Eddie Johnson: Gamble Towards Specific Style Of Play
Eddie Johnson's career displays some significant red flags. He was last an effective goal scorer with his club in 2007, albeit in Kansas City. It was a dominant season. His 15 goals and 6 assists in 24 MLS matches (all starts) resulted in a 1.50 PP90. That season became his ticket to Europe. But in Europe he struggled to find a place where he fit. Fulham held his contract the whole time, but he didn't fit as a regular starter there and was loaned down to Cardiff City of the Championship (scoring twice in 30 matches) and then to Aris in Greece (5 goals in 16 appearances) and then to Preston North End on their way to being relegated out of the Championship (0 Goals in 16 matches). There was then a near signing with Major League Soccer, an exploration of a deal with Puebla which went sour through some combination of a lack of agent, front office politics and possibly fitness. His four-year-plus detour to Europe went far from well.
Yet, he stayed in the United States national team picture, but ultimately was not on the 23 man roster for South Africa 2010. Even his scoring in an American kit has an MLS flavor, with 7 of his 12 goals coming in MLS grounds and another 2 within national borders. His 2007 season, his national team experience and even his 2004 season (12 & 3) are the signs of how good EJ can be.
Sigi Schmid, in yesterday's conference call, noted that Johnson is a type of forward missing from the roster:
He’s got pace, which is something that we wanted with a forward up front who can stretch the opponent’s defense. He’s shown his ability to finish in our league, as well. He’s good in the air. He’s a guy who can get on the end of crosses. As you know, we’re a team who does well with our wide play—we get to the end line and we create opportunities in the box—and I think Eddie’s going to be able to take advantage of those opportunities and make us a more dangerous team. We’re very excited, and I’m very excited as a coach to be able to add a player of his ability to the group that we have. It’s just another step forward for us as we try and win more things.
Schmid was also hopeful that this would mean a more regular pairing with Fredy Montero at the top of the Seattle Sounders formation. Rather than rotations for tactical needs, the ideal is now a First XI pair of forwards that are different enough and good enough to become partners. It is a potentially potent offense.
When you now look in the face of Seattle and you’re thinking about—Hey, I’m going up against Eddie Johnson, I’m going up against Fredy Montero, later down the line a Steve Zakuani, a Mauro Rosales. The defense has to spread itself out a little bit.
The Seattle Sounders needed to give up depth to get to that point though. Lamar Neagle was in a battle to be the third healthy wide mid as he clearly would be backing up Alvaro Fernandez and Mauro Rosales. With Christian Sivebaek's preseason so dominant, it would be a difficult road to minutes for the Federal Way native.
At forward, the emergence of a new speed/strength option in David Estrada meant there is a bit of buffer in the loss of Mike Fucito. Still while Fucito showed flashes of scoring ability and notoriously frustrated Jamison Olave, George John and Nemanja Vidic, Estrada was still trying to get a role on the field. The UCLA player slotted in at right mid, center mid, right back (training only) and now as the high forward.
For a team with strong successes in the regular season and Lamar Hunt US Open Cup, the loss of depth could be significant. It could indicate that, instead, the Sounders are now looking at an emphasis on the CONCACAF Champions League and the MLS Cup Playoffs. Those two knockout tournaments value high end talent more than the challenge of a long season or a clearly secondary national cup.
Adrian Hanauer feels that inferring a shift in focus may be jumping to conclusions and points out the other talents added, reminding all that this one deal did not happen in a vacuum.
We want to get better in multiple ways. We want to be better come big games with our starting eleven. We also, obviously, want to be a deep team, as well, for Cups and Champions league. We’ve added pieces to the puzzle pre-season—guys like Christian Sivebaek who have come in and done real well. Guys are returning—we’ve got [Steve] Zakuani on his way to getting healthy. Although, it’s always difficult to part ways with quality young players and quality young men who have been a big part of our organization. We are very excited about brining Eddie to the team…a unique skill set and a type of forward that we don’t currently have on our team. It’s not an indication that we’re going to not try and win everything like we have in the past. It’s just a different roster configuration, I suppose.
That first trophy hunt starts in just a few weeks. The Sounders staff, particularly Dave Tenney, will be pressing Eddie Johnson to prove two things -- that he maintained fitness while at the IMG Academy for the past two months and that Seattle's style is one he can learn quickly.
Johnson himself seemed ready to accept the pressure that will be on him. He was aware of his replacing fan favorites and he knows the goals in Seattle are to collect a couple or more trophies in the 2012 season. He also stated that the pressure will come as much internally as from the outside.
Hanauer and the rest of the Sounders brain trust gambled Friday evening. They took their asset of depth and hoped to get a player who at his best can match Montero's goal scoring prowess. If the brain trust is right, then this is a team that stacks up quite well against the LA Galaxy or Mexican sides. If they are wrong, then the trophy they were most likely to win may now be out of reach.
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Montero sub
Who will start as second forward if Montero is injured. Rosales? Sivebaek? The whole move to me seems like the team wants to build around Montero. I am just worried if we will have a solid plan B in case he is not available for few months.
Estrada and Cato are probably in that discussion
I really think this is a move back to big/small.
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Estrada
Has he ever played as second striker in UCLA (Sorry, I have very little info abt him during his University days) or for Sounders?
Is he a genuine second striker? or is he another all-rounder like Levesque in making?
He started his MLS career looking likely to be a WF
based off his play at UCLA and then started shifting around a lot. He is now settling in at forward again.
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is Estrada really ready to replace Fucito?
I always thought it was odd that he was drafted ahead of Michael Stephens and Kyle Nakazawa in the 2010 draft… I thought those 2 guys were the better UCLA players than Estrada that season (granted estrada is a fwd and they are midfielders). But estrada doesn’t seem to have done much yet… only 1 goal in the reserve league last year and only 6 mls games over 2 seasons. Is he blowing up in preseason or something?
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Feb 18, 2012 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
He's having a great preseason
We’ll have to see if that means anything though.
It should be noted in the Reserves he was a CAM or RM.
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But both those players have had more chances than Estrada also
Sure that might be due to greater ability, but Im inclined to at least speculate that its due to more opportunity.
Rosales to trequartista
and one of Sivebaek, Zakuani or Estrada to RW is another option that would maintain a similar playign style
by PhootieD on Feb 18, 2012 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I would think this
Mauro looked great in limited time at this position last year imo.
| Recessionproof since 2009 | Win all the trophies! | You will surely get the Karkand |
Ina pinch sure, but
Hes so good on the wing Id rather keep him there and try Estrada or Sivebaek or someone at forward.
Rosales
On the wing, Rosales draws coverage and opens up the middle. In the middle, he draws coverage and clogs everything up. Maybe with a taller striker we can now take advantage of the room that would provide on the wing, though.
With Estrada in, we could even see Rosales and Estrada constantly switching between RW and WF, really confounding defenses.
by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 1:39 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Target Forward
So we have 4 proper target forwads as of now in the camp – EJ, Ochoa, White and Soldade. What does this trade mean to the test for the 3 TFs? does it mean White will not be available for atleast another 6 months. Is Soldade not making the cut? Will Ochoa be the new Noonan (in terms of opportunities)?
My guess is that
White aint coming back this season, if ever, and Sodade is a couple seasons away from being a contributor (if he ever will be). Im sure Ochoa will see a decent amount of time.
If it were a straight swap for Fucito...
…I could understand this deal.
Dumping a local kid like Neagle – who created his own space, was strong on the ball and had a scoring touch – just feels completely wrong to me.
I’ll like this move when it pays off, and not a minute sooner.
Eternal Blue, Forever Green. Sounders 'Til I Die.
by Michael Wiegand on Feb 18, 2012 1:16 PM PST reply actions
I wouldn't call this "dumping" at all
Montreal wanted more for EJ than Fucito. They wanted Lamar. Had we cut Lamar, you’d have a better point.
I understand why fans care if Neagle is local
But why should the FO care? If I’m them, I don’t let that factor into the decision of whether or not to keep him.
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course it factors in
Winning is #1, obviously. But the FO knows that interest in and connections with the players can drive interest in the team as a whole. A local guy will probably sell more jerseys, bring more attendance and receive more benefit of doubt from the community than someone from somewhere else who is otherwise the same.
I’m not saying that it’s a major factor, but I’m sure it does factor in.
Attendance and awareness isn't our problem
For the same reason we don’t need a fading underwear model DP to bring fans through the gates we don’t need a local. It’s a “nice to have” aspect to a player but I believe an additional trophy (or better week-to-week play on the pitch) will do more than any pedigree can to engage the masses.
Better week to week play?
Since their founding this is the second best team in the league
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I don't think 2 more points a year
would move the attendance needle.
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I always wonder
about a bunch of guys who go to as many games as they can, and whose friends go to as many games as they can, debating what would raise attendance numbers.
Has anybody here met somebody who’s said, “I’m not going to Sounders games until they win an MLS Cup/hire more locals/beat LA”?
by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 1:46 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
That's not how it works.
Success is something people can’t resist wanting to be a part of. The Sounders are already a huge draw and have had their share of success, but I don’t see how you could deny that winning the MLS would attract more fans to the team. Especially in a country that not only values league championships above all, but doesn’t even understand the idea of adjacent tournaments. I always have friends ask me why the Sounders play so many exhibition games during the season. To them, the Sounders haven’t won anything yet. I think this trade shows us that the Sounders themselves are well aware of this.
tell that
to the Storm.
by foolsgambit on Feb 20, 2012 12:12 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
also
Neither COL nor RSL saw a significant attendance bump after taking home the MLS Cup. Haven’t looked further back.
Sucking consistently definitely drives fans away, but I’m not sure winning suddenly makes fans appear, so much as consistently being very good.
by foolsgambit on Feb 20, 2012 12:17 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
If I want a great team that falls short every year I'll support Arsenal
My point was i don’t believe “local” plays a significant part in awareness or box office or shirt sales. Conversely, i believe pulling up second best annually is a bigger threat to attendance than winning the big prize regularly mixed with rebuilding cycles.
We’re still a new-ish MLS club and have done remarkably well in our short existence. But there isn’t a whole lot more time to bank on everyone feeling the MLS Open Cup and pretty stats are enough out of this talented group (team and organization). It looks like the FO is getting out ahead of this in 2112 and I support that.
You said
attendance and awareness isn’t our problem.
But you give winning as a solution to raising awareness.
You also ignore that I noted that “Winning is #1.” I was merely making the point that the background of a player is obviously a factor. It’s not a big one, but if they had two players that were absolutely equal on the pitch, the local player might make the cut simply for that reason.
I believe we're 99% in agreement
I think I’m a little over-sensitive to suggestions that we’re an entertainment enterprise, maximizing every chance to sell a replica shirt. I’m sure we’re happy with our attendance figures and that our biggest goal is to achieve more on the pitch than we have previously (“winning”) and any moves are made with that in mind. I don’t know if local pedigree is a first order tie-breaker when choosing between two otherwise equal players but perhaps it is.
Because fans are the ones paying the bills
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 18, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
so should fans have a say in all decisions?
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Well, this is a team flouting "Democracy in Sports"...
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 18, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
So vote Hanauer out
as GM when you get the chance. Problem solved.
| Recessionproof since 2009 | Win all the trophies! | You will surely get the Karkand |
No, I love Hanauer and I like this trade
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 18, 2012 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
I hope they work hard to develop local talent
But I also hope they focus on winning over who we win with… short of having criminals, bigots, or other undesirables of course.
Sivebaek
Seems like the part most of us on the outside are having trouble wrapping our brains around is the emergence of Sivebaek. Obviously most of us haven’t seen him yet so it’s hard for us to imagine a guy like Neagle, who had a breakout year, back on the bench. Perhaps it also speaks to more optimism about where Zak is at which would make it even harder for Lamar.
Emotionally, I don’t like it. But the more I think about it, the more this starts to make some sense. For those who haven’t seen EJ play, on his good days there are no American strikers who could touch him. He holds the ball very well, but he’s also fast. His main problem seems to be between his ears. Our coaching staff knows him well so if they have faith that part is sorted out, this could be a brilliant move.
by Derek Young on Feb 18, 2012 1:39 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
My take on that is that
his main problem has always been his first touch (the most important touch in soccer). When he’s on, he utterly superb, when he’s not, he can be utterly frustrating. He also isn’t a particularly versatile passer. He’s good on the one touches to space and working with another forward (Montero will like that) on give and goes, but has a tremendously tough time making feather touches, chips, and fades. All, imo, of course.
by swansuite on Feb 18, 2012 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
All good points
Wish I could find the play, but in 06 WC or maybe WCQ he had the biggest donk first touch turning a sure goal into a goal kick. Remember screaming at the TV for a few minutes. :)
Should be interesting to see which EJ we get.
I appreciate the insight, but with the small amount hes played in the last few years
At least in terms of US TV viewership opportunities, how do you know any of this is true still?
I've seen a lot of Eddie's
and Adu’s games through close circuit television over the years. I really am a soccer junkie and, particularly, a “homer” kinda guy in that I like to follow local athletes/US athletes as they expand their game. Call it a hobby and, no, I don’t have a life. I’m on disability, mobility challenged, and this is pretty much it for a hot Saturday night out! ; )
Nearly any game played in the world is available somewhere, if you’re resourceful enough to look for it or, alternatively, pay for it.
Our depth
Doesn’t seem to be taking as big a hit to me as a lot of people are implying. I’ll miss Fucito and Neagle but our depth really only takes a hit at depth in mid, assuming Eddie performs as Sigi appears to be confident he will. Assuming this gives another younger mid a roster slot, that shift in depth becomes pretty much negligible in my opinion.
Along with that, Neagle’s local product status doesn’t have as much pull for me since he doesn’t have HGP status. The fact that I’m not a local probably makes me less attached than those who are, too.
by PlasticRory on Feb 18, 2012 1:45 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm basically in 100 percent agreement
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
EJ and Sodade (I'm guessing he's the non roster player signed)
v Fucito and Neagle
Which is a deeper team?
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I tend to look at depth as a little more nuanced than two of 30 roster spots
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
but the question is in regards to this trade
they aren’t as deep now
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by Dave Clark on Feb 18, 2012 2:34 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
"Depth" is an abstraction that is confusing me
At forward we have more talent than we did on Friday morning. In midfield, we have less talent.
To the extent that Fuctio is a Best XI player, this trade has no impact on our “depth” — if that phrase means 2nd and 3rd strings. To the extent that Ochoa was a Best XI player, and is now a 2nd string player, our 2nd string is stronger at forward.
I think the only impact on our “depth” is that we are losing Neagle, who is — at best — a second string player. That’s a bummer. We like having a strong 2nd string. But now, because we got an open roster spot, we’re stronger on the 3rd/4th string.
I'll take a Win and a Loss over two Draws (3>2)
Arguably we had tremendous depth last season and continue to be able to run out a strong team when “starters” are unavailable. Clearly this trade is about giving the First XI a higher top end, and in a salary cap league that probably means taking a hit lower in the roster.
My guess is this is our year — we’re going for it. A number of posts have mentioned the potential of Fucito and Neagle since they’re so young and promising. Let’s say Mike is a year away from reaching his prime and Lamar is two (for argument’s sake). I don’t see the core of this squad remaining together that long and so we’d have these guys starting on a very different team in 2014, one that may be missing other essential pieces.
The thing that makes this work for me is Chris Henderson. He’s shown an aptitude for picking the right players AND he has a history with EJ. My guess is that the football minds in the FO feel very good about this risk in terms of how things will shake out on the pitch.
They may be (I’d like to think) a little less comfortable with the personal side, though they’ve shown a dispassionate professionalism in previous personnel issues and I’d bet there’s a culture in place where players and coaches know that the performance of the team comes first. I’d be surprised if the hardest part of this transaction for them is knowing what our reaction would be and not whether EJ will be a high-performing target forward for SSFC.
by CityDrew on Feb 19, 2012 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think that take discounts...
the additions of Sivebaek and Cato…both of whom overlap Neagle positionally. Neagle rarely played anywhere but wing. Are you really concerned about depth at wing? (that’s a serious question, btw…I’m always interested in your opinion).
they were already on the team
this trade dust change that
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by Dave Clark on Feb 18, 2012 2:35 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
..that is more or less my point.
We had not only depth at that position, but excess depth…and letting Neagle go doesn’t leave us lacking depth at his position. Letting Fucito go is a matter or preference rather than depth, as EJ replace him AT his position. So…yes this leaves us less deep on the wing…but I think anyone here would agree that it was the position where we could MOST afford to sacrifice a bit of depth. We were arguably TOO deep there (and yes, there is such a thing). When you sit down and create the depth chart as it now exists…do you say to yourself…man…we’re in trouble on the wing?
by exSlacker on Feb 18, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Right
This trade certainly almost decreases our depth, which was the question originally debated.
The important question is whether that was depth we needed or ‘excess’ depth, or even better, whether losing that depth was worth the possible boost to our starting XI.
by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 1:55 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
certainly almost = almost certainly. oops.
by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 1:56 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Replacing Fucito with Johnson
Is swapping forward for forward. No change to depth there assuming similar performance. Regardless, that isn’t the area where we are supposedly losing depth. That would be the loss of a wide mid.
My argument isn’t that depth is not affected. I just wouldn’t consider this much of a loss. Since Neagle may have been dropping in the depth charts to begin with, it isn’t as big of a hit. Take into account the opening for another player, possibly at a position where we need it more (not that I’d go so far as to suggest where that might be), and it becomes more or less a wash.
So, to summarize, depth IS affected. But to me it is more a shift of depth than a loss of it.
by PlasticRory on Feb 19, 2012 4:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
To add to that...
The addition of a roster spots means one more young player. He may hopefully be as good as Neagle although we won’t know for quite a while.
Red herring?
Dave I really respect you and I appreciate the article you wrote. however I think this argument is a red herring. Before the move there were 28 guys signed including OBW, so Sodade and Duran could be added w/o having to move anyone. This move created space to add another slot. Of the guys in camp that’s pretty much down to Rose Caskey, Gutierres, right?. Alternatively it may be a new trialist or converted to AM. That’s why I think your proposed equation doesn’t represent what’s really going on.
Rather than look at this move in isolation, wait until the roster is set and then we can argue about which one has more depth.
or to put it a different way:
Gspurning + Weber+ Johannson + Duran + Burch + Cato + Sivebaek + Johnson + Sodade + returning Zakuani + any other additions
vs.
Keller +Boss + Riley + Graham + Wahl + Montano + Neagle + Fucito + Jaqua + Noonan + Friberg + any other departures
Which is the deeper team?
by PhootieD on Feb 18, 2012 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I am saying this deal hurt depth
I am not saying the team lacks depth
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by Dave Clark on Feb 18, 2012 2:36 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
let's say it does hurt depth
This was a move to put together a starting 11 that can beat LA, to win the MLS cup.
I’m not necessarily saying it will, but I agree with the goal.
And I’ll hand it to Hanauer. The guy has got a pair to go for a trade like this with all the inherent risk.
by PeterJH on Feb 18, 2012 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems like the Sounders were willing to take a loss in depth at the 3rd string in a strong position to improve a weak positions the first string.
"The fans are excited. And the stadium, well, it ignites with explosion."
Salary
Can someone say where they saw the $100k figure for his salary? I can’t find where it originated from and am wondering if that is a true figure or just a guesstimate.
I thought that quote was from Henderson
During his interview on KJR yesterday, something about a “great value at $100K.”
@Emerald_Sounder
I thought Steven Goff also reported that figure
But this is all I can find
Eddie Johnson has signed with #MLS. As an ex #usmnt player, subject to allocation. Rapids planning to claim him. 1 other team interested
— Steven Goff (@SoccerInsider) February 16, 2012
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
was just about to post this, thanks
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know where I read it...
but I read in multiple places (but perhaps from the same source) that it’s $100k this year with a club option at $150k next year. I suspect that EJ, after going to Greece where he made the team, played, but didn’t get paid for 6 months…then going to Peubla that that drama drama where they disparaged his fitness and pace (which is HUGE for him, as he relies on both)…is probably just psyched to get a reliable check from a team that is excited to have him in a city where his wife and kids can be happy.
"wife and kids can be happy"
uhhh… are you referring to this:
http://www.socceramerica.com/article/43187/eddie-johnsons-wife-arrested.html
The wife of Eddie Johnson, who has made 42 U.S. national team appearances and played in the 2006 World Cup, was accused of ramming her Jeep Cherokee into Johnson’s rental car after seeing him at a Palm Coast hotel with a woman, according to a deputy’s report.
According to a report from the Sheriff’s Office, which was called about 3:30 a.m. Tuesday to the Hampton Inn near State Road 100 and Interstate 95, Janelle Johnson received a call from a friend that her husband was at the Hampton Inn. She drove there early on Tuesday with their child in her white Jeep Cherokee. She said she spotted her husband’s rented red Chevy Camaro parked in the rear of the hotel and tried to call him but he did not answer his phone.
Janelle Johnson told deputies that she saw her husband walking with a woman and “became upset.” Eddie Johnson said he was in an upstairs room at the Hampton Inn when his wife rammed the rented Camaro.
Win or lose, we'll always be there for you.
by johnjahafanclub on Feb 18, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Ugh
I’d forgotten about that. Worst part of that story is that his kid was in the car when she used it for a battering ram.
What's most telling about this...
…is that EJ, in his PR rounds last night, claimed that part of the reason for his poor showing in Europe was that he was away from his wife and children. I guess his effectiveness is reduced when he can only cheat on them from a distance, instead of up close and personal? Wottaguy!
by regnaD kciN on Feb 18, 2012 5:44 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Look at the English national team
If marital infidelity is any indication of one’s ability to be an effective footballer I’ll take a team full of cheaters (kidding.) We’re all human; as long as he isn’t getting in trouble with the law or making the club look bad I really don’t care what he does in his personal life. A new setting can do wonders for a player/person. As others have pointed out, he seems to have grown up a bit (professionally) since he left for Fulham. He knows who he is replacing and the expectations that come with it. He played his best for Chris Henderson, I’m confident he can be a guy who has a significant impact for us this year.
@Emerald_Sounder
by Disco_Stew on Feb 18, 2012 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry, can't agree
I want to like the players I cheer for. I want to respect them. Infidelity hurts people. If he pulled an emotional Mullan he deserves the disdain Brian earned with his actions. On the other hand, I don’t like to convict people on less-than-complete evidence, so without inside knowledge I’m going to give Eddie the benefit of the doubt. At the very least the evidence shows he wants to care for his family right now, and that I do respect.
by asimismo on Feb 18, 2012 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's understandable
But, like you said, we don’t know the full details. On the surface it looks like both of them have their issues. I am not one to judge and since nothing like that has happened since I can only assume they’ve worked out whatever issues they have.
I just think it’s kind of a low blow to bring that up. If he broke the law I would probably have a lesser opinion of him but I won’t discount him based on one incident during probably his lowest point (professionally speaking.)
@Emerald_Sounder
You (and several others here, apparently) are missing my point...
I’m saying nothing about expecting marital fidelity from top professional athletes — if we required Boy Scout behavior as a condition for playing in the major leagues, we’d have mostly real Boy Scouts playing in those leagues. The issue, rather, is honesty…professional honesty. In his introduction to Seattle fans, Johnson tried to convince us his failure in Europe was really because he was away from his family. What a touching notion! But then, of course, we find out that he’s not exactly the family man he tried to paint himself as to Seattle fans, someone who would be so concerned about their absence he apparently lost the ability to play quality football because of it the past five years. Maybe there might be another explanation for his decline — like him being over-the-hill or losing a key part of his ability? I’d like to see a professional athlete who faces up to and deals with his shortfalls, instead of doing a P.R. song-and-dance about missing his family. It’s almost like the baseball player who muffed a ground ball, and then explained it as “I lost it in the sun.”
I understood your point just fine
However it’s irrelevant to his ability to play soccer for our team. You have no idea what went on during his European stint any more than we do; playing halfway around the world with the pressure of the EPL isn’t a cake walk. I wouldn’t expect him to say, “Yeah Seattle fucked up. I’m done, only an idiot would have traded for me.” If you just want an excuse to hate the guy that’s fine, but don’t mask it some sort of concern for the character of athlete we bring in here. Both Montero and Jaqua faced some pretty serious accusations, in my opinion far worse than infidelity, but most people will forgive and forget.
@Emerald_Sounder
Dude, be nice!
He’s our alleged cheater, now.
I know what's in that Sherrif's report...
…but, as I said above, I’m less concerned with his private peccadilloes than with him using a P.R.-friendly B.S. “family man” excuse for his decline in form since 2007.
You're saying he's not a family man
based on that Sherrif’s report. You are inferring that they have a poor marriage or he is a poor husband. That they did not have a good marriage while he was in Europe. You are ignoring that it was his wife that was arrested, and it was her story that she saw him with a woman at the hotel.
You know little, other than that his wife was arrested and claimed that she saw him at a hotel with another woman. Cheating is bad, but plenty of marriages get past it and move on. I’d suggest you reserve judgment before you know more of what actually happened. As far as I know, they are still married today. Or do you think that’s just a PR-friendly mirage that he’s putting on?
Is it so hard to believe...
That two things might be true: That he missed his family while he was in Europe and he also was something less than a perfect husband?
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 18, 2012 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
Or that he was something less than a perfect husband, saw the error of his ways and became a better husband?
Which in turn made his marriage better and something he was more likely to miss?
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 18, 2012 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I look at this as selling while their value is high
Neagle came out of no where last year, if not for Zakuani’s injury who knows if we would have played much outside of USOC and spot starts in league play. Fucito, while I loved his work rate and tenacity, was not the forward who would get us to the promised land. In short, I see why the FO made the deal. They were able to see what EJ can do and felt his upside would have more of an impact than Neagle/Fucito.
Who knows how long we can keep all our pieces here, we need to win now and they felt EJ gives us the best shot at doing that.
@Emerald_Sounder
by Disco_Stew on Feb 18, 2012 1:52 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Part of this decision...
is related (in my opinion) to the fact that this is first year where we are looking at having to cut multiple players that we REALLY WANT TO KEEP in order to satisfy MLS Roster rules. Even now, we’re looking at having to jettison some real talent. I’m looking forward to S@H’s revised roster battle sheet. I have a really good feeling about Cato and Rose. If we find that cutting Neagle has led to a need for additional depth on either wing (which it won’t…we’re stacked on the outside), we can always call in Ngassa for a go.
If I’m Tetteh, I’m psyched…he was riding the bubble big time…he still is, but his chances have definitely improved. If I’m OBW, I’m more worried than ever. I would think Josh Ford is in big trouble with his injury. Weber or Meredith would almost have to give the Sounders a reason to cut them right now (I’m assuming Blais is just there to keep sharp and keep Ezra out of goal).
What are your thoughts?
The big winners in camp right now have to be Tetteh and Estrada
Tetteh has really looked more like a natural winger and this move opens up some room for him to try to land a back-up spot there during the season. The extra roster spot has to help Estrada as a an versatile all-rounder that the couches clearly want to keep around.
I think the other player that has to be worried is Babayele Sodade. He looks a lot like a project in the mold of Eddie Johnson. An all around athlete with size and speed. Do the Sounders want to keep a project player around that mimics so much of what they just traded an arm and a leg for?
On the other hand,
Maybe that’s exactly why they signed Johnson, so that when Sodade is ready to step up, they’ve been playing in a system that fits him for three years.
That’s not really worded the way I want it, but I think the point is clear.
What would you have them do about it?
And I don’t mean this argumentatively, I am actually wondering. Open the salary cap up a bit more?
honestly, it wasn't really a criticism of the MLS Roster Rules...
I understand why they do things they way that they do. I also understand that, when making a change, they try to err on the side of caution. Not all of the league is in the situation that the Cascadia teams are in. There are still an handful of teams that could be sunk by a bad and financially costly league decision. New stadiums in KC and Houston, both of whom already were on fairly solid ground, should give those teams the foundation and infrastructure that they need to take their next steps. San Jose desperately needs their new stadium to become reality. Even the Revs are finally at least floating rumors about possible locations.
Prefaced by all of the above, I would like to see the league be slightly more aggressive raising the overall cap as we turn the corner collectively. I’d like to see rosters expanded out to 33 (3×11) and I’d like to see the league aggressively pursue a formalized structure in which reserve teams are a part of the lower divisions, include players from the 33, and play more often. Those are just some thoughts off the top of my head.
Overall, I’m not unhappy with the restraint the league has shown regarding controlling the growth of the league, so long as they have an eye on more agressive growth soon – as soon as that growth can be supported.
Speaking of which:
What’s MLS thinking, continuing to keep teams from having three-deep at every position?
Allocation priority
Is there a simple rule for why the non-US MLS teams (Vanc, Tor & Mont) get a shot at returning US players? And is the rule the same for any US MLS teams regarding returning Canadian players?
the allocation order rule applies to returning MLS players
or usmnt. that’s just what it is
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by Dave Clark on Feb 18, 2012 2:39 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Except
when they decide to have a lottery. And almost when they decide to give NY a player….
And it’s not entirely clear what level USMNT counts – U17s? U20s? U23s?
by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 2:26 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Returning Canadians
Are not subject to allocation. Any team can have them.
by James Bray on Feb 18, 2012 2:39 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I would imagine that in a single entity league like MLS
not allowing the Canadian teams into the allocation would be an unfair competitive disadvantage that just wouldn’t hold up.
In regards to the salary question
I’ve also heard the $100,000 salary and believe EJ is probably a very good signing at that amount. I just did a quick analysis of forwards making between $75,000 – $125,000 last year.
I was going to fanpost it, but I couldn’t get the table to work. So, its on the website, but hard to find. If you’re interested you can find it by following this link
You are right - he will be a great value if we get 1.0+ PP90 AND requisite minutes
Looking at his MLS career stats, I am more worried about whether he can stay on the field, physically and mentally. If so,the points will come. Three of EJ’s MLS years would have put him near or at the top of your PP90 for sub $125k players:
2007 1.5 PP90
2002 1.4
2001 1.4
2004 1.1
2005 0.9
In ’02 and ’01 he played very limited minutes (589 over two years) as Dallas brought him on slowly. In ’07 and ’04, he played over 2,000 minutes each year. In ’05 he was hurt much the year but still produced.
The problem is that sandwiched in there are two other years:
2003 0.4 PP90 (1,262 min)
2006 0.3 PP90 (1,480 min)
For comparison, last year Fucito produced 0.5 PP90 and Neagle 1.1 PP90 over 2,053 combined minutes.
If we get something near the Good Eddie in production (say 1.0 PP90) AND in minutes (say 1,500+), this will be seen as having been a VERY good trade for us. Otherwise . . .
by TGos on Feb 18, 2012 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
This is basically my thinking
But you actually bothered to do the math and analysis. Thanks!
Addition by subtraction
For a team with strong successes in the regular season and Lamar Hunt US Open Cup, the loss of depth could be significant.
In context, this almost reads as if we’ve traded away all of our roster depth. Very doomsday’ish. I just don’t see it that way. At forward, the depth remained exactly the same, but the quality (very likely) received a big boost. At midfield, we lost a 3rd stringer on the outside. Nagel, baring several injuries, likely would have only started some USOC and CCL group stage matches at best this season and may have been in the 18 for some league matches. Despite some flashes of briliance mingled in with average play last season, I think the rest of the roster has progressed past than him, moving him down the pecking order. Sivebæk and Zakuani are the players now ahead of him that weren’t available last season. So while depth may have taken a hit, I think it’s quite limited in reality and we’re still better off than last season.
As far as our resources available to aquire talent (and create more depth), we appear to have taken at most a $21,000 hit on our remaining cap space with this transaction. It’s been reported by Steve Goff that Johnson will make $100,000 this year. Fucito and Neagle combined for $74,604 in salary last season, so assuming a 5% raise for each per the CBA, they would have made $78,334 this season. If they had more lucrative options in the waining years of either of their contracts, then the cap hit from this trade is actually less.
Hanaur has indicated in several interviews (1 and 2 examples) that any further significant changes to the roster were going to have to be “addition by subtraction” In this case, I think that’s exactly what happened. In the end, I think we lost very little in terms of cap space and depth-in-hand, and I think we filled a need that’s been obvious to many for quite some time. Perhaps Ochoa was going to be able to fill that need, but having 2 possibilities for big, quick starting forwards that can be serious scoring threats increases the likelyhood of success.
My definition of success here is a lineup where team’s can’t key on one player (Fredy) and essentially gum up our entire offense enough to frustrate most scoring opportunities. Now they’ll have to focus first on our dangerous TF (either Johnson or Ochoa) and then Fredy will come as a second attacker and have more room to work with. Mauro, Sivebæk, Flaco, and/or Zakuani will work the ball in from the wings to 2 major scoring threats. I personally believe Fredy will do a lot better in that situation and, if I’m right, will have his best year with the Sounders yet. We probably will be saying goodbye to him after this season.
This comment, written less than 24 hours before the Johnson trade, summed up my thoughts/expecations on the Sounders offseason perfectly. We can now check #4 off that list and stick a fork in the winter transfer window. Time to go win 2+ championships this season (choose 2 of MLS Cup, USOC, CCL, and/or SS).
I feel that this is only a taste of what next years off season will be like.
Strictly from a salary and perspective I suspect that this is only a precursor to even more roster churn after the end of this year. The “tyranny” of the MLS Salary Cap when combined with the current CBA where experienced players get guaranteed raises, plus already negotiated contract increases for current player, likely means that we will have just as much turnover, if not more, between the the 2012 and 2013 seasons.
A consequence of this is that the Sounders FO must constantly winnow out players they feel have reached top of their potential development as a player or have come close to their potential.
I really appreciated the commitment and contribution that Mike Fucito and Lamar Neagle brought to the team both as individuals and how they played on the field. However, based upon the last two years of watching them play, I was coming to the conclusion that there was not much additional upside to the development of their game and that it was unlikely they would ever seriously be thought of as automatic starters amongst the current collection of Sounders players.
Whereas, Eddie Johnson certainly has the potential to be considered as a legitimate starter if he can return to the form of his past. The trade for Eddie Johnson can be argued to make sense if we assume that both Mike Fucito and Lamar Neagle have come close topping out skill wise.
Looking at the trade from this perspective, it should also be viewed as a salary cap trade for this year as well as giving a head start on the likely Salary Cap roster churn coming after the season ends. The Sounders FO needed to off load enough salary so that they would come reasonably close to the salary commitment they took on with Eddie Johnson’s contract while still keeping a small amount of room under the salary cap for any acquisition opportunities that may present themselves during the season.
The complexities of the MLS Salary Cap and how it is affected by Designated Players, Allocation Money and how the current CBA affects player salaries makes me wonder if Adrian Hanauer and the Sounders FO have a not to be talked about employee hidden behind locked doors whose sole job description is to act as the teams unofficial “MLS Capologist”.
If Fucito had scored
8 goals with 5 assists would that have been a good enough year to show that he was still developing?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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"If" is a powerful word.
What you posit here is what could have happened, but the “if” part of it did not happen.
If Mike Fucito had scored 8 goals and 5 assists during the 2011 MLS season, then the trade most certainly would not have happened. Scoring 8 goals and 5 assists would have also meant that he would have either been on the protected list for the second year in a row or he would have been drafted by Montreal in the expansion draft.
Instead, Mike Fucito as a Forward in 2011 had 2 Goals and 2 Assists playing 21 games against other MLS teams, 14 as a starter. I freely admit that I could be wrong, but in my opinion, as long as the Sounders play with two Forwards they need to have better numbers than that from the other starting Forward spot opposite Fredy Montero. The Front Office likely had the same feeling and didn’t see it changing for the better, which is why there were willing to trade Mike Fucito.
Best case scenario is Edddie Johnson returns to his old form and improves the Forward position. Worst case is that he is no better that Mike Fucito, in which case we are back to where we were regarding the Forward position if we still had Mike Fucito.
There seem to be two trains of thought amongst Sounders fans regarding Mike Fucito. There are those who think that he is still a diamond in the rough who is going to get better and have a breakout year and those who think that his star had peaked. I respect that you are still in the camp that thinks that Mike Fucito will grow into the player we all wish and hope he can be. Reluctantly, I’ve come to the conclusion that the probability of that happening is not very high.
2010 vs. 2011 Expansion Draft Protected List
I will also add that Mike Fucito not being on the protected list for the 2011 Expansion Draft, when he was on the protected list during the 2010 Expansion Draft can now be viewed as a telling indicator on how the team viewed his potential.
They likely felt that the foot injury and the limited appearances he had in the 2010 season held him back enough that they protected him based upon the potential that they felt he had at that time. That he was not on the list of protected players for the 2011 Expansion Draft I feel is strong indicator that his body of work during the 2011 season did not justify the same treatment.
Except that Seattle pulled a trade to prevent Montreal from taking Fucito
after mistakenly leaving him exposed. So there’s hole one you your theory.
You also ignore non-MLS play. I will always refuse to do that. If Fucito played Jaqua minutes in 2011 at his 2011 performance he was an 8/5 guy. The team lost two forwards that early in 2011 blocked Fucito’s performance.
As for injuries limiting Fucito’s time. They have someone with a similar injury riddled past replacing him
Best case scenario is Edddie Johnson returns to his old form
Less than 6 goals a year in MLS? or the Form that is less than 5 goals a year for his career?
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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This is absurd
“In context, this almost reads as if we’ve traded away all of our roster depth. Very doomsday’ish. I just don’t see it that way”
The context was quite clear. It is about a two for one trade. Nothing more.
“At forward, the depth remained exactly the same, but the quality (very likely) received a big boost”
EJ’s average goalscoring over his career is Fucito-esque. Why is it very likely that EJ is better? Why isn’t it just as likely that he’s what he’s always been?
“Perhaps Ochoa was going to be able to fill that need, but having 2 possibilities for big, quick starting forwards” Ochoa isn’t fast. Let’s quit pretending he is.
I personally think the Supporters Shield and US Open Cup are more remote today than yesterday, but if the Brain Trust is correct than the CCL and MLS Cup are more likely.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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What do we, as fans, want?
It seems like every Sounders fan is about ready to win an MLS Cup, and this trade certainly makes it more likely that we will win the MLS Cup. The CCL is supposedly the biggest thing out there, and we’re more likely to win that. Sounders fans need to realize that we can’t build a dynasty and win 4 competitions. It just isn’t going to happen. I, for one, would rather win an MLS Cup than a USOC. Am I alone in that? Because with all the dislike for this trade, and the depth issue, it seems like fans care less about the MLS Cup than they claim they do, or at least less than they said so a couple weeks ago.
Eddie Johnson doesn't make this true
this trade certainly makes it more likely that we will win the MLS Cup
If he repeats the best season of his career it will be true, but EJ at his career averages is an average MLS forward.
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...and Mike Fucito is a below average MLS forward.
Even in the shadow of your pessimism, EJ still provides an upgrade to the attack.
Eddie Johnson's MLS career
has more seasons at or below Fucito quality than he does above it.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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By that standard,
Mike Fucito has spent his entire career below Fucito quality. If you’re trying to tell me that Fucito is a better forward than Eddie Johnson, just say it. Otherwise, your point is moot. Eddie Johnson at his mean is an upgrade over Fucito at his peak and his demonstrated upside far exceeds anybodies’ expectations for Fucito’s career. Fucito is a player limited by size and skill whether you like it or not.
All i've ever said is that I think that Fucito is more likely to be an average MLS forward in 2012
Eddie Johnson is more likely to be great forward in 2012, but he’s also more likely to be bad.
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That pretty much sums up this debate, IMO
We traded two average players for one possibly great, possible bust player. It’s a risk, but since the staff has experience with EJ and have seen him training recently in FL, it’s at least an informed risk. I hope it works out.
To be considered a success, I think EJ is going to have to put up better than average #s. In a lot of ways, he has, I think, a lot of the expectations fans reserve for a DP on his shoulders because of the USMNT tag and what was traded to get him. I’m hoping for at least 8/5 from him and hopefully more.
Goals and assists per season
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Regarding Cap Space
You forget that Neagle and Fucito didn’t cost us anything against the cap. They were off-cap players (roster spots 21-30). Fucito was possibly going to be in the top 20, depending on how things worked out, but Neagle wasn’t. So really, the additional cap hit is maybe around $55k.
by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 2:33 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
If this EJ fella
scores needed goals, especially early in the season, this trade by the FO could go down as an even more legendary move than leaving “Sounders” off the initial naming ballot
Excited about the odds of Mauro's majestic crosses
being met by Sounder heads going way up with this deal.
Concerns about Depth
as a result of losing Neagle and Fucito seem to have forgotten that Cato is a newcomer that could fill in for Neagle. After seeing Neagle play last year, I’m definitely willing to try someone with more technical skills and speed a chance at showing their potential. Cato has been having a strong preseason, and I’m sure his raw potential has lots to speak about when it comes to trading Neagle. Just as the Sounder at Heart staff did player analysis earlier this winter, Neagle did a good job filling a hole created by Zakuani’s injury, but as someone on the bench as a third option for the left wing position, dont forget to look at where he lies in the depth chart.
Fucito, albeit one of the hardest working players on the team, found an opportunity to shine last year when the players above him in the pecking order were OBW, Jaqua and Levesque. He was already riding pretty far back on the pine… and while he showed us a glimpse of his work ethic, with limited technical skills and a strategic mind to see the big picture in plays, we’ve seen three years of potential with him now, and while I’m always going to be a Fucito fan, I welcome the opportunity to bring on a striker with greater potential for the risk involved.
Soccer is simple, but it is difficult to play simple.
by Nathan Salmon on Feb 19, 2012 8:35 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
My Distilled View
Very late to the discussion, but my thoughts in a nutshell are:
1. We lost minimal “depth” due to the addition of Sivebaek and pending return of Zakuani (who covers for loss of Neagle); addition of EJ inherently negates any “loss” of Mike Fucito at forward.
2. This is a bargain deal with little FINANCIAL risk; at $100K, this guy could become the best value forward in the league. No other player at that pay scale has the potential to score 15 goals this season. The risk is purely one of PR, as the FO will look poor in fan’s eyes if EJ does not meet expectations. But realistically, in terms of loss of “depth” and financial risk, there is little to none.
3. People, especially some of those in this online community, are drinking too much cool-aid. If you think Fucito is better than EJ, you’re either blinded by emotion of just plain uneducated about soccer. The response from many fans has been too emotional, and not driven by a realistic assessment of the facts. Yes, there is risk. But the potential for reward is immense.
4. True, EJ hasn’t produced an impressive season in years, but he also has been playing at a higher level than MLS and dealt with a number of personal issues. My biggest concern is his mentality. If he can recover mentally, be motivated, and get fit, this could be a massive coup.
5. Lastly, this move is about making us a better “top end” performer. If EJ does pan out, we have instantly added a player who will make our offense that much more dynamic and difficult to defend for the Galaxy and CCL opponents. This could be a move that puts the team over the top and provides the edge required to get past the Gals and make a run at MLS Cup.
So here’s to hoping the risk isn’t realized, but that EJ’s recovery of form is. It could be the difference maker this roster needs.
Point by point
1 – Sivebaek was already on the team. That means that the team could lose a wide midfielder, but there is now a widemid with less skill than Neagle getting Neagle’s minutes.
2 – Omar Cummings disagrees.
3 – No one said that Fucito is better than Eddie Johnson. Throwing insults at people who think this was a bad trade doesn’t change that. A majority of national writers think it’s a bad deal. They have no emotional attachment to Fucito.
4 – He has more concerns than his failures at Cardiff and PNE and Fulham.
5 – I agree.
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Agree to Disagree
1 – I don’t think anyone knows just how good Sivebaek is, but I’d bet good money that letting Neagle go in this deal was largely influenced by how impressed the FO is with Sivebaek to date. It sounds like he has been one of the most impressive players in preseason, so I wouldn’t assume that he is a downgrade from Neagle—in fact, he may yet prove to be an upgrade.
2 – Good point, Omar Cummings is good value. But like EJ, he hasn’t exactly been consistent. In a reduced role last year (injuries, etc), he scored 3 goals.
3 – I have heard people imply that Fucito is “as good” as EJ. That is flat wrong. Different players, but also in different universes in terms of overall quality/skill/technique.
4 – Not sure what you mean above.
5 – Well, at least we agree on something! :)
It's arguable that Johnson hasn't produced an acceptable season since 2007
Let alone impressive. I guess his season with Aris could qualify, but other than that he’s been horrible.

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