Toronto FC Might Be Looking To Trade No. 4 Pick; Would Sounders Be Interested?
It's tough to say how much stock to put in this kind of rumor, but Canadian Soccer News is apparently hearing that Toronto FC wants to trade out of the No. 4 spot. They have limited cap space and are looking mainly for allocation. There's a decent chance Federal Way's Kelyn Rowe could be available at that spot and we know the Seattle Sounders like the UCLA midfielder. Assuming the cost is mainly for allocation, is that a trade you'd like to see the Sounders make?
5 months ago
Jeremiah Oshan
49 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
I wish the allocation money system was more transparent (i.e. not totally opaque).
It seems impossible to accurately judge a trade involving allocation money when we don’t know how much the team has or how much they are trading.
It would be amazing if we knew this
I mean, that would make the MLS clubs the only clubs in the whole world for whom the fans know how much money they have to spend.
On the other hand,
In most American pro sports we know exactly how much cap space each team has to spend.
If you trust the FO
then the answer has to be yes. Because they’re the only ones who know how much AM they have and if it’s worth it or not. Beyond that, I’d be happy because the roster is already so tight we might only keep one drafted player. No point in drafting 3-5 guys that will contribute little or nothing this season. Let’s get one guy we know will be able to make an impact.
| Recessionproof since 2009 | Win all the trophies! | You will surely get the Karkand |
The story says Toronto
would be looking to ‘flip’ their first round pick. I interpreted this as exchanging picks and then adding in the AM. Either way, what I’m getting at is that anyone we pick at 15 or later is probably not going to contribute very much, if at all this season. Someone picked at #4, that’s a different story.
| Recessionproof since 2009 | Win all the trophies! | You will surely get the Karkand |
Not really.
It would be nice to bring in a local guy, but our midfield is already stacked. I’d rather keep the allocation money and throw it towards a top striker to pair with Montero.
Our midfield won't always be stacked.
Rowe probably won’t come in week one and be playing for a roster spot, but if he forces himself into Evan’s position, I’m not giong to complain too loudly.
Rowe isn't an Evans type player
He’s usually a winger, but could be a CAM. His defense isn’t strong enough to play the CM
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
I always think of Evans as a CAM in my mind, even if he isn't
It’s obviously not good soccer tactics, but if there’s a center midfielder that plays farther up the field than a center defending midfielder, I automatically label them “CAM”. A position I’d love to see Rowe in on this team in the next few years.
To me a CAM implies a specific type of player
the number 10. the playmaker. the guide. the Valderama. They are an assist man.
Rowe could be this. But that isn’t what Evans is and a CAM and treq like Montero will tend to similar spaces.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
I agree
Evans is a box to box MF who can make effective late runs and who does a respectable job winning 50/50 aerial balls in the MF. He isn’t a 10.
What I think the Sounders currently lack is a true CM passing outlet that launches the attack and transition. Someone who can turn the direction of play on a dime once Ozzie wins the ball back. I’d love to see the Sounders find a player who speeds up the tempo of transition on 50/50 balls in the midfield.
Traditionally the counter attack is viewed as what happens when a team commits bodies forward and then loses the ball. I’d like to see the Sounders create a situation where the counterattack can be launched by losing an innocuous ball at MF. Suddenly the Attacking CMF turns the direction of play into the Sounders creative wings and forwards and the opposing team is out of shape tactically. Evans is a solid and serviceable CM. But if they can find someone with just a bit more offensive passing creativity, this team would be scary.
You're asking them to play a diamond
which would change Montero’s play quite a bit.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
Wasn't there just a conversation
about trading ourselves completely out of the draft and trying to scrounge as much allocation as we can? Is Rowe good enough to be an impact player immidiately? And where does he fit when Zakuani is healthy and when we might try Flaco as a CM? That would make Evans the back up for Flaco and Carrasco the backup for Ozzie. But if we are selling Flaco it might not be a bad deal since we’ll have some more cash to play with.
That’s a lot of if’s and with how things stand now it seems redundant to sign him and not what we really need at this point.
-Ben R.
it's fair to assume
That drafting Rowe would not fill an immediate need. But does that mean he’s not worth drafting?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I think there's only one player in this draft that fills an immediate need
Wenger and there’s no way Seattle trades up to get him (please prove me wrong)
No one else in this draft cracks a 2 deep if every current player is heathy.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
which immediate need is that?
It sounds like he’s a CB at MLS level.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
He could play CDM, CB or RB in MLS
All areas where Seatlte could use depth. Think of him as Ianni or Carrasco with better on-ball skills and the abity to score.
And if your immediate needs are back-up RB, 4th CB or Alonso’s backup it isn’t a strong need.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
Yes
We need more depth along the back line. As much as we could use a striker to partner with Montero, I’d like to see the draft pull in some backline depth to replace Ianni, Scott, and Gram
i'm not sure backup RB is anymore of a need than backup CM
Unless I’m missing something
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Jan 7, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Rowe isn't a CM
He’s a winger and maybe a CAM
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
So
Wenger wasn’t at the combine. It is assumed that he was told by one of the top few picks not to show up because he’d be a top pick anyway.
by Adam Waltering on Jan 7, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
He was picking up his Herman trophy
and then going to U23 camp. Rowe only did the first day I believe.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan
If I remember correctly, doesn't combine performance expose a lot of players as sort of a true test?
I’d be slightly worried using a high pick to draft a player who doesn’t attend. I feel like last year’s combine forced a lot of stocks to rise and fall, and ultimately shake out similarly as the MLS season happened. Andre Akpan comes to mind, I remember a lot of hype around him, then he played poorly in the combine, went as a second round pick, and has been subsequently loaned out to lower league teams.
Not that Wenger/Rowe have shown any signs of being busts, but it’s happened before.
by chrisperry1983 on Jan 7, 2012 5:16 PM PST up reply actions
Wenger a different beast
This year he was the ACC Offensive player of the year, playing out of position because Duke needed him as a forward.
Last year as a Sophomore he was the ACC Defensive player of the year. An underclassman who one year is the ACC Defensive POY and the next the ACC Offensive POY is unheard of and quite frankly so unreal that you wouldn’t make it up if it hadn’t actually happened.
He can play CB, RB or CDM and he has a nose for the net. Think ForMidFender as a first round draft pick. As much as I like a number of this year’s top draft picks, I would scream myself hoarse with joy if the Sounders could find a way to pry this player out of this year’s draft class.
Yeah that was probably sacreligious of me to even mention Wenger
by chrisperry1983 on Jan 7, 2012 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
There isn't any player who shouldn't be questioned
I don’t think you were wrong to pose the question. I simply was stating why I personally think he is not as likely to fall victim to an over evaluation of his skills.
If Rowe had skipped the Combine, that would be a horse of a different color. And Wenger is casually relaxing. He’s attending U23 camp. He’s going to get seen against all star caliber players his age.
It depends on how much allocation they want
As long as we have enough to buy down Mauro from a DP slot, I say go for it. If Flaco’s going, then DEFINITELY do it.
I agree on if Flaco's going
But unless we still would have enough cap space after buying down Mauro’s salary to get a 3rd DP (I assume it would have to be a youth). Then is there much sense in spending the allocation money there?
This is the key bit.
If we expect to sell Flaco, picking up Rowe would be a great move.
I seem to be reading that many think Rowe is close to MLS ready. Would someone more in the know be able to estimate when he would start to contribute, should we be able to draft him?
by magistermilitum on Jan 7, 2012 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
Draft strategy
Pick up the best you can, worry about their position later. If it’s Rowe, then they should make the move to get him. On Flaco, I wouldn’t read too much into that rumor that was out earlier. It was quite vague and he was simply mentioned in passing as another Uruguay international.
Not for any significant amout of allocation
if they want something else in less short supply, the Sounders should jump on it (possibly a trade for a journeyman player on our roster, possibly an international slot for a season if we’re okay in that area).
Rowe isn't the only option
There is a good chance that there will be worthwhile players available at the #4 pick. Wenger and Mattocks will be gone by then, but everyone else is a possibility at #4. There is also the possibility that NE may be willing to trade the #3 pick now that Billy Schuler bolted for Europe.
Rowe is a good prospect. He’s creative with vision and a deft passing touch plus he’s local. He’s a good project for the Sounders to bring in now with an eye toward the future. He’s a bit slight physically but he has time to grow into a more adult physique.
Enzo Martinez is another good option who might be available at the 4th pick, if the team is looking for an attacking CM to back up Evans. Great vision and touch, very creative and an insane pedigree. Led his HS team all 4 years and scored hundreds of goals. Was listed as one of the top prospects of the past decade going into to college. Led NC to multiple college cup appearances and help them win it all this year. He looked very solid in his first Combine game even though he did sky a penalty shot. Luis Silva and Nick DeLeon are two other Attacking CM options. These 4 players are in the top 8 prospects on most big boards and they are all attacking mids if Seattle wants to get a little more prospect depth behind Evans.
Another option is for the team to move up and select one of the premium forward candidates. Mattocks will be gone but Dom Dwyer, Chandler Hoffman and players like Casey Townsend will likely be available. The Sounders could use another forward with a nose for the goal on the bench. I’ve made no bones about my preference for Hoffman. He’s a player who has scored at every level he has played in. And he has a nose for the goal. He reentered the first Combine game yesterday in the final two minutes of the game and had a breakaway that the goalie pushed just wide of the goal mouth and then scored the winning goal at the end of regulation. All in two minutes.
All but one of the following players will be available at pick 4 and they all may be : Rowe, Hoffman, Martinez and Silva. None of them will be available at pick 15 no matter what Ives Galaracep thinks. (His latest board has Hoffman slipping to Seattle at 15.) If the Sounders want to make a move up, 3rd or 4th is going to net them a serious prospect.
As for AM, I guess the team would prefer to part with picks rather than AM, but if AM is what it takes, then they might go for the deal.
I would absolutely love Martinez.
I understand the like for the Hometown kid, but I think Martinez is better. Really like him after seeing him play a few times live.
Roster slots?
Who is more likely to contribute this season and/or be a star for the team in the next few years, someone we could get with the 4th pick or one of the young prospects we’re linked with from the Carribean or east Africa?
I would say one of the draft kids.
Especially that high.
Very good quality attacking midfielders at the top of this draft.
I'd go with the draft pick
But there is a difference in cost. The Sounders don’t have to give up anything in trade to get the International prospects. The 3rd or 4th pick is going to cost. The reality is though that the Sounders are in position to do both. They simply don’t need the plethora of picks they have this year. They are going to trade for something on draft day. I would like to see them trade up as at least one of their moves.
As much as I respect the fine folks at CSN and that includes Duane he is fairly off on this by reporting it as a “rumour”. Instead it is not really anything more than an idea that a lot of people are suggesting since the team is right up against the cap as it stands when you consider the potential re-signings of Plata and Eckersley.
The fact of the matter is that Winter and Mariner have both gone on the record to a number of people saying that they are not looking to trade either pick and are focused on picking up hopefully two generation adidas players who are capable of contributing next season. In my eyes that makes sense as a pair of GA talents would be worth more than the cap relief an allocation deal would bring unless it is a very large sum.
I have heard is suggested by reliable sources that TFC has taken long hard looks at Marinez, Rowe, and DeLeon so having done that I don’t think they will pass up on all of them. If they do trade down it won’t be very far down the order. Might be willing to slip down from 12th if Jean-Baptiste is gone and they think they can get someone like Berry later in the first round.
Writer for Toronto FC blog Waking The Red
http://wakingthered.com/
I'm still really unclear on how AM works
About the only thing that’s clear to me about it is that it can be used to turn a DP-contract into a non-DP one by making up the difference between a DPcontract and a league maximum salary. What else can it do? Can you use it to pay down the new DP’s contract all the way down to league minimum, ameliorating their cap hit? Can you use it to pay don anexisting player’s salary, getting their cap hit down to the league minimum? Can you use itto pay for a new player’s contract, completely getting rid of their cap hit?
Yes
AM can be used to buy down any player salaries and transfer fees. In practice it is used to buy down individual salaries up to the league minimum. Rather than buying one player down to zero it would be spread across a few salaries to bring them all down, but the net impact is the same. I also think that it could be used as a hedge against player injuries. A team could hold some AM in reserve at the start of a season so that if a player goes down for the season, the team could find a reasonable replacement.
a trade might be
Trading our first round and 2nd round pick and an international spot (but maybe we need them all this year.) That could get us a higher first round pick and maybe some allocation money that we turn around and grab a higher spot. But a top 5 pick is costly.
Also it seems to me that attacking players don’t adapt as quick as defenders and I’d just compare Mwanga to that central defender that San Jose picked up, or Omar Gonzalez, George John etc.
That being said our super potent midfield is going to move to Europe either after this season, but especially in two seasons, so we’ll have to have some good prospects ready to take over those first team duties.
by python6114 on Jan 8, 2012 9:45 AM PST via mobile reply actions
And South america
In the case of Rosales.
by python6114 on Jan 8, 2012 9:46 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
For what it's worth
we are getting an international slot back from Portland. We traded it to them for the 2011 season during last year’s SuperDraft for allocation money.
by Randy Meeker on Jan 8, 2012 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Bundle all of the picks
The Sounders have six draft picks. In the most generous scenario only two of these picks have a snowball’s chance in hell of making the final squad. The picks have more value as trade fodder than as picks to the Sounders. The Sounders also have value in their draft notes. They do extensive scouting that other organizations don’t. Bundling all of their picks and the teams notes on the draft class would be an unorthodox option, but has merit in the unique circumstances of this year.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
