First Friday Live Question And Answer
Similar to last month I'll be answering questions within comments on this post. If you stick around maybe I'll talk a bit about our new logo and scarves that are forthcoming. Keep this to soccer, as there is already an OFF-topic post for the week.
Be aware SB Nation is doing a live mock draft tomorrow, but I'm not prepping in a typical fashion because I don't think that Adrian and Sigi use methods similar to most American sports teams. I will try to make it clear as to what I'm hearing v what I'm thinking in regards to any transfer rumors. I always may share some ideas and fantasies I have that have no basis in reality.
The photo is from Thursday's NBC SportsTalk (3PM Pacific). Where due to my prompting they did in fact talk about Major League Soccer's new schedule and their carrying 38 games on NBCSportsNet and 3 on NBC.
Go!
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What do you see the Sounders doing on Draft Day?
Trade up? Trade out? Just draft whoever is available and throw the draftees into a pit together at camp?
I foresee them maybe trading out or down
and having a royal rumble to get that last roster spot or two.
As the competition for Forward not-named Montero there will also be competition for the last four spots or so.
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What do you expect them to get back in the trades?
AM? International slot? Allocation order? A veteran back up GK?
in the following order
I expect them wanting Allocation Money, International Slots and veterarns at defensive positions.
I’d like them to maybe package a player and pick in some cases.
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No, just what I expect they want
Not what I hear is going to happen.
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If there's one move you think the Sounders might actually do that would surprise most of the fanbase, what do you think it could be?
Mariners Farm Review
Fan: Seattle Mariners, Seattle Sounders FC, Liverpool
Twitter
I'm torn between two things
Open up all seating for a regular season game this year
or
Sign an aging famous DP
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One of my fellow non-Sounders SBN bloggers said the answer should
win a playoff series
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Ouch.
At this stage, I think it’d be a disappointment if they didn’t, not a surprise if they did.
Mariners Farm Review
Fan: Seattle Mariners, Seattle Sounders FC, Liverpool
Twitter
I'd much much much rather have the former than the latter.
This team doesn’t need a Beckham.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Jan 6, 2012 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
Ballack?
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Well if it's a guy who can come in and contribute that's great
What I’m saying is we don’t need someone who will bring in support based on their name. We’ve already got all the support we could possibly want as the MLS is currently structured.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Jan 6, 2012 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
Don't need him
We got Honey Badger
by PeterJH on Jan 7, 2012 9:54 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
During the upcoming draft
are there players you think are “off limits” for trading or is anyone open if the right option is presented?
You mean on the current Sounders roster is anyone "untouchable" to be dealt within the league?
If so, yes
Montero, Zakuani, Alonso, Rosales, Parke, Hurtado, Fernandez and the new players this year
maybe
Evans, Fucito
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I've been surprised
about the talk of Fucito being relatively “available”. He played well and was certainly popular (if that counts). Is it more too many players for the same position so one has to be available?
by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
Well, based on the Expansion Draft his value here
is likely higher than it is elsewhere.
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I like that
he’s sticking around! He’s a talented, intense player. I like to tell my non-soccer friends that he graduated from Hahvid and plays for the Sounders.
by Todd Peterson on Jan 6, 2012 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
For my non-soccer friends I point out he and Alonso
Because you don’t have to know the game to know when they are playing well.
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Sivebaek
chances that he signs? Chances FO gets a CB from outside the league?
by Colin Johnson on Jan 6, 2012 6:37 PM PST via Android app reply actions
He's on a short list of very believable rumors
Cato and Ngassa are the others.
I don’t think Seattle is currently trying to add a CB
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The list is short currently
but I don’t know any names on it that I think are worth adding.
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We hope to have the design revealed quite soon
It is based on the preview we showed at the Date with Sounder at Heart and on the facebook page, but needs a final “can it be a scarf” design.
We will then do pre-orders and are planning on having a release party around either of the Santos games or the TFC match.
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You mean in addition to
Alonso, Montero, Zakuani, Neagle, Fucito, Rosales and Levesque?
Parke and Gspurning
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So far the FO seems to find the
locally unknown, but impressive international players. Do you see that strategy continuing or do you think there is a “big name signing” some day/year? I don’t have a definition for the “big name” guy but one from EPL or other? How about from other MLS teams? Do the Sounders even need one?
I don't think a team needs a "name" signing
But let’s recall Seattle had two in year one (Keller and Ljungberg). And they added Nkufo which was a pretty big deal. They’ve just had more success with Montero, Fernandez, Hurtado, etc
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I think at least for Seattle..
…the whole “we need a big name player” is really a myth. What’s in a name anyway? It’s like people bitching about Real Madrid needing a 3rd striker — while it would be nice they really don’t need one.
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Of course that is true
But people can take that a little too far. A lot of “name” signings with a good deal left in the tank are interested in MLS. These can be good signings for on the field purposes, not selling jerseys and tickets, which the Sounders don’t need help with of course.
if zakuani
and obw are not healthy and go on IR for the year do there cap hits get refunded to club to buy other players perhaps in summer transfer window ?
There is no salary relief
only roster space opened up
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Explain a little about the Home Grown Player....
A team gets a certain number of them? Are they limited in the number that can be signed? Why are they a big deal (seems like the recent Timbers signing created a bit of a ballyhoo)? I like the idea of a team training a player from their academy system then signing them. Is that pretty much it though?
There's a limit to 2 that get GA deals
but no limit as to how many could be signed (well, 30). A number greater than 2 would be paid by the team only.
A team can only have a certain number from outside their home zone (50,75, or 150 miles) at each level (U18, U16). But if they are awesome they can be paid good money off cap.
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Am I crazy for thinking that 2 ppm (or very near) may not be out of the question for this team?
Even without a healthy Zakuani and White.
I borrowed from Dick Fain and did the pocket schedule
Right now I’m seeing a 60 point year.
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If the Sounders
stay in the first round of the Mls draft what are the chances they select a UCLA guy ? Couple good ones there and if they can land a GA deal even better for cap hit for us
playing for a SoCal school is one of my guidepoints for the mock draft
another is having gone to Seattle’s Vegas Combine.
Being from greater Puget Sound is my third
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Expansion Draft Gaff?
Jump in the Wayback Machine. Rumor is that Impact wanted Fucito, so we instead gave them Riley and Wahl + Allocation. That seems kinda like a bad move. If we wanted Fucito, why not protect him and make Wahl available for draft. Worst case is that we lose only one. Doesn’t seem to pencil to me, but maybe it’s the Snow Caps tonight.
They gave us Allocation Money
not the other way around.
So Seattle freed up an extra roster space, got allocation money. Basically they gambled that Fucito wasn’t of interest and then he was. So they got space to sign a player (which they needed since they had 4 guys on DL) and money to do so.
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Oh, and oddly enough
Snow Cap was the recipe I cloned for the Fucito inspired beer I made.
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Burch = Wahl
So they were betting that they could get another player the caliber of Wahl at equivalent rates to Wahl? Do you think Burch is as good as Wahl? If so, then the bonus is the allocation $$. Ok, not bad. I do feel bad for players that need to move away from Sounders. Can’t be much better situation in the League than to play for us.
And now to my 21st Ammendent IPA. Lived next door to Brewery back in my Bay Area days. So happy when I saw the can at Whole Foods.
by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
Burch to me at his best case is a left footed Zach Scott
Love 21st Ammendment. Great branding that also tastes good
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Phew
Glad that it’s “21st Amendment IPA.” I thought Charlie was on this 21st “Amendment IPA.”
by MarshallJC on Jan 6, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
ha
punctuation matters
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When changes who
If the signing is sooner my top choice is either Aaron Kovar (current U18 LW committed to Stanford) or Darwin Jones (Forward at a local CC right now). If they wait Yedlin (RB at Akron on US U20s) or Okoli (Forward at Wake on US U20s) or Palodichuk (b2b CM at Duke).
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MLS Pay Rates
I’m a newer fan, and was a bit shocked by the salaries in the league. Much lower than I expected. Do players take second jobs? Are there ways they supplement their income?
I'm fielding this one partially
A lot of these players are young, single men. 40k goes a long way, even in Seattle.
Now players don't need to take second jobs
If they do there are opportunities in coaching or some sponsorship available. One of the positives about MLS is that players make money in “normal” ranges. Outside of the DPs they probably live in your neighborhood.
When baseball was at its peak that was true.
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I'm mainly onboard
but their career is so short, seems like they should get a kicker. Also, I feel a bit guilty buying $9.50 beers at the Clink knowing that that money would be better off in Estrada/Seamon/Ford’s pockets than in Pyramid’s cash register.
by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Remeber
a profitable soccer team is rare
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Profitable AMERICAN soccer team.
They’re all over the place in Europe.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Jan 6, 2012 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
No, they aren't
A majority of European soccer teams are in debt. Massive debts. In several cases they are propped up by governments and banks
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Oh, I for got to tell you,
I’m an idiot.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Jan 7, 2012 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
No one thinks that
No idiots get to meet possums
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Supposedly a Seahawk used to live next door.
Sports has changed in the last few decades. I imagine MLS will be the same if things keep going well.
What would you guys like to see that we aren't doing?
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Areas of improvement for players
Being relatively new to watching the game I would be curious to see what you guys thought were areas that each player could work on to improve their play. What are key things to watch for in the next year to see the strides the players are making?
Here's a couple
Fucito – First touch
Fernandez – physicallity
Parke – passing choice
Evans – finishing
Neagle – vision
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Getting into the nuts and bolts of the game some more would be nice.
I’m still fairly soccer illiterate, so the the tactical stuff that malcontentjake (I think?) was doing was fascinating.
I may not have been sure about what really did interest me, but I was absolutely sure about what didn't.
by Murk on Jan 6, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We will continue to provide tactical reviews and previews of every first team game
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There was talk of getting together to kick a ball around
I think that’d be pretty cool
Isn't that why we have you?
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Montero....
Keep scoring, and then score some more!!
Who do you prefer in the Starting 11
a recovering zakuani, or a healthy Neagle?
I lean towards Zakuani
He’s a much better passer integrating his teammates better
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Biggest improvement this offseason
What team has done the most to improve their team in the off season?
tactical shift at keeper
and the potential for a better crosser at right back
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sorry, meant what team (i.e., Toronto, Dallas)
Who’s picked up their key missing pieces?
by InternetCharlie on Jan 6, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
Toronto should be an average team
if not better.
Dallas is clearly in Tier One now. Portland could be Tier Two.
The only team I think is worse is New England
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Considering the limitations of the salary cap...
How can this organization use its veritable mountain of money to gain a competitive advantage?
I know something like this was posed at a Supporter’s summit—but the answer would have been generously labeled as boring.
Sounders need to use their extra revenue in areas that help gameplay
The Academy
The Reserves
Facilities
So far they’re doing a great job, but I expect more this year.
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This affords me the opportunity for a follow up...
Is the Academy system going to produce players talented enough to be regulars in the MLS? I can’t escape the feeling that good soccer players would be best served by steering clear
Good soccer players would be best steering clear from what?
But yes, Juan Agudelo, Ethan White, Bill Hamid and Toronto’s Henry all show how good the Academy can be.
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The academy rules are confusing at best...
But doesn’t the player make both an implicit and explicit commitment to one MLS side and thereby limit his options?
Or, if a particularly talented youngster works his way through a team’s academy, can he just say—“thanks but no thanks” and pop off to Europe?
They could
one player got dropped from TFC’s academy for not committing to them. He’s still searching for a deal and the Whitecaps actually acquired his rights.
But committing to an MLS team does not mean that they won’t eventually go to Europe. See Altidore.
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A few months ago
on the It’s Called Football podcast out of Toronto, they were interviewing someone from CBC Montreal about the Impact head coaching search who said that he heard that the Impact had been turned down first by Martin Rennie, then by Brian Schmetzer. Have you heard anything on this end about Schmetzer turning them down?
I haven't
And admittedly don’t listen to ICF enough. But there is no man more Sounders than Schmetzer. He’s going to be head coach #2 here.
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by Dave Clark on Jan 6, 2012 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Agree -
As long as Schmetzer has the confidence of Adrian Hanauer and Joe Roth, he would most likely be the next head coach after Sigi.
That could be a while though. If I were Schmetzer, I'm not sure it's a situation I'd want to be stuck in.
Yeah no. Brian's a local guy who has been with Sounders as a player and coach
He will stay. He seems pretty happy with his role.
Nos audietis in somniis, Nos audietis in altum: You will hear us!
by chrisso on Jan 8, 2012 7:50 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Rosales - Better, Same or Worse than last year?
I think he plays the same, but his contribution is better.
Watched some highlights the other day and was reminded how freakin’ awesome his crosses are. With a full preseason, the team will be better sych’d on his give-n-goes and other moves, so I think we’ll see a lot better results from his performance. There were so many times that he was just waiting for players to make the right cut and they didn’t do it. it started to click in the second half of the season. If Zak comes back healthy, defenses will be stretched and it’ll open up even more space. I like!
Same or worse
Not many attacking players get better past their 30s
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if Rosales can keep the same form we will be in good shape
I think the issue at times was maybe getting on the same page with players, as stated earlier that seemed to get fixed later in the year and should be even less of an issue with the pre season training and retention of a large core of his targets
Definately not saying he'll be bad
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when does training camp start
just wondering
by alexyepz on Jan 6, 2012 9:23 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Between the 15th and 17th
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which position do you feel has the least amount of depth
And who do you feel is our #2 keeper and are they ready for open cup/ccl matches?
Second keeper will be Josh Ford
I’m least confident about the RB depth right now
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ok to follow up
Do you feel the depth is lacking in a way that they have to address it before the season? assuming no RB in draft that will be a large enough impact to change that.
They have a lot of options
but none that I’m confident in right now. One of those may work out – Evans, Levesque, Estrada, Sanyang, Draftee, Sivebaek.
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do you think
Ford is ready for open cup/ccl play?
He's more athletic than Boss
and has potetntial to be better at disribution.
It may be a bit dicey at times.
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was with boss at times as well
But we usually found a way to pull out a point Atleast. Thanks for answering.
I'm really excited to see the Ford/Meredith battle in camp
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from what i've read
Both seem to have bright futures and good skills, but are prone to silly mistakes once in a while.
Don Garber puts a gun to your head and demands you sign an aging superstar DP
Who do you pick?
inb4 take a bullet to the head for the good of the franchise.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
Messi
does that count?
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...no. But I take your point.
Honestly though, I agree with your sentiment that the club shouldn’t waste too much time/money chasing after over-30 dp candidates…yet I see nothing but love for Rosales (myself included), an over-30 DP (at least probably DP) who, as you said, is not becoming a better player as time goes on.
Couldn’t there be a ‘European Rosales’ out there for this team, at DP money? Someone who could contribute, as well as bring experience and a veteran presence to a relatively young side? Or is the ‘aging euro has-been’ too stubborn of a stereotype for most candidates to shake off?
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
Juan Pablo Angel is probably your type of DP
or Nkufo if he hadn’t quit on the team.
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Good examples
To clarify my personal-preference type of DP would be someone much younger, but some older DPs do have skills to offer.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
I have all the faith in the world in our scouting department
But surely you’ve heard the story about how Rosales became a Sounder. These sorts of things just kind of fall into your lap sometimes, and if it was an easy thing to just “get the next Rosales” than everyone would do it.
captains arm band next year
Who do you think gets it
Rosales
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agreed,
Montero my second choice, didn’t he wear it once last season? IIRC he played great that game.
Montero, Scott, Evans
have all worn it I thin.
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friendlies haven't been announced yet
But do you have any particular teams you’d like to see (or would you like to see the friendlies done away with completely)
#TrophiesNotFriendlies
but I would like to see Arsenal.
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I sort of miss the lower-key friendlies.
Would have been nice to have a big-timer like Arsenal or Madrid, and then a smaller one, like Kashima Antlers (J-League). That game would draw big in Seattle.
There's no way it would draw better than Celtic, Chivas, Monterrey
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indeed
arsenal is so popular in this area ticket sales would be outstanding, didn’t someone in the FO comment about how they listened to the fans and scaled the friendlies back to one a year?
They did
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They do
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Can we start a movement to stop "aging dp" from being some kind of great organizational evil?
If I could have Drogba, Beckham, Ballack or even Nkufo back I’d being doing handstands and cartwheels.
No being old is evil
note – every player listed above is younger than I
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Why spend the amount of money it's going to take for a player who
while has a big name is obviously on the down side of their respective careers. I just don’t see a reason why we’d have to. High Risk.
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by Timm Higgins on Jan 6, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think anyone is saying we "have to,"
but let’s at least leave it on the table of possibility.
where do you see Lamar neagle
getting playing time on this team when zakuani comes back fully
Left mid
Right Mid, maybe some forward
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Do you know specifics about if any pre-season friendlies have been lined up
to help us get into form before Santos?
I don't
I know the goal is to face a Mexican side in a friendly.
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Likely more in an exhibition
not likely a public game.
This organization values winning the CCL
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More short passes and build-up
and crossing from the right.
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Dave, are there certain things you know about (inside information)
that you’re not allowed to tell us unless we ask directly?
If there are things I'm not allowed to share
it doesn’t matter how you ask.
Jeremiah and I reallly try to share as much as we can when we can.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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Foresee any other national team call-ups this year for any other Sounders?
I’m not sure Evans or Parke will get another call. And Alvaro always seems to be on the bubble.
Alvaro or Montero
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I see in EPL games that the teams often have pretty nice
leather padded chairs. How ‘bout some of those for the boys? I thought I’d break up the intense talk of tactics and call-ups.
Sure?
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I've been a fan of Bryan Meredith after I saw him play in the Open Cup
How far out do you think he is from being a starting caliber keeper in Seattle or other cities? In addition to that, how would you compare him to Ford and do you see Meredith sitting as a backup (2nd or 3rd string) if Gspurning has a good year or do you think he could go elsewhere?
Writer for InLaxWeTrust | Twitter: @danshirley | Blog: SportsMinds
I really need to see more of Ford and Meredith
Ford tends to be a bit more explosive, Meredith a bit better positionally. Both are learning about commanding a line, and while they learned a lot from Keller I don’t feel either are ready to a starter in an MLS caliber league.
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just finishing up a good read
I’m working my way through Soccernomics and was pondering something. At one point the author says he evaluated a twenty year period in the EPL and a clubs position on the table is 92% explainable by how much they spend on salaries. Not academies or training facilities. If this is true why is there many including yourself that always defend the club against high priced DP expenditures?
The economics of EPL vs MLS
The EPL is basically an open economy with very limited travel expenses in a country where soccer is the premiere sport. MLS operates with a basic team budget of 2.6 million in salary for the entire team, with continental travel distances and is at best a distant fourth as a professional sports option and more likely much lower than that for many Americans.
The economics of the DP mechanics enable an MLS franchise to apply leveraged spending to up to three players. Teams can leverage this spending in a couple distinct ways.
Option 1. Use the DP to attract fans. David Beckam’s initial signing was used this way. Yes, he also brings his skill to the team, but one of they key motivations behind this type of signing is the cache the player brings. Seattle doesn’t need the cache’. They already lead the league in attendance.
Option 2. Bring in a veteran for their current skill set and veteran leadership. Rosales is this type of DP. The trick with this player option is to avoid the prima donna who is purely mercenary and to recognize that these players may have decaying skill sets. Not all veteran DPs are equal. Seattle has done a good job finding these type of players often for less than DP wages. Keller and Rosales are great examples. It would be accurate to say that many of us are not opposed to a veteran DP who fits the team concept but we don’t want to see this limited resource squandered on an aging prima donna looking to garner a final few paychecks at the Sounders expense without fully committing to the team.
Option 3. The other issue clouding the discussion is the possibility of using the DP slots to bring in young developing stars. These players like Flaco require DP status to cover their salary and transfer costs. The benefit of these players is that the team gets them for much cheaper than an aging DP, typically ten to twenty times less expensive, and the team will be rewarded with allocation money when the player is transferred to a higher global league. Under the economics of the MLS salary cap this mechanism effectively raises the team’s salary cap and creates the situation you are describing. The teams who spend the most on salaries tend to win. Allocation money allows MLS teams to spend more on salaries. One of they few mechanisms available for a successful MLS team to regularly acquire AM is through the development game. Hence why so many of us advocate that the Sounders use their DPs this way.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 7, 2012 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I’m familiar with the MLS cap system and budget constraints. I believe that the markets establish the players wages regardless of league. I understand the strategy of acquiring younger DPs for the possible benefit of selling them for up to $650k in allocation. That appears to be what the Sounder’s are trying to do with AF and FM.
There is a 4th way of leveraging the DP positions that you didn’t mention above. Acquiring the best players possible to faciliate on the field success. The cost of this strategy is that better players will require higher salaries. According to the author of Soccernomics the benefit is a higher probability of winning trophies.
Another related question…. If a team is going to have 3 DP’s and eat up a significant amount of their available cap with 3 players why would you pursue players whose salaries minimally exceed the DP cap hit? Is it about saving money?
Because transfer fees also qualify the player as a DP
like Fernandez
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Also, according to those that have studied this actual league
There is absolutely no relationship between wages and winning. None. Not a bit. No matter what the relationship is in England it does not exist here.
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???
That doesn’t make any sense. Last year was the first year where teams were allowed 3 DP’s. Who won the trophies? Let’s give the current arrangement a few more years to develop trends before you make a statement that there is no relationship between wages and winning. If that were the case why not go with 30 minimum salary players?
Can you provide some reasoning why you think that have 3 world class players with big salaries would not contribute to teams success?
1) I think we can all agree that a crapshoot like the play offs is a poor evaluator of true talent
2) Numbers
3) Yes, LA was good last year but ask the Red Bulls how their wage scale helped.
One team with 3 DPs won 2 trophies
RBNY had 3 DPs. Didn’t do squat. TFC had 3 DPs didn’t do squat. Vancouver was 4th in spending. Didn’t do squat. Portland, IIRC, 5th in spending.
And in the past five years teams could have 2 DPs. None won. There have been 75 team seasons since the DP rule was introduced. Only 1 MLS Cup and 2 Supporters Sheilds were won by DP teams.
Here’s the link again.
It has been studied.
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For what it's worth the Timbers appear to have the lowest average wage
according to this though I gather that it’s based on the MLSPU numbers and you may have better info than that.
actually
it was the second year teams were allowed 3 DPs and a team with zero of them won in Year 1.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Misleading
it could be argued that the examples of the teams that ’didn’t do squat’ are teams that simply used the DP option to OVERpay for some disruptive (Marquez) players, players that couldn’t save a bad season halfway through (Koevermans) etc.
If you buy players that don’t work for your setup, you will not win, regardless of how much you pay for them. It’s just worse if you overpay.
However, real quality generally does cost money. If not, why are we all okay with increasing Rosales salary greatly, or paying premium cash for Montero and Fernandez? If money doesn’t equate winning, put all our players on a low salary, see how many stay.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
I don't see anyone arguing to pay the whole team 45k
Also, it’s not just about overpaying DP’s. Once you get past LA and NY no one paid more then 4.5 million for the whole team. Here’s a chart that shows final team position (regular season only) and total team salary position. Looks like there really isn’t a relationship to me. Of note: Chicago got exactly what they paid for.
1 – 2
2 – 8
3 – 6
4 – 5
5 – 13
6 – 15
7 – 14
8 – 12
9 – 7
10 – 1
11 – 11
12 – 18
13 – 10
14 – 17
15 – 16
16 – 3
17 – 9
18 – 4
if your data is accurate
If your data is accurate I find it quite meaningful. I’m looking at the data in 2 groups the Spenders (1-9) and the Frugalites (10-18).
The Spenders were 50% more likely to make the playoffs then the Frugalites. This is compelling considering 2 of the spenders who failed to make the playoffs were first year clubs: Portland and Vancouver.
Thanks Derek.
Uneven playoffs
I think it would be more accurate to look at top ten and bottom eight since ten of eighteen made the playoffs. Did being a top ten spender increase your chances compared to being a bottom eight spender? In a word, No. Half of each group made the playoffs and half didn’t.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 7, 2012 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Trade off
I see your fourth option as a balancing act between options two and three. Because teams are limited to 3 DP slots, best available players to insure on field success is a sliding target. Three players can provide a core but will not win trophies single handedly. This is different from the EPL where all of a team’s roster can be paid market rates.
Because of the global nature of the sport, a player’s value is not determined by which league they play in. I agree with you on this. Part of my original answer was dictated by how you phrased your initial question, specifically the part of how position on the table related to overall team salary.
Since MLS has a salary cap, the issue of how much a team spends on salaries breaks down into two basic options, How much they pay DPs and how much AM then can accumulate. You are essentially wondering why the Sounders don’t focus more on DP salaries. There are two direct answers that I can see quickly. The first is building team unity through avoiding extreme stratification in the team’s overall payroll. Every player below the DPs is making significantly less than the DP salary hit. 3 full DPs eat 1 million of the team’s cap. The team must carry 15 additional players on cap and they divide the remaining 1.6 million between those fifteen or in some cases up to 17. The average ends up being 100k. If the DPs are making just 3 to 5 times that average, the team cohesion improves. If one of the DPs was making an EPL star salary of 25 million, the team has a huge discrepancy that potentially boils over into a sense of privilege and resentment. This is different from the EPL where an average player is making more than the MLS team salary cap. There’s a big difference between a star making 25 times the average player and one making 250 times the average. This is a very real problem for the MLS because they are competing for talent in a global market.
The second issue is that not all DPs incur the same salary hit. The new young DP slots enable teams to more evenly distribute their limited resources across the roster while still having DPs. The types of players who fit these slots will not need the larger salaries and lead to the AM option for expanding the salary cap.
A third option I didn’t mention for expanding the salary base of a team is the HG route. Starting level players who are paid by the league and are off cap. Once players like Yedlin get a bit more experience Seattle will leverage this option too.
Ultimately I don’t think that the Sounders won’t consider an aging DP that is the right fit. But they are going to balance that option against the other usage possible for the DP slots.
by Abbott Smith on Jan 7, 2012 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
As has been said
To equate money being spent in a non-cap league to money being spent in a heavily capped league is a bit dangerous. The biggest reason is that while the Sounders could theoretically spend $10M on one player, that kind of money doesn’t necessarily buy you a $10M player when weighed against the global market. We can probably all agree that Henry and Marquez are not really $7M players if they are only offering their services to top European teams. But MLS has to overpay in order for them to come here.
Put another way, there’s almost no amount of money you could pay Messi (or other top players in their prime) to come to MLS. He wants to play in the best league in the world and no matter what you think about MLS, it’s clearly not one of the best leagues in the world.
What you’re essentially asking, then, is why do we defend the Sounders for refusing to overpay for aging talent? I think that question kinda answers itself.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
Jeremiah's point about how much it costs to come to MLS is strong
While for a majority of players they take about a 20% cut to come to MLS, the players making several million actually get overpaid to come here.
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thanks
thanks guys. I didn’t mean to offend with my questions thoughts. This is a place where I feel informed supporters can ask the tough questions. I appreciate the product you are providing.
although I believe...
the above argument, although valid, can and will be used as an excuse by the more profitable owners to not make the big and risky player investments. Not saying it’s happened yet, but invevitably someone will use this type of “propaganda” to protect their profits.
It's tough though because transfer fees aren't reported
but can be used to bring in great players.
Also, as the Academy starts producing strong talent they will be inexpensive (like a 1st year baseball player compared to vets).
Could an owner profit take? Yes.
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Sorry I took offense
I shouldn’t have. You weren’t levying the accusation as I had thought you were. That’s me associating you with people you are not.
Thanks for the question. It’s an important one and one that is counter-intuitive because in every other league I’ve ever seen studied there is a relationship between salary and wins.
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other spending
Are there any studies done on money spent by the whole franchise. Such as coaching salaries, scouting budget, academy budget, and money spent on facilities and how that influences success in MLS?
by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 1:08 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Not yet
because no one knows those numbers
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If a player comes up through the academy or training facility and does well, he's still going to get paid big bucks
just one aspect I didn’t see covered.
No current HGP in MLS is paid big bucks
even though a couple are good to great players.
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Areas of improvement for Sigi
I personally think Sigi has done an amazing job over the last three seasons and I would point to how he managed August and September in 2011 as clear evidence. But I am curious what you see as his blind spot or weakness and how he needs to improve, as well as his strongest area. For example Redknapp is often criticized for not “caring” about tactics or creating an opponent specific game plan which results in Tottenham falling behind in games until he makes the necessary changes, I guess knowing which change to make is his strength. So what does Sigi lack and what does he have in abundance?
by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 10:19 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Last year we saw him make earlier subs
Which had been an issue. We also saw him switch to a quick/technical forward pairing.
Both were huge improvements that led to the great season.
Things I’d like to see from him is a willingness to use different shape in specific game situations
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Thanks for the reply.
He seems pretty well rounded and I cannot really put my finger on any or thing I think he is lacking. I look forward to see how he uses Zakuani, Alvaro, Rosales and Montero this coming year. I would love to see all of them on the pitch together and improve their defense a little to pick up the defensive responsibilities of a box to box CM and all four of them have a fluid interchange on the wings and in the middle of the park during attack.
by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 12:31 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
International Spots
What I haven’t seen recently (and what I’d like to learn about) is the number of international roster spots available to the Sounders. How do we actually have room for these new internationals, many of whom are who are replacing non-international player on the roster?
Alvaro is getting his green card, which helps
And Seattle gets their spot back from Portland, which also helps.
They lost Montano (international) and so that’s 3 spots open. They may have ended the year with an open spot as well
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the generic answer
We have a ton of players with green cards who don’t count as internationals:
Montero, Hurtado, Gonzalez, Zakuani, White and Alonso are all non-citizens who do not count as internationals.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Honey Badgers National Team Call-ups?
I know Alonso has 17 caps with the Cuban national team and was the U23 Captian but I was curious what his status is now. I know he walked away from the team in ‘08 and joined the Battery but I didn’t know how that impacted things. If he played in England could he resume playing for Cuba? Has he just fallen out of favor? If he is some how banned from Cuba or the national team I read once upon a time that it is possible for any player to change allegiance through FIFA once… Is that true and if so could Alonso play for USA national team?
by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 12:46 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
It's highly doubtful that Cuba would let him back
He used his national team call to defect.
And since he has CAPs with Cuba he can not change allegiance. My understanding is that a player with youth/u23 calls can change allegiance.
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in an MLS article...
On April 1st two or three years ago there was a joke about Riquelme switching his allegiance to play for us I realize this was a joke but didn’t know if something like that was possible.
by Calin David on Jan 7, 2012 1:12 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm not sure Ochoa would be a surprise
But I’ll second your belief that he’ll break out. As for surprises, I think we’ll be pleasantly surprised by David Estrada this year.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
Fucito
10+ goals in all competitions
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