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Seattle Sounders Trade Mike Fucito, Lamar Neagle For Eddie Johnson

CHESTER, PA - OCTOBER 12: Eddie Johnson #9 of the United States gets tripped up by a sliding Mario Yepes #3 of Colombia at PPL Park on October 12, 2010 in Chester, Pennsylvania. The game ended in a 0-0 tie. (Photo by Drew Hallowell/Getty Images)

Fans that have been pining for the Seattle Sounders to make a big move this offseason got their wish on Friday as the team traded Lamar Neagle and Mike Fucito to the Montreal Impact in exchange for former United States international Eddie Johnson. The move comes as a rather massive shock as both Fucito and Neagle were thought to be in the team's longterm plans. Fucito even seemed to have the inside track on the starting forward job alongside Fredy Montero.

"Eddie is a high quality striker who is a very good finisher," said Sounders technical director Chris Henderson, who coached Johnson at Kansas City. "We are very excited to have him join Sounders FC in our quest for another successful season."

Even if it hadn't been fan favorites Fucito and Neagle being traded, the acquisition of Johnson would have been shocking enough. Johnson was once one of the United States' most promising stars, but that was a lifetime ago in soccer terms. He has not scored a professional goal since 2010 when he was on loan to Greek club Aris and has not even played since last April when his contract with Fulham was not renewed.

The Sounders are clearly banking on the 27-year-old regaining his old form. Prior to leaving MLS after the 2007 season, he had scored 41 goals in 127 matches. His final year with the Kansas City Wizards, he had 15 goals and six assists in just 24 matches. He has also scored 12 international goals in 41 appearances with the United States national team, but he's made just one appearance since 2008. As recently as a couple months ago, he was cut by Puebla after just a couple days in training camp.

Johnson will surely have a mountain to climb in the eyes of fans. Not only were Fucito and Neagle among the team's most popular players, but they were also relatively young, cheap and productive. Fucito, 25, is coming off a year in which he scored six goals and had three assists in less than 1,600 all-competition minutes. Neagle, 24, scored seven goals and had two assists in just a tick over 1,700 all-competition minutes.

"It's always difficult to part ways with two quality individuals who have contributed greatly to the success of our first three years," said Sounders FC head coach Sigi Schmid. "We saw this as a unique opportunity to bring a player in with World Cup and international experience who can help us in our quest to win the MLS Cup."

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I would say mediocre and likely overpaid, but that's just me

I’m hoping to be proven very wrong in a couple weeks.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

he’s too far out of shape to be playing that soon. Zakuani might even be ahead of EJ in terms of fitness, probably is.

by Aasenb on Feb 17, 2012 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

You're absolutely right

And it makes me a sad panda. :’(

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

Silver lining?

Opens up another roster spot to take someone on the bubble.

Trying to find something…

by bmvaughn on Feb 17, 2012 4:17 PM PST reply actions  

Shocked. Absolutely.

by Corren on Feb 17, 2012 4:20 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

This is almost a Bill Bavasi-esque move.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE SOUNDERS’ FRONT OFFICE, BILL?!?! Shakes fist

by Coach Owens on Feb 17, 2012 4:20 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

You're giving Bavasi too much credit

He would have traded Montero, Neagle, Fucito and a draft pick for someone with an injury history.

by arbeck77 on Feb 17, 2012 7:20 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Wait until it's our Eddie Johnson..

.. vs Portland’s Eddie Johnson.

by bmvaughn on Feb 17, 2012 4:20 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

No allocation money or any exchanging of funds either?

I could see if this (but would still hate it) allowed us to sign a really solid third dp or another solid player, but eddie johnson?

How is this a thing? Our FO has been always been so sensible.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

I actually like the idea of Eddie Johnson

If we were sitting at 5th or 6th in the allocation and it would cost a supplemental draft pick and some cash. This is actually absurd. Im just dumbfounded

by ClosetCoug on Feb 17, 2012 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

Montreal have to over the moon right now.

Right now it looks like they just traded a second tier USMNT player for two building blocks for the future. Sure hope Chris and Sigi know something everyone else doesn’t.

by moyerLIVES on Feb 17, 2012 4:23 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Why Seattle, why??

I don’t care if EJ is good or not, you can’t just trade Fucito AND Neagle!!

by Rodey on Feb 17, 2012 4:23 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

What the actual fuck.

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Feb 17, 2012 4:23 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

How long has it been since EJ saw the field in a meaningful game?

Did we just pick up a player whose salary is worth more than fucito/neagle combined ( I know, not very hard to do).

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 4:24 PM PST reply actions  

Mobile super-rec

Nos audietis in somniis
Nos audietis in altum

by Seattle Coug on Feb 18, 2012 12:40 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Good Luck Mike and Lamar

That’s some crazy news to hit at 4pm on a Friday. I hope it works out for all 3 players involved.

Fan of: Cardinals, Blues, Sounders, Yellow Jackets, Wolverines, Rams, and Blazers.

by ColinMacLeod on Feb 17, 2012 4:26 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

I would say 100K ...

is not inflated at all….actually a pretty good deal. I have no problem with that aspect of this at all. I think at $100k, EJ is a good gamble with a huge upside. However Fucito AND Neagle is a very steep price just to move up to the top of the allocation order.

by exSlacker on Feb 17, 2012 6:24 PM PST up reply actions  

this wasnt your point, but....

We didn’t actually move in the allocation order, correct? Montreal had to use their top spot to get EJ, so they drop to the bottom?

by GnomeJake on Feb 17, 2012 6:31 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Correct

although we’re not in much better of a position – 14th? somewhere around there.

by foolsgambit on Feb 17, 2012 6:41 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

thanks for the correction...

Montreal signed him and we traded for him…it just happened so quickly it feels like we traded up. Well done by Montreal…2 good young players for an expansion team…but could be well done by us too. Time will tell.

by exSlacker on Feb 17, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions  

And a bag of balls isn't a clubhouse cancer...

…as EJ was reputed to be during his earlier stint with MLS.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 1:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Sivebaek

Sigi must think pretty highly of Sivebaek to trade Lamar away. I would have thought Neagle would be a starter for years to come.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 4:27 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

they must think sivebaek will be all they hope he can be

i’d love to say in few months this will look like genius, but trading away two young guys who can put the ball in the net (on a team that led the league in GS) for a guy who has this many question marks… just odd.

by jayw913 on Feb 17, 2012 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Looks like Sivebaek is now backing up both wing positions.

Unless you think Cato or Estrada are ready for the big time.

by moyerLIVES on Feb 17, 2012 4:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Estrada is going to play a role this year.

If something were to happen to a Cm and Flaco makes the move to the middle, then it’s Estrada coming in for both wing positions. I know he’s been looking really good this preseason, but man does that make me uncomfortable.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see it

We are building an intelligent, creative midfield. Tetteh’s development is a long way from fitting in. I agree with Daniel…we may be seeing more Estrada.

by PeterJH on Feb 17, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I had heard rumors about moving Burch

forward to the wing as well. Does anyone who’s watched practices know anything about this?

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 17, 2012 6:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know anything, but it makes sense

Burch swings in a really good cross and is much better going forward than defending for a fullback. Still, I think we need him more at LB than LM.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

where have you heard this?

Not saying you’re wrong, but I’ve never heard rumblings of that.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 17, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions  

It was maybe just a twitter rumor

but I thought I remember having heard it somewhere. It was either twitter, or this site, because those are my sources for info.

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 17, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

WTF?!

Stupid, stupid effing move. I need a drink.

@Emerald_Sounder

by Disco_Stew on Feb 17, 2012 4:29 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

$100k for EJ

Fucito + Neagle had to be higher, right? So that must open up a little breathing room.

by bmvaughn on Feb 17, 2012 4:29 PM PST reply actions  

Hmm...

Well, in that case, I stand by my previous comment that it still opens up a roster spot for the bubble.

by bmvaughn on Feb 17, 2012 4:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Even if it's a salary wash, it's terrible.

If they were trying to clear salary to make room for a bigger signing, maybe.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

No it isn't.

This year’s salary of Neagle+Fucito compared to this year’s salary of Johnson is a valid comparison.

Last year is meaningless unless MLS has even screwier salary cap rules than I thought.

by Matthew on Feb 17, 2012 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

We know their salaries from last season.

The best we can do in terms of knowing their salaries this season is guess. My guess is that they are not making significantly more than $25k between them.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 17, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Best guess:

Both were in line to be paid around the minimum, which is $45k. They had no negotiating power. EJ is at about $100k. At best, it’s a salary wash. At worst, they are worse off because at the minimum, they don’t necessarily hit salary cap.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 17, 2012 4:52 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Glad to see you're still posting.

Doing ok?

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Look at it this way...

…the Sounders’ front office just filled the key Jaqua/Noonan hole.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:14 PM PST up reply actions  

It's risky

Too early to judge, for me. FO clearly is banking on this being the year.

I’d like to know where Johnson is in his conditioning. 2.5 weeks to Mar 7…

by PeterJH on Feb 17, 2012 4:35 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Ochoa will be our starter

It’s got to be Ochoa in CCL. Not sure who we’ll see in the league games the first two weeks, though. Estrada, with Johnson coming on late?

by foolsgambit on Feb 17, 2012 4:51 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

My wife is crushed

and I too am speechless. I am trying to understand the logic behind he decision, but it’s simply not appearing…..

by Mugen Power on Feb 17, 2012 4:36 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Where'd the trust go?

It doesn’t look like a great deal but that may be because I’m a homer — I like Fucito and Neagle — and Johnson seems historically to be a not-great bet. But this certainly does shake things up some more, and I believe Chris and Sigi et al. know what they’re doing and are making an educated call based on a lot more info than I have. I’m willing to roll with it.

Good luck to Lamar and Mike.

by CityDrew on Feb 17, 2012 4:38 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

It doesn't look like a great deal

because it isn’t. I’d rather have traded for Ching and gotten one or two stellar years out of a real target man.

by swansuite on Feb 17, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm sad two young players that I like were traded for a player that I am unfamiliar with in terms of ability.

That being said, I do hope the front office knows what they’re doing. They’ve made a lot more right calls than wrong ones.

by quacker27 on Feb 17, 2012 6:29 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This is actually how I feel

I’m withholding judgement for a few matches.

by bmvaughn on Feb 18, 2012 8:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Sounders brain trust is holding a media conference call this evening

So I’m going to try and be a bit professional before I post my emotional response later.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 17, 2012 4:38 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Good luck.

I think the only question I could possibly ask is “WTF are you smoking?”

by Marcus A on Feb 17, 2012 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't think it has anything to do with it

but signs were already pointing heavily against him

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 17, 2012 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

It feels like we lost a bit of our heart with someone from Fed Way and the Church closing. They represented a lot of what made the Sounders so great.

We’ve seen others leave in the last few years, but this by far is the hardest.

by Mugen Power on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

hmm

i’m kinda confused a the moment. Whey neagle and fucito for EJ?

by gstommylee on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST reply actions  

This is seriously questionable

Fucito and Neagle were 2 solid goal scorers, perfect to develop. That’s 2 players to help deal with the congestion of Open Cup and CCL. That’s 2 players who, combined, had enough goals (in all competitions) to be close to the running for last season’s golden boot. All traded away for one questionable player…

by Adnan Ilyas on Feb 17, 2012 4:40 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I dont even know

what to say right now. Well, so much for taking a break from drinking for a couple days…..

by DanDemolition on Feb 17, 2012 4:41 PM PST reply actions  

I am stunned and not in a good way. Appalled. What the heck is going on with our FO?!?

Let me tell you about Eddie Johnson. The man is a waste of air. A complete disappointment to everyone who has ever come into contact with him. He has squandered a career going from club to club (with the help of his agent, who has given up on him twice in the last five years) destroying whatever whisper of exceptional talent the man may have had at one time. The latest was his reporting, not just out of shape, but according to management at Puebla, the worst shape any athlete has ever reported in to their club. His career has been one long downward spiral.

We traded Fucito, who may or may not have become the player we all hoped he would and Lamar Neagle, who had future MLS star written all over him.

This smacks of desperation and utter stupidity and the fact that my beloved Sounders have pulled this is a knife in the back (and I’m NOT a church of Fucito guy!). It tells me that they have NOTHING in camp right now that they believe in and are unwilling to go out and spend the money it takes to bring a first-class (at least MLS-wise) forward in.

Don’t talk to me, Sounders…. right now, I hate you and you’re an embarrassment.

by swansuite on Feb 17, 2012 4:42 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Because he didn't take a physical

he took a physical “fitness” test. Sheesh!

by swansuite on Feb 17, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

dude....

he didn’t take any sort of fitness test OR Dr.‘s physical. I think you knew what I was saying. We’re on the same team here…cut me some slack.

by exSlacker on Feb 17, 2012 7:08 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

did we get anything else in return

by alexyepz on Feb 17, 2012 4:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

This feels like a RBNY move to me right now.

Really hope I’m wrong. I hope there’s some reason to believe that EJ will work well with Montero.

by moyerLIVES on Feb 17, 2012 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

I feel worse now than after the loss at RSL in the playoffs...

I think I’d be ok with trading both of these guys…but not for EJ.

by Marcus A on Feb 17, 2012 4:49 PM PST reply actions  

Neagle

probably wouldn’t have seen much time this year. Once Zak is healthy again, he’d be buried on the depth chart. So I’m glad he’s going somewhere he’ll see the field (I assume).
Fucito, well, we all know his performance hasn’t quite been as good as we fans wish. But EJ’s going to have to show more heart than he’s been known for lately if he’s going to fill the hole Mike leaves, no matter how many goals he scores.

by foolsgambit on Feb 17, 2012 4:57 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

There's a pretty solid chance Zak won't get healthy and fit enough to go 90 minutes this season.

Right now Christian Sivebaek is the only player to back up both wings that we can reasonably assume will be an above average MLS player.

by moyerLIVES on Feb 17, 2012 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

come on man

I was trying to stay positive here. Now I’m going to be happy just to try staying sober….

by foolsgambit on Feb 17, 2012 5:04 PM PST via Android app up reply actions   1 recs

Good points.

You are right, with Zak back, his time would be limited. I think it’s all gonna work out, once the season starts.

by Mugen Power on Feb 17, 2012 5:01 PM PST up reply actions  

What do you expect from EJ?

Fucito and Neagle had a combined 13 goals across all competitions. For this to pan out, he’s got to product near All-Star numbers right? He’s got to be that second forward we’ve spent the last couple of year looking for right?

This feels like Portland with Kenny Cooper. He left the league to go on to better things only to realize he wasn’t good enough. So he came back and the league had improved substantially. Hopefully Eddie is everything the FO hopes he can be.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 4:50 PM PST reply actions  

If things go well, he could score 15 goals in MLS.

I do not expect things to go well, but there is legitimate upside potential.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 17, 2012 4:51 PM PST up reply actions  

That's the grind for me.

There are few different (very rosy) scenarios in which this becomes an even trade from our point of view. There are far more scenarios (based on the history of all the players involved) where this trade is just total shit for us.

by moyerLIVES on Feb 17, 2012 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, it's not really fair to compare 2 people's goal production to one person's

Since the one person only takes up one spot in your roster of 11. Give me one guy that scores 10 goals than 2 guys who score 13 goals combined.

by Tohoya on Feb 17, 2012 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

This is his career high

In 7 MLS seasons. In 11 pro seasons, he has scored double digits twice. He hasn’t done it in 4 years. If he scores 15 goals, Sigi and Adrian got lucky. If he scores 7-8, maybe we can say they knew something others didn’t. There’s no reason to believe Eddie Johnson is capable of scoring 15 goals.

SB Nation's World Soccer Editor, manager of Cartilage Free Captain, contributor to Acme Packing Company.

by Kevin McCauley on Feb 17, 2012 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually

Kenny is a far superior player to EJ.

by swansuite on Feb 17, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

your posts have made me laugh

Twice I have laughed and you have brought a smile to my face. Thanks

by Tstuar on Feb 18, 2012 8:33 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Not really how 2-for-1s work

You’d need to add up EJ and whoever was in the lineup because Neagle is out. . probably Cato, Sivabaek or maybe Tetteh down the road

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Feb 17, 2012 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, I didn't mean he had to match those numbers.

Only I hope he can produce at a high rate, like one of the leagues elite strikers might.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

As upset as I am

Perhaps the FO saw something in EJ that we passive observers are unaware of. I know it’s hard right now, but the FO has done well for us over the last 3 years in the MLS, and although this is a massive hit, perhaps a Montero/EJ front line will be great for us. Sivabaek may play well enough, as well as Estrada, where we don’t think of Lamar anymore……

by Mugen Power on Feb 17, 2012 4:51 PM PST reply actions  

Pass that over this way

I need something to settle me down, too!

by swansuite on Feb 17, 2012 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

we have to hope so.

Still, despite the frustrations, offense wasn’t an issue last year. The Galaxy, meanwhile, gave up 28 goals all year. Why over-tinker up front?

There was a need to clear room at MF, but for a guy with a lot of question marks in return?

by jayw913 on Feb 17, 2012 4:57 PM PST up reply actions  

On the other hand

Neagle and Fucito weren’t really doing anything to shore up the defense either

Nos Audietis

by sidereal on Feb 17, 2012 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

i just mean if you're going to trade quality players, trade for where the need is

I don’t see increasing scoring as a need. Timely scoring? Sure. But that seemed like it was already being addressed through guys getting healthy and guys like Sivebaek. That can work out.

I would have loved hearing about a trade involving these two for some sort of trained killer on defense. Would have hated to see them go, but gotta trade something to get something.

Not sure right now if we did the latter this time.

by jayw913 on Feb 17, 2012 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

We quite possibly just freed up a roster space for a defender

There’s way more to this than would meet the eye.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

EJ has been at IMG

So at least the FO is making gambles based on better info than we have. Hoping they truly do know something we don’t.

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Feb 17, 2012 5:00 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Halfway through my coffee

will be switching to bourbon soon.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Why wait?

Bourbon that coffee up. Although, you posted an hour and a half ago, so this was probably unwarranted advice.

by quacker27 on Feb 17, 2012 6:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Woahhhhhhhhhhh.....

Man, that’s a crazy ass backwards headline to come see first thing…..My guess is that our Danish friend is better than we all dared hope….That’s the only thing that makes this deal make any sense…..In FO I trust.

by Sounders4life on Feb 17, 2012 4:56 PM PST reply actions  

I believe this is probably true

Sigi’s quote along the lines of “is this a guy we need to find a spot on the field for” and that is probably what this trade was. Who knows I expect to see some explanations fast, because I know the front office knows that they have some explaining to do.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

The thing that gets me though is that I would've been okay with either of these trades 1 for 1

Sad still, but okay. It’s the 2 for 1 bit that I don’t understand…if they had to make the salaries work, why not throw in Scott or someone? Oh well though, let’s go EJ, please don’t turn into Zombie Jaqua 2.0, as that would be terrifying in more ways than one.

by Sounders4life on Feb 17, 2012 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Absolutely the wrong move.

Trading two younger players with promise for an older player, past his prime, who is out of condition, and hasn’t been a goal scoring machine for 5+ years. Absolutely wrong.

by Sin on Sundayz on Feb 17, 2012 4:56 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Wowzers

damn, well that’s the life of sports. I guess they see Johnson as the number 2 forward. They might have also thought that Neagle was going to end up number 3 on our roster at left mid, so maybe that was kind of a playing time decision for him, I have no doubt he’ll start in Montreal, along with Fucito.

Other then that those are two guys that I really liked and had the chance to play pool with Lamar during an American Scores event at Temple Billiards the week after he banged 3 goals against Columbus. Also had the chance to meet Fucito’s parents at the away trip in New England, the bright side is he is closer to home.

I’m going to take the optimistic wait and see approach, but damn, Eddie you have some fan favorites to replace.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 4:57 PM PST reply actions  

I don't know if this has been said

But a part of me (the part that enjoys black humor) wants to lay this at the feet of the people that complained about signing another striker. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW!?!

My girlfriend spent a lot of money on a Fucito jersey. Now how am I gonna get her to watch?

The Seattle Sounders are just reDQulous

by Nathan Dye on Feb 17, 2012 4:58 PM PST reply actions  

I bought my wife

A Fucito jersey….she is now thinking about rooting for the Impact….

by Mugen Power on Feb 17, 2012 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

funny

My wife said the sounders got rid of every one she cares about. And wants to move to Canada.

by Calin David on Feb 17, 2012 11:18 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

What's the record for most comments

on a story in a 24 hour period because we might have a winner. And now the cell is ringing full of my Sounders friends needing me to explain why they shouldn’t drink away the night, any suggestions…..

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:01 PM PST reply actions  

Okay....here are the upsides

1. No one can deny that Eddie Johnson is very physically gifted much like OBW (tall, fast & powerful)
2. He has proven that he can be a league leading goal scorer in MLS
3. He’s still in the prime of his career.
4. Sigi is good at getting the best out of younger players (unlike say Peter Nowak)
5. It frees an extra roster spot for another younger player

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Point by point:

1) Fair.
2) He has proven that once, nearly six years ago, and has been terrible since.
3) 27 is very close to end-of-prime.
4) 27 isn’t young.
5) Fair.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 17, 2012 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Very good refutation

I’m just trying to give the guy some good arguments! ;-)

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 5:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Musings

1. The front office must have believed the Fucito + Montero pairing wasn’t an answer. Given that they’ve scored no goals so far this pre-season, maybe they have a point.

2. Sivebaek is a faster, taller, and more skilled player than Neagle. With Zakuani returning to form this move frees up some serious congestion on the wing.

3. We’ve been hearing all pre-season that Estrada has impressed as a forward. Apparently so, apparently so.

4. EJ is 27. Not 35. Yes he flamed out in Europe, but no reason to believe a change in scenery won’t result in a return or improvement in previous form.

5. OBW is done.

Gonna take a bit to let this one sink in. Really hope EJ comes into camp in shape and ready to make a statement, if not… yikes.

by benihana on Feb 17, 2012 5:01 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Number 5 also makes me sad

Despite all the physical talent in the world the stars never seemed to align for OBW.. However, with that said, at least EJ has some of the same attributes that made OBW so fun to watch early last year. He’s tall and fast. Now we’ll see if he can bring the professional attitude with him.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

"we’ll see if he can bring the professional attitude with him"

That’s the big question, isn’t it?

We got something good going on in our locker room now. This is where I see the most risk with this trade.

by PeterJH on Feb 17, 2012 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

The big difference...

…is that OBW was a young player on the rise…we could only imagine what his upside might have become. With EJ, I think it’s safe to say “what you see is what you get.”

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Is there any chance that Johnson has gotten in shape?

Since he washed out at Puebla?

The Seattle Sounders are just reDQulous

by Nathan Dye on Feb 17, 2012 5:02 PM PST reply actions  

Could he possibly be in worse shape?

So he’s improved at least. Right?

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Feb 17, 2012 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

This is the thing that pisses me off

We are trading away two CCL match quality players for a guy who couldn’t even make it through training camp a few months ago. WTF?

Unofficial Sounder Fan Club President - New Mexico Division

by Brian23 on Feb 17, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know Eddie Johnson's career outside of USMNT that well

But just looking at his transaction history, he seems exactly like the type of player that could truly benefit from great support. The constant movement and shifting career fortunes must have been disappointing to someone that once looked like an emerging star. Not saying any of his lack of conditioning or motivation is anyone’s fault but his own. But Seattle would seem to be an ideal situation for a career renaissance.

by lemonverbena on Feb 17, 2012 5:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

This is true..

…Doyle continued to be plagued with injuries as I recall.

Follow me on twitter@PrixFixeOnline
Editor/Writer for Managing Madrid & Writer for Sounder At Heart

by Timm Higgins on Feb 17, 2012 6:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Remember the Langston-Johnson trade. Maybe this is payback for that?

שלום

by King Elessar on Feb 17, 2012 10:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm going to go cry in my beer and hug my dog

So thanks for that. But I agree…f’ing French Canadians.

@Emerald_Sounder

by Disco_Stew on Feb 17, 2012 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

maybe there was a language barrier, and we said oui when we meant non :/

by Aasenb on Feb 17, 2012 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

So nin short we shipped off our fullbacks who we agreed were the weakness of our back line

Got rid of a winger on our super-stacked midfield and then traded a promising but so far disappointing striker for a proven but aging striker? Not horrible. We still have Montero, Flaco, Rosales, Honey Badger, Zakuani, and Gspurning. I’m not complaining.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 8:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Fucito had two MLS goals

He’s promising but at the end of the day his production wasn’t where a lot of us would’ve liked it to be.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll give back the US Open Cup trophies

because clearly only MLS regular season performance matters.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 17, 2012 8:54 PM PST up reply actions  

don't forget...

to withdraw from ccl.

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 9:04 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

His two goals in USOC were against KITSAP!!!

I know that he’s done well in CCL so that’ll be your next comment, but his two goals in 2011-2012 CCL were both against Communicaciones in a home game, and two of his three in 2010-2011 CCL were in a home game after the Sounders had lost four straight in group play and were effectively eliminated.

Fucito had promise, we all know that, but he was always more of a second striker than a first, and Montero has that spot under lock and key.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

I think there is a lot of emotional attachment here for these guys

Nobody expected Neagle to get time after Zakuani came back, and nobody really knew who was gonna pair up with Montero, whether it was Fucito, Ochoa, OBW, or whoever. But it was comfortable knowing they would be there waiting in the wings, or could be used in secondary games. But now that they’ve been ripped away…it hurts

by chrisperry1983 on Feb 17, 2012 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Pissed off...

…the best implications of the move are that Sivebaek, Estrada and Cato (or even Tetteh…) offer the Sounders enough confidence in their wing depth to make the deal. The worst implication is that they feel that Eddie Johnson can be relied upon to produce more than Neagle and Fucito could if they were simply devoted to the same role on the team…. and there isn’t a whole lot of evidence for that being the case.

MERDE!.

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 5:08 PM PST reply actions  

leaving Sounders for Galaxy...

i loved the Sounders for the 2009, 2010, 2011 seasons… but for 2012, i decided to follow Galaxy. key reason is, Sounders owners/management are not able and willing to spend the big $$$ to bring in international superstars ala Robbie Keane, Thiery Henry and of course Beckham. all they have been doing is spend a few thousand dollars here and there to bring in falling stars or failed stars, hoping they would turn good. with this management philosophy, Sounders will NEVER win the MLS Cup. if your goal is to have a team truly winning the MLS Cup, go with Galaxy or may be Red Bulls. Sounders is a good team but definitely not an elite team worthy of MLS Cup.

by ja on Feb 17, 2012 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

See I was a Pirates fan since 1983, but then the Yankees won a lot and suddenly I realized I was actually a huge Yankees fan! Yay!

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 5:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Wha....

Isn’t this what you’d want then, two lower named players traded for a guy still not in his prime that was playing at Fullham, but injuries slowed down his career?

Honestly the trade is shocking but our F.O likes to get huge upside players that have had injury set backs then nurse them to health and they dominate.

But whatevers.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

You'll be perfect for the Galaxy

We don’t want you. Tell Beckham we said hi.

by Fnarf on Feb 17, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Epic troll.

Or just a fool, not sure.

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Feb 17, 2012 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

In Seattle the Team is the Star

not the individual players, necessarily.

by expatB on Feb 17, 2012 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

You pick your teams on who spends money?

You will have a horrible existence, my friend. You will never know joy from sports.

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 17, 2012 8:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Look how well that money paid off for the Redbulls

And the Galaxy have just recently started cashing in on their ridiculously overpaid players. Money is not the way to win the MLS, brains are. Enjoy your overpaid new team.

by Derek R on Feb 18, 2012 4:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I can almost see Fucito...

…much like LeToux, I don’t think he was going to break out here, and will actually be better off moving.

I can’t understand Neagle though. Seems to really cut the threats we can have off the bench.

by mrbs on Feb 17, 2012 5:12 PM PST reply actions  

Locals

Now that we’ve lost Keller and Neagle, we’re out of local boys. And will we never sign a HGP? I prefer having players with ties to the region, and now we have none.

by foolsgambit on Feb 17, 2012 7:01 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Yes!

I’ve heard so much about Deandre Yedlin that I’m really looking forward to that day.

by Derek R on Feb 18, 2012 4:02 AM PST up reply actions  

RSL cut two HGPs this week

so did Red Bull

I’d rather wait until they are actually ready than sign them and cut them in a year.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 17, 2012 8:37 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Agreed.

That’s why I would have liked to have kept Neagle until our HGPs were ready for the league. Is one local out of 30 top much top ask? Apparently.

by foolsgambit on Feb 17, 2012 11:55 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

I'll join the minority

Look, I love Fucito and Neagle. Great work ethic, great character, easy to root for, all those things you want on your team. But Neagle was going to struggle to earn time in a crowded mid field and Fucito was not going to be the answer as a 2nd striker with Montero. 2 league goals in 19 appearances last season. Maybe he breaks out next year, maybe not. Maybe he would’ve been in rotation with Ochoa or something, but I didn’t see him as the answer. Montero couldn’t play as a lone striker. Something had to be done. This is probably the best we could have hoped for. Did EJ suck in Europe? Obviously. He wasn’t the first American to try it and fail, he won’t be the last. Does that mean he’s forgotten how to play the game and can’t be a solid contributor given the chance? We’ll see…

The alternative is we throw out the same attack core that’s gotten us booted in the first round of the playoffs. And sure, the worst case scenario is that this move bombs and we miss the playoffs altogether, but I don’t see that happening. And even if it does, I really don’t think it will be because of this deal… Let’s wait and see where we are come July before we jump off the bridge and hang the FO on our way down.

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 5:12 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Alternatively, we could have traded Neagle and Fucito for something approximating what they're actually worth

We turns two cheap, average young players into a lottery ticket. There is almost no way that Eddie Johnson was the best return the Sounders could command for those two.

by Graham MacAree on Feb 17, 2012 5:15 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

That assumes someone else was willing to part with one of their first XI strikers. Did we shop around? We’ll probably never know. I just think that the potential of EJ finding his game that he’s shown before and being a solid contributor up top outweighs the potential that Fucito finds a level of his game that he hasn’t shown and breaks out.

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 5:18 PM PST up reply actions  

"Did we shop around? We’ll probably never know. "

Either way it looks terrible. If that’s the best return you get on your youth, keep your damn youth.

by MT Olson on Feb 17, 2012 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

More terrible then being a good us open cup team with depth but not having enough top line scoring talent to avoid being knocked out in the first round again?

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 6:23 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Not now.

The core is here now, and it won’t be forever. One of the major pieces probably moves overseas next offseason. What we have is elite, but not as good as LAG and didn’t make the cut last year. If the Sounders want to hoist major silverware, they’re going to have to sacrifice some future potential for returns in the here and now.

by Tohoya on Feb 18, 2012 12:12 AM PST up reply actions  

my feelings exactly

as much as i hate to admit it, i think neagle dropped down the depth chart and wanted to play. fucito was a borderline starter so i think that’s an ok swap. two problems: seems like we could have done better for what we gave up (and their small contracts) and the fans love these two guys. and it seems everyone who has heard of eddie johnson is either lukewarm/dislikes him

by connorb3 on Feb 17, 2012 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Huh?

First of all, don’t talk about it, second of all, what?

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Feb 18, 2012 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Gutted.

disappointing to say the least. I don’t see it as a major upgrade on the field and we’re losing two fan favorites. this is going to be a big ask to gain my trust back. the new signings have a lot to live up to

by connorb3 on Feb 17, 2012 5:12 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Herculez Gomez just posted...
Stoked for my boy Eddie Johnson.. Seattle just got stronger. CCL should be fun. All the best to him and the Sounders. #InTheRegularSeason

by bmvaughn on Feb 17, 2012 5:13 PM PST reply actions  

it's the z

not to mention he plays for… santos laguna

by connorb3 on Feb 17, 2012 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Booo. He better be good because that was a premium we traded for him.

Boo! Tomorrow AM. I want all things now!

by Perrinbar on Feb 17, 2012 5:15 PM PST reply actions  

Well lets listen to Chris explain this

But after the shock of losing some of our favorites is over this might be all right.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:21 PM PST reply actions  

EJ needs to refrain from being anywhere near

Twitter, here, or anywhere else fans will be speaking for the next 36 hours or so.

"But who would listen to Little Old Me anyway?"
-by -Dave Clark
and -thehemogoblin

by Little old me on Feb 17, 2012 5:22 PM PST reply actions  

Hopefully fans aren't

stupid and take out their anger on the player they traded for, that’s the kind of stupid fandom that can ruin a trade.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:35 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

True, but an evening of wailing and gnashing of teeth is probably in order

The Sounders did just trade away a fan favorite and a local boy done good. I’m sure everyone will be cheering for EJ once the shock wears off.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, once he puts the ball in the back of the net...

…which, judging by his track record, will be sometime around August…

…of 2015…

…while training the kids on the local Junior Kickers team.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Not as bad as it sounds

Still wouldn’t have done it, but EJ only 100K. If he was taking up 250K I’d be irate.

Sucks to see neagle and Fucito go, but at the end of the day neither of them were going to start this season. The coaches have been watching them train for a month now, and came to that decision.

We’re rolling the dice on EJ, but I have a feeling Ochoa will start. Plus at only 100k, Sounders can still potentially pull the trigger on a top quality striker in July.

by TheNatrix on Feb 17, 2012 5:23 PM PST reply actions  

If the point is to pull the trigger on a top striker

You trade Fucito and Neagle to someone for allocation money, not Eddie Johnson.

SB Nation's World Soccer Editor, manager of Cartilage Free Captain, contributor to Acme Packing Company.

by Kevin McCauley on Feb 17, 2012 5:24 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Adrian Hanauer

just broke me and my girlfriends hearts. Neagle was our favorite player. It just seems like EJ is going to have to be amazing for us to not hate him. I just bought her a Neagle jersey too.

by mikebelle on Feb 17, 2012 5:23 PM PST reply actions  

Maybe

There’s another trade that we just don’t know about yet? Johnson to Vancouver for Le Toux? Please?

by Kohflot on Feb 17, 2012 5:25 PM PST reply actions  

EJ will be on KJR at 6pm

Don’t know if this has been mentioned yet

by Stevo206 on Feb 17, 2012 5:26 PM PST reply actions  

question for people

is there anyone else in MLS you think we could have gotten that you would have preferred? Honestly makes me wonder why we didn’t go after Le Toux when he was available if we were considering a move like this but maybe his salary was too much

by connorb3 on Feb 17, 2012 5:26 PM PST reply actions  

Honestly, Le Toux wouldn't have worked

We already know he plays best as the 2nd striker and that position is filled. The only other teams that have players I would have wanted would be NYRBs and Sporting KC. Clearly Juan Aguedelo is not going to get time at New York, but I don’t think we could have pried him away from the Red Bulls. Perhaps either CJ Sapong or Teal Bunbury from Sporting KC. Still, I’m not sure they would have been better than Eddie Johnson.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 5:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Assorted Quotes from Chris

“one of the purest finishers this country has produced”
“lethal attack” in comination with Montero
“had success in the MLS before he left overseas”
“[he] feels that coming to Seattle that he can prove himself [and rejoin the USMNT]”
“Eddie at the price he was coming back in was well worth the value”
“he fits in the style of a possession based team that’s always attacking”
“you feel like you’re losing part of your family” (in reference to Mike and Lamar)
“these are things you have to do to bring in a player like Eddie Johnson”

Fan of: Cardinals, Blues, Sounders, Yellow Jackets, Wolverines, Rams, and Blazers.

by ColinMacLeod on Feb 17, 2012 5:28 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

So if this

is what we have to do to get a player like EJ, what do we have to do to get someone people actually want?

by mikebelle on Feb 17, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Just to play devil's advocate...

But would you have them take a poll of fans?

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 17, 2012 6:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know

dude, I’m upset and not making any sense.

by mikebelle on Feb 17, 2012 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know dude,

I’m upset and not making sense.

by mikebelle on Feb 17, 2012 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I think if you take out what the two guys we lost have meant to this team and community in general, it makes sense. Is it a risk? Sure. Maybe EJ doesn’t find his form again and Montero never generate chemistry and we average 0.67 goals a game or something. I don’t see it happening but it’s possible. Is it more possible that he takes the second chance given to him to play in front of 36k who won’t let him fail, because if he does Lord knows they’ll let him know, and becomes that strike partner Fredy’s needed for a couple years now?

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions  

"one of the purest finishers this country has produced"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OH MY GOD I’M DYING

SB Nation's World Soccer Editor, manager of Cartilage Free Captain, contributor to Acme Packing Company.

by Kevin McCauley on Feb 17, 2012 5:34 PM PST up reply actions  

omg and "he fits in the style of a possession based team"

STOP. STOP. I’M LAUGHING SO HARD I’M CRYNIG. STOP.

SB Nation's World Soccer Editor, manager of Cartilage Free Captain, contributor to Acme Packing Company.

by Kevin McCauley on Feb 17, 2012 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

To paraphrase his comments on EJ's time in Europe

Players are expected to produce. With his limited playing time as a sub, he did not produce, so his chances were taken away.

Fan of: Cardinals, Blues, Sounders, Yellow Jackets, Wolverines, Rams, and Blazers.

by ColinMacLeod on Feb 17, 2012 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

What the, what the, what the, what

I’m having trouble forming a complete thought here. I’m probably less of a Fucito booster than most people here, but he has value, and Neagle has looked great in spots, so I’m struggling to see how Eddie Johnson comes into the picture.

Eddie Johnson is OLD MLS to my mind, not new. We are new MLS. We need more new ideas, not old ones. I know he’s “only” 27, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but….

OK, I have no idea how I’m feeling right now. I guess…I’m an Eddie Johnson fan. This is going to take a while.

by Fnarf on Feb 17, 2012 5:32 PM PST reply actions  

Okay calming down now

Neagle might not have seen much time at Left Mid this year, considering that Fernandez is probably the starter there, then when Zakuani comes back there will probably be a move to make sure that he gets back into shape so all the sub appearances probably would have went to him.

Fucito was probably the forward they were willing to take so that explains that.

I’d hate to hear all these people say that Eddie Johnson is no good and what not. He was injured in Fullham and that didn’t help his chances. Also I remember another Mexican team saying that one of the players cut was out of shape…aka Rosales.

Other then that he crushed MLS, so whose to say he won’t crush MLS again. lets wait and see.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:33 PM PST reply actions  

Thank you

I’m afraid that Neagle and Fucito are rated a bit higher here than they are anywhere else in the league. Both are solid back-up options.

by Stevo206 on Feb 17, 2012 5:36 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

"He was injured in Fullham and that didn’t help his chances."

Which is an excuse for how many months? Four years? Listen, if a 27-year-old hasn’t recovered to a decent level after that amount of time (he couldn’t even score over a season in Britain’s second division, for Fucito’s sake) , stick a fork in him, he’s done.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Also...
Neagle might not have seen much time at Left Mid this year, considering that Fernandez is probably the starter there, then when Zakuani comes back there will probably be a move to make sure that he gets back into shape so all the sub appearances probably would have went to him.

I’d say that’s a lot more of an “if” than a “when”…and, yes, I’m talking about the entire season and beyond.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:40 PM PST up reply actions  

That is the saddest picture I've ever seen

I think I need another beer just to cope with the picture.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I think that's Steak 'n Shake

in which case he’s about to have an awesome sandwich and shake. Not so sad, eh?

by Warsaw28 on Feb 17, 2012 6:03 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

This is making me wonder about the FO

This doesn’t seem like their style. I hope it works out but I have strenous doubts.

by CarlosT on Feb 17, 2012 5:34 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

Fun fact:

The Sounders players that showed up for the ECS end-of-year party were Kasey Keller, James Riley, and Lamar Neagle.

Sounders 'til I die

by SounderJunkie on Feb 17, 2012 5:35 PM PST reply actions  

Looks pretty bizarre.

Formerly known as Vasilii, follow me on twitter @dolgorukii

by Thomas Beekers on Feb 17, 2012 5:36 PM PST reply actions  

Sounds like EJ is fit already.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 5:38 PM PST reply actions  

It's possible

And if he does make a real impact in those two games, I bet a whole lot of people will entirely forget how apprehensive or even ill they feel right now.

by ascholl on Feb 17, 2012 6:40 PM PST up reply actions  

True, he'll make an impact...

His fat, out-of-shape ass is probably going to break the bench down in Mexico.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Did you hear anything Sigi has said about this?

They’ve taken a look at him in-person and are going to use him against Santos Laguna. I’ll trust his opinion over anyone else’s at this point.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 11:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess you're right...

I’ll trust the guy who stuck with Jaqua for the past two years. The third time has got to be the charm!

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Jaqua was on the team, but he didn't play much

Trust a guy that has won two MLS Cups and has had the Sounders in the playoffs three straight years.

by Coug1990 on Feb 18, 2012 8:57 AM PST up reply actions  

I think the 2 for 1 part is the hard part to swallow

I loved what both Fucito and Neagle brought to the team and am sad that they are gone but I have liked what the FO has done so I do have faith that it will turn out Rave Green. Not a great trade but could work out if he is productive for the next 3 years.

by Colin Johnson on Feb 17, 2012 5:38 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Keep Fredy Around?

Could a successful partnership with Montero persuade him to stick around for a few more years before going to Europe?

Fan of: Cardinals, Blues, Sounders, Yellow Jackets, Wolverines, Rams, and Blazers.

by ColinMacLeod on Feb 17, 2012 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I think a few more dollars

might have better influence, but it wouldn’t hurt.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Roster spots!

Now we get to keep someone we were not counting on keeping!

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly, I have my doubts

The guy last had a good season in 2007. That’s an eternity in sports.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 1:15 AM PST up reply actions  

You are just way overvaluing what the Sounders gave up

They are replaceable. Johnson may bust, but it is a good gamble to take because if he hits, this team just got tremendously better and they did it under the constraints of the salary cap.

by Coug1990 on Feb 18, 2012 9:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Huge if

If he busts, the more likely outcome given the past five years, we just gave away two useful guys for nothing.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

EJ is a Sounder

Hate the trade, hate losing two favorites, get it all out. But come March 7, we’ll all be rooting like hell for him to find his pre-European form.

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 5:39 PM PST reply actions  

lol, you know what I meant!

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Honestly putting 2.0 or 3.0 after MLS

doesn’t mean anything, to say he isn’t going to be as good because we throw a 3.0 after MLS just doesn’t hold weight in my opinion.

by python6114 on Feb 17, 2012 5:53 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a reference to the fact that the MLS has changed quite a bit over the years

1.0 is pre-contraction, 2.0 is from contraction to appx 2009 (Sounders join, Toronto has joined, RSL wins, etc.), 3.0 is with the PNW teams, DPs everywhere, etc. I know we’ve done series here on the progression and growth of the league, using these numbers to reference the different iterations of the league.

The fact is that EJ hasn’t been here for awhile. This is a different league than he left. If he hasn’t improved while abroad, he’ll be like the ’11 Cooper all over again.

But then again, he’ll have Fredy and Mauro supporting him (or rather, he’ll be supporting them). He’ll eventually have Zak on the wings to draw defenses. And he’ll have Flaco, Sivebaek, Evans, Alonso et al. as well. So I think he is capable of big things. But he is going to have to adapt to the new reality of MLS 3.0.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

MLS 2.0 means that when EJ last played here

KC’s homefield was either a minor league baseball park or a community/high school multi-use sports field. Things have changed a lot, on and off the field. But also the field itself!

by Sobchak on Feb 17, 2012 7:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed

I don’t mind the venting though. Every single commenter here will embrace Eddie come the 7th.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

All EJ has to do is score a brace

Or even a goal and an assist to Fredy against Santos and the tide will turn. I have no issues with anyone grieving the losses of Meat and Neagle.

by chrisso on Feb 17, 2012 10:31 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions  

True...

…and I’ll also be rooting to win Powerball.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:42 PM PST up reply actions  

This feels like Noonan 2.0

“Hey here’s a player that was okay in MLS a long time ago!”
“Let’s sign him!”

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 1:17 AM PST up reply actions  

The way a teams and fans see thngs are not always the same

Pat Noonan has been so bad that the MLS Champion Galaxy have signed him.

by Coug1990 on Feb 18, 2012 9:02 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Good luck to them with that

It’s not like they haven’t made bad signings before.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Ahem

I would trust Mr. Van Halen with…well, not my life but certainly my guitar.

He’s a Sounder now, it hurts to lose Fucito/Neagle but neither was a critical part of our team last year.

@Emerald_Sounder

by Disco_Stew on Feb 17, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions  

someone mentioned upthread that Rosales fell victim to the same Mexican club claim of "out of shape"

from Mayers’ twitter:

Johnson dismisses reports from Mexico that said he had failed a physical in Puebla. He said he never took a physical.

by Will Kier on Feb 17, 2012 6:00 PM PST reply actions  

EJ prompted trade

didn’t want to be in Montreal.

(on KJR with Gas)

by expatB on Feb 17, 2012 6:06 PM PST reply actions  

"And I've learned a new pitch! A cut fastball!!"

You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. Our yachts are all around you, there is no escape.

by 108Ultra on Feb 17, 2012 7:38 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I just hope he's reviewed the tape and changed his mechanics at the plate.

"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."

by DarthGreedo on Feb 18, 2012 9:50 AM PST up reply actions  

Yea been training at the img academy in Bradenton last two months. Coincidence? Also is explaining the puebla experience. If a 5 minute interview could be reassuring, this is it, lol. Saying all the right things.

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 6:14 PM PST via Android app reply actions   1 recs

Am sure his agent told him

Go where the teams are going for training, start working out, make sure everyone knows how dedicated you are BEFORE the teams even show.

Smart move

by bmvaughn on Feb 18, 2012 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Eddie says:

He’s stronger and faster than he’s ever been. Says his health is good, fitness as well.

As for his Puebla fitness issues:

He didn’t have an agent, Beasley got him an interview with Puebla (he was worried about Mexico and payment). He trained for 3 days, and he showed up three days late (three days after Christmas). Owner went on business trip, wasn’t there to sign off on contract. Puebla calls deal off, Technical Director wanted Mexican player, so he messed deal up when coach was away. Said he never took a physical when he was down there. Says if he had an agent, he would never have had to train without sighing of contract.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 6:14 PM PST reply actions  

Loved the part about not being paid for 6 months in Greece. different worlds.

by kSelvig on Feb 17, 2012 6:17 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Absolutely.

The story makes sense in light of that recent Grant Wahl piece about US players in Mexico and shady dealings. I guess we’ll see his fitness in the days to come and see if it checks out.

His interview contained all the right answers, and explanations. Not getting paid for six months is incredible.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 6:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Never underestimate the little things

Like getting a check on time so you can pay your mortgage.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 6:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Or eat.

You will hear us on Brougham, you will hear us on Occidental, you will hear us on King. Our yachts are all around you, there is no escape.

by 108Ultra on Feb 17, 2012 7:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Here's the worrisome thing...

…that time when he wasn’t getting paid was the only time over the past four years when he actually scored.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Interesting

DMB sold EJ on training with Puebla. Technical director wanted a Mexican striker, Coach wanted EJ, intra- club issue lied about him not being fit.

by Stevo206 on Feb 17, 2012 6:15 PM PST reply actions  

This

Difficult position to take given how much everyone love Fucito/Neagle but I agree. Especially after hearing his interview.

by Stevo206 on Feb 17, 2012 6:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I hope Montero doesn't score a hat trick this year

That seems to be a guarantee we won’t see him on the roster next year.

by foolsgambit on Feb 18, 2012 12:05 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Aquisition sounds very Mauro-esque

If the Sounders can continue to capitalize on the confusion and misinformation coming from a Mexican clubs, we could be in for a great ride.

"It's scintillating, it's sensational, it's Seattle Sounders FC soccer."

by LoiteringWithIntent on Feb 17, 2012 6:27 PM PST reply actions  

So this is presumably opening up another spot on the roster, right?

Then in addition to EJ, the team will be keeping a player they otherwise would not have.

by quacker27 on Feb 17, 2012 6:41 PM PST reply actions  

That's the assumption

There should be one open slot to keep a promising young player. However, spots 29 & 30 can also be left open for allocation dollars. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sounders don’t carry a full 30 into the season for that reason.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

hey guys

I’m from Montreal and an Impact fan but have little knowledge of the MLS and it’s players. What do Neagle and Fucito bring to the table? What are their playing styles and are they good enough to start in the MLS?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Rule #1) If you hate Joe Buck, watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCSZKbyL94

Rule #2) Follow rule #1

by mtl9ers14 on Feb 17, 2012 6:49 PM PST reply actions  

Both are good enough to start in MLS (and did so for the Sounders)

I think you’ll like both players. They’re both extremely hard workers with enough talent and physical ability to make it for the long haul in MLS. Frankly, they’re a bargain at their current salary and the Impact did well to acquire them.

Fucito: Fucito is probably one of the best forwards in MLS not to get regular minutes in league competition due to some unfortunate injuries and a general log-jam at the forward position. He uses a combination of speed, strength and a low center of gravity to get past defenders. He’s best when a ball is played into space behind the defense. He’s absolutely not afraid to mix it up with the biggest and most physical defenders in MLS despite his size. He’s abused both George John and Jamison Olave before in league play.

Neagle: Neagle is a local product that can play both the wide midfield and withdrawn striker positions. He’s quick, but doesn’t have elite speed at the top end. He makes up for it with good ball skills, passing and finishing. He likes to play inverted and cut into from the wing to take a shot like many of the wingers in the Seattle system. He’s very hard to stop when he gets hot (as the Columbus Crew can attest to). He’s also a great guy in the community.

That’s my short take on the two of them. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in either of them. Feel free to re-post this if there is an Impact blog you go to regularly.

by Dizzo on Feb 17, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Both were near starting caliber last year

Both probably are starting caliber this year.

Fucito is a short, powerful and speedy forward that uses his physical and speedy style of play to wear down defenders and get behind them. He is a pretty good finisher who will be even better as he gains awareness of his teammates and defenders at match-speed. He is best at stretching defenses, not so great in the air or at beating defenders with the ball at his feet. He was the presumptive 2nd forward next to Fredy Montero, heading into the season.

Lamar is a wide player who uses his awareness to link well with his teammates and knows how to finish. He’s already had a hat-trick in league play. His defending is decent. He can beat defenders, but it is not his strong suit. He is best when linking up with clever teammates. He is fast, but not the fastest. He can disappear from matches for long stretches of time, but once he finds his way back in he can make a big impact. He was likely the 2nd string left mid heading into the season behind Alvaro Fernandez, but would have been bumped back once Steve Zakuani regained fitness. Lamar can probably start for a number of teams around the league.

Both are incredible individuals off the pitch, and the Montreal community has gained two upstanding young men who will make an impact throughout the city. All Montreal fans should be excited about this trade. I know all Sounders and Sounder fans will miss both Mike and Lamar, not just for their contributions on the pitch.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 7:02 PM PST up reply actions  

What Dizzo and AGTK said times a million:

Whatever you think of the trade, a lot of the reason why this cuts so deep is that I think both Neagle and Fucito personified the type of players you’d want on your team both on and off the pitch.

They will be missed.

by Daniel Guerrero on Feb 17, 2012 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for the input

Really appreciate it

Rule #1) If you hate Joe Buck, watch this www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCSZKbyL94

Rule #2) Follow rule #1

by mtl9ers14 on Feb 17, 2012 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Good luck this year

You will be happy with both Neagle and Fucito. Two players that will contribute right away.

I’m looking forward to watching you guys play. You’ve made some great moves and I’d love to see Montreal knock off the other eastern conference teams.

by TheNatrix on Feb 18, 2012 9:27 AM PST up reply actions  

Did anyone listen to the KJR interview?

It sounds like he’s been working out for about two and half months in California. That’s a positive.

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 17, 2012 6:50 PM PST reply actions  

Yeah,

it makes me feel better that it sounds like he can play right now. I was assuming he was out of shape, and wouldn’t really contribute for at least a couple months. Also, the fact that the staff have gotten a chance to see him play recently makes me think that this will be a good situation overall. Still upset though…

by mikebelle on Feb 17, 2012 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

EJ Value

He could be the best value in MLS at 100k…maybe you think the odds of him scoring double digits in goals is zero…I disagree. I loved and miss Fucito and Neagle, but I dont think their prime will ever be what EJ’s prime was…so now who has the better future ? At this point I hope it is.

by Charles J on Feb 17, 2012 7:30 PM PST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

EJ

At this point I hope it is EJ

by Charles J on Feb 17, 2012 7:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

O'Brien White costs us almost nothing

My fear is that the FO is overvaluing Johnson. He’s shown nothing since 2007, and yet we’ve given up two useful guys to sign him? Taking a risk on a guy like White, where we’re getting him cheap (and from a notorious waster of talent such as TFC) on the hopes we can make something of him is one thing. Paying a significant price for a guy with a bad track record on the hope that he’ll somehow stop sucking? [wince]

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions  

EJ's first Goal for Aris in Greece...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2vVWrYDr4w posted by Cody Croghan on twitter….who is that keeper he nutmegged?……….

wait for it

wait for it

wait for it

Gspurning.

by exSlacker on Feb 17, 2012 7:50 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Do you have it? He scored 5...

in 16 games in Greece…was his one bright spot in Europe. The cloud was not getting reliably paid…oh, Greece.

by exSlacker on Feb 17, 2012 8:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Just the one...the nutmeg....

Gspurning did everything right….it was a good ball to a fast EJ behind the D. G-man cut the angle and got BIG. EJ touched it right at him point blank and it squeaked through his legs. He hustled right after it with the military crawl and almost got a paw on it anyway. Once a guy gets you one on one close in, as a keeper, it’s pretty much just an opportunity to shine. The goal is expected.

by exSlacker on Feb 18, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Decent goals, but he's not exactly a Lionel Messi or something

Considering that that’s the vast majority of his scoring since 2007, that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 2:10 AM PST up reply actions  

That wasn't why I posted them

Any more than why the quetion was asked; nor is it a sensible comparison, since no-one is “a Lionel Messi”; if they were, Lionel Messi wouldn’t be held in such regard. Really, “but he’s no Messi” is the sort of thing I’d expect to see on the official forums.

Since we’re at it, though, we have one offside trap sprung, a difficult first time finish from the near post (in a move where he was involved in the build-up), two good headers (and again, he was involved in the build-up for one of them) and taking advantage of a defensive error caused solely by him pressuring the defender. If nothing else it’d be good to have a forward who can find the net with his noggin.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

What was the point of posting them?

Clearly hyperbole is beyond you, so I’ll be plain: Johnson’s goals were decent, nothing special and considering that those five goals are 71% of Johnson’s production since 2007, they don’t provide much support for his signing. We traded away two decent players for one player who had a decent run in the Greek league two years ago and had a good season in MLS five years ago. How is that a good deal?

And with his track record, I’m not sure we should be counting on Johnson to find the net with his noggin or anything else.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I posted them

As a counter to Dave’s post implying that EJ’s goals are hard to come by. No-one was claiming that he was some kind of miracle goalscorer.

As for hyperbole being beyond me, I assure you I recognised it for what it was – and that’s exactly why I said it was more fitting of the Sounders forum than here.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

That's pretty funny. Very impressed with the amout of ground Gspurning covered,

while literally on the ground. He almost managed to get a hand to the shot.

by Sobchak on Feb 17, 2012 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I've actually followed EJ's career since he was in High School

I’m from St. Augustine, FL and Johnson is from about 30 minutes down the road. Before Nathan Sturgis came along he was the closest thing I had to a hometown player to root for. Now I haven’t watched him play since he left Fulham, but frankly, has anyone seen him play in the last few years? But my take on him:

He was always a limited player. He had elite speed, and that was about it. He burst onto the Nation Team scene because no body knew how to defend him at first. But eventually defenses realized just to play off him so he can’t get behind you because when he received the ball with his back to goal, he lacks the courage to turn and looks desperately for a back pass, even skipping a level and playing the ball back to the deepest defender, whatever the safest play was, even when he wasn’t under pressure. At Fulham they tried to turn him into a winger, but he isn’t creative enough to get around a defender he can’t just blow by, and his final ball was never there.
He was a great athlete and a big kid. Seeing as Freddy really likes to drop deep, if we stay away from his weaknesses and let him exploit his speed (if he still has it) and latch onto the last defender he could actually be very effective.

A lot of his European struggles were because he went after a payday and when things went south he held onto his contract when he should have scaled back to smaller clubs that would develop him more slowly. He was never willing to sacrifice income for development. But EJ grew up dirt poor, and coming from those circumstances I can understand why he wanted to maximize his income.

by olorcain on Feb 17, 2012 7:54 PM PST reply actions  

Unfortunately, this is just about what I expected...

A one-dimensional player without much of a “soccer mind.” (And the bit about backpasses is positively Vagen-esque.) A player who relied on sheer speed — of which he probably doesn’t have much anymore. And someone who seems to put the dollar über alles.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:06 AM PST up reply actions  

if there was any question before...

There is no longer a debate. The FO has officially blown this team up!

by Alonso45 on Feb 17, 2012 7:56 PM PST reply actions  

i wouldn't

call this blowing up the team.

by gstommylee on Feb 17, 2012 8:14 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a little dramatic

We’ve had a fair ammount of moves but none of the players we lost, with the exception of Keller, were “core” guys. These are the first losses that I’m actually going to miss but the majority of our attacking pieces are still here.

@Emerald_Sounder

by Disco_Stew on Feb 17, 2012 8:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes I agree

Because Keller retiring, Friberg asking to go home to Sweden, Boss retiring, letting Noonan go, letting Montano go, Riley getting picked in the expansion draft and trading two reserves is blowing up the team.

by Coug1990 on Feb 18, 2012 9:08 AM PST up reply actions  

90% of these comments are homer crap!

Fucito, who was so promissing. Good player. Hard worker. Did he score regularly last year? No. Even when given the time. Neagle. Good up and coming player. Scored three goals in one game. Take that into his talley count. We have major depth at midfield and are using our strength. At least Johnson has internation and European experience. This was a stategic move by the FO. I think everyone should stop loving our players and hoping our FO is looking to win. This was a bold move that didn’t have to be made. This is a move to win now. Johnson has bounced around, since in Europe. Look at Altidore. Same thing. Now he is with a club and is scoring goals. It isn’t alway so cut and dry. Good move Sounders. Trade up to get the first pick last year and do it again this year. Thinking outside the box. Isn’t that what we want?

by Camnehem on Feb 17, 2012 8:09 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Yep, think of it this way

The FO has went out and acquired White, Ochoa and now Johnson to pair with Montero because they were not as enamored with Fucito as the fans.

by Coug1990 on Feb 17, 2012 8:18 PM PST up reply actions  

jozy

is “22”

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 8:31 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

yes, let's

and, by premier league, you mean championship-destined-for-relegation

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 8:49 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

He wasn't on Cardiff last year

And Dave was talking about last year.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 8:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm speaking in general

Players don’t always fit in with the system or the coaching philosiphy. Comparing him to Altidore is because they were both loaned out a few times. Maybe, it just didn’t work for him. New countries, cities. I just don’t think the FO is ignorantly giving up two good prospects for someone that has nothing to offer.

by Camnehem on Feb 17, 2012 9:09 PM PST up reply actions  

i was referring to preston north end

…which was more recent and involved more time on the field than his substitutions at fulham.

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 9:07 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Okay let's include his time at Preston

Do you really think the MLS is comparable to the English Championship?

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 9:10 PM PST up reply actions  

do you really think...

failing to score in 15 starts for a team destined for league 1 is a strong indicator of MLS success?

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 9:16 PM PST via Android app up reply actions   1 recs

Do you really think

Scoring two goals in MLS in 19 appearances is a strong indicator of MLS success?

And don’t even bother bringing up Johnson’s age. The age gap is two years and Johnson has a boatload of professional experience under his belt.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 9:35 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

i think...

leaving out the ccl performance is nonsense. I also think this isn’t a direct fucito vs johnson comparison.

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 9:50 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

1) Look above for my comments on his CCL

Four of his five goals were in two home games, one of which was after the Sounders had been mathematically eliminated and Marathon had been effectively eliminated.

2) You’re sure making it seem that way.

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 9:55 PM PST up reply actions  

i forgot...

that some goals aren’t actually goals. Goals that are not goals are perhaps still better than not goals that never pretended otherwise.

I hope all players in this deal do well. I hope it turns out well for both teams…

BUT

…if you’re knocking Fucito’s goal-scoring consistency than EJ is far from the platonic ideal… if one aspires to consistency in player evaluation. This deal requires that EJ SIGNIFICANTLY outperform Fucito in order to be worthwhile. Last year is not a positive indicator no matter how you hype Johnson’s record or denigrate Fucito’s.

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 10:12 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

in kind

…just as you are kidding yourself believing the quality of the opposing team is wholly responsible for EJ’s lack of goals?

by nimajneb on Feb 17, 2012 11:07 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

You think Championship opposition during league play

Is comparable to the Kitsap Pumas and CCL teams who’ve already had their hopes dashed?

I met a possum.

by s0merand0mdude on Feb 17, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions  

I never said it was...

but then, 6 goals in 29 competitive appearances isn’t comparable to 0 in 28 in much the same way.

Let me put it more succinctly. The last time Eddie Johnson demonstrated he could reliably exceed Fucito’s output (let alone exceed the production from both players he is replacing) was 2007. The level of competition he has faced in the intervening years is not a sufficient excuse to have confidence in him.

Could scouting identify something in him that suggests he can justify the price? Perhaps…. though similar scouting hasn’t given him a real national team look in the same time span. I would be DELIGHTED if Johnson recovers the performance of ‘07. Even with a strengthened MLS, that would almost certainly be an upgrade. However, this trade relies upon that scenario being “likely.” His more recent competitive performances don’t really justify those odds, and that evidence is all that we, as fans, have handy.

If he turns into a “good” MLS forward this year then I’ll take it as another reason to trust the Sounders’ scouting dept (and be, as a fan, happy). In the meantime, the concern that they might have given too much weight to a bygone talent is entirely valid.

by nimajneb on Feb 18, 2012 1:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Why, where would you rank it?

Because really, if you rank the Championship that highly you need to watch more of The Football League Show. A very good MLS team – and I mean outstanding – would in their best year be a yoyo team: promotion to the Prem and immediate relegation the year after, possibly with a Barnsleyesque points tally. The worst would probably struggle to make the playoffs in League One – but would still put a few past the current Rochdale squad. Given the span of talent, comparison to the Championship is not that unrealistic.

That’s something that’s borne out by the typical destination for US players looking to ply their trade in England, too; all but the most exceptional players tend to get their first taste in the Championship, while very few are involved below that (though in part that’s because of the amount of effort and pay scale from League One downwards), which is still borne out by the current squad lists for every UK team:

Premier League – 8 (of which 4 are keepers)
Championship – 5
League One – 3
League Two 1 (keeper)

Bobby Convey and Brian McBride notably both got their first taste in the Championship, too, while Jay DeMerit was a stalwart of the league after his earlier travels around the lower leagues. That’s because it’s a good proving ground for players who show potential.

Besides, there are precious little other viable options for U.S.ians back in Blighty now that Rangers is tottering…

by Targaff on Feb 17, 2012 9:47 PM PST up reply actions  

The fact their WDL was 10-12-24

Strongly suggests that they had endemic issues throughout the team. It’s not unreasonable to expect a striker to get at least a couple on the board over half a season, when there’s basically little to no service through, even the best forward in the world is going to be feasting on bones.

Soccerway and PNE’s own website say it was 16 games, btw.

by Targaff on Feb 17, 2012 10:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Correct...

I don’t get this “good players can’t be good when they’re on bad teams.” Isn’t the point of good players to lift the team? It looks more like EJ sinks to whatever his team’s level is.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 17, 2012 11:53 PM PST up reply actions  

There's a world of difference

Between “good players can’t be good on bad teams” and “good players can’t turn a bad team good”.

You think there should be a tangible lift from a good player? How about instead of griping about goals scored you take a closer look at the team’s performance during his tenure there: in the 30 games prior to Johnson’s arrival, PNE, the worst team in the league at the time, had managed just 24 points from 30 games (PP90 of 0.8). After he arrived, they managed 18 points in 16 games (PP90 of 1.125), an improvement of more than 40% improvement that over the course of a full season would have seen them finish in 19th place with 51 points, a full 9 points above the relegation zone – and that despite losing John Parkin in the winter transfer window, who I think was their top scorer at the time with an almighty six.

Woo, hey, suddenly it doesn’t look so bad! Except that it would be just as nonsensical to attribute all of that improvement to one player as it is to heap the blame for a crap team’s ultimately downfall on one player’s shoulders.

Christ, I don’t even have particularly care for Johnson other than him being a name I’ve vaguely heard of during internationals Seattle’s done itself proud in showing of its self-obsessed whingy side today.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 12:40 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Interesting

Really, that’s about all anyone should have to say about it at this stage.

by Targaff on Feb 17, 2012 8:17 PM PST reply actions  

100 percent support EJ

We need to support EJ because it is not his choice/fault that he will be playing with the sounders……we welcome & wish you the best Eddie Johnson… GOOOOo Sounders

by Kriexx on Feb 17, 2012 8:22 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Well it's partly his fault

I believe he said he didn’t want to play for Montreal.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 8:41 PM PST up reply actions  

seattle have the final decision though

at the end of the day it is up to the Sounders to take him on board.

by Kriexx on Feb 18, 2012 8:28 AM PST up reply actions  

anyone have a link to KJR interview/press conference?

I can’t seem to find it and missed the live stream

by TS6 on Feb 17, 2012 8:34 PM PST reply actions  

It's been four hours...

…and I’ve had three rye old fashions.

Here are my thoughts:

Fuck this trade. Fuck this trade right in its ass.

I have a really bad feeling about this. Like, Rick Mirer bad. Richie Sexson bad. Jim McIlvaine bad. Like Heathcliff Slocumb for Derek Lowe & Jason Varitek bad.

This is the first time the front office has done something I 100% don’t understand and it sucks.

I’ll obviously support EJ but he better work his ass off like no other. That guy better come In here humble and hungry and ready to completely buy into Sigi’s system. And he better do it with a smile on his face.

Ok, I now that I’ve got that out of my system, I feel a little better.

by ryanhealy on Feb 17, 2012 8:43 PM PST reply actions  

Gus Williams for Rickey Sobers bad?

Ahman Green for Fred Vinson bad?

by lemonverbena on Feb 17, 2012 9:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Scott Spezio bad. Rich Aurelio bad.

Oh, what the hell…virtually every trade the Mariners have made post-Gillick bad.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:08 AM PST up reply actions  

What does this move tell us?

1: Sivebaeck looks to have rocketed up the depth chart, if not prompting this move, then making it more palatable. I expect he outclassed Neagle in the rotation for wide midfield (let’s not forget he is younger than Neagle as well). Also provides another option at forward.

2: Sigi values size and speed. Specifically mentioned Johnson will provide more of an aerial threat for a team whipping in crosses. Fucito provided speed and strength, but was at an obvious disadvantage in aerial battles. Makes me curious if this move opens up space for Sodade, who obviously has the size and strength, but apparently has surprising speed as well.

3: Liquor sales in the Seattle area just went up 900%

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Feb 17, 2012 9:05 PM PST reply actions  

I agree with your comments on #2...to a point...

I think it’s clear by now that Sigi has a hard-on about basing his offense on crosses to big target men’s heads. It’s why he stuck with Jaqua long after it was clear to everyone else that his competent days were behind him. It’s why he brought in Nkufo.

Now, if EJ can actually get on a number of those crosses and stick them in the back of the net, while not weakening us in some other way, we’ll all be happy. But Fucito offered us another alternative for forward play, one based on speed, guile, and bullying defenders, when the former approach wasn’t working. Think about our playoff matches against RSL: Ochoa (typical Sigi strategy) gets the start there, is completely ineffective, and we get toasted. In the second leg, Fucito starts instead, and we immediately improve, and almost pull off one of the great comebacks in world futbol. Imagine how we might have fared had we started Fucito for the first leg as well.

This trade seems to me to mean that it’s going to be “crosses to big target men” for breakfst, lunch, and dinner, seven days a week, three-hundred and sixty-six days a year. God help us if it doesn’t work.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:36 AM PST up reply actions  

It's not quite that

In that Johnson also has the speed to play Fucito’s game, in addition to Nkufo’s game. The better analogy is the fluid and diverse attack we had for the first few games of last season with OBW starting as the target man.

by Tohoya on Feb 18, 2012 12:40 AM PST up reply actions  

He HAD the speed to do that...

…back in 2007. Whether he still has it now is debatable. Lots of players lose a crucial step or two by the time they’ve gone from their early- to late-20s. And we really don’t have a whole lot of data points between then and now.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 2:09 AM PST up reply actions  

He can lose a step from his old form

and still at least have Fucito’s speed

by Tohoya on Feb 18, 2012 9:00 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Really?

Fucito was the fastest player last year and I think the second fastest player this year until he was traded.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

really.

straight line speed EJ was maybe a half step slower than Donovan.

by olorcain on Feb 18, 2012 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

That's a concern of mine too. But let's leave Neagle out of it for a second and compare Fucito and Johnson

I haven’t actually seen that much of Johnson, especially recently. But he is supposed to have speed and strength. Fucito also had speed and strength (albeit a different variety – low center of mass). Johnson is better in the air.

It seemed to me that we stopped focusing so much on the sort of one-note attack because of Fucito’s physical limitations as much as his physical strengths, for better or worse.

Ideally, Johnson will be able to provide that same speed, strength, shot, AND heading ability as an added bonus. It doesn’t necessarily dictate that we have to completely alter the attack.

Honestly, I’m a little worried too. If I had to give up Neagle and Fucito, Johnson would not be the player I’d ask for, but it could turn out better than we think. Also, as people were discussing earlier, having a consistent strike partnership has its merits.

La Vecchia Signora Forever!

by AKSupporter on Feb 18, 2012 12:46 AM PST up reply actions  

So it was Ochoa's fault on the first RSL game

that every player on our team couldn’t pass? Come on, we played horrible that game in every aspect and to try and correlate that with the home leg and Fucito is stretching it at best. I love everything that Fucito brings to the table but lets be objective here. It’s not a great trade but it’s not like we traded Montero and Rosales for EJ. Lets give the guy a chance to play before we start saying how he is horrible.

by Colin Johnson on Feb 18, 2012 2:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Seriously

This has got to be the first day of the entire offseason that I haven’t checked twitter and SaH evrery ten minutes all damn day. The first place I heard this was kjr of all places. Thanks to the gasman for stepping up. Much swearing on the ride home but then almost immediate trust in the FO. Ditto the comments that neagle and fucito were expendable in the roster. Well, fucito is only expendable because of EJ, but you get my point. I will miss both personalities. However, I have high hopes for the season. What a way to end a day in which my 2 year old dumps a juice box into the dvr I just had hooked up yesterday. The sole purpose of the dvr and getting cable was so I could watch all the f-ing soccer in the world. Irony.

by jmitchell on Feb 17, 2012 9:30 PM PST reply actions  

Sigi: "Eddie is a forward with vast international experience"

Really, Sigi? Based on his record, I’d say his international experience is more half-vast.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:13 AM PST up reply actions  

What else are they going to say?

“Yeah, well, we all got really drunk and a game of Truth or Dare got going and it was Adrian’s turn and he took Dare… Anyway, Eddie’s here, so…”

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 2:14 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

How would we know either way?

I can’t know what they believe any more than you can, because neither one of us can read their minds. The point is they would say the same thing either way, because the deal is done and the player is here.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

The difference?

My interpretation has some evidence of being true. Yours implies they are knowingly making a bad deal, which is just silly.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The point is that the quotes tell us nothing

They’re the same kinds of things FOs say when signing players. Maybe they believe them 100%, maybe they don’t. Even if they don’t think they got the best deal they could have, they’re not going to say that. Even if they have private doubts about Johnson, they’re not going to air those doubts to the press at his introduction. They’re going to put the best face on the deal possible, no matter what they think about it privately.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 1:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I clearly recall Fucito doing plenty of pushing around.

That said, I think your analysis is generally correct.

by agtk on Feb 17, 2012 9:57 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

you call that pushing around?

Sounders just moved down the Western Conference pecking order…good luck with this move…

"It was impossible to get a conversation going. Everybody was talking too much" - Yogi Berra

by rindworld on Feb 18, 2012 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Fucito and John, in photos

Fucito did not get pushed around by John. I was there, about 4 rows back. It went both ways.

That said, I don’t think this moved us down at all. Unless you’re arguing that Fucito did indeed push GJ around and we would be better off with him. You’re confusing me.

by agtk on Feb 18, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

After an appropriate amount of time to get over the initial shock

I feel like Lamar Neagle—despite undeniably high character—isn’t much of a loss. His “counting stat” production is largely the product of what seems to be an unsustainably high success rate from distance and the superior play of his teammates. The left winger on the Seattle Sounders is currently in a position to succeed despite himself, the rest of the attacking side is that loaded. (Even discounting the possible return of Zakuani or the rumored skill of Sivebaek)

So the question becomes, would you rather have Mike Fucito or Eddie Johnson? My gut says I’d rather have Fucito… despite his lack of production within MLS, we’ve all witnessed the raw skill; the pace, the surprising strength, and the gifted left foot. But the Sounders front office team and coaching staff haven’t led us astray so far and I’m not normally the type of guy to stomach an appeal to authority but my trust has been earned.

Flip a coin, I guess

by ClosetCoug on Feb 17, 2012 10:35 PM PST reply actions  

It's not the loss of Neagle and Fucito, at least for me.

It’s the loss of Neagle and Fucito for significantly less than their value.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 17, 2012 10:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Perhaps

But if Sigi and Adrian think we’re getting Eddie Johnson of pre-European migration (and oh lord I hope they believe it.) Haven’t we just gotten a steal?

It seems to me to be a calculated risk—-but that risk is falling on accumulated depth rather than money.

by ClosetCoug on Feb 17, 2012 10:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, clearly that's what they're betting on.

I happen to think they could have made a far, far better bet given the cards they were holding.

by Aaron Campeau on Feb 17, 2012 10:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I would agree

But with the reservation being… this risk is so high risk, high reward; that speculation is even more futile than it usually is when it comes to transactions right?

by ClosetCoug on Feb 17, 2012 10:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I always appreciate a thoughtful contribution

But I don’t understand why this comment is green. Selling two talented players down the river for a totally unproven commodity isn’t the same as having to cut a “decent” player to meet the roster limitations. Mike Fucito was in all likelihood the second forward and Lamar Neagle the second attacking option off of the bench.

A “decent” player is Tetteh, or Sanyang or Seamon or any number of others who wont be seriously adding to any trophy runs next year

by ClosetCoug on Feb 18, 2012 1:00 AM PST up reply actions  

You said it yourself,

Neagle was coming off the bench. He is decent player depth on a good team. But, he was never going to be a full time starter on this team. Therefore, he can be replaced.

Fucito is decent player depth on a good team, but the Sounders have shown what they think of him as a full time starter, they acquired White, Nlufo, Ochoa and now Johnson.

Giving up two bench players for a starter is not a bad trade. if Johnson busts, which is a possibility, they will go out and rectify that mistake in the summer.

The Sounders have scouted Johnson as he is training the same area the Sounders had been training. They must still think he has great physical gifts. Even if he is not the goal scorer he once was, the defense will still have to pay attention to him.

by Coug1990 on Feb 18, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not sure the reward is even that high...

As others have pointed out, even if EJ can regain the form of the mid-2000s (and that’s a pretty huge “if,” in my opinion), that still means he’ll ony be at the talent level of the MLS back then. If the current MLS is around the talent level of the British Championship, MLS back then was around the level of League One. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that even EJ at his MLS 2.0 best would be less-than-effective in MLS 3.0.

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:24 AM PST up reply actions  

ENGLISH Championship

Not “British”. Scots and Welsh are Brits, and have their own leagues.

May seem like a minor point but if you ever make that mistake in the company of a Scot or Welshman you’ll earn yourself an hour’s harangue and possibly a broken nose!

by Fnarf on Feb 18, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

There are Welsh teams in the Championship.

at least in the EPL for sure. It’s a British league.

by Iam333 on Feb 18, 2012 9:11 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Cardiff City

is in the Championship.

by foolsgambit on Feb 18, 2012 11:55 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Some Welsh teams are part of the English Leagues

Wales does have their own soccer league called the Welsh Premier League which was founded in 1992. Prior to then all Welsh teams played as part of the English football league system. Interestingly, there are even a few English teams from areas that border Wales that play in the Welsh league structure.

Currently there are six Welsh teams that have remained a part of the English football league system since the clubs were founded. The six clubs are Swansea City in the Premier, Cardiff City in the Championship, with Newport County, Wrexham, Colwyn Bay and Merthyr Town in lesser leagues. These six teams decided to remain a part of the English league competive soccer structure when offered the chance to move to the League of Wales (Welsh Premier League) back in 1992.

The process of determining who would and would not play in the Welsh Premier League was actually quite messy and was not settled until a major court ruling in 1995 affirmed the rights of these Welsh clubs to continue be a part of the English leagues.

by Kiliman2004 on Feb 19, 2012 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I would imagine

that there have been other trades floated around involving each player in the past, so they probably have a pretty good idea of what they could get for them. At least, I hope that is the case.

by Randy Meeker on Feb 17, 2012 11:18 PM PST up reply actions  

After the dust settles

I think the best case scenario is that EJ compliments Fredy well help contributes to the attack with goals and assists. And that both Fucito and Neagle take advantage of their new opportunity and show well enough to get called into the US National Team – one way that I would proudly share their colors again.

by beejay76 on Feb 17, 2012 10:41 PM PST reply actions  

A roster gamble makes a bit of sense here.

The core of the Sounders are here, but they might not be around for another season. We’re an elite team, but one that got stomped by 10 points in the race for the shield last year by LA, and they’ve only improved in the offseason. We’re the clear number two in the league, but number 2s don’t win trophies. So let’s say LAG’s got a power rating of 110, and we know Seattle’s power rating is 100 with Neagle and Fucito. Meanwhile, EJ has a 20% chance of breaking out for a 10-15 goal season, bringing us up to 115 power, and an 80% chance of scoring less and leaving us no better off or possibly worse than the trade was. Even though keeping Fucito and Neagle would net a higher expected return, making the trade maximizes our chances at winning major silverware.

We’re in the 80th minute of Seattle’s run of excellence, and down by a goal. Sigi’s subbed in an additional striker and gone with a 3-4-3 attacking formation.

by Tohoya on Feb 17, 2012 11:56 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Not 10 points

We missed the SS by 4 points last year. That’s winning our first game of the year versus losing. One goal scored or prevented in our encounters with LA would have left us tied on points, head to head, and goal differential with them. I don’t know how the tie breaker would have worked out, but the point is we weren’t as far off the lead as you suggested.

by foolsgambit on Feb 18, 2012 12:32 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

You're right

Looks like my memories had a halo effect from how effective LAG has been in the offseason window.

Still, as improved as LAG is, the point stands. The Sounders as they existed before this trade aren’t the best team in the league. The Sounders with Eddie Johnson in the best case scenario probably are. If you want to maximize the ability of the team to win major trophies, rather than having a more stable chance of finishing in the top 3 and having success in non-MLS competition, this is a good move.

by Tohoya on Feb 18, 2012 12:43 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll certainly agree

we weren’t the best team in the league before this transfer. But this trade certainly doesn’t make us the best team, either.

by foolsgambit on Feb 18, 2012 1:28 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

The year RSL won the Cup, they didn't win the shield

The year that Colorado won the Cup, they didn’t win the shield.

Going into last season in the NFL, the Eagles were anointed as the team to beat because they picked up so may high end free agents. They didn’t even make the playoffs.

The Galaxy are the best team because they are the defending champions, but there is no guarantee that they will win anything this season.

by Coug1990 on Feb 18, 2012 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Or to put it another way

It’s the difference between converting all of our penalties and not doing.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 9:35 AM PST up reply actions  

My drunk math was off.

One goal scored/prevented would still have left us a point back. A goal scored and a goal prevented was needed, and we’d be SS winners outright.

by foolsgambit on Feb 18, 2012 10:15 AM PST via Android app up reply actions  

"We’re the clear number two in the league, but number 2s don’t win trophies."

This is MLS. Number 8s win trophies all the time.

That said, I’m highly skeptical that a player who’s basically done nothing for five years is suddenly going to turn it on. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong and I hope he does, but I’m not filled with confidence.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 1:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Quick, name all the No. 8s who won trophies

And then compare it to the number of No. 1s

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 9:12 AM PST up reply actions  

It's a league with playoffs

You don’t need to be #1 to win it all. That’s what makes it so great, right? That’s why all the eurosnobs and purists need to shut up about single table, right?

If we were in some other league, I’d worry about not being the clear number one. In MLS, it just doesn’t matter.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

You notably failed to answer my question

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Since I know you won't bother to actually look it up...

Here’s the plain facts:

In 16 years, the Supporters Shield winner has won the MLS Cup 6 times. The No. 8 seed has won it twice. I know you’d like to believe that winning the MLS Cup is basically like rolling the dice, but the reality is that the better you are during the regular season, the more likely you are to win the MLS Cup.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 1:32 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for saving me some Googling

So in 16 years, the #1 team has been the champion in MLS 37.5% of the time, which is three times better than the 12.5% that the #8 team has done it. In 82 years, the #1 team in Serie A has won the championship 100% of the time.

If we were in Serie A, I’d worry about not being the clear number one. In MLS, not so much.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

or to put it another way

The No. 1 team is 3x as likely to win the Cup than the No. 8 team. I like those odds a lot.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Or to put it yet another way

Someone other than the #1 team is 1.67x as likely to win it as the #1 team.

And what’s the comparison between the #1 teams and the #2 teams? If we’re that #2 team, do we really have to scramble to try to become that #1 team? Objectively, no, not in MLS. If we were in a single table, no playoff league, then yes, there’s a very significant difference between #1 and #2. In MLS, there just isn’t.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

punch to the guts

…ugh! I’ll miss the spirit and on field presence Fucito and Nagle brought, That being said, I have confidence in Sigi and management to pick the best player available.

by Robb Lincoln on Feb 18, 2012 12:04 AM PST reply actions  

Further thoughts

The more I think about it, the more I think this trade will really improve the team. Fucito vs. Ochoa as second forward is kind of a tossup, and they would be slated to play few enough minutes between the two of them that the one should be able to fill in nicely for the other. Zakuani’s recovery should make it so that Neagle’s playing time would be near nil (and I think this trade indicates that the FO has faith that Zak will be back to at least an average MLS outside mid soon). And these are above average MLS players making minimum salary. They’re not worth a lot to us, but they could be worth a ton to other teams.

Granting that trading them is in order, though, I’m not sure EJ is the best we could get. I’d say that two players with the upside and cap hit of Fucito and Neagle are worth at least a, say, Justin Braun or Kei Kamara. It is worth noting, however, that such a move for a higher quality player would probably eat at least 100k more of cap room than EJ does.

by Tohoya on Feb 18, 2012 12:08 AM PST reply actions  

I think I've figured this trade out...

It’s merely a way of sending a message to Montero: “So, Fredy, you’re thinking you might want to move on to glory in Europe? Take a look at what happened to someone else who tried. Now, don’t you think you’d be happier staying in Seattle for the rest of your career?”

by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 12:27 AM PST reply actions  

yep, that's what this is about

good work

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 9:13 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

LeToux...

I think we’re all still smarting from losing Seb to Philly… Yes, one day Lamar and Mike could turn out the same way, but they weren’t MLS starting XI yet… With roster sizes and salary cap, I don’t see how you can hang on to everyone, and I can see the reason behind this trade. It’s hard cause these guys have been defining Sounders the last couple seasons, and we love to root for guys like that. I’m holding on to the thought that the Sounders are trying to develop a system and consistent style of play and that means there’s always going to be some amount of roster movement… Guess I’m willing to see how the team plays…

by deflater mouse on Feb 18, 2012 7:12 AM PST reply actions  

I'll take the trade

1. Because it shows SSFC mgmt feels good about their depth chart.

2. Showing that a fan favorite is expendable in order to reach the next level.

by Hoboken on Feb 18, 2012 9:34 AM PST reply actions  

After sleeping on it, I've adjusted my original thoughts on this.

I loved FUcito and Neagle as players. They were 2 of my favorite players to watch and i wanted them to be giving every chance to succeed. However, you can’t deny that we all knew there were going to be cuts to this roster. Here’s why i think this trade makes sense.

Neagle had a great year last year, but he was a substitute that only played a lot of minutes because Zak was injured all year, Flaco had injury problems in the middle of the season, and Mauro was injured in the end.

If we go by the roster this year, Sivebaek has by all accounts shown a lot and worked his way into possible starting role territory. If we assume Zak is also coming back strong that leaves Neagle was down the depth chart. He would have Rosales, Flaco, Zak, and Sivebaek in front of him.

Fucito performed fantastically in the Open Cup and CCL, and i think he deserves more credit then he is given for his MLS appearances, but I don’t think his production will be impossible to fill.

Cato sounds like a good addition in the short fast forward role. He is younger and also has lots of potential. Between Cato, Ochoa, Johnson, Estrada, and Sivebaek, we have a lot of Depth at forward. Risking a loss of Fucito’s CCL and open cup contribution is well worth it to bring in someone with a higher ceiling that can help us in MLS competition. I’m pretty sure his CCL/Open Cup production can be made up by Ochoa, Cato, or Estrada.

I hate this freaking trade because I loved the players we had to give up. However, Johnson was a good player in the past, and we’ve obviously been scouting him for awhile. Henderson, Sigi, and Adrian wouldn’t have made this trade unless they saw something that made them think Johnson still had the ability that made him a top goal scorer in this league.

"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."

by DarthGreedo on Feb 18, 2012 10:28 AM PST reply actions  

Couldn't agree more with your last paragraph.

Surprised me how reading the headline of this article was like getting punched in the stomach. (That photo of Fucito ripping George John’s arm off is a moment I will always remember fondly.) But reading through 488 comments has given me some time to step back and breathe.

Every FO is going to make mistakes, and the Sounders FO has surely made mistakes, but I think they’ve also shown that they’re very shrewd. If they see something in EJ makes the potential outcome worth the gamble in their minds, I’m willing to wait and see without calling for their heads on a pike. One thing for sure is they’re watching a lot more film than I am.

I’m reminded to go back and skim an article from Nov 2011 in which Adrian Hanauer said about roster management (I’m paraphrasng): “Sometimes you have to lose something to make an improvement.” Nobody wants to see a player they love traded away from the team, especially for a player that is a question mark. But it’s not often that a team is able to make a dramatic improvement at a position without sacrificing something to make it happen. So let’s get the surgery over with now so that we can move forward toward the ultimate goal.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soundersfcblog/2016769956_schmid_on_goalkeeping_protecti.html?syndication=rss

And as much as it hurts to see beloved players go,you can always follow and support those players, no matter what team they play for. I’ll always sit down to watch a game if LeToux, Sturgis, Riley, or Wahl are playing. Of course we all wish Fucito and Neagle success in the future. But we also hope that EJ pulls a “Mauro” and proves himself to all the critics.

by gMat on Feb 18, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Mauro had a much better record

He wasn’t nearly the question mark that Johnson is.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Based on what criteria?

If we’re looking at the 4 years prior to coming to SSFC and disregarding whatever came before, which seems to be all anyone is looking at with Johnson, they’re pretty comparable. Mauro only started 36 league games for River Plate, in 4 years. He came off the bench 29 times, notching 4 goals and 7 assists. During that time River Plate did win one Clausura – but also finished bottom of the Apertura the very next year. Playing for a former (and now relegated) powerhouse in an okay league, he was a squad player, nothing more.

Mauro absolutely had a question mark over him when he came here. He also had a promising career in Europe that didn’t pan out, but the coaching staff and managerial team got to see the player and brought him on board on the basis of what they saw then, not because of what it said on his wikipedia entry. By the same token, it’s about time the fanbase had a little bit of faith in their FO rather than sobbing into their beer because they can’t get past “Oh, but he scored 0 in 16” – for a team in a league 99% of them never watch.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 2:11 PM PST up reply actions  

mauro was a trialist

we gave up two players who were part of the top scoring offense in the league for EJ, we didn’t for mauro

by nimajneb on Feb 18, 2012 2:15 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

And?

What we paid really has sod all to do with whether or not their two situations as incoming players are comparable. Every player has a cost, and that cost is determined by the circumstances at the time. If we’d had to or been in a position to make room for Mauro, I have no doubt the FO would’ve done exactly the same thing. Now granted, I doubt there would have been such a hue and cry about it if we’d traded Fucito and Neagle to get Mauro – but only because he came into the league as a relative unknown, so the supporters didn’t have their preconceptions to guide them.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

and, they're both "question marks"

…and making a discovery claim and giving a question mark a thorough look and trial is a more standard practice than trading two proven useful depth players with MLS starter upside.

I’m not wandering around this thread saying EJ couldn’t prove useful… perhaps even as useful as Mauro if he regains ‘07 form. I’m saying that the balance of the deal, as it stands, is bad, given recent performances.

One could also reasonably argue that Rosales’ had a better track record overseas than EJ, and a broader skill set not as likely to be lost by physical changes or erratic form. However, the point is that, even if you consider them equivalent risks, the manner of acquisition makes this a bad deal.

by nimajneb on Feb 18, 2012 3:20 PM PST up reply actions  

And I'm not saying

Anything about the deal, because it’s not pertinent to the point I was making. Carlos’s statement was “Mauro had a much better record – He wasn’t nearly the question mark that Johnson is;” nothing more, nothing less. For the reasons stated I don’t agree, and those reasons would still stand even if we’d sold the club to obtain Mauro while getting EJ for a week old half-bag of peanuts. I honestly couldn’t care less whether or not a good deal – it’s just not relevant if all you’re doing is a side-by-side comparison of their pre-Sounders activities.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

one could quite reasonably say...

that Mauro’s Ajax run was a lot more successful than EJ’s european odyssey.

by nimajneb on Feb 18, 2012 4:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Quite reasonably

63 appearances at a top level club, after which he was sold for a 1.8 million euro transfer fee to River Plate, is much better than being shuttled around to various third tier clubs and never sticking.

A guy who was a multiple-year role-player at Ajax and then a multiple-year role player at River Plate just isn’t as much of a question mark as a guy who couldn’t stick at Fulham, couldn’t stick at Cardiff, couldn’t stick at Aris, and couldn’t stick at Preston North End. What’s hard to follow about that?

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

What hard to follow

About “By the time he came to Qwest, Mauro’s time at Ajax was 5 years hence”? Or “for most of the intervening period he was a bit-part player”?

Compare and contrast: “The last time Eddie Johnson had a successful season was 2007, over 4 years before he came to the Clink. For most of the intervening period he was only rarely a regular first teamer for any of the teams he played for”.

I am genuinely astonished that someone who can manage to put together 3 relatively coherent paragraphs in the other post is apparently incapable of recognizing the extent to which you’re cherry-picking your facts. Either hold up Johnson’s journeyman ways against Rosales’ heel-kicking or give both full credit for their entire careers; otherwise you’re making a fundamentally flawed argument by comparing apples and oranges.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 6:13 PM PST up reply actions  

I am giving Johnson the full credit of his career

It’s just that his career isn’t much. A couple good years in MLS. A decent run in Greece. Not much else.

by CarlosT on Feb 18, 2012 6:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Apparently

Reading skills are at a real premium here.

f we’re looking at the 4 years prior to coming to SSFC and disregarding whatever came before, which seems to be all anyone is looking at with Johnson, they’re pretty comparable

In case that wasn’t absolutely clear enough, that was a pointed comment about people doing exactly what you’re doing.

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

It seems

My editing skills are also pretty much non-existent today, too…

by Targaff on Feb 18, 2012 6:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey guys,

I’ve never been a big soccer guy, to be honest I really found it boring and it was hard for me to enjoy. Recently though I had decided to give soccer a real chance and to sit down and watch some Sounders games in the upcoming season. Then like two weeks later this happened. I know very little about anything soccer (except David Beckham1), so you can imagine that I’m a little lost seeing as almost every Sounders fan I’ve seen has been losing their minds. If it’s not too much to ask, could someone kind of explain to me what is happening with the Sounders (I’m aware they’ve won like multiple US Cups, but I don’t know what that really means) and what kind of happened in this trade? From what I’ve gathered it’s kind of a two growing, productive, potential stars for an aging former star (?) trade, is this kind of accurate? I’m primarily a baseball and football fan, so perhaps a comparison using one of those would help me. Anyway, I really appreciate any help and I look forward to the upcoming Sounders season with you guys. (By the way, Montreal Impact is just a terrible name.)

by SeaKoala on Feb 18, 2012 2:00 PM PST reply actions  

Well I guess SB Nation formatting doesn't like mixes of 1's, !'s, and elevens.

And I’m sorry if this was the wrong place to post this message, feel free to flag and delete if it is in the wrong spot.

by SeaKoala on Feb 18, 2012 2:02 PM PST up reply actions  

It's a fine question...

See if I can find an analogy … maybe something along the lines of this:

Remember when the Reds picked up Josh Hamilton? He was 25 and had never really panned out the way everyone expected him to. Well, imagine if the Reds had traded say, Edwin Encarnacion and Austin Kearns to get him. Well, Reds fans would have been pretty pissed. In this case, it would have worked out well for them. Who knows how well it will work out for the Sounders.

Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.

by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 2:08 PM PST up reply actions  

If you're a Mariners guy...

It feels a little bit like the Erik Bedard trade, though the Sounders are far better before and after this trade than the M’s were at the time.

Like Adam Jones, Mike Fucito and Lamar Neagle were fan favorites with a lot of potential. Jones and his fellow trade pieces haven’t realized that potential. I hope Neagle does.

I wouldn’t be surprised if these two went all Shin Soo Choo (Neagle) and Asdrubal Cabrera (Fucito) on us in a few years.

And the worst part is, because of the new unbalanced schedule, we won’t get a chance to thank those two until 2013.

by Agent_J on Feb 18, 2012 2:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Damn it... I was really invested in Neagle.

Johnson… please help me forget about Neagle…

You need to be an upgrade on Justin Braun, who we could have had just for trading Riley to Chivas and letting Fucito go in expansion.

YOU NEED TO BE.

by Agent_J on Feb 18, 2012 2:50 PM PST reply actions  

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