Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Depth Chart: 3 XIs - Don't Let Me Down

Halfway through their preseason the Seattle Sounders shook up the old depth charts quite a bit. It isn't just about the trade for Eddie Johnson (after which Sigi basically confirmed a return to big/small forward pairing), but there are talents better than expected who are rocketing up in our perception. Some are also falling. This is our current best guess of Sigi Schmid's vision of the depth chart. It is based on an ideal First XI where "if there was a must win today and everyone who is healthy is fit?"

That ideal doesn't exist in reality, but it gives us a bit of an image of where things stand. Moving up the chart are Christian Sivebaek, Patrick Ianni, Bryan Meredith, David Estrada, and Marc Burch. If Seattle plays in 40 or so games Sivebaek could have 35+ appearances, even if only a dozen or so starts. His skill set is pretty unique and really the only question is about adaptation to physical play. Ianni seems to be used more like he was in 2010, rather than his 2011 down year. Meredith is a young keeper beating out a vet. Estrada's preseason impresses more every week and his make/break year could raise league wide judgements of Schmid, et al's college talent evaluation. Burch had a bad rap coming from D.C. United, but his skills may translate better to the Seattle system. He's better in the attack and should see more time than previously thought.

Falling down the chart either from lack of fitness to play in training games or just flat getting beat out by players with more 2012 upside are a mix of older and younger players. Sammy Ochoa, even before the trade, was losing playing time and now looks to get even less. Michael Tetteh is rarely seeing the pitch. Babayele Sodade is in the same situation and at best is the 3rd target forward and overall may not start even in a Reserve heavy match. Two veterans aren't getting long looks and are in their post-peak period so it isn't a surprise that Zach Scott and Roger Levesque's playing time in training is on a downward trend. They are known quantities and at this point both are expected to be in a gameday 18.

Let's review the structure. The title of the post is a play on 311. Don't read too much into it, maybe a little though. The top half is the role at which we see the player getting the most starting minutes in competitive (non Reserve) play. It also now shows players in bold who would be in that ideal 18. Players in orange are currently injured and not training fully (Steve Zakuani is on the edge of leaving this status). The lower portion is ranking of players in roles with regards to flexibility. Bold is an indicator that said player would be a starter in that role on a majority of MLS sides. Standard script means that the player could start in secondary competitions on a team with a chance to win. Italics means they would be a reserve role or emergency usage. There is a also a table showing a short list of possible Homegrown Player signings. These are roughly ranked, but primarily it is a list of names so you can get use to these names, and maybe see them play for Sounders U23s.

Star-divide

Johnson

Ochoa

Montero

Sodade

Estrada

Fernandez

White

Cato

Rosales

Zakuani

Sivebaek

Levesque

Evans

Seamon

Caskey

Gonzalez

Alonso

Johansson

Burch

Carrasco

Scott

Tetteh

Rose

Sanyang

Hurtado

Parke

Duran

Ianni

Gspurning

Harlinton

Meredith

Weber

Ford

Injured List: Total On Roster: 33
Injured
Zakuani

Depth by Role

White Forwards Wide Mids Center Mids Full Backs Center Backs Keeper
Ford Montero Rosales Alonso Johansson Parke Gspurning
Johnson Zakuani Evans Gonzalez Hurtado Meredith
Ochoa Fernandez Fernandez Burch Ianni Weber
White Sivebaek Carrasco Scott Scott Ford
Rosales Estrada Rosales Duran Duran
Estrada Evans Seamon Sanyang Burch
Sivebaek Cato Rose Levesque Harlinton
Cato Levesque Estrada Estrada Sanyang
Levesque Caskey Caskey Sivebaek
Sodade Tetteh Sanyang Tetteh
Potential HGP: Okoli Kovar Palodichuk Yedlin Lange Herman
Jones Cox Peterson Gallagher
Dismuke

Readers should quickly notice that there are only 33 players in camp. If the Sounders wanted to they could move all three injured players to the disabled list (injured reserve, injured list) and start the season without cutting a single player. Yes, that would mean a roster slot for Harlinton Gutierres (man of many spellings), the young Real Espana reservist. There is incentive for Seattle to have only 28 or 29 total (healthy?) players on roster as they would get some allocation money so one should expect a couple cuts, but the team may be done. Remember though, the team would only be buying time as a player on the Injured List can return after six MLS games have passed. There is also no salary cap relief for a player on either the short-term or long-term Injured List. Any replacement would be at one of the minimum salary levels.

Comment 52 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Nice to see Duran so high.

Based on the depth chart that has him as the first choice replacement for JKH I would think he’d be on the “camp risers” list. It doesn’t seem like a move made strictly out of necessity either, as we’ve seen that Scott and Leo Gonzalez can also provide depth at CB.

I may be reading too much into this, but are you saying that you think that Duran is a better choice than Scott or Gonazalez to start at CB in USOC or CCL qualification play?

by moyerLIVES on Feb 19, 2012 9:47 AM PST reply actions  

Better than Leo yes

He may not have passed Scott for playing time yet, but it more comes down to how many starts Scott has at RB.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions  

Duran

Is Duran missing from the depth by role lists?

by greygalahad on Feb 19, 2012 9:55 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

He is

I’ll fix that now

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 9:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah that's what I would have assumed as well.

And why I was surprised to see him just behind JKH on the depth chart. I’ve always really liked the idea of Scott at CB because I think his skill set fits a little better there than on the edges.

by moyerLIVES on Feb 19, 2012 10:05 AM PST up reply actions  

Zach Scott use as a man marker works wide better than in the middle

and the lack of clear depth at RB means he’ll be there a lot.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

As long as he's not having to mark overly-athletic or technical players, he's fine at RB

Unfortuantly, ‘overly-ahtletic’ or ‘technical’ describes the majority of good wide players out there.

On the positive side, inasmuch as anything can be learned from preseason games, Scott has seemed to maybe have improved his passing, which would be nice to see. I’d have less of a problem with him at RB if he was a better passer.

I also agree that I like Scott better at CB.

by Nevtelen on Feb 19, 2012 7:38 PM PST up reply actions  

He's man marked Le Toux and Shea out of games

those are damn good MLS players.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 8:08 PM PST up reply actions  

But has gotten worked by Dane Richards and Ryan Smith

He’s fine or even great in certain matchups, quite poor in others and doesnt add much offense (though a couple notes from preseason make me hope hes improved his passing.)

by Nevtelen on Feb 20, 2012 12:17 AM PST up reply actions  

Seems like a guy who's 6'3" and built

would be able to adjust to MLS physicality. Really looking forward to seeing Sivebæk play.

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 19, 2012 9:58 AM PST reply actions  

He's listed at nearly 200

that’s a pretty big (non-centerback/keeper) soccer player.

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 19, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions  

He doesn't look it in person

He’s more lanky

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Probably a product of his height, I guess

I haven’t seen him in person, but I was just looking at the listings and he’s 10 lbs more than people like Sodade, Hurtado and Parke on there.

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 19, 2012 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

Big also doesn't mean physical

see Ochoa, Sammy or Jaqua, Nate

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 11:32 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

EJ isn't on FIFA 12, noooo, ok now i hate the trade

Trade him back! Man, this guy has been out in the wilderness.

Of course Gspurning wasn’t on either. So I used the EA create a player and rated him 79, best player on the team now. I guess I was a little greedy… I’ll try not to rate EJ so high when I create him.

And with Montreal not on FIFA 12, I moved Neagle and Fucito onto the free agent list and won’t have to play against them any time.

Club World Cup Champions 2012

by seattle dude on Feb 19, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I prefer PES

PES is my game of choice and the PES stat database website is a great tool for ratings on players.

by chazz4444 on Feb 19, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions  

didn't know those, thanks

they look cool but i think it’s gonna be a while before i get bored with fifa, and i don’t have an actual gaming platform, i downloaded 12 from EA and i use 360 controllers on my win7 os, looks great, runs smooth

Club World Cup Champions 2012

by seattle dude on Feb 19, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

Ianni's role?

Dave,
Can you explain what you mean when you say “Ianni seems to be used more like he was in 2010, rather than his 2011 down year.”

Are you saying he’s back to being the third CB ahead of Scott? Do you see him getting significant starts? Early last season there was a lot of rotation between Ianni JKH and Parke, before Ianni took himself out of that rotation.

On Rose and Caskey, what are their games like? Is one more of a pure CDM and the other a B2B or something else?

by PhootieD on Feb 19, 2012 10:12 AM PST reply actions  

Yes, back ahead of Scott

Caskey is being used like Alvaro 2010, playing CM, RM and LM.
Rose is being used as a CDM and CM

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

I've really liked Seamon in training sessions I watched

So I think he’s the leading candidate for that until either Sivebaek or Zakuani unseat Fernandez.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Speaking of that

Has Fernandez or Mauro been playing in the middle at all in training?

The return of THIERRY

by Kyle Ritter on Feb 19, 2012 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

If Evans goes down for significant time

Who do you think is most likely to partner Alonso? Carrasco, Seamon, Flaco, or Rosales. I suppose your depth chart answers that as Flaco

by PhootieD on Feb 19, 2012 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Who is the current LW backup?

Dave: I understand the limitations of this style of depth chart (each player gets one position, etc), but as a practical question who do you think will sub in if Fernandez needs to sub out during the Santos game, given the above starting 11?

by Saurus on Feb 19, 2012 10:12 AM PST reply actions  

Siveback

I’m 100% certain we see Sivebaek in that game

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 10:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Dave- Do you expect the Sounders to keep White at this point?

It seems that if they release White and Gutierres, that would give them needed flexibility for unforeseen injuries or international opportunities during the Summer transfer window.

Assuming they place Zak and Ford on IR for the short-term and make no additional cuts, this makes the roster at 29 for opening day, and approximately $140k in allocation money. Despite the potential of White (and our emotional wish as fans for him to recover and excel), it seems too risky to retain him at $100k with the chance he may not contribute at all this season.

by James Owen Gallagher on Feb 19, 2012 11:10 AM PST reply actions  

Where's the 140k allocation money coming from?

An empty roster spot is 35k

If I’m the Sounders I wait until a Feb 29 medical report to make that decision. There is no reason to make it now.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 11:34 AM PST up reply actions  

on top of that

how much of that $35k are we going to see if we fill up that 30th spot 6 games into the season? Do they prorate it, do we get nothing, or do we get it all just for starting with 29 active? I can’t see us relying on allocation money from open roster spots unless we get it all just for starting the season down players.

by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 12:53 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

$100k that would be allocated to White + the $35k open roster spot

The ~$100k that has been/would be allocated to White + the $35k open roster spot is how I came up with $140k.

by James Owen Gallagher on Feb 19, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

also... of course the Sounders would want to make the decision at the very last possible minute

also… of course the Sounders would want to make the decision at the very last possible minute. I was just asking what you are hearing and what your opinion is regarding White.

by James Owen Gallagher on Feb 19, 2012 4:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Allocation Money is different than available cap room

so I got confused.

I have no opinoin on OBW because I have no idea how he’s doing.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 5:45 PM PST up reply actions  

big/small forward pairing etc.

I keep reading this phrase in regards to the true and maybe it’s my own personal interpretation but it always seems to be used in a way to suggest predictableness or long ball play.

Yes we are going to have someone taller then Fucito up front, but our style of play is going be possession. This isn’t a big/small pairing like Nate Jaqua or even Kufo was with Montero. It’s an individual situation with individual talents. EJ is faster then all the “big forward” pairings we had. He plays with both feet, makes quicker decisions then Fucito or Jaqua ever did.

Then while this depth chart makes left mid seem like a hole, but Cato and Sivebaek can both play there just fine.

by python6114 on Feb 19, 2012 11:26 AM PST via mobile reply actions  

Big/Small has no relation to long ball play

But it isn’t just about EJ. It’s about Sigi basically saying that they wanted to move towards that system in the conference call, which I was on.

This depth chart lists the following players that can play at LM – Sivebaek, Cato, Estrada, Levesque, Rosales, Evans, Caskey and Tetteh.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

It's also about having someone on the end of crosses

I think that’s going to be vital since we have a lot of players who can swing in a good cross on the roster. Sigi has mentioned that in the quotes I’ve seen.

by Dizzo on Feb 19, 2012 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Long ball play

I’d say route 1 is more a function of midfield weakness than forward size. The tall forward is about getting a head on crosses and dead balls. Because of this, they draw coverage when we’re in the attacking third, giving others more space. Although not specifically related to his size, EJ also brings enough speed to stretch the defense when were not in the final third, which prevents a high line from clogging our midfield passing lines. That helps us play better possession ball.
We’ll still play some balls over the top, but the biggest purpose of those balls will be to discourage opponents’ defenses from playing a high line. It’s a similar strategy to using pass plays to open up the running game in astronaut football.

by foolsgambit on Feb 19, 2012 1:12 PM PST via Android app up reply actions  

Strange formation

I thought we played a 4-1-2-1-2, but on that chart it looks more like a 4-2-2-2 with the outside defenders playing up.

by Sin on Sundayz on Feb 19, 2012 5:19 PM PST reply actions  

I tend to call it Sigi's Arrow

which is similar to 4-4-2/4-2-3-1

See http://www.sounderatheart.com/2012/2/9/2787825/formations-nomenclature-statistics for more on the subject.

But Seattle certainly doesn’t play with flat backs nor do they play with a CAM in a diamond.

I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
Sounder At Heart | Follow Dave on Twitter @bedirthan

by Dave Clark on Feb 19, 2012 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

ah

That makes it hard to play them in the right formation in FIFA games lol. I’ve been using the 41212 and it works well playing zakuani up as the CAM and fernandex/rosales as the outer mids, hopefully theres a way to make it more realistic in the next fifa

by Sin on Sundayz on Feb 19, 2012 8:46 PM PST up reply actions  

You can customize on FIFA 12 pretty easily

Formation works pretty well, and you can even set up Zach Scott to man mark if you bring him in the game. You can also customize your team and player strategies.

by chrisso on Feb 20, 2012 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Sounder at Heart is a blog about the Seattle Sounders FC, with occasional forays into Democracy in Sports, Roster Management, Soccer Statistics and Life in Puget Sound. We are not the actual Sounders blog.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Twitter-icon_small
Fredy Montero with magic at the death vs. the Whitecaps part 1 (animated)
Small
On "fake turf" in Seattle, 2012 edition

Recent FanPosts

2334846872_d5a0828b89_small
The Friendly Confines of the Clink
Small
Sounders go after Drogba, yes or no?
Img957001_small
Substitute +/- Ratings
Twitter-icon_small
Fredy Montero mesmerizes Whitecaps' Joe Cannon (animated)
Acerimmer_small
Eddie Johnson Scores on Michael Gspurning? Yes indeed!
Paraguay_small
Sounders #awaysupport
Small
Andy Rose!
Small
What's our line-up vs. Dallas?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Sounder at Heart exists on Facebook - Like Us

Follow SounderAtHeart on Twitter

Sounder At Heart on Twitter

follow me on Twitter

Follow the rest of us on Twitter

Sounder At Heart (Site Feed)

Sidereal (MLS stats)

Jeremiah Oshan (top 10 soccer journalist on Twitter, Baby!)

Aaron Campeau (Villa, Mariners)

Dave Clark (beer, specfic, mideast)

Brian Floyd (all Seattle sports)

Nos Audietis (podcast stuff, snark)

Chris Coulter (photos, academy)


Managers

Tiny_dave_with_scarf_small Dave Clark

Oshan_small Jeremiah Oshan

Seattlesoccerscene_small sidereal

Nos Audietis Crew

Avatar_small Aaron Campeau

254350_1953423628277_767159_n_small dano_seattle

Authors

Img_0349_small malcontentjake

Devlin_small sum anon

Small dennyoffside

Ravelry_logo_small Abbott Smith

Special1tv_o_small Timm Higgins