Nos Audietis Episode 40: Talking Eddie Johnson Trade With Adrian Hanauer
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 19, 2012 9:12 PM PST
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As you may have heard, there was a rather big trade on Friday. Fan favorites and, more importantly, friends of the show Mike Fucito and Lamar Neagle were dealt to the Montreal Impact in exchange for Eddie Johnson. We spend a lot of time going over that one with Aaron, Dave and myself all have significantly different opinions of it (disagreement is great for radio!).
We also had a chance to pick Adrian Hanauer's brain about the deal. He explains that the Seattle Sounders have had their eyes on Johnson for quite some time and admits that he expected there to be an initial wave of negative reaction.
The show wasn't all Eddie, though. We also sat down with ECS co-president Greg Mockos and discussed some of the plans for 2012. In short, expect more big things.
The final segment we finally got around to discussing what would have been the big news of the week: Hope Solo and Sydeny LeRoux signing with the Sounders Women. And as always we answer some of your questions! To get your questions answered please make sure to follow @NosAudietis on Twitter and also, if you haven't already "Like" our Facebook Page!
One more thing: We'd like to introduce Full Pull Wines as the show's first sponsor. We're are still looking for more sponsors, now that we have a fancy new studio. If you're interested, shoot us an email at NosAudietis(at)gmail(dot)com. If you'd like to advertise on the site as well that can be arranged too.
| Download | Duration: 01:32:44
Intro Music: "Deceptive Sympathy Copyright 2006 Dano used with permission
Outro Music: "First To Stand" Copyright 2007 Dano used with permission
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Before you guys go around bashing the Greek league
Remember our presumed goalkeeper came from that league. Not sure if that is good for Johnson or bad for Gspurning…at least in terms of your sizeup…
Holy crap hive mind in full effect
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on Feb 19, 2012 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, pick whether the Greek league is appropriate pedigree or not.
Can’t have it both ways. Also, they mentioned Djibril Cisse moved from the Greek league to the Championship because he couldn’t hack it. Actually, he scored 43 goals in 61 games in Greece. Went to Lazio, where he couldn’t hack it, THEN wen’t to England.
The difference is huge.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on Feb 19, 2012 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think we said Cisse couldn't hack it in Greece...
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 19, 2012 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
My bad, that's what I took away from it...maybe referring to EJ? Not sure where I got that then.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
by AKSupporter on Feb 20, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
The point I was making was that Cisse didn't stay in Greece, because he was too good for Greece.
He’s also in the Premier League, not the Championship.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 1:29 PM PST up reply actions
We have different voices
But for perspective Greece is the 10th best league in Europe according to UEFA
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/index.html
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Which seems about right to me
And about right where the US would be (we’re not a better league than Russia or the Netherlands, but likely better than Switzerland, Austria, etc. It’s a nil point as we’ve yet to see him play in rave green (other than today’s preseason game). But I don’t think his last 4 years mean jack…so many US stars struggle for so many reasons.
Do his other MLS seasons matter or just his good ones?
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Of course they do
He was very young when he came into MLS, we have to remember. But his inconsistency is concerning. You guys said it yourselves, at worst we end up with slightly lower odds as favorites for the Open Cup, at best we end up pushing us over the top in terms of MLS Cup and CCL. It is of course a big gamble, but one the FO and many of the supporters (myself included) are willing to make given we’ve already proved ourselves in the Open Cup but have had 3 consecutive early exits in the playoffs…
Johnson had a career PP90 of .96 in MLS
When he was healthy, he was pretty good.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 19, 2012 11:36 PM PST up reply actions
Which is lower than Fucito (1.13)
or Jaqua’s last two years in all comps (1.12).
And yes I’m busy rebuilding Johnson’s non-MLS goals from his MLS era. He last scored in the Open Cup in 2004 with the Dallas Burn with two goals beating the rapids. Dallas played in 3 games and I need to find his minutes still.
In 2003 he scored in a Burn loss to Wilmington Hammerheads of the PSL.
But he didn’t score in any other years, including in a match against the USL Sounders minor league team in 2001 in which he played the full 97 minutes.
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Hater's gonna hate
I don’t think comparing “all-competitions” to MLS is fair. Nor do I think it’s fair to include his first couple seasons where he wasn’t even’t 18 yet. At the end of the day stats are interesting, but they aren’t going to tell us how well he’ll do with the Sounders. What gives me hope are the high praises he earned by Sounders staff that have previously worked with him, and things like the statement “he’s one of the best pure finishers I’ve ever seen” from our staff. All that matters is how he works with our guys in 2012…not what he did in 2002.
by dc13 on Feb 20, 2012 12:01 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He was a player then
why should we ignore that?
Should we ignore that at best Fucito is a late bloomer? No. But we also shouldn’t ignore that Johnson has a long history of injuries and fitness that prevented playing time and when he did he was only great once and good twice.
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Because Johnson was flashing dominance in MLS
while Fucito was playing college soccer. Logic would dictate that if Johnson had been in MLS all the way through his 23-25 year old seasons they would have crushed those of Fucito. If your willing to assume that Johnson peaked at 23, why are we supposed to believe Fucito is still going to dramatically develop at age 26? That’s what he would need to do to come close to the player Johnson was last time he was in MLS. It’s an unfair comparison. Fucito has no chance to be the player Johnson already has been at a younger age and has a chance to be again back in the US.
I've never claimed that Fucito will have the pro career
that Johnson will.
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So if Johnson "WILL" have a better career moving forward than Fucito
how can you fault the Sounders for upgrading their starting attack at the expense of a third string left midfielder and <75k in cap money?
As I said in the podcast
they overpaid for a peice that they felt needed.
I don’t have a problem with that. I just don’t think EJ has a recent history that indicates he’ll be a good MLS forward.
I also think it is more likely that he has a great 2012 than Fucito, but that Fucito is more likely to be average than EJ.
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by Dave Clark on Feb 20, 2012 8:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No, they won't tell us how he'll do with the Sounders
but they will tell us how he’s done in competitions that the Sounders take more seriously than you do.
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"Haters gonna hate"
is one of my least favorite cliches of all time.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I love it
It’s so ridiculous that it’s become one of those phrases I say when I’m in an argument with the boys and we are using heavy bro humor.
No disrespect to you dc13.
by chrisperry1983 on Feb 20, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah...
We get it. You think he sucks. You’re still bummed.
I don’t and I’m not. I think Fucito and Neagle were expendable, and this trade made sense to make. I think Johnson’s going to score a ton this season if he can stay healthy.
With the exception of the LB position, which is still alright, we have a really strong starting XI. I’m stoked.
I don't think he sucks
I think it’s a gamble. I think there is some history that shows he can be great and some history that shows he can be bad.
I’m more willing to bet that a younger player will get better rather than a late peak player will improve after several down years.
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Dude. Johnson's two years older.
It’s not like we traded Jozy Altidore for David Beckham.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 20, 2012 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, and two years are a long time in sports.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
Two seasons, to be exact.
But, given the two players, I’d say that we probably missed Eddie’s peak by getting him late and we missed Fucito’s peak by trading him early. Player development is weird.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 20, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's clearly not the biggest downside of the trade.
But being early-peak makes Fucito and Neagle more valuable, while being late/post-peak makes Johnson less valuable. It has to figure into the analysis of the trade to a certain extent.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Relative to their total values of course
I’m perfectly willing to believe that Johnson post peak is better than Fucito and Neagle at their peak
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 20, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
We are constantly calling 26-30 year olds peak players
I think his point here is that the age difference still puts him in his peak period.
by chrisperry1983 on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Well, you could interpret my point that way
My point was more that the age gap wasn’t as dramatic as everyone was claiming, at least as they were claiming in my eyes.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 20, 2012 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah totally agree
I was replying to Aaron regarding two years is a long time in sports, (which it is) and those else who keeps calling him old.
by chrisperry1983 on Feb 20, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
Late peak?
Look around the league. Most of the best offensive players in MLS are older than Eddie Johnson, often times by quite a few years. Being 27 years old doesn’t mean late peak, it’s right in the meat of many players’ primes.
In fact, the players that are young and have Johnson's upside
are expected to leave the league in most cases. In Johnson the Sounders have found a player who through his experiences abroad could conceivably appreciate the MLS a lot more than a younger talent and show it in the form of loyalty to the league even if he returns to stardom.
Name the returnee to MLS that left pre-peak
and came back post-peak successfully.
Just one.
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,,,and I'm not quite sure I understand the question.
Is Johnson post-peak already? I’d say that’s extremely debatable if that’s what you’re saying.
peak age for forwards
is probably 24-27
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Funny you should say that...
Joe-Max Moore actually did this. I’m preparing a story.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 20, 2012 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Frankie Hejduk
is another. Left at 24 for Germany and came back at 29.
by Colin Johnson on Feb 20, 2012 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hejduk would be the first
Moore wasn’t a difference maker when he came back.
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He was when he played
four goals and nine assists in about 1400 minutes.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 21, 2012 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
A known injury history coming back and remained injured
IF that parallel happens here would this be a success?
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not a success
if you are assuming both that fucito would remain unhurt himself (lol?) as well as out perform EJ (conjecture)
unless you are willing to admit the high probability that fucito gets hurt and scores but 2 goals in league with lots of opportunity, you can pretty much say anything that any replacement forward does is moot
Sounders play in more competitions now
than Dallas played in during Johnson’s time there. That creates more opportunities for all-competitions goals. The more Fucito played in MLS matches, the more his all competitions PP90 fell.
by Randy Meeker on Feb 20, 2012 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd say the most MLS relevant season is the most recent one
Unless you’re just hell bent on insisting that Eddie Johnson is complete crap.
But that’s what I gather from the semi-coherent, disjointed blather on this podcast.
Rather than discuss whether this trade was insane or totally insane, why not discuss why it is that a significant percentage of neutral observers (ie, people without man crushes on Fucito and Neagle) see this as a clear good move by the Sounders’ front office?
by WendellGee on Feb 20, 2012 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm not so sure that's remotely true...
I’ve seen plenty of neutral observers call this a bad trade. I’m willing to believe it will work out and actually think it’s a decent gamble, but the plain truth is that EJ is four year removed from his last really good year. He’s been mediocre-to-awful at every stop since then. I honestly can’t blame anyone for being skeptical.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 20, 2012 8:50 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think I'm more annoyed...
… at the people who can’t step back and see this as at least a decent gamble. Neagle and Fucito had fine seasons, but they were both inconsistent. EJ is clearly talented, and has EPL and national team experience. Hard to argue he’s not an upgrade from Fucito, even if he struggled over in Europe.
And if people are bummed about giving Neagle away, it’s not as if he was going to play that much this season anyway. Not with the emergence of Sivebaek, and Zak coming back.
Just because people don't agree that this isn't a decent gamble
doesn’t mean they haven’t “stepped back” or been thorough in their examinations of the trade. There is plenty of room for disagreement.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, there is.
I was simply referring to people (and they’re out there) who let their emotions over losing two of their favorites get in the way of their ability to be analytically objective.
Some people are acting as if Eddie Johnson is terrible, and Fucito and Neagle were going to play a huge role in leading this team to an MLS Cup. I think both counts are nonsense.
We’ll just have to see who was right on this. I respect the FO for making this move, b/c it was a gamble, but it also shows how badly they want this club to win an MLS Cup this year. I think EJ is going to help us do that. Others think we’re worse off. We’ll see.
by nicktjacob on Feb 20, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm fully confident that Fucito could do exactly what Eddie Johnson did in the EPL
Which was take the field once in a while and get loaned out because he wasn’t effective.
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I'm fully confident that Fucito will never do what Johnson has in MLS.
Fortunately for the Sounders, that’s the league that matters.
by FWBrodie on Feb 20, 2012 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fine
Eddie Johnson had a 2 in 7 success rate in MLS
Great???? What’s that got to do with 2012?
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That's not a fair way to assess his career.
I’d give you 2 for 4 since I think you could say he had arrived with his 12 goal 2004, but to count his developmental teenage seasons is pointless. In 2005 he was injured (toes), so I don’t know what you learn from that either. 2006 was a bad season, yes. However 2007 was a phenomenal recovery, his best yet. Then he transferred.
2 for 7 is just a lazy statistic to throw out there.
by FWBrodie on Feb 20, 2012 7:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ignoring Fucito's injurires = smart
ignoring Johnson’s = lazy
We aren’t that kind of place.
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You are willing to ignore EJ's injuries
and called the statistic lazy to point out.
Considering that both players have significant injury histories it is actually a fair comparison. Fucito had two primary challenges for playing time – injures and having veterans blocking him. Neither were true for 2012.
When on the field Fucito put up numbers at a similar level to EJ (with obvious except of 2007). While some would dismiss the all competitions numbers because it includes Kitsap they would also be throwing away goals against CCL teams that are better than MLS teams, particularly Monterrey.
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The lazy comment
was directed at including EJ’s teenage years before he had developed, not the injury year. To say EJ wasn’t a star at 17 years old in MLS is not relevant at all to this discussion in my opinion because there was a clear progression after his teenage years.
He had multiple years injured
not just one.
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and let's not disregard what he was doing for the USMNT
that entire time either.
Although in fairness he was cut in 2010.
In fact
I think he scored one of his 5 against Gspurning:
Take advantage of the league...
Gspurning said the one of the reasons why he left Greece has because of his economy and htat he hadn’t received some of his wages.
I would be MORE than happy to take these players:
- Jean-Alain Boumsong (Pana)
- Angelos Charisteas (Pana)
- Dimitris Salpigidis (PAOK)
SSFC-Rumors
http://ssfc-rumors.blogspot.com/
RE: How terrible the Greek league is.
The hosts have mentioned it time and time again. I assume you all think Gspurning is not up to snuff as well.
La Vecchia Signora Forever!
A bit of talk
about what EJ needs to do to justify the transfer. What do Neagle and Fucito need to at Montreal to make this seem like a giant mistake?
-Ben R.
Honestly...
I don’t know that it matters what Neagle and Fucito do. For me, it’s more about what EJ does than what Neagle and Fucito could have done.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 19, 2012 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
I'd agree
I also expect Fucito to do better in Montreal which seems to be building a more direct play team than Seattle.
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Plus Fucito probably gets to play more of his natural position in Montreal
Someone else can be the target and he’ll probably make more off ball runs have more of the ball, which might increase his production.
I feel his natural position is a high, slightly wide forward
that runs on balls over the top. He isn’t a great passer and his touch in traffic needs work.
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I am not so sure it is that simple
Both players benefited from playing with outstanding players in Seattle.
They were never double -teamed and were often given space because the defense was focusing on Montero, Fernandez, Rosales, etc. That will not be the case in Montreal.
They also won’t have Rosales, Montero and Alonzo feeding them either.
by Coug1990 on Feb 20, 2012 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow - big statements from Hanauer
He throws out a 10-15 goal expectation and calls EJ one of the best pure finishers the US has produced. Those are some big expectations.
He quotes someone else
And basically everything about this trade screams to me that Hanauer had little to nothing to do with the impetus. Sigi and the technical director whose name I can’t recall but I think it’s Chris both were the ones pushing for this trade.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 20, 2012 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
Adrian very much realizes he will be held responsible for the deal
I don’t know how relevant it is that Sigi and Chris Henderson were the driving forces.
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by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 20, 2012 8:03 AM PST up reply actions
I don't either
but if it busts and people call for Hanauer’s head I’ll just keep that fact in my head.
I met a possum.
by s0merand0mdude on Feb 20, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Well, anyone calling for Hanauer's head as a result of this trade should be outrightly ignored no matter what.
That’s just crazy and short-sighted.
But ultimately, he’s the GM. He is responsible for these decisions, whether Henderson and Sigi were the driving force or not.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I have similar expectations
I think my baseline for success is 10 goals and 5 assists in all competitions (and hopefully more). He has the talent. It’s really a question of fitness and desire on EJ’s part.
wow
j, you were so patient with guys, you are a zen master to sit there and do that
a & d, you are basically sitting there saying you know more than sigi et al, really, you do?
gonna listen to adrian now, sorry to try to listen to someone who knows less than you guys
Club World Cup Champions 2012
I am not required to like every move Adrian and Sigi makes
If you want only positives there are plenty of places for that. The entire weekend I was getting messages from non-Fucito/non-Sounders fans about how this was a bad trade. Not one national writer I converse with thinks it was a good deal.
Nor do I.
Am I willing to be wrong? Of course.
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Not from writers I know or interact with
Jeremiah has since pointed out that a national writer who likes it. Andrew Wiebe, who used to be based out of KC
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Simon Borg likes the deal
saying that no impact players left Seattle. This less than a week after calling Fucito the Jeremy Lin of MLS.
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I"m sorry, but you lost me at "Simon Borg"
by Randy Meeker on Feb 21, 2012 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So even better that he's one of two national writers that like it
the other covered EJ in KC 2007
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The day that this podcast becomes propaganda pundits
for the FO I will shut down my recording operation. I am much happier with passion surrounding players, and honest, heart-felt, and real debate whether or not I agree with conclusions.
We had AH on the show to hear that side of things.
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by dano_seattle on Feb 20, 2012 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
A great question for all fans in the podcast
At what point do you consider the trade a success? We heard Jeremiah’s, Aaron’s, and Dave’s answers (and Adrian’s nuanced non-commital answer); how about everybody else’s take? Can you put a # to success or failure?
My take...
If he scores less than 10 goals, I’ll be disappointed. Anything above 10, and I think you have to consider the trade a success. 15 or more and it’s brilliant.
I keep harking back to the fact that Neagle was expendable with Zak coming back and the emergence of Sivebaek. And to me, Fucito was also expendable. Not as if he consistently dominated in 2011. He had a fine, but inconsistent year. Like Lamar.
by nicktjacob on Feb 20, 2012 1:16 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Right on the EJ goal totals
on fucito, if montreal somehow made it into the playoffs, i bet parke and hurtado would shut him down
i love neagle just like everybody, but three of his five goals last year, were against disheartened columbus side
Club World Cup Champions 2012
by seattle dude on Feb 20, 2012 1:45 AM PST up reply actions
Columbus had the top spot in the East
going into that match. What probably played a role in the Sounders scoring 6 and Neagle’s hat trick was that Columbus was playing guys in roles on the back line they weren’t accustomed to playing. IIRC, Gardner was playing as a CB.
by Randy Meeker on Feb 21, 2012 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
Gardner played his typical left back
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You also have to look at what Montero does
If Fredy is able to score close to 20 goals because EJ is drawing pressure away (due to being a 10+ threat himself), you’d have to consider the acquisition of EJ to be a positive. I think it’s fair to question the value we got for Fucito and Neagle though, as Aaron articulated. I remain unconvinced that we could have gotten much of a better deal to fit our needs with both or either Neagle and Fucito. Their value to the fans I think was more than their value to the team, which was significant. The fact that they were traded for the #1 allocation spot is indicative of their value to the team.
by Randy Meeker on Feb 20, 2012 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Montero had 17 goals last year while injured most of the first third
As I said in episode 39, I expected 20ish plus from Montero already.
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Actually
SoundersFC.com and Wikipedia has him with 18 last year.
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by dano_seattle on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
damn my memory
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Well
I had to look it up so I’ll forgive you this time :)
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by dano_seattle on Feb 20, 2012 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
All while
partnering with guys who do little to take pressure off of him. Teams will respect EJ’s abilities and thusly relieving pressure off of Montero. Fucito and probably even Ochoa can’t do that.
by Adam Waltering on Feb 20, 2012 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
I was referring to his goals scored in league matches
I know you’re partial to all competitions statistics, but I prefer to rely more heavily on league statistics.
by Randy Meeker on Feb 21, 2012 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, scoring against teams better than MLS teams should be thrown out.
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It's statements like this
That indicate a bias. If you include those (you mentioned Monterrey) then you also include Kitsap, etc. and the Open Cup. In all reality only a few of our CCL matches are against superior teams until the knockout stages…most (like the teams from Panama and Guatemala, etc.) are not. And I don’t remember Fucito scoring against Monterrey anyway.
These are such trivial stats to pull to begin with. Oh this guy had a .92 ppm between Feb – June 08 but the other guy had .87 during the same months in 2006! What a difference!
I think if he scores a bunch of goals
that’s great. I also would consider it a success if he scores a handful of goals and allows for Montero to score a bunch of goals. Plus, the trade of F&N opens up one more roster spot for one of the many guys in camp who seem promising.
by Adam Waltering on Feb 20, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
with our balanced attack
12g & 6a sounds right minimum, slotting in as a team player.
Club World Cup Champions 2012
I think we should also consider the +/-
of 2012 goals vs. 2010 goals. Does the midfield produce as many goals as it did last year? Is the total production higher?
by Randy Meeker on Feb 20, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
I figure, rather than breaking it down
I’ll just say I want to see 20 combined goals and primary assists from EJ. And the same, or maybe 25 from Montero. Those are league-only numbers.
I could still be okay with this trade slightly below those numbers, depending on the break down.
by foolsgambit on Feb 20, 2012 5:39 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Alex Morgan
It has been announced that Alex will play in the WPSL elite league this summer.. I assume with WNY flash who is playing in the WPSL while WPS figures their shit out
negativity overblown
The risk of this trade is being way overblown. We have a 1 yr contract with a player who makes $100k/year. The fact people are putting the measure of success for this trade at over/under 10 goals is great. How many $100k strikers in the MLS are expected to net 10 goals? Lamar was expendable and we’d seen enough from Mike to know he was not the #2 striker this team needs.
Probably about 4 100k strikers are expected to get 10 next year
Braun, Cummings, Espindola and Oduro
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EJ tweeked his hammy this weekend...
well there you go
"It was impossible to get a conversation going. Everybody was talking too much" - Yogi Berra
has been widely announced it was not a big deal
you don’t play for a while, these little things happen.
by chrisperry1983 on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Those are some high expectations....10-15 goals....
If you’re asking for 10-15 goals in regular season next year, I believe your expectations may be a bit high.
Go check stats from last year and what you’re asking the Sounders to do is find 2 top 15 goal scorers in the league. How many other teams does this happen on? 10 goals = Top 15 last year, 15 goals = Top 3 (Henry had 14 and was 3rd last year). Only 2 teams had 2 players with 10+ goals last year, DC and RSL…Of each of DC’s (Davies and DeRo, 4 goals were on PKs)…each of RSLs only had 10-11 goals.
If it’s in all competitions, maybe….but that’s still asking a lot out of a player that isn’t going to get every minute of every game (I fully believe Ochoa will be competing and taking some time in other competitions from EJ).
All competitions
and Fredy had 18 goals in all-comp last season.
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by dano_seattle on Feb 20, 2012 3:44 PM PST up reply actions
Not to mention
as Dave said above, that was with him being injured in the first third of the season.
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by dano_seattle on Feb 20, 2012 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
take bets on how many goals EJ will score?
sounds like an interesting fundraiser S@H could do….
we could donate it to the ECS tifo fund!
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 20, 2012 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
One thing I've been thinking about and am kicking myself for not better articulating during the show:
When I talk about “information that the front office has that we do not” I should have been clearer in pointing out that developments to his skillset would be included in that. People that have watched Eddie Johnson play have a decent idea of what he’s capable; perhaps during their scouting of him, the team picked up on something new that he hadn’t shown himself capable of doing before. Perhaps he’s gotten more skillful on the ball, or his vision and/or positioning has improved.
If Eddie Johnson the Sounder is a different player than the somewhat one-dimensional striker that we’ve seen in the past, that clearly changes things. I’m skeptical, because players don’t tend to make jumps like that at this point in their career, but it’s certainly been known to happen. And if it has in this case, it could definitely away my opinion of the trade.
Well,
considering that the team has been following/pursuing EJ for longer than the past week, I’d say they basically know what they’re getting. Even if it’s just old “one-dimensional” EJ I still think that’s an upgrade over “one-dimensional” Fucito.
I know people have compared this to the signing of Rosales last year. While I don’t think using that comparison is fair to Rosales there are parallels. You can’t say that Rosales’ situation is the exception to the rule when EJ’s situation is very similar (although with more loans and bench warming). You say most players don’t tend to make jumps like this at this point in their career, well what about Mauro? Unless you’re including Mauro’s age as a deciding factor. Johnson would probably be in Greece right now if it weren’t for their financial problems (I know, Greece what a horrible league).
by Adam Waltering on Feb 20, 2012 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just talking about how I view and evaluate the trade.
And Mauro didn’t change his skillset so far as I know; he was already pretty damned good when he got here.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Right,
but even if Johnson’s skillset hasn’t changed one bit, is that so bad? (I doubt this is the case).
by Adam Waltering on Feb 20, 2012 4:53 PM PST up reply actions
In the context of this trade?
I think I’ve been pretty clear in my assertion that is is, yes.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 4:55 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think this trade
was about adding a star striker. This trade was about freeing up Montero as much as it was about adding a better striker.
by Adam Waltering on Feb 20, 2012 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
If Eddie Johnson the Sounder is a different player than the somewhat one-dimensional striker that we’ve seen in the past, that clearly changes things. I’m skeptical, because players don’t tend to make jumps like that at this point in their career
Players aren’t known to make jumps after their age 23 seasons? Or were you watching Johnson closely in Europe?
So when did you stop watching Johnson?
For clarity’s sake when is the window in which he has been out of your assessing eye?
I saw him a few times last season, both with Fulham and PNE.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Poacher-y
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but what’s the point of this subthread? Was my initial point not clear? (That’s a genuine question by the way, not rhetorical snark.)
If Eddie Johnson is the same player I saw last season, I think the Sounders overpaid. If he has added something as of yet unseen that makes him a more dynamic player, that counts as information that I didn’t have before and potentially changes the way I view this deal.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
The point is because I wasn't sure what you were saying
I wanted further clarification, but since you only gave me one detail at a time I kept asking. Wanted to know if your assessment had any merit to it, and I wanted to see if you were speaking out of emotion or actual observation-based opinion. (genuine answer)
I was not all that emotionally attached to Fucito or Neagle.
I genuinely think this was a bad deal from an analytical standpoint.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
Would you consider being effective in the air
(finishing crosses) a part of that one dimension? I think that is one of the most exciting parts about the addition of EJ, a target for Rosales in front of the goal. That was something OBW brought to the table, but Fucitio did not IMO. Something that is needed to get the most out of one of the Sounders’ strengths, their wings and especially Rosales.
by FWBrodie on Feb 20, 2012 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, I never saw him score a goal that way last season but it has certainly been a part of his game in the past
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
That's because he didn't score last season
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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From Sigi's statements (and Adrian's on the podcast and Chris Henderson's in various places)
I think it’s pretty clear the Sounders do believe that. I don’t think the FO would needlessly overhype any player beyond what he is capable of providing and given the relatively specific statements they’ve made about him (a clinical finisher, one of the best the US has produced; can provide solid hold-up play in support of another forward, for example) I have to think that the FO pretty clearly believes that EJ brings more skill than previously indicated. I’ll admit to not having more than vague impressions of EJ from his time with teh USMNT previous to this trade, but none of those skills were things I would have thought he’d provide and clearly the FO seems pretty assured of these, even after seeing him train/working with him a bit in FL.
Basically, my point is that I think the FO does believe he’s improved. Whether they’re right or not, time will tell, I guess.
And they may well be right.
If they are, I will happily admit that I am wrong.
by Aaron Campeau on Feb 20, 2012 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
I'll go so far as to say
I hope I’m wrong
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People are doubting that
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the doubt
is cause you tend to come off a bit prickly, argumentative, and close minded when it comes to your chosen one. But i dont think theres anyone that really hopes you are right, thats just sillytalk
by Realio on Feb 20, 2012 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Argumentitive certainly
close minded? That’s absurd.
I am not a Supporter | I am not a Fan | I am a Sounder
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Help finding analysis of Eddie Johnson ?
I know, “just google it!,” but I was looking around for some good articles about Eddie Johnson and his recent playing experience and I couldn’t find anything like what I was looking for. anybody come across something comprehensive /interesting I should see? Ideally (and i realize this is a BIG ideally), it would include
-player bio & background
-detailed timeline of his playing experience / minutes played / circumstances over transfer / why he left the teams he did (more than just an appearances / goals scored table, which doesn’t really tell me much)
-how much are sounders paying him and how long is the contract?
-as many as are available…video clips of him playing
Basically, I want to hear what someone other than the sounders, sounders fans, montreal, or montreal fans or either of the media in those cities think about this deal.
pre-emptive answer: I’d like more than what is offered here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Johnson_(American_soccer)
this is a good start
Editor/writer at Sounder at Heart, MLS editor SB Nation. Follow me on Twitter. You'll Never Yacht Alone.
by Jeremiah Oshan on Feb 21, 2012 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
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