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First Friday Live Question And Answer

Sounder At Heart on NBCSportsTalk

Similar to last month I'll be answering questions within comments on this post. If you stick around maybe I'll talk a bit about our new logo and scarves that are forthcoming. Keep this to soccer, as there is already an OFF-topic post for the week.

Be aware SB Nation is doing a live mock draft tomorrow, but I'm not prepping in a typical fashion because I don't think that Adrian and Sigi use methods similar to most American sports teams. I will try to make it clear as to what I'm hearing v what I'm thinking in regards to any transfer rumors. I always may share some ideas and fantasies I have that have no basis in reality.

The photo is from Thursday's NBC SportsTalk (3PM Pacific). Where due to my prompting they did in fact talk about Major League Soccer's new schedule and their carrying 38 games on NBCSportsNet and 3 on NBC.

Go!

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What do you see the Sounders doing on Draft Day?

Trade up? Trade out? Just draft whoever is available and throw the draftees into a pit together at camp?

by Abbott Smith on Jan 6, 2012 6:21 PM PST reply actions  

I foresee them maybe trading out or down

and having a royal rumble to get that last roster spot or two.

As the competition for Forward not-named Montero there will also be competition for the last four spots or so.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

What do you expect them to get back in the trades?

AM? International slot? Allocation order? A veteran back up GK?

by Abbott Smith on Jan 6, 2012 6:25 PM PST up reply actions  

in the following order

I expect them wanting Allocation Money, International Slots and veterarns at defensive positions.

I’d like them to maybe package a player and pick in some cases.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm torn between two things

Open up all seating for a regular season game this year
or
Sign an aging famous DP

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Ouch.

At this stage, I think it’d be a disappointment if they didn’t, not a surprise if they did.

Mariners Farm Review
Fan: Seattle Mariners, Seattle Sounders FC, Liverpool
Twitter

by c_dowley on Jan 6, 2012 6:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Ballack?

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Well if it's a guy who can come in and contribute that's great

What I’m saying is we don’t need someone who will bring in support based on their name. We’ve already got all the support we could possibly want as the MLS is currently structured.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Jan 6, 2012 9:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't need him

We got Honey Badger

by PeterJH on Jan 7, 2012 9:54 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Nothing wrong with TWO CDMS

Just allows everyone to play a bit farther up field.

by Agent_J on Jan 8, 2012 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

During the upcoming draft

are there players you think are “off limits” for trading or is anyone open if the right option is presented?

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 6:35 PM PST reply actions  

You mean on the current Sounders roster is anyone "untouchable" to be dealt within the league?

If so, yes

Montero, Zakuani, Alonso, Rosales, Parke, Hurtado, Fernandez and the new players this year
maybe
Evans, Fucito

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I've been surprised

about the talk of Fucito being relatively “available”. He played well and was certainly popular (if that counts). Is it more too many players for the same position so one has to be available?

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 6:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, based on the Expansion Draft his value here

is likely higher than it is elsewhere.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I like that

he’s sticking around! He’s a talented, intense player. I like to tell my non-soccer friends that he graduated from Hahvid and plays for the Sounders.

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 7:11 PM PST up reply actions  

For my non-soccer friends I point out he and Alonso

Because you don’t have to know the game to know when they are playing well.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Sivebaek

chances that he signs? Chances FO gets a CB from outside the league?

by Colin Johnson on Jan 6, 2012 6:37 PM PST via Android app reply actions  

He's on a short list of very believable rumors

Cato and Ngassa are the others.

I don’t think Seattle is currently trying to add a CB

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

We hope to have the design revealed quite soon

It is based on the preview we showed at the Date with Sounder at Heart and on the facebook page, but needs a final “can it be a scarf” design.

We will then do pre-orders and are planning on having a release party around either of the Santos games or the TFC match.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:41 PM PST up reply actions  

You mean in addition to

Alonso, Montero, Zakuani, Neagle, Fucito, Rosales and Levesque?

Parke and Gspurning

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 6:52 PM PST up reply actions  

So far the FO seems to find the

locally unknown, but impressive international players. Do you see that strategy continuing or do you think there is a “big name signing” some day/year? I don’t have a definition for the “big name” guy but one from EPL or other? How about from other MLS teams? Do the Sounders even need one?

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 6:57 PM PST reply actions  

I don't think a team needs a "name" signing

But let’s recall Seattle had two in year one (Keller and Ljungberg). And they added Nkufo which was a pretty big deal. They’ve just had more success with Montero, Fernandez, Hurtado, etc

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

I think at least for Seattle..

…the whole “we need a big name player” is really a myth. What’s in a name anyway? It’s like people bitching about Real Madrid needing a 3rd striker — while it would be nice they really don’t need one.

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by Timm Higgins on Jan 6, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Of course that is true

But people can take that a little too far. A lot of “name” signings with a good deal left in the tank are interested in MLS. These can be good signings for on the field purposes, not selling jerseys and tickets, which the Sounders don’t need help with of course.

by WendellGee on Jan 7, 2012 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

if zakuani

and obw are not healthy and go on IR for the year do there cap hits get refunded to club to buy other players perhaps in summer transfer window ?

by ravegreen09 on Jan 6, 2012 7:04 PM PST reply actions  

Explain a little about the Home Grown Player....

A team gets a certain number of them? Are they limited in the number that can be signed? Why are they a big deal (seems like the recent Timbers signing created a bit of a ballyhoo)? I like the idea of a team training a player from their academy system then signing them. Is that pretty much it though?

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 7:09 PM PST reply actions  

There's a limit to 2 that get GA deals

but no limit as to how many could be signed (well, 30). A number greater than 2 would be paid by the team only.

A team can only have a certain number from outside their home zone (50,75, or 150 miles) at each level (U18, U16). But if they are awesome they can be paid good money off cap.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:13 PM PST up reply actions  

If the Sounders

stay in the first round of the Mls draft what are the chances they select a UCLA guy ? Couple good ones there and if they can land a GA deal even better for cap hit for us

by ravegreen09 on Jan 6, 2012 7:16 PM PST reply actions  

playing for a SoCal school is one of my guidepoints for the mock draft

another is having gone to Seattle’s Vegas Combine.

Being from greater Puget Sound is my third

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Expansion Draft Gaff?

Jump in the Wayback Machine. Rumor is that Impact wanted Fucito, so we instead gave them Riley and Wahl + Allocation. That seems kinda like a bad move. If we wanted Fucito, why not protect him and make Wahl available for draft. Worst case is that we lose only one. Doesn’t seem to pencil to me, but maybe it’s the Snow Caps tonight.

by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 7:32 PM PST reply actions  

They gave us Allocation Money

not the other way around.

So Seattle freed up an extra roster space, got allocation money. Basically they gambled that Fucito wasn’t of interest and then he was. So they got space to sign a player (which they needed since they had 4 guys on DL) and money to do so.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh, and oddly enough

Snow Cap was the recipe I cloned for the Fucito inspired beer I made.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Burch = Wahl

So they were betting that they could get another player the caliber of Wahl at equivalent rates to Wahl? Do you think Burch is as good as Wahl? If so, then the bonus is the allocation $$. Ok, not bad. I do feel bad for players that need to move away from Sounders. Can’t be much better situation in the League than to play for us.

And now to my 21st Ammendent IPA. Lived next door to Brewery back in my Bay Area days. So happy when I saw the can at Whole Foods.

by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Burch to me at his best case is a left footed Zach Scott

Love 21st Ammendment. Great branding that also tastes good

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Phew

Glad that it’s “21st Amendment IPA.” I thought Charlie was on this 21st “Amendment IPA.”

by MarshallJC on Jan 6, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

ha

punctuation matters

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:02 PM PST up reply actions  

When changes who

If the signing is sooner my top choice is either Aaron Kovar (current U18 LW committed to Stanford) or Darwin Jones (Forward at a local CC right now). If they wait Yedlin (RB at Akron on US U20s) or Okoli (Forward at Wake on US U20s) or Palodichuk (b2b CM at Duke).

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:43 PM PST up reply actions  

MLS Pay Rates

I’m a newer fan, and was a bit shocked by the salaries in the league. Much lower than I expected. Do players take second jobs? Are there ways they supplement their income?

by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 7:41 PM PST reply actions  

I'm fielding this one partially

A lot of these players are young, single men. 40k goes a long way, even in Seattle.

by ClosetCoug on Jan 6, 2012 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Now players don't need to take second jobs

If they do there are opportunities in coaching or some sponsorship available. One of the positives about MLS is that players make money in “normal” ranges. Outside of the DPs they probably live in your neighborhood.

When baseball was at its peak that was true.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm mainly onboard

but their career is so short, seems like they should get a kicker. Also, I feel a bit guilty buying $9.50 beers at the Clink knowing that that money would be better off in Estrada/Seamon/Ford’s pockets than in Pyramid’s cash register.

by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Remeber

a profitable soccer team is rare

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Profitable AMERICAN soccer team.

They’re all over the place in Europe.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Jan 6, 2012 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

No, they aren't

A majority of European soccer teams are in debt. Massive debts. In several cases they are propped up by governments and banks

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 10:42 AM PST up reply actions  

No one thinks that

No idiots get to meet possums

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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Supposedly a Seahawk used to live next door.

Sports has changed in the last few decades. I imagine MLS will be the same if things keep going well.

by Agent_J on Jan 8, 2012 12:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Areas of improvement for players

Being relatively new to watching the game I would be curious to see what you guys thought were areas that each player could work on to improve their play. What are key things to watch for in the next year to see the strides the players are making?

by miked18 on Jan 6, 2012 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's a couple

Fucito – First touch
Fernandez – physicallity
Parke – passing choice
Evans – finishing
Neagle – vision

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Perfect

I will be sure to watch for that. Thanks

by miked18 on Jan 6, 2012 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Getting into the nuts and bolts of the game some more would be nice.

I’m still fairly soccer illiterate, so the the tactical stuff that malcontentjake (I think?) was doing was fascinating.

I may not have been sure about what really did interest me, but I was absolutely sure about what didn't.

by Murk on Jan 6, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Montero....

Keep scoring, and then score some more!!

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 8:23 PM PST reply actions  

I lean towards Zakuani

He’s a much better passer integrating his teammates better

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Biggest improvement this offseason

What team has done the most to improve their team in the off season?

by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 8:27 PM PST reply actions  

tactical shift at keeper

and the potential for a better crosser at right back

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Toronto should be an average team

if not better.

Dallas is clearly in Tier One now. Portland could be Tier Two.

The only team I think is worse is New England

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Considering the limitations of the salary cap...

How can this organization use its veritable mountain of money to gain a competitive advantage?

I know something like this was posed at a Supporter’s summit—but the answer would have been generously labeled as boring.

by ClosetCoug on Jan 6, 2012 8:31 PM PST reply actions  

Sounders need to use their extra revenue in areas that help gameplay

The Academy
The Reserves
Facilities

So far they’re doing a great job, but I expect more this year.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This affords me the opportunity for a follow up...

Is the Academy system going to produce players talented enough to be regulars in the MLS? I can’t escape the feeling that good soccer players would be best served by steering clear

by ClosetCoug on Jan 6, 2012 8:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Good soccer players would be best steering clear from what?

But yes, Juan Agudelo, Ethan White, Bill Hamid and Toronto’s Henry all show how good the Academy can be.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:40 PM PST up reply actions  

The academy rules are confusing at best...

But doesn’t the player make both an implicit and explicit commitment to one MLS side and thereby limit his options?

Or, if a particularly talented youngster works his way through a team’s academy, can he just say—“thanks but no thanks” and pop off to Europe?

by ClosetCoug on Jan 6, 2012 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

They could

one player got dropped from TFC’s academy for not committing to them. He’s still searching for a deal and the Whitecaps actually acquired his rights.

But committing to an MLS team does not mean that they won’t eventually go to Europe. See Altidore.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:49 PM PST up reply actions  

A few months ago

on the It’s Called Football podcast out of Toronto, they were interviewing someone from CBC Montreal about the Impact head coaching search who said that he heard that the Impact had been turned down first by Martin Rennie, then by Brian Schmetzer. Have you heard anything on this end about Schmetzer turning them down?

by drax on Jan 6, 2012 8:37 PM PST reply actions  

I haven't

And admittedly don’t listen to ICF enough. But there is no man more Sounders than Schmetzer. He’s going to be head coach #2 here.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:38 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Agree -

As long as Schmetzer has the confidence of Adrian Hanauer and Joe Roth, he would most likely be the next head coach after Sigi.

by Kiliman2004 on Jan 7, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Rosales - Better, Same or Worse than last year?

I think he plays the same, but his contribution is better.

Watched some highlights the other day and was reminded how freakin’ awesome his crosses are. With a full preseason, the team will be better sych’d on his give-n-goes and other moves, so I think we’ll see a lot better results from his performance. There were so many times that he was just waiting for players to make the right cut and they didn’t do it. it started to click in the second half of the season. If Zak comes back healthy, defenses will be stretched and it’ll open up even more space. I like!

by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 8:39 PM PST reply actions  

Same or worse

Not many attacking players get better past their 30s

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

if Rosales can keep the same form we will be in good shape

I think the issue at times was maybe getting on the same page with players, as stated earlier that seemed to get fixed later in the year and should be even less of an issue with the pre season training and retention of a large core of his targets

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:30 PM PST up reply actions  

which position do you feel has the least amount of depth

And who do you feel is our #2 keeper and are they ready for open cup/ccl matches?

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:24 PM PST reply actions  

Second keeper will be Josh Ford

I’m least confident about the RB depth right now

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:31 PM PST up reply actions  

ok to follow up

Do you feel the depth is lacking in a way that they have to address it before the season? assuming no RB in draft that will be a large enough impact to change that.

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:35 PM PST up reply actions  

They have a lot of options

but none that I’m confident in right now. One of those may work out – Evans, Levesque, Estrada, Sanyang, Draftee, Sivebaek.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

do you think

Ford is ready for open cup/ccl play?

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

He's more athletic than Boss

and has potetntial to be better at disribution.

It may be a bit dicey at times.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

was with boss at times as well

But we usually found a way to pull out a point Atleast. Thanks for answering.

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Don Garber puts a gun to your head and demands you sign an aging superstar DP

Who do you pick?

inb4 take a bullet to the head for the good of the franchise.

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Jan 6, 2012 9:26 PM PST reply actions  

Messi

does that count?

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:33 PM PST up reply actions  

...no. But I take your point.

Honestly though, I agree with your sentiment that the club shouldn’t waste too much time/money chasing after over-30 dp candidates…yet I see nothing but love for Rosales (myself included), an over-30 DP (at least probably DP) who, as you said, is not becoming a better player as time goes on.

Couldn’t there be a ‘European Rosales’ out there for this team, at DP money? Someone who could contribute, as well as bring experience and a veteran presence to a relatively young side? Or is the ‘aging euro has-been’ too stubborn of a stereotype for most candidates to shake off?

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Jan 6, 2012 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Juan Pablo Angel is probably your type of DP

or Nkufo if he hadn’t quit on the team.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Good examples

To clarify my personal-preference type of DP would be someone much younger, but some older DPs do have skills to offer.

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Jan 6, 2012 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I have all the faith in the world in our scouting department

But surely you’ve heard the story about how Rosales became a Sounder. These sorts of things just kind of fall into your lap sometimes, and if it was an easy thing to just “get the next Rosales” than everyone would do it.

by Agent_J on Jan 8, 2012 1:06 AM PST up reply actions  

Rosales

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

agreed,

Montero my second choice, didn’t he wear it once last season? IIRC he played great that game.

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Montero, Scott, Evans

have all worn it I thin.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:52 PM PST up reply actions  

friendlies haven't been announced yet

But do you have any particular teams you’d like to see (or would you like to see the friendlies done away with completely)

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:53 PM PST reply actions  

#TrophiesNotFriendlies

but I would like to see Arsenal.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

I sort of miss the lower-key friendlies.

Would have been nice to have a big-timer like Arsenal or Madrid, and then a smaller one, like Kashima Antlers (J-League). That game would draw big in Seattle.

by Agent_J on Jan 8, 2012 1:07 AM PST up reply actions  

indeed

arsenal is so popular in this area ticket sales would be outstanding, didn’t someone in the FO comment about how they listened to the fans and scaled the friendlies back to one a year?

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 9:59 PM PST reply actions  

Can we start a movement to stop "aging dp" from being some kind of great organizational evil?

If I could have Drogba, Beckham, Ballack or even Nkufo back I’d being doing handstands and cartwheels.

by ClosetCoug on Jan 6, 2012 10:06 PM PST reply actions  

No being old is evil

note – every player listed above is younger than I

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I'd be quite happy with Ballack.

A veteran CAM of his caliber would be a really nice addition.

by bago'juice on Jan 6, 2012 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Why spend the amount of money it's going to take for a player who

while has a big name is obviously on the down side of their respective careers. I just don’t see a reason why we’d have to. High Risk.

Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Staff writer for Managing Madrid & Sounder At Heart

by Timm Higgins on Jan 6, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone is saying we "have to,"

but let’s at least leave it on the table of possibility.

by bago'juice on Jan 6, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions  

where do you see Lamar neagle

getting playing time on this team when zakuani comes back fully

by Girvan0 on Jan 6, 2012 10:07 PM PST reply actions  

I don't

I know the goal is to face a Mexican side in a friendly.

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 10:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Likely more in an exhibition

not likely a public game.

This organization values winning the CCL

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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 10:22 PM PST up reply actions  

If there are things I'm not allowed to share

it doesn’t matter how you ask.

Jeremiah and I reallly try to share as much as we can when we can.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 10:20 PM PST up reply actions  

That makes sense...

really appreciate these Q&A’s by the way.

by bago'juice on Jan 6, 2012 10:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Foresee any other national team call-ups this year for any other Sounders?

I’m not sure Evans or Parke will get another call. And Alvaro always seems to be on the bubble.

by miked18 on Jan 6, 2012 10:29 PM PST reply actions  

I see in EPL games that the teams often have pretty nice

leather padded chairs. How ‘bout some of those for the boys? I thought I’d break up the intense talk of tactics and call-ups.

by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 10:53 PM PST reply actions  

I've been a fan of Bryan Meredith after I saw him play in the Open Cup

How far out do you think he is from being a starting caliber keeper in Seattle or other cities? In addition to that, how would you compare him to Ford and do you see Meredith sitting as a backup (2nd or 3rd string) if Gspurning has a good year or do you think he could go elsewhere?

Writer for InLaxWeTrust | Twitter: @danshirley | Blog: SportsMinds

by Dshirley on Jan 6, 2012 11:06 PM PST reply actions  

I really need to see more of Ford and Meredith

Ford tends to be a bit more explosive, Meredith a bit better positionally. Both are learning about commanding a line, and while they learned a lot from Keller I don’t feel either are ready to a starter in an MLS caliber league.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 11:17 PM PST up reply actions  

just finishing up a good read

I’m working my way through Soccernomics and was pondering something. At one point the author says he evaluated a twenty year period in the EPL and a clubs position on the table is 92% explainable by how much they spend on salaries. Not academies or training facilities. If this is true why is there many including yourself that always defend the club against high priced DP expenditures?

by Alonso45 on Jan 7, 2012 7:41 AM PST reply actions  

I’m familiar with the MLS cap system and budget constraints. I believe that the markets establish the players wages regardless of league. I understand the strategy of acquiring younger DPs for the possible benefit of selling them for up to $650k in allocation. That appears to be what the Sounder’s are trying to do with AF and FM.

There is a 4th way of leveraging the DP positions that you didn’t mention above. Acquiring the best players possible to faciliate on the field success. The cost of this strategy is that better players will require higher salaries. According to the author of Soccernomics the benefit is a higher probability of winning trophies.

Another related question…. If a team is going to have 3 DP’s and eat up a significant amount of their available cap with 3 players why would you pursue players whose salaries minimally exceed the DP cap hit? Is it about saving money?

by Alonso45 on Jan 7, 2012 9:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Also, according to those that have studied this actual league

There is absolutely no relationship between wages and winning. None. Not a bit. No matter what the relationship is in England it does not exist here.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

???

That doesn’t make any sense. Last year was the first year where teams were allowed 3 DP’s. Who won the trophies? Let’s give the current arrangement a few more years to develop trends before you make a statement that there is no relationship between wages and winning. If that were the case why not go with 30 minimum salary players?

Can you provide some reasoning why you think that have 3 world class players with big salaries would not contribute to teams success?

by Alonso45 on Jan 7, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

One team with 3 DPs won 2 trophies

RBNY had 3 DPs. Didn’t do squat. TFC had 3 DPs didn’t do squat. Vancouver was 4th in spending. Didn’t do squat. Portland, IIRC, 5th in spending.

And in the past five years teams could have 2 DPs. None won. There have been 75 team seasons since the DP rule was introduced. Only 1 MLS Cup and 2 Supporters Sheilds were won by DP teams.

Here’s the link again.
It has been studied.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

For what it's worth the Timbers appear to have the lowest average wage

according to this though I gather that it’s based on the MLSPU numbers and you may have better info than that.

by gee dub on Jan 7, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

actually

it was the second year teams were allowed 3 DPs and a team with zero of them won in Year 1.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Misleading

it could be argued that the examples of the teams that ’didn’t do squat’ are teams that simply used the DP option to OVERpay for some disruptive (Marquez) players, players that couldn’t save a bad season halfway through (Koevermans) etc.

If you buy players that don’t work for your setup, you will not win, regardless of how much you pay for them. It’s just worse if you overpay.

However, real quality generally does cost money. If not, why are we all okay with increasing Rosales salary greatly, or paying premium cash for Montero and Fernandez? If money doesn’t equate winning, put all our players on a low salary, see how many stay.

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Jan 7, 2012 12:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see anyone arguing to pay the whole team 45k

Also, it’s not just about overpaying DP’s. Once you get past LA and NY no one paid more then 4.5 million for the whole team. Here’s a chart that shows final team position (regular season only) and total team salary position. Looks like there really isn’t a relationship to me. Of note: Chicago got exactly what they paid for.

1 – 2
2 – 8
3 – 6
4 – 5
5 – 13
6 – 15
7 – 14
8 – 12
9 – 7
10 – 1
11 – 11
12 – 18
13 – 10
14 – 17
15 – 16
16 – 3
17 – 9
18 – 4

by Derek R on Jan 7, 2012 1:04 PM PST up reply actions  

if your data is accurate

If your data is accurate I find it quite meaningful. I’m looking at the data in 2 groups the Spenders (1-9) and the Frugalites (10-18).

The Spenders were 50% more likely to make the playoffs then the Frugalites. This is compelling considering 2 of the spenders who failed to make the playoffs were first year clubs: Portland and Vancouver.

Thanks Derek.

by Alonso45 on Jan 7, 2012 8:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Uneven playoffs

I think it would be more accurate to look at top ten and bottom eight since ten of eighteen made the playoffs. Did being a top ten spender increase your chances compared to being a bottom eight spender? In a word, No. Half of each group made the playoffs and half didn’t.

by Abbott Smith on Jan 7, 2012 10:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Trade off

I see your fourth option as a balancing act between options two and three. Because teams are limited to 3 DP slots, best available players to insure on field success is a sliding target. Three players can provide a core but will not win trophies single handedly. This is different from the EPL where all of a team’s roster can be paid market rates.

Because of the global nature of the sport, a player’s value is not determined by which league they play in. I agree with you on this. Part of my original answer was dictated by how you phrased your initial question, specifically the part of how position on the table related to overall team salary.

Since MLS has a salary cap, the issue of how much a team spends on salaries breaks down into two basic options, How much they pay DPs and how much AM then can accumulate. You are essentially wondering why the Sounders don’t focus more on DP salaries. There are two direct answers that I can see quickly. The first is building team unity through avoiding extreme stratification in the team’s overall payroll. Every player below the DPs is making significantly less than the DP salary hit. 3 full DPs eat 1 million of the team’s cap. The team must carry 15 additional players on cap and they divide the remaining 1.6 million between those fifteen or in some cases up to 17. The average ends up being 100k. If the DPs are making just 3 to 5 times that average, the team cohesion improves. If one of the DPs was making an EPL star salary of 25 million, the team has a huge discrepancy that potentially boils over into a sense of privilege and resentment. This is different from the EPL where an average player is making more than the MLS team salary cap. There’s a big difference between a star making 25 times the average player and one making 250 times the average. This is a very real problem for the MLS because they are competing for talent in a global market.

The second issue is that not all DPs incur the same salary hit. The new young DP slots enable teams to more evenly distribute their limited resources across the roster while still having DPs. The types of players who fit these slots will not need the larger salaries and lead to the AM option for expanding the salary cap.

A third option I didn’t mention for expanding the salary base of a team is the HG route. Starting level players who are paid by the league and are off cap. Once players like Yedlin get a bit more experience Seattle will leverage this option too.

Ultimately I don’t think that the Sounders won’t consider an aging DP that is the right fit. But they are going to balance that option against the other usage possible for the DP slots.

by Abbott Smith on Jan 7, 2012 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

As has been said

To equate money being spent in a non-cap league to money being spent in a heavily capped league is a bit dangerous. The biggest reason is that while the Sounders could theoretically spend $10M on one player, that kind of money doesn’t necessarily buy you a $10M player when weighed against the global market. We can probably all agree that Henry and Marquez are not really $7M players if they are only offering their services to top European teams. But MLS has to overpay in order for them to come here.

Put another way, there’s almost no amount of money you could pay Messi (or other top players in their prime) to come to MLS. He wants to play in the best league in the world and no matter what you think about MLS, it’s clearly not one of the best leagues in the world.

What you’re essentially asking, then, is why do we defend the Sounders for refusing to overpay for aging talent? I think that question kinda answers itself.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Jeremiah's point about how much it costs to come to MLS is strong

While for a majority of players they take about a 20% cut to come to MLS, the players making several million actually get overpaid to come here.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 12:39 PM PST up reply actions  

thanks

thanks guys. I didn’t mean to offend with my questions thoughts. This is a place where I feel informed supporters can ask the tough questions. I appreciate the product you are providing.

by Alonso45 on Jan 7, 2012 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

although I believe...

the above argument, although valid, can and will be used as an excuse by the more profitable owners to not make the big and risky player investments. Not saying it’s happened yet, but invevitably someone will use this type of “propaganda” to protect their profits.

by Alonso45 on Jan 7, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

It's tough though because transfer fees aren't reported

but can be used to bring in great players.

Also, as the Academy starts producing strong talent they will be inexpensive (like a 1st year baseball player compared to vets).

Could an owner profit take? Yes.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry I took offense

I shouldn’t have. You weren’t levying the accusation as I had thought you were. That’s me associating you with people you are not.

Thanks for the question. It’s an important one and one that is counter-intuitive because in every other league I’ve ever seen studied there is a relationship between salary and wins.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

other spending

Are there any studies done on money spent by the whole franchise. Such as coaching salaries, scouting budget, academy budget, and money spent on facilities and how that influences success in MLS?

by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 1:08 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Not yet

because no one knows those numbers

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Areas of improvement for Sigi

I personally think Sigi has done an amazing job over the last three seasons and I would point to how he managed August and September in 2011 as clear evidence. But I am curious what you see as his blind spot or weakness and how he needs to improve, as well as his strongest area. For example Redknapp is often criticized for not “caring” about tactics or creating an opponent specific game plan which results in Tottenham falling behind in games until he makes the necessary changes, I guess knowing which change to make is his strength. So what does Sigi lack and what does he have in abundance?

by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 10:19 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions  

Last year we saw him make earlier subs

Which had been an issue. We also saw him switch to a quick/technical forward pairing.

Both were huge improvements that led to the great season.

Things I’d like to see from him is a willingness to use different shape in specific game situations

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the reply.

He seems pretty well rounded and I cannot really put my finger on any or thing I think he is lacking. I look forward to see how he uses Zakuani, Alvaro, Rosales and Montero this coming year. I would love to see all of them on the pitch together and improve their defense a little to pick up the defensive responsibilities of a box to box CM and all four of them have a fluid interchange on the wings and in the middle of the park during attack.

by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 12:31 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

International Spots

What I haven’t seen recently (and what I’d like to learn about) is the number of international roster spots available to the Sounders. How do we actually have room for these new internationals, many of whom are who are replacing non-international player on the roster?

by gfselect11 on Jan 7, 2012 11:36 AM PST reply actions  

Alvaro is getting his green card, which helps

And Seattle gets their spot back from Portland, which also helps.

They lost Montano (international) and so that’s 3 spots open. They may have ended the year with an open spot as well

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

the generic answer

We have a ton of players with green cards who don’t count as internationals:

Montero, Hurtado, Gonzalez, Zakuani, White and Alonso are all non-citizens who do not count as internationals.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 12:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Honey Badgers National Team Call-ups?

I know Alonso has 17 caps with the Cuban national team and was the U23 Captian but I was curious what his status is now. I know he walked away from the team in ‘08 and joined the Battery but I didn’t know how that impacted things. If he played in England could he resume playing for Cuba? Has he just fallen out of favor? If he is some how banned from Cuba or the national team I read once upon a time that it is possible for any player to change allegiance through FIFA once… Is that true and if so could Alonso play for USA national team?

by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 12:46 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions  

It's highly doubtful that Cuba would let him back

He used his national team call to defect.

And since he has CAPs with Cuba he can not change allegiance. My understanding is that a player with youth/u23 calls can change allegiance.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

in an MLS article...

On April 1st two or three years ago there was a joke about Riquelme switching his allegiance to play for us I realize this was a joke but didn’t know if something like that was possible.

by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 1:12 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I'm not sure Ochoa would be a surprise

But I’ll second your belief that he’ll break out. As for surprises, I think we’ll be pleasantly surprised by David Estrada this year.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 4:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Fucito

10+ goals in all competitions

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Jan 7, 2012 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

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