the B2BCM…We have Evans, Rose, Vanzie?, Alvaro?, Mauro? …. seems like a lot of Qs for such an important position.
He's expected to joining the team in Feb
likely during the Florida phase.
There may be other trialists brought in as well.
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What happens with guys like Banton and Cato...
My impression is that they have contracts….Banton does with MLS for sure. What happens if the Sounders choose to cut them?
It all depends on the contracts
we don’t know if they are guaranteed or not. I would think the Sounders are under no obligation to keep banton and Cato might be guaranteed. I’m assuming there’s some flexibility with both.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
With draft picks, I believe the team keeps their rights for 2 years. They could go play for the Battery or Tacoma them try again next spring.
by yuniform on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
that's true with regular draft picks, and there is no salary involved if cut...
Banton is one of those international players scouted and signed to contracts by MLS, then brought to the combine in Vegas to be put on display. These players all seemed to drop in the draft and my assumption was that they dropped because they came with contract obligations and were, thus, more of a risk. Can anyone shed any light on this?
They're listed in the second sentence of the post.
by Jackington on Jan 31, 2012 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
thank you
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I'll confess it took me a second to parse that opening paragraph myself.
But maybe it’s just a case of the Mondays. On Tuesday.
I hate Tuesdays that feel like Mondays
by Dizzo on Jan 31, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I always have the Mondays on Tuesdays
Because Tuesday is my Monday
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No shocks on the cut list so far
The ones named in the article are names I expected to see on the cut list at some point. Low round draft picks have a huge uphill battle. Darwin Jones could be a good Sounder in the future, but its a tough battle for roster spots. Lacy never struck me as a good bet to stick.
Next round we might get some surprises and controversy on the cut list.
I hope he arrived in camp in shape for his sake
I’m sure the staff will be understanding if he picked up the injury during normal training. However, if he was out of shape, like Seamon was last season, he could easily get cut.
Tetteh is dirt cheap right now
and we’re not worried, as I see it, about actually having a roster spot to keep him. I could see him getting loaned out for the entirety of the season if they don’t see him in the plans at all, but I just can’t see him getting cut yet. If we’d gone through this for two years I’d be with you more.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Jan 31, 2012 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
If he is "hurt" though, they can put him on the injury list until he is "healthy" without a cap hit due to his GA status
At least that’s my understanding.
Now I have no idea how hurt he really is – and if they are leaving him behind for treatment I have to believe it’s nontrivial – but this would be a good way to expand the cap by a slot until the team has a better idea what’s going to happen with Zakuani, OBW, and some of the new wide mids and fullbacks.
Ever Alvarado's a defender?
I thought that was Flaco’s new scent…
by mrbs on Jan 31, 2012 1:09 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Leftback
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oh left
back i guess i got my Hondurans backwords.
Leftback competition is getting crowded
I can’t imagine any of the players feel very safe right now.
Burch is probably safest
in that he’s cheap and not an international
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And I would have thought he was one of the most at risk being older and new to the team
Thanks for the perspective.
I'm very intrigued by Alvarado
Does anyone know how he’s looked? Seems to me he and Tetteh are in direct competition for the young project/3rd string leftback behind Leo and Burch. I would think Alvarado is a solid and talented young guy. As far as I understand he is an attack minded back. He has gotten plenty of time with Honduran youth teams. That’s a pretty good national team. He also probably has a lot of up-side being only 19.
by cghanson on Jan 31, 2012 5:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed with this one!
He’s still a huge unknown. I’m confident that Burch is not going to challenge Leo. I would be shocked if Tetteh did, but Alverado is still a great mystery.
by sammysounder on Jan 31, 2012 11:10 PM PST up reply actions
Finished 2011 with 32 players, currently at 28
Roster cap is 30, we had 3 IR, and 1 on loan, but 32 total, lost 9 to various reasons, signed 5 in 2012 already, which means we have 28 players signed and on the books.
We haven’t signed our draft picks, the top 2 of which have a good shot to make the squad, which gives us a nice round 30, and that’s without a 3rd Goalkeeper on the roster, so really 31, maybe OBW on IR to start the season, maybe Zakuani as well, that’s 29.
I’d argue that any trialist is going to have to shock and awe to make the team, and that there’s probably a few more safe, maybe as many as all 28 on the roster currently.
Seattle Pitch has a great roster breakdown at http://seattlepitch.tripod.com/matches/2012/2012roster.html and to access old seasons just edit both years in the URL.
Seattle ended the season with 3 keepers
And have three keepers under contract right now. Also players on loan count as players on the MLS roster. Team can’t just sign 45 guys and loan them down.
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Correction to my correction
Seattle ended the season with FOUR keepers on roster
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Tim Pontius
We haven’t heard much about him. I’m guessing he didn’t do anything special good or bad to garner the attention. How did he look Dave?
He didn't stand out to me
Couldn’t really say more than that.
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Is anyone else concerned about the lack of depth at forward?
It just looks really thin. After Montero, what’s really there?
Fucito and Ochoa, while good, haven’t quite shown themselves to be first-choice MLS forwards in my opinion. Again, I don’t think either is close to bad, I just don’t think they can do enough, over many minutes in three competitions, to draw teams off Montero.
After that there is the Dread Pirate Roger, who, while he can be effective at times (and no question he’s a Goal Celebration Balon d’Or contender), isn’t a guy one wants to be rolling out there at forward every night.
I suppose Rosales, Neagle or Estrada might merit a look. However, moving either Rosales or Neagle weakens the midfield. Estrada has been a DEEP reserve thus far, so he’s hardly a guy who could be expected to contribute significantly now.
The roster concludes with Cato and Sodade, both rookies. Cato is only 19 and might fit better as a midfielder. Sodade seemed to wow scouts before the draft with potential. However, Dave’s not impressed, which means I’m worried Sodade’s headed to the PDL.
It feels like mid-2010, before Nkufo arrived: Wondering who is going absorb some pressure to keep opposing centerbacks from murdering Fredy? Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I’d really like to swap out one of our mids for a guy that can partner with Montero on a regular basis and be a 10-goal threat in league play. Perhaps Vancouver would like to unload one of their 25 forwards?
Chicken Little, out.
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I think Ochoa grades out at incomplete to this point
We need more time before we can put him in either of the “hooray, we found it!” or “you’re a great backup, thanks for your contributions to the cause” camps. RSL match notwithstanding, and granted that was probably one of the single worst performances by a forward on this team all year, I thought he provided approximately the same danger OBW did. We got from him what I would expect from a FWD in early camp, which was basically where he was at. I’m not sure that inspires much more confidence than you have, but i think it does position him differently in terms of momentum on that scale.
Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum
by Seattle Coug on Jan 31, 2012 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
I'm more confident than you are
I personally see Fucito as a starting caliber forward in MLS. I can think of quite a few forwards in the league worse than Fucito that had significant minutes last season. I like what I saw from Ochoa, but I agree that its a stretch to call him starting caliber although we’re likely to see plenty of that from him this season. After that we’re really talking about depth and I think our young forward depth stacks up favorably against any other team in the league.
The only issue with Fucito is the team has to play differently to use him
He isn’t a guy that can take looping crosses from the corners. Since Montero is going to play and doesn’t want the cross either, it makes us very one dimensional on where we are trying to play the ball to score off of.
Maybe if Fernandez can be a consistant target in the box or Sivebaek contributes hight….
But it just makes us very small to have Montero, Rosales, and Fucito on the pitch together. If one of those guys has to sit, guess which one.
One of the things that Sigi has mentioned he looks for in the other forward
is the ability to “wear down” opposing defenders with physical play, creating even more space and time for Montero later in the game. While Fucito is short, he definitely brings a very physical element to the position, both with his speed and his strength. In that respect I think he can certainly fill the need at FW.
What’s holding MikeFu back is likely not his stature, but his weakness at effectively linking up with other players in the attacking third. Last year he was maybe a little one dimensional in terms of really only wanting to run on to through balls behind the defense.
I think his physical tools and excellent finishing are both MLS starter caliber. He just needs to add a little bit of Noonan to his game, if that makes sense.
That makes perfect sense
Fucito would be a very, very potent MLS forward if he could read the game as well as Noonan.
I'm curious to see how his chemistry with Montero changes after an offseason of being a first team TF (or a 1.5).
You have to remember that heading into the 2011 season, he would’ve been anywhere between 4-6 on the TF depth chart (behind Nkufo, OBW, Jaqua, with Noonan and Levesque thrown in). Now with an offseason of being “the guy” alongside Montero, I think his linking up ability will be markedly improved.
wait, what?
Are you saying the Sounders don’t have Top 4 talent in MLS?
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
Saying that Ochoa and Fucito are
Back ups on a talented top 4 team. They would start most games on other teams, but must share minutes on this team
"Kia Kaha" -Live strong
by Ravengreen on Jan 31, 2012 7:18 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Except that Seattle is a top 4 talent team in MLS
and they ended the season as starters…
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I think Fucito has proven he can be a starter
by scoring what 5 goals in CCL the last couple year? He hasn’t done as well in MLS, but he also hasn’t gotten consistent minutes there.
We don’t have much to go on with Ochoa, but with two goals in 301 minutes and a few other dangerous chances we can give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
Ochoa and Fucito
May very well have started for the Galaxy last year.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 31, 2012 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
Saying that Ochoa and Fucito are
Back ups on a talented top 4 team. They would start most games on other teams, but must share minutes on this team
"Kia Kaha" -Live strong
by Ravengreen on Jan 31, 2012 9:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You'll call Fucito starting caliber but not Ochoa?
Reminder. Fucito had 2 goals in 1045 minutes. Ochoa had 2 goals in 100 minutes. Of course, this is a small sample size, but the only way to see if it will keep up is to play him.
Start Ochoa.
by sammysounder on Jan 31, 2012 11:19 PM PST up reply actions
I would need to see more from him to call him starting caliber
He also disappeared in his lone (if I remember correctly) start against RSL. He’s not totally to blame for that fiasco, but he still has a lot to prove this season.
Seems like a reasonable concern...
…but I think Fredy/Fucito can probably continue to become more effective with more time to work together. If the Sounders play enough (dangerous) through balls to Fucito, that should help to create space for Fredy. Last off-season the team was gearing up to go into the season with Fredy and Nkufo/White, then had to adjust from there. Now we’re going into the season more with Fredy and Fucito/Ochoa, and perhaps more preparation for that reality will help improve the offense.
Also, it seemed like Rosales was good for changing the point of attack and relieving some pressure from Fredy. With as good as Rosales’ crosses are, teams will have to respect Flaco and Ochoa making runs into the box which should also open up some space for Fredy (space that Rosales should be able to find.)
It’s probably worth mentioning that you could say the same thing about the Sounders last year after OBW went down, yet they went on to win the USOC, finished second for the SS, and led the league in goals scored. Unless you think that Jaqua and/or Noonan were a big part of that last year.
More interested in the Sum than the Parts
I understand your trepidation. But the MLS roster rules require compromises. At the end of the day, the question isn’t who has the best individual pieces. The question is which teams function best as teams. The sum total is far more important than the individual players. Ernie Banks was one of the best baseball players of his generation. And during his entire Hall of Fame career he never won the World Series.
The Sounders have more potential weapons this year than last and last year they led the MLS in goals scored. As fans, it’s easy to get wrapped up in wanting a showstopper at all of the positions. The Sounders have their share of show stoppers. When constructing a roster, the grinders, the kids, the journeymen and the spare parts are just as important.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 31, 2012 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Very good point
I think the target forward spot is one where the Sounders can make a bit of tradeoff. Both Ochoa and Fucito are goal dangerous and will punish defenders physically. Both of those traits free up space for Montero and our goal dangerous wingers. They don’t need to be Robbie Kean (or a poor man’s Kean like Kris Boyd) to be effective.
Our offensive strength is one the wings rather than up top. Hands down we have the most dangerous wingers in the league. I’m okay with that. It’s a lot more interesting and dynamic soccer than the ‘punt it to the big guy’ ball that many MLS teams like to play (like Portland). I’d also say its much more effective when its executed at a high level.
I'm a fan of Fucito
but am I the only one who saw that Ochoa could be a beast? He’s big, fast, good with his feet and scores! Of course, we don’t know for sure but his goal-scoring record is fantastic. Of course he’s not going to keep up the 1 goal in every 50 minutes pace, but if he’s the starter this season he will score at least ten.
Maybe my memory isn't great, but I don't recall him being fast, not by a long shot.
He didn’t seem great with his feet either…hoping he proves me wrong.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
I forget which game I saw him play...
…but he was giving the defense a fair bit of trouble with his speed. I’d guess he’s in the same area code as OBW in terms of speed.
He's not nearly as fast as OBW, IMHO
By that I mean he doesn’t have the top end speed that OBW ised to great effect on through balls. But he’s much more willing to mix it up physically with defenders which causes defenders a completely different kind of trouble.
I don’t think he’s fast so much as he can make a quick move in the box to get some space for a header or receive a pass.
I guess I'll keep an eye on it
I remember him outrunning defenders last year, but SSS, and we’ll see how this year goes. OBW is a high bar, for sure, which is why I said area code rather than zip code, but in total, we didn’t get to see much of either one of them last year.
I can't deny
I’m excited to see him get more time after some real training.
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
I think a lot of people see the potential in Ochoa
At the same time, I think a lot of people are a little unsure about him because he never seemed to be fully fit last year and it just got mentioned a lot. Also, he’s had potential for a long time, but he never had a breakthrough season in Mexico. Hopefully that happens this year with the Sounders, but without having much of a track record before reaching the Sounders, I think it’s hard for people to view him as a sure thing.
Does anyone know anything about Harlinton Gutierres?
Like how old he is? How much he has played (I think for the youth team?) of Real Espana? How tall he is? Looks to be about 6’1’’ to me…and if he does indeed play CB?
Also, I read he was actually having a trial for the youth team or the u-23 team. He wouldn’t even be pro on the u-23 team right?
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
He has yet to appear in a senior game for Real Espana
Is 19
and good lord, if they sign him the 23s I’m going to give my first born to this club.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
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